Rare, developer of Microsoft's Avatars, explains that any similarity between its creations and Nintendo's Miis is purely coincidental. In an interview with Eurogamer, the company's art director, Lee Musgrave, states that Rare was working with the idea of Avatars (not necessarily for the New Xbox Experience) before Miis were part of the gaming landscape. Microsoft apparently liked the idea enough to make it part of its dashboard overhaul.
Musgrave makes it clear that Microsoft didn't show up one day and ask for a counter to the Mii. He claims there were many questions about what form the Avatars should take (animals, Spore-like creatures, ultra-realistic humans), but they eventually landed on something that had "approachability." Apparently, Nintendo agrees.
Reader Comments (80)
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:22PM FredFredrickson said
He's got no reason to lie, does he?
I think it's perfectly plausible that they were working on avatars before Mii's came around. Especially since he admits they weren't necessarily part of the 360's future UI plans in their inception.
Clearly, Mii's have influenced the avatars' design... but hey, they had the time to watch what Nintendo did and learn from it, so why not?
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I think it's perfectly plausible that they were working on avatars before Mii's came around. Especially since he admits they weren't necessarily part of the 360's future UI plans in their inception.
Clearly, Mii's have influenced the avatars' design... but hey, they had the time to watch what Nintendo did and learn from it, so why not?
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:25PM (Unverified) said
Before any Sony Fanboy decides to point out the 1999 Patent, bear in mind that patent =/= actual work.
In these days Companies patent themselves just in case some son of a bitch decides to sue them twenty years later.
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In these days Companies patent themselves just in case some son of a bitch decides to sue them twenty years later.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 5:55PM (Unverified) said
I don't think where it came from should be an issue.
More importantly, they spent THAT long on it, and THIS is what they came up with?
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More importantly, they spent THAT long on it, and THIS is what they came up with?
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 6:06PM JCA said
Exactly. Just because it was in development before the release of the Wii (and thus the Mii) doesn't mean Microsoft didn't know about their existence within Nintendo. Corporate espionage is a real entity.
Even if there was no espionage and the concept of avatars is coincidental...the end design seems very Mii inspired.
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Even if there was no espionage and the concept of avatars is coincidental...the end design seems very Mii inspired.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 6:45PM SheppyReturns said
1. Everyone forgets PSP had a tilt detecting dongle long before Wii was anything more than "Revolution."
2. The way Rare describes it is such a dumb fuck vagueness. "Der, you create a custom character that you can identify with and even use in multiple games perhaps. So we thought of character creation." ...k, I was doing that shit on N64 wrestling games...
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2. The way Rare describes it is such a dumb fuck vagueness. "Der, you create a custom character that you can identify with and even use in multiple games perhaps. So we thought of character creation." ...k, I was doing that shit on N64 wrestling games...
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 9:08PM DarkTetsuya said
Exactly what I was thinking ... do they *really* expect us to believe that something that's so similar to something already out there, coming out second, was actually in development first?
Guess they should've released it sooner, in both counts.
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Guess they should've released it sooner, in both counts.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 11:09PM (Unverified) said
Marty - valiant defender of all things Microsoft. Give it a rest, would ya?
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:05PM loflyinjett said
Yeah right...And Sony had motion controls before nintendo too right?
Companies always say this to make themselfs feel better.
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Companies always say this to make themselfs feel better.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:24PM whatthegeek said
but it is a relatively new idea to bring avatars like these to a console - in fact Ninty was the first to do it. I find it very hard to believe that MS was pounding away at this idea before Nintendo, and still managed to come out w/ it almost two years after Nintendo did.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:42PM (Unverified) said
I have to disagree, Mike. The notion of personalized characters, even on a console, is not entirely unique or original. Does Microsoft get the credit for letting people have unique online handles (aka GamerTags)? Of course not.
It's all in how well an idea is executed that makes it noteworthy. It looks like Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony all have their own interpretations of this avatar idea, though no one is a direct copy of another.
Reply
It's all in how well an idea is executed that makes it noteworthy. It looks like Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony all have their own interpretations of this avatar idea, though no one is a direct copy of another.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:14PM Shagittarius said
Unless you can put a giant cock and balls on these avatars as well!
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:25PM whatthegeek said
If you can make a cock out of a Mii, you can make a cock out of anything!!
Viva la Penis!!
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Viva la Penis!!
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 5:44PM Courtney said
Actually, there is an interesting idea there. What if there was an option to turn on, where your avatar was shaped by the kinds of games you played (or the achievements you got). Say, certain appendages or gear was only available to the players of specific games or those who had earned specific achievements.
If there were some cool options, it might give people another incentive to try games out of their normal sphere or go for achievements. It could also result in some really wacked out avatars. Which I'm all in favor of.
Of course, seems like a bear to implement, but that's not my problem.
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If there were some cool options, it might give people another incentive to try games out of their normal sphere or go for achievements. It could also result in some really wacked out avatars. Which I'm all in favor of.
