BioShock PS3 install takes 10 minutes, 4.98GB

Blu ray has slower read times than DVD, so an install is often needed so that load times aren't painfully long. On the bright side, the install tends to speed up the loads to be slighty faster than the 360 version, when it comes to multiplat games. It's not a major improvement though (usually saving only a second or two on each load screen).

Personally, I wish more games would go the Uncharted route, which has no install AND no loading (except for when you first load up your save game).

Blu-ray. Its they way it reads the disc. But hey they can fill it up with all kinds of crap like uncompressed audio, YAY.

I'm copy/pasting an article I found on MTV multiplayer a while ago regarding this subject.

"...and found that the problem isn't really in the speed of the Blu-Ray format, as some have suggested, but rather in how it differs from DVD. "By nature, the outer and inner parts of a disc move at different speeds while a disc is spinning," former 1UP news editor Patrick Klepek explains. "While DVD drives can read data at those differing speeds, Blu-ray reads at one speed. Combine that with the extremely large size of Blu-ray discs, and simply dumping existing DVD data onto a Blu-ray disc will inevitably result in longer load times." So basically, developers are used to DVD encoding, and some aren't making the extra effort to optimize it for Blu-ray.

This would result in slow load times, except that developers have started taking up mandatory installs to dump some of the data onto the hard drive. The report does note that several multiplatform games such as the recently released Dark Sector don't have installs but are equal on both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, so the developers have found workarounds to optimize for Blu-ray in some cases. Others, like Unreal Tournament III give players the option of installing. So clearly, choices exist for developers to avoid the mandatory install; it just may take a while for all of them to adopt the techniques."

It does not "need" to do it, PS3 has a standard HDD, and developers use it to make better games.

Ignore the idiots that claim it's because the drive is slow, the reality is the PS3's BD is faster than the 360s DVD drive.

http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/dvdvsbr.gif.jpg

@ DigDug

...but the catch is that it has to process more data which slows it down.

Still thanks for posting this as I wasn't 100% sure about it either.

As an add-on to Ian question. What happens when you have a 20GB PS3 and already installed a bunch of games.
If you hard drive is full, will it simply refuse to play the game at all?

Just to make matters worse, the ps3 has a very low amount of memory. So it can't just read all of the game at one time and just ignore loading altogether.

Blu-ray is slower than DVD in X360
http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11404

BRx2 is ~ 6.5 DVD speed.

But the most important:
Bluray has VERY SLOW access time

DVD ~110ms
2xBlu-ray >350ms

In bvefore SonyDefenceForce:

The DVD in X360 reads DL DVD at 12x speed.

It is 16xDVD DRIVE capable of reading SL at 16x and DL at 12x with firmware lock down 12x to keep noise down.

@anonim1979

I've always read that the 360 DVD is 12X and read DL at 8X.

@Obie

That is correct, I installed Linux on my 60GB leaving 20GB on my PS3 partition thinking that would be plenty, I moved a few movies onto it and eventually decided to try out some Oblivion, truth be told I didn't even know it had a install process I've played it before but I formatted for the partitioning, when I went to play it again it gave me an insufficiant HDD space error and closed.

so I switched to 20GB Linux and 40GB PS3. long lesson to learn. installing linux wasn't a quick and easy process. (launch time of YDL)

It is SDF for you...
Anyway there are firmwares with 16x unlocked.

BTW.
EVERY game discs on X360 is DualLayer - no matter how game size is.

Additionally, the game is already written for DVD and the 360. The graphics loading is specifically optimized for DVD reads of a certain speed. They could re-optimize the game for Blu-ray reads and cut down the HD install to a much smaller size -- with only a few of the most critical files on the HD and the rest on Blu-ray.

Instead, they just throw a bunch of extra data on the HD. It saves them a significant amount of developer, artist, and QA time.

Essentially, it's "the easy way out". I'd do it too if I were porting a game that's already been released.

"BTW.
EVERY game discs on X360 is DualLayer - no matter how game size is."

Yes, but it reads the second layer at 8X. I'm pretty sure that's correct. You're the only person I've ever seen claim otherwise and, no offense, you're information is clearly biased and quite often misleading and/or wrong. And the 16x doesn't matter if it's locked down. Hacked firmwares really don't have any place in this discussion.

@Vidikron.

Actualy firmwares have everything with discussion.

