Rare: Avatar development started pre-Mii

by Alexander Sliwinski { Sep 11th 2008 at 4:00PM }

Rare, developer of Microsoft's Avatars, explains that any similarity between its creations and Nintendo's Miis is purely coincidental. In an interview with Eurogamer, the company's art director, Lee Musgrave, states that Rare was working with the idea of Avatars (not necessarily for the New Xbox Experience) before Miis were part of the gaming landscape. Microsoft apparently liked the idea enough to make it part of its dashboard overhaul.

Musgrave makes it clear that Microsoft didn't show up one day and ask for a counter to the Mii. He claims there were many questions about what form the Avatars should take (animals, Spore-like creatures, ultra-realistic humans), but they eventually landed on something that had "approachability." Apparently, Nintendo agrees.

Tags: avatars, microsoft, new-xbox-experience, rare

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Tez (PSN: Tezasaurus) @ Sep 11th 2008 4:03PM

Right. And Sony was working on the six-axis long before the Wii remote was announced.

Marty @ Sep 11th 2008 4:22PM

He's got no reason to lie, does he?

I think it's perfectly plausible that they were working on avatars before Mii's came around. Especially since he admits they weren't necessarily part of the 360's future UI plans in their inception.

Clearly, Mii's have influenced the avatars' design... but hey, they had the time to watch what Nintendo did and learn from it, so why not?

Jakka(Free Mr.ESC!) @ Sep 11th 2008 4:25PM

Before any Sony Fanboy decides to point out the 1999 Patent, bear in mind that patent =/= actual work.

In these days Companies patent themselves just in case some son of a bitch decides to sue them twenty years later.

Drew @ Sep 11th 2008 5:55PM

I don't think where it came from should be an issue.

More importantly, they spent THAT long on it, and THIS is what they came up with?

JCA @ Sep 11th 2008 6:06PM

Exactly. Just because it was in development before the release of the Wii (and thus the Mii) doesn't mean Microsoft didn't know about their existence within Nintendo. Corporate espionage is a real entity.

Even if there was no espionage and the concept of avatars is coincidental...the end design seems very Mii inspired.

Sheppy (of the Fidlious Clan of Wong) @ Sep 11th 2008 6:45PM

1. Everyone forgets PSP had a tilt detecting dongle long before Wii was anything more than "Revolution."

2. The way Rare describes it is such a dumb fuck vagueness. "Der, you create a custom character that you can identify with and even use in multiple games perhaps. So we thought of character creation." ...k, I was doing that shit on N64 wrestling games...

DarkTetsuya @ Sep 11th 2008 9:08PM

Exactly what I was thinking ... do they *really* expect us to believe that something that's so similar to something already out there, coming out second, was actually in development first?

Guess they should've released it sooner, in both counts.

Anthony @ Sep 11th 2008 10:20PM

Ya. Rare came up with it before they saw the Mii - And promptly told them they would never use it. Well at least until they realized what kind of response Nintendo was getting.

Immortal Technique PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Sep 11th 2008 11:09PM

Marty - valiant defender of all things Microsoft. Give it a rest, would ya?

Tiptup300 @ Sep 11th 2008 11:32PM

Actually, if you were following the 360 very closely before launch they mentioned having characters who you customize with tshirts.

fwacce @ Sep 11th 2008 4:05PM

Uh huh.

Erik Stroud @ Sep 11th 2008 4:49PM

I believe him. I mean, it's not like there is reason to steal it. Nintendo may have done it first, but it was to attract old people and kids.

Delgado @ Sep 11th 2008 7:43PM

Sorry, I couldn't read the wonderful addition you made to this story. I'm not sure why such insightful commentary is so white, fuzzy and unreadable.

wes @ Sep 11th 2008 4:05PM

Yeah right...And Sony had motion controls before nintendo too right?

Companies always say this to make themselfs feel better.

wes @ Sep 11th 2008 4:09PM

Woah... Ninja'd

Markez @ Sep 11th 2008 4:05PM

This really is not a big deal. I believe what they say in that the similarity is 'purely coincidental'.

Reason being, it's really not an amazing or revolutionary idea or anything, cmon, it's just not.

Mike @ Sep 11th 2008 4:24PM

but it is a relatively new idea to bring avatars like these to a console - in fact Ninty was the first to do it. I find it very hard to believe that MS was pounding away at this idea before Nintendo, and still managed to come out w/ it almost two years after Nintendo did.

Ocho @ Sep 11th 2008 4:42PM

I have to disagree, Mike. The notion of personalized characters, even on a console, is not entirely unique or original. Does Microsoft get the credit for letting people have unique online handles (aka GamerTags)? Of course not.

It's all in how well an idea is executed that makes it noteworthy. It looks like Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony all have their own interpretations of this avatar idea, though no one is a direct copy of another.

Duke @ Sep 11th 2008 4:06PM

I have trouble believing them on this one. Anyway, I think the spore-like creature idea would have been much more fun and a lot less creepy.

Shagittarius @ Sep 11th 2008 4:14PM

Unless you can put a giant cock and balls on these avatars as well!

Mike @ Sep 11th 2008 4:25PM

If you can make a cock out of a Mii, you can make a cock out of anything!!

Viva la Penis!!

Courtney @ Sep 11th 2008 5:44PM

Actually, there is an interesting idea there. What if there was an option to turn on, where your avatar was shaped by the kinds of games you played (or the achievements you got). Say, certain appendages or gear was only available to the players of specific games or those who had earned specific achievements.

If there were some cool options, it might give people another incentive to try games out of their normal sphere or go for achievements. It could also result in some really wacked out avatars. Which I'm all in favor of.