Of course, seems like a bear to implement, but that's not my problem.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:09PM Mr Khan said
Miis were an idea that Shiggy was toying with since back in the NES days, but thats not relevant here
I could see Rare coming up with this idea on their own, since they're always on with some strange ideas of their own. The mii-like way they're being integrated into the New Xbox Xperience, however, certainly seems like the sincerest form of flattery, however.
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I could see Rare coming up with this idea on their own, since they're always on with some strange ideas of their own. The mii-like way they're being integrated into the New Xbox Xperience, however, certainly seems like the sincerest form of flattery, however.
Posted: Sep 12th 2008 2:01PM easo said
Mii arent intergrated into the wii expirence. They only show up in Nintendo made games starring mii's (wii sports, wii play, wii music, etc.) Avatars are taking the place of gamer pictures, which are used to identify you in everything you do on xbox live and across every game.
Keep in mind,that I think avatars are stupid and dont fit in with MS user base or image. Now if avatars were munny like characters that could be customised with content from the games you own (gears armor, halo weapons, etc.) that would be cool.
http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Games/G/Grand%20Theft%20Auto%20IV/Everything%20Else/Niko%20munny/2443653069_c13ba8c1da_o--article_image.jpg
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Keep in mind,that I think avatars are stupid and dont fit in with MS user base or image. Now if avatars were munny like characters that could be customised with content from the games you own (gears armor, halo weapons, etc.) that would be cool.
http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Games/G/Grand%20Theft%20Auto%20IV/Everything%20Else/Niko%20munny/2443653069_c13ba8c1da_o--article_image.jpg
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:10PM (Unverified) said
Personally, I don't care who thought of it first; I just think it's a bad idea. I don't want a cute little character representing me. I want to look like a bad-ass when I'm online. I'm playing Gears--not Viva Pinata. I think they're alienating a lot of gamers with this move.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:20PM (Unverified) said
Someone's not comfortable with their spot in life.
What bully kicked sand in your face?
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What bully kicked sand in your face?
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:26PM Erluti said
I think Microsoft's plan is not to put Avatars into your games, but rather, let your game put stuff on your avatars. And then avatars will be used for stuff like the 1 vs 100 game. So instead of having a generic dude for that, you can have a dude that looks like you and is wearing a sweet helmet you unlocked from Fallout 3.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:26PM (Unverified) said
You know that Its optional, right?
You don't have to create one if you don't want to.
So you can be more "Bad-ass" while playing Gears.
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You don't have to create one if you don't want to.
So you can be more "Bad-ass" while playing Gears.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:29PM whatthegeek said
Well, the avatars aren't SOOOO cute and sugary that I feel emasculated by the thought of having one represent me online, but I would definitely like for them to be a little more bad ass. Maybe my avatar could be holding a bloody chainsaw, or a ninja sword or something along those lines - I guess what I'm saying is I'll reserve judgment until I see what sort of accessories and such MS offers.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 5:57PM (Unverified) said
What bully kicked sand in my face? I'm a gamer commenting on a gaming site--lots.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 6:03PM (Unverified) said
"They're only alienating the insecure ones like yourself."
Meow. I just have an online persona, kitty--I'm not insecure. Part of the reason I play games is to take control of a fictional reality. I play games with characters that appeal to me--and I'd like my avatar to appeal to me as well.
By the way, why did any of you smart-asses bother picking a Joystiq image at all? There's a perfectly good Mario default available.
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Meow. I just have an online persona, kitty--I'm not insecure. Part of the reason I play games is to take control of a fictional reality. I play games with characters that appeal to me--and I'd like my avatar to appeal to me as well.
By the way, why did any of you smart-asses bother picking a Joystiq image at all? There's a perfectly good Mario default available.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:13PM (Unverified) said
I have a feeling that Lee Musgrave's poker face involves a lot of sweating and nervous laughter.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:21PM (Unverified) said
Why are they even defending themselves? Miis are the goofiest looking things around. Avatars are at least a little more decent with the HOME ones being the best IMO.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:24PM KiraXD said
ugh this Avatar thing is so ugly... as long as i can keep it just menus.. ill be happy
this looks like garbage compared to home. its not very streamlined and mature like my other console... i want maturity for both consoles not this fisher-price shit.
thats the reason i bought the 2 next gen consoles and not a wii.
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this looks like garbage compared to home. its not very streamlined and mature like my other console... i want maturity for both consoles not this fisher-price shit.
thats the reason i bought the 2 next gen consoles and not a wii.
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 5:00PM (Unverified) said
Durr durr durr
I need a video game to tell me how old I am!
Reply
I need a video game to tell me how old I am!
Posted: Sep 11th 2008 5:38PM (Unverified) said
"fanboys really explode dont they? lol."
Funniest part is that, in this reply chain, you're the only one who exploded.
#1 - It's optional
#2 - Usually, the only people who are vocal about their desire for their games and anything representative of their games are kids age 12-16... you wouldn't happen to fall under that age group, would you?
#3 - Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Wii fanboy.
Reply
Funniest part is that, in this reply chain, you're the only one who exploded.
#1 - It's optional
#2 - Usually, the only people who are vocal about their desire for their games and anything representative of their games are kids age 12-16... you wouldn't happen to fall under that age group, would you?
#3 - Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Wii fanboy.
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