Anyway Your 8x info is FUD directly from SDF, when 12x is HARD facts from people who knows what they are doing/working with:

"C4eva has released new hacked firmwares for the BenQ Xbox360 dvd drive. iXtreme BenQ v1.1 rev 2 and a regular Xtreme version. Beware of using the Xtreme FW online without properly stealth patched games or you will get banned. With the ixtreme Rev2 you have the option to choose a custom drive read speed. Most people use fast 12X because its fast loading(12X is the default speed for unmodded drives) and sound levels stay the same. The 8X setting is also nice if your drive is too loud for you or your having trouble reading dvd+r dl verbatim media. Special thanks goes to C4eva."

http://www.teamxmods.com/new-benq-ixtreme-fw-now-all-360s-are-moddable/

Show me where it's FUD then. You're the only person I'ver ever seen claim that the 360 can read the second layer at 12x. Also, yes, hacked firmware ARE pointless to the discussion. Trying to use hacked firmware to make your point is like trying to use claim that games are free if you use hacked firmware in a discussion about game prices. It has no place in the discussion because only a tiny fraction of the user base will ever use it.

Load times are slow, but that's what pre-caching is for. Why not install the game into a temp folder while you are playing it, and relieve the temp files when the hard drive runs out of space?

That's what Ratchet and Clank does, and it does it very, very well. Load times are very fast, and the initial installation is very small and quick.

Some developers are just too used to the PC way of doing things, like all those early 360 games that had FRAME TEARING. Good God...

Good god.

Unmodified drivers reads at 12x BOTH layers.

The DVD in X360 doesn't spin up/spin down for a few seconds every time from simply refocussing laser from first layer to the second!
The both layers are read at the same speed.
12x for DL in normal X360.

The DVD drivers in X360 are 16x ones - capable of reading SL discs at 16x and DL disc at 12x.
There is, Microsoft put, firmware lock to SL discs to 12x.

Firmwares with locks / Modified firmwares simply allow you to lock drive to 8/5/4/2x to slow it down to reduce noise/drive wear.
Or unlock 16x for single layer disc - mostly usseless as all X360 games are on DL discs.
http://www.360mods.net/Forums/viewtopic/t=6049/highlight=noise.html

If you want to check by yourself
Firmware iXtreme_1.4_All_Versions.rar - google, download, check what is inside :)


-----
Anyway I had enough of that stupidity with 8x.

The is FUD spread by Sony fanboys that read official info from MS:
"12xDL 12xSL"
And they thought "but you need normaly 16x SL to have 12x SL! , and DVDs with 12xSL are 8xDL! - so M$ LIES!1!!one!"
What they can't comprehend that there exist such thing as firmware speed locks.

IT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO.

YOU show me some proof - ANY proof - that 8x is anything else than Sonyboys urban myth.

I'm just saying that that's all I've ever seen and your information is HIGHLY biased and often incorrect. For example, all that FUD you posted about the tearing in the PS3 version of Mercs 2... even when the Joystiq screenshot for the comparison video had tearing on the 360 side, but not the PS3 side. All you do every week is spread PS3 FUD, so you'll have to excuse me if I can't take you at your word.

And all you've done here is post an unsourced quote that you're claiming is from MS. So where's that quote from? If you can show me a link that says "DL 12x" then I'll believe you, otherwise I'm going with what has been commonly sated since the system launched.

And, again, those hacked firmwares are interesting and all, but they are pointless to the discussion.

*(fixed)
And they thought "but you need normaly 16x SL to have 12x DL! , and DVDs with 12xSL are 8xDL! - so M$ LIES!1!!one!"

Vidikron = pwned!

Thanks for actually BACKING up your words anonim1979, unlike the SDF.

God. If there is anything I hate it's people saying owned. Grow up.

@smoke

What kind of idiot are you? How did I get "pwnd"? He never even posted a link for his information other some firmware hacks which are completely useless to the discussion and I stated all along that I DL 8X is simply the information I've read since the system launched.

You read WHERE?
On sony defence force . com ?
On PS3site forums?

Because oficial MS info and specs clearly states 12xDL
Oficial unmodified firmware is 12xDL
Cracked firmwares are from 12xDL (default) to 8x 5x 4x 2x - for people who wants decrase noise.
And that is HARD fact.

And HOW can you say I didn't give links?
What is it?

"....
Most people use fast 12X because its fast loading(12X is the default speed for unmodded drives) and sound levels stay the same. The 8X setting is also nice if your drive is too loud for you or your having trouble reading dvd+r dl verbatim media. Special thanks goes to C4eva."

http://www.teamxmods.com/new-benq-ixtreme-fw-now-all-360s-are-moddable/

----
As for Mercs 2 are you BLIND?
Do you need red circles on jpg's to see screen tearing?

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/anonim1979/ps3-1205.jpg

Due duration of ENTIRE movie PS3 version in uper part of screen tear frames.

And in normal frames too
i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/anonim1979/ps3-0368.jpg
i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/anonim1979/ps3-0367.jpg
i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/anonim1979/ps3-0366.jpg
etc.