Of course, seems like a bear to implement, but that's not my problem.

Vidikron (FU) @ Sep 11th 2008 4:06PM

Honestly, I don't care. Worrying about who thought about what first is pointless fanboy fodder.

juju187 @ Sep 11th 2008 4:40PM

without pointless fanboy fodder joystiq would cease to exist...

Conor @ Sep 11th 2008 5:54PM

cease to exist given my goodbyes..

Mr Khan @ Sep 11th 2008 4:09PM

Miis were an idea that Shiggy was toying with since back in the NES days, but thats not relevant here

I could see Rare coming up with this idea on their own, since they're always on with some strange ideas of their own. The mii-like way they're being integrated into the New Xbox Xperience, however, certainly seems like the sincerest form of flattery, however.

Easo @ Sep 12th 2008 2:01PM

Mii arent intergrated into the wii expirence. They only show up in Nintendo made games starring mii's (wii sports, wii play, wii music, etc.) Avatars are taking the place of gamer pictures, which are used to identify you in everything you do on xbox live and across every game.

Keep in mind,that I think avatars are stupid and dont fit in with MS user base or image. Now if avatars were munny like characters that could be customised with content from the games you own (gears armor, halo weapons, etc.) that would be cool.
http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Games/G/Grand%20Theft%20Auto%20IV/Everything%20Else/Niko%20munny/2443653069_c13ba8c1da_o--article_image.jpg

Dave @ Sep 11th 2008 4:10PM

Personally, I don't care who thought of it first; I just think it's a bad idea. I don't want a cute little character representing me. I want to look like a bad-ass when I'm online. I'm playing Gears--not Viva Pinata. I think they're alienating a lot of gamers with this move.

Kristof @ Sep 11th 2008 4:20PM

Someone's not comfortable with their spot in life.

What bully kicked sand in your face?

Erluti @ Sep 11th 2008 4:26PM

I think Microsoft's plan is not to put Avatars into your games, but rather, let your game put stuff on your avatars. And then avatars will be used for stuff like the 1 vs 100 game. So instead of having a generic dude for that, you can have a dude that looks like you and is wearing a sweet helmet you unlocked from Fallout 3.

Hala Madrid!! (Madrileno hasta la muerte!) @ Sep 11th 2008 4:26PM

You know that Its optional, right?
You don't have to create one if you don't want to.
So you can be more "Bad-ass" while playing Gears.

Mike @ Sep 11th 2008 4:29PM

Well, the avatars aren't SOOOO cute and sugary that I feel emasculated by the thought of having one represent me online, but I would definitely like for them to be a little more bad ass. Maybe my avatar could be holding a bloody chainsaw, or a ninja sword or something along those lines - I guess what I'm saying is I'll reserve judgment until I see what sort of accessories and such MS offers.

Tez (PSN: Tezasaurus) @ Sep 11th 2008 4:32PM

They're only alienating the insecure ones like yourself.

Duke @ Sep 11th 2008 4:32PM

Lots of us play Gears and VP though. Just an FYI.

Erik Stroud @ Sep 11th 2008 5:01PM

You are one of the people that think if there is no gore, then it sucks.

Dirty @ Sep 11th 2008 5:40PM

Viva P kicks ass. I should chainsaw your ass for even suggesting that its not a great game.

Dave @ Sep 11th 2008 5:57PM

What bully kicked sand in my face? I'm a gamer commenting on a gaming site--lots.

Dave @ Sep 11th 2008 6:03PM

"They're only alienating the insecure ones like yourself."

Meow. I just have an online persona, kitty--I'm not insecure. Part of the reason I play games is to take control of a fictional reality. I play games with characters that appeal to me--and I'd like my avatar to appeal to me as well.

By the way, why did any of you smart-asses bother picking a Joystiq image at all? There's a perfectly good Mario default available.

mewoks @ Sep 11th 2008 4:13PM

I have a feeling that Lee Musgrave's poker face involves a lot of sweating and nervous laughter.

Fenix @ Sep 11th 2008 4:21PM

Why are they even defending themselves? Miis are the goofiest looking things around. Avatars are at least a little more decent with the HOME ones being the best IMO.

Andrew Fong @ Sep 11th 2008 4:25PM

Animals or Spore creatures would have been awesome.

KiraXD @ Sep 11th 2008 4:24PM

ugh this Avatar thing is so ugly... as long as i can keep it just menus.. ill be happy

this looks like garbage compared to home. its not very streamlined and mature like my other console... i want maturity for both consoles not this fisher-price shit.

thats the reason i bought the 2 next gen consoles and not a wii.

Mr Khan @ Sep 11th 2008 4:31PM

You bought a PS4 and an Xbox 720?

Kristof @ Sep 11th 2008 5:00PM

Durr durr durr

I need a video game to tell me how old I am!

Erik Stroud @ Sep 11th 2008 5:02PM

Ok, avatars wont break the console. If you paud attention to earlier things on it, you would know it wont be in t and m rated games.

KiraXD @ Sep 11th 2008 5:11PM

woah woah woah... chill out wii-fanboys... dont start crying over a comment.

i just dont want my menus cluttered with the avatar look... thats all. man.. fanboys really explode dont they? lol.

TFoK (Naked Peach Defense Force) @ Sep 11th 2008 5:38PM

"fanboys really explode dont they? lol."

Funniest part is that, in this reply chain, you're the only one who exploded.

#1 - It's optional
#2 - Usually, the only people who are vocal about their desire for their games and anything representative of their games are kids age 12-16... you wouldn't happen to fall under that age group, would you?
#3 - Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Wii fanboy.