id: No content cuts made to Rage for 360's sake [update]
Update: Tim Willits has denied earlier reports that content would be trimmed from all versions of id Software's upcoming Rage due to the Xbox 360's more limited storage capabilities. In a statement issued to Shacknews, Willits said, "There was NO CONTENT removed from RAGE because of the 360--NONE AT ALL."
In response to his discussion of limiting the game to two explorable wastelands, as opposed to more, Willits said the decision was best for all versions of the game and would eliminate loading. "Moving from multiple wastelands into fewer but larger wastelands was a far better decision and is actually giving us more gameplay in the game. We feel the 360 is a great platform and will provide a fantastic Rage experience."
The original story can be found after the break.
In response to his discussion of limiting the game to two explorable wastelands, as opposed to more, Willits said the decision was best for all versions of the game and would eliminate loading. "Moving from multiple wastelands into fewer but larger wastelands was a far better decision and is actually giving us more gameplay in the game. We feel the 360 is a great platform and will provide a fantastic Rage experience."
The original story can be found after the break.
Original story:
During the Austin Game Developers Conference (via 1UP), id Software's lead designer Tim Willits admitted that the developer cut back on content it would have included in Rage, due to the Xbox 360's 6-8GB per disc limit. Willits explained that while the PC has "limitless" space and the PS3 has about 25GB, id is "hoping [it] can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."
He went on to note that the game was originally going to feature several wastelands, but the limitations of the Xbox 360 required the developer to cut them down to two. These changes were made for all versions of the game. id's John Carmack had previously stated that the game might be a "little blurry" in parts for the Xbox 360.
It's certainly interesting that the Xbox 360 determined the concessions other platforms would need to make in this circumstance.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
tidefan94 @ Sep 16th 2008 9:04PM
I can't wait until all the PS3/Wii/PC fanboys come in here bashing the 360
zuburi @ Sep 16th 2008 9:23PM
Saying you can't wait until they do it is almost as bad as doing it yourself. It's just like the "in before x!" comments - you're practically encouraging it.
If you're gonna troll, man up and don't do a half-assed job.
MarkHawk @ Sep 16th 2008 10:28PM
Did tide get a money hat to?
Limezor @ Sep 16th 2008 10:34PM
LET THE FANBOY WARS BEING!!!
Better?
Nirolak @ Sep 17th 2008 12:45AM
Sorry to respond to the first post with this but I thought it was important.
Tim Willits just denied this:
"Willits' unedited response follows:
"During my talk today I mentioned that we originally wanted to have around 5 or 6 smaller wasteland environments but later decided instead to have 2 larger wastelands. Mostly because we were going to be shipping on two DVDs for the 360 and felt that it would play better with one large wasteland on each disc so there would be no loading between wastelands. Not loading levels while you drive around is a much better decision regardless of platform.
There was NO CONTENT removed from RAGE because of the 360--NONE AT ALL. Moving from multiple wastelands into fewer but larger wastelands was a far better decision and is actually giving us more gameplay in the game.
We feel the 360 is a great platform and will provide a fantastic Rage experience.""
Source: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54780
flameofdoom666 @ Sep 16th 2008 9:04PM
I love my 360- but that really sucks that a developer is cutting out of all versions to suit the 360.
Jtenma @ Sep 16th 2008 9:16PM
Indeed I am most disappointed by their decision to do that.
It is funny though that everybody acts like they didn't see this coming though from a mile away. When did you think disc size on the 360 was going to be an issue...NEVER?
Noshino @ Sep 16th 2008 9:19PM
go back to last year and check the comments...you would be surprised at how many actually thought so
flameofdoom666 @ Sep 16th 2008 9:20PM
They should just use the hard drive. 2 discs + a 4 gig DL or something. Make it work without that extra disc!
Brandon @ Sep 16th 2008 9:25PM
That wouldn't be fair to people with the arcade.
Kspraydad @ Sep 16th 2008 9:40PM
Hey Brandon..Fuck the people with the arcade.
T3kNi9e @ Sep 16th 2008 10:18PM
I concur!
But this is why I traded in my Wii for a PS3, because Wii sucks and I know the 360 has it's limitations hardware-wise (including RROD).