Nearly every 2nd frame is torn.
It's realy easy to see. You only have to take off rose colored Sony glasses.

Anyway it is pathetic when Sony fanboys can't even admit obvious shortcomings of their chosen system.
Probably here you will also chose not to see "tru next gen grass and AA" on PS3 LOL

http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/6/1/0/7/8/Euro9.jpg.jpg

ninga guiden sigma has the best options.
you either install to the HDD to save load times.
or you dont and have longer load screens.
giving the option to the player is the best option yet.
you can start gaming when you buy the game, and you could later install the files when your not in a rush to play the game, or whatever....

yes without installing these files the ps3 would load things slower than the 360, however by installing the files the ps3 can load the games quicker.

dig dug:
why are you always wrong?
u might want to learn something before you act like you know something.

u have to be one of the smartest idiots i have ever seen on a forum...

I agree. It is funny how consoles are becoming more glorified PCs every generation. Hopefully the next generation will make installs standard across all consoles and faster; like under 5 minutes.

Ugh I do NOT want to have to deal with installs at all for consoles in general, thats why I bought a console to begin with.

Would you kindly not talk? No one likes waiting to play a game.

It is frustrating when your excited to play a new game and then you pop it in then it says "please wait while we install your game". 10 minutes isnt terrible, MGS was nice that they did several short ones. Enouph time to grab a drink or drop a deuce.

I agree with the OP. I love installs because I wait less during the loading time.

Which is better, waiting ten minutes once where you can GO AND DO SOMETHING ELSE, or sitting for 5 seconds 120 times while you're captive at your TV waiting and staring at a spinning icon?

Even with installation, MGS4 still takes forever during to load each map.

Actually I don't mind 5 minute installs. But the catch is that if we let them do it, then it will slowly extend onto the 30 minute installs that some PC Games are not approaching!

"I agree with the OP. I love installs because I wait less during the loading time.

Which is better, waiting ten minutes once where you can GO AND DO SOMETHING ELSE, or sitting for 5 seconds 120 times while you're captive at your TV waiting and staring at a spinning icon?"

While that may be true, the sad thing is that it only brings load times up to par with other systems. The fault, of course, falls to devs being too flighty with the extra space BD provides without considering the slow manner (relatively) in which it provides it. Better balance often needs to be struck. That's why people are upset/disappointed.

PC owner here. Spore took 30 fucking minutes to install from a single DVD. Thanks SecuROM.

Sorry console gamers, but optical media can only go so fast. At least you can install Bioshock more than 3 times.

It's only ten minutes people. Really not that big a deal. It's obvious that mandatory and optional installs are becoming the standard for ps3 and no amount of complaining is going to change that. It's been like this for a while. I honestly thought we would all be used to and over this type of thing. Guess not.

I agree, 10 minutes is only a big deal to WHINERS. However, what the F are you talking about 'fairly cheap'? Are you on crack?

@tiptup

the ps3 has the same amount of memory as the 360. 256MB video RAM + 256MB system RAM. However, both of them can share with the other meaning 512MB for either system (minus what the OS needs). I don't know if (and somewhat doubt that) its as efficient the 360

i don't mind the wait one bit. i just hate the massive space installs take up on my limited 60gb PS3. i only have 28gb left (i have sizeable installs for Assassin's Creed, Oblivion, MGS4 and GTA IV), and now i'm really feeling the pressure to upgrade my hdd. granted, it's not expensive or hard to upgrade, still, that $100 can almost clear away my Gears of War 2 and LBP reservations.

@Markez

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=380&name=Laptop-Hard-Drives

Here you go. 120GB for $60, or 320GB for $110 on the first two lines. If you dug around you'd probably find even better deals.

10 minutes is not the problem, it's the HD space it takes up. I can't believe you guys have no problem with the $100 extra it costs to increase the HD size in a PS3, like it's no problem. WTF? Are you not offended that just about every PS3 game requires an install now?

Agreed - heck, it's only ten minutes.

Also makes me want to go back and play through this one. Great game, although slightly slow at the end.


Todd

Agreed - heck, it's only ten minutes.

Also makes me want to go back and play through this one. Great game, although slightly slow at the end.

Very true the 360 had tons of glitches and loading time isues the PS3 read speed dose not dofor streaming on the fly well for high bandwidth games.

The read speed is the reason why they have to install games, the PS3 has been evolving well perhaps they will have a better stream/data buffering/cacheing setup later..

At least its not messed up like most 360s stuff, I really wish MS would get on the ball and fix it and create better ways for devs to down port to it.

get back to /b/

Gurren Lagann is awesome.