BananaBoat @ Sep 16th 2008 10:45PM
Sounds like someone is angry at the 360 for the per-disc royalties. I'm more inclined to believe Carmac and his "The textures you wouldn't normally see will be a little bit blurry" rather than this guys "we're considerably cutting the game because we can't possibly fit it on two dual layer DVD's" (not verbatim)
Let me slice through some of this BS. Remember Crysis? Yeah, well, it's only like 6 gigs, and it's more than the Xbox 360 or the PS3 can run at 720p, period. In trying to say that they have to cut levels out of this game because of the 360, he's essentially saying one of two things: "We refuse to scale back some of the huge pre-rendered cut scenes that are going to be in this game, in exchange for more actual gameplay" or "I have no idea what the hell I am talking about, you is can has console flamewar nao". If you can do Crysis (which is a massive, near photo realistic game) in 6gb, then you damn well can do Rage (which, again, has to run on consoles. Crysis cannot) on two DVD-9's or whatever the 360 uses. The ONLY thing that should need to be scaled back, is CGI Cut Scenes (which take up more space than anything else).
I call shenanigans.
Dartmerc @ Sep 16th 2008 10:53PM
BananaBitch, when was the last time you saw a huge, prerendered cutscene in an id game?
Levi @ Sep 16th 2008 11:57PM
@ Banana -
A lot of current gen games use in-game graphics with scripts for their cutscenes, because the engines are good enough to produce that level of gfx. They might replace the character models with higher poly models for the cutscenes, which I think they might have done in Uncharted, because the system doesn't have all that game code to process behind the graphics.
Though, a big thing that takes up a lot of space now is uncompressed audio, which can trump the size of high res textures. Of all games, Little Big Planet apparently almost fills a Blu-Ray because of all the voice tutorials in different languages for the level editor.
I think I read that LBP thing here.
Oops. XD
Jtenma @ Sep 17th 2008 12:02AM
@ banana
I'm not sure but doesn't Crysis use a lot of the same assets in a lot of the same areas?(Correct me if I'm wrong)
Still though I see what you're saying, even if they do use the same textures (etc), that game looks phenomenal.
xx JPRacer xx @ Sep 17th 2008 12:02AM
Hey BananaBoat, Rage got no CGI, it's all realtime stuff. Rage use the new Tech5 engine with the new megatexture technology. Each "level" is almost 80GB uncompressed, and that's one big texture. I don't think they can compress more without loosing quality.
And the way the CryEngine renders scenes is different, you can't compare them.
Vidikron @ Sep 17th 2008 12:05AM
@Banana
And Crysis is fairly short and basically has two environments: Jungle and Alien Ship. Three if you want to count Jungle w/ Ice on Top. You can't just pick a game like Crysis and claim there's no reason for other games to be over 6 GBs when so many factors determine the size.
BananaBoat @ Sep 17th 2008 12:30AM
I was just using Crysis as an example, but it's just as easy to say that there has never been a game (that I can remember anyway) that comes anywhere close to filling two DVD's. As far as Crysis only being jungle and beach, I realize this, but Rage sounds like it's going to be wasteland...after wasteland...after swamp.
What JPR is saying makes alot of sense, and it does explain why the size of the disc might be an issue, but I don't really get why they'd need to do their textures in a new way when the "old" way (ahem...Crysis) worked just fine. In that case, isn't the problem them and their goofy engine, and not the disc? I mean, hell, I'm the first to admit that Microsoft needs to add Blu-Ray to their next gen system (not however that they should have added it to the 360. Blu-Ray didn't exist in any form when they started planning the 360) but I think it's more of a problem of companies like id creating engines that aren't this-gen friendly that is the problem. Then again, this new engine could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and it could completely make me drink the "You need teh Blu-Rays!" koolaid, but still, how good can you make a washed out grey wasteland look anyway? (I am now prepared for visual and auditory mind rape at the release of Rage)
BananaBoat @ Sep 17th 2008 12:40AM
Take out one of those "problems" from that one sentence, and uhh, you know, just use your in-brain grammar filters.
It's only midnight, but waking up at 6am for class is destroying my typing ability. Why I picked a 7am class in the first place I have no idea, but next semester I'm not taking anything before noon. A man should atleast get to sleep till noon on a weekday...right? Right? Who's with me? After a year and a half of this, I'm not sure how the hell I ever woke up at 5am so that I could catch the 6am bus to my school that started at 7am and lasted till 4-5pm after all after school activities were over. Why am I still typing? Goodnight
Colin @ Sep 17th 2008 1:34AM
@BannanBoat
"I don't really get why they'd need to do their textures in a new way when the "old" way (ahem...Crysis) worked just fine."
You have to understand how games are created from a game artists perspective to fully appreciate the MegaTexture tech and philosophy. Let me tell you, even with the good amount of RAM in the PS3 and 360, you still have all kinds of limitations with how many, and how high rez you can make texture maps for games. We often spend more time figuring out how to cleverly re-use textures as to not look like they're being re-used than actually making them in the first place. In other words, we still have limitations. If this mega texture tech works as advertised, then working on a game with it would be incredibly freeing, and you would have all kinds of interesting and unique detail all over the world, and all that unique detail takes up tons of storage space. Right now, even if I could use double the resolution on my maps, let alone have more maps per model, it would be fantastic, but compromises have to be made... This tech will not only allow for lots of unique detail, but potentially super high-rez textures on everything.
I for one, cant wait to play Rage!
BananaBoat @ Sep 17th 2008 12:22PM
So it allows for much better looking games on the consoles? I realize I only know the basics of how games render scenes through the GPU, but isn't the limitation still how many (for lack of a better term) textures you are trying to jam through the GPU at one time? Wikipedia says that the engine can use textures "up to 128000×128000 pixels". This sounds great as a gigantic number, but it's also hundreds of thousands (if not millions) more pixels than any monitor/TV can possibly display, so again I have to ask, what is the point?
I'm excited to compare and contrast Rage (on the PC) with Crysis, Gears of War, etc. I'm still skeptical that this engine will bring any noticeable (to the player) improvements. We shall see.
Thanks for explaining the benefits
Residentevil72501 @ Sep 16th 2008 9:08PM
This is bullshit, i have a 360 a ps3 wii and a badass PC, and to cut this game down cuz the 360 cant fucking handle it is total shit. Oh and the 360 version of the force unleashed has wierd lockups during fights that makes it annoying. My friend has the 360 version i have the ps3 version and I bet you can guess which version doesnt fuck up.
Realzilla @ Sep 16th 2008 9:08PM
Can anyone say DLC
Hyams @ Sep 16th 2008 10:14PM
No. The lack of any vowels make it impossible to pronounce.
Big George @ Sep 16th 2008 9:09PM
Um... What exactly is the difficulty in using 3 8 gig DVDs?
Jacksons @ Sep 16th 2008 9:11PM
I think there's a chunk of change involved even for 2 discs.
cc123 @ Sep 16th 2008 9:12PM
Because id has to pay MS royalties per disc.
Lorben @ Sep 16th 2008 9:13PM
"Evidently royalty fees associated with a third disc would make the project financially unviable"
From this article post last month
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/01/carmack-rage-to-look-worse-on-360-if-limited-to-two-dvds/
wuyui2c2 @ Sep 16th 2008 9:09PM
lol, sucks for everybody else. this is just the beginning im guessing, with more developers going multiplatform to make profits.
The_Punisher @ Sep 16th 2008 9:10PM
*clears throat*
Fking bullsh** that PS3 version is being toned down. It was bound to happen eventually, but games will begin to suffer. I can't imagine how they'll be getting Forza 3 onto 2 discs, but Lost Odyssey at 4 disks only worked because i changed it once in a blue moon.
Oh yeah, PS3 FTW xD
Arnon @ Sep 16th 2008 10:22PM
No =/
Arnon @ Sep 17th 2008 8:00AM
No as in "It doesn't matter lol". BUT, this will make me get the PS3 version probably.
vannyx @ Sep 16th 2008 9:11PM
this is what scares me about final fantasy port to the 360, what is being cut from all versions of the game to suite the 360.
Erik Stroud @ Sep 16th 2008 9:19PM
Oh well. I was getting Rage on PC anyways. As for Final Fantasy 13, if I get a PS3 before it comes out, I will get it on there. But, if I don't, my 360 will get it.
Dirty @ Sep 16th 2008 10:03PM
I am sure part of the negotiations regarding final fantasy making an appearance on the 360 included concessions on multiple disc royalties.
Kodros @ Sep 17th 2008 12:39AM
"Oh well. I was getting Rage on PC anyways."
Ok, but the PC version is getting gimped too.
Urza @ Sep 16th 2008 9:11PM
Wait a sec... it's a shooter right? An ID shooter right? That means load screens after every stage and no going back to previous stages? Umm.. I'm confused... why can't it be 3 or 4 dvds?
zuburi @ Sep 16th 2008 9:18PM
::shrug::
He mentions that only two "wastelands" could be kept in due to the 360's limitations, so I'm assuming it's one wasteland per disc. What's a wasteland? It's probably a huge area like Farcry or Crysis' island.
So yeah, you probably can't go back to other stages; but one stage looks like it takes up a DVD. Just a guess.
Vazquez @ Sep 16th 2008 9:15PM
That doesn't sound like a smart move. I really don't understand why they would even do that. Sounds to me that they were having problems with all of the versions of the game and just decided to go with the version of the game that ran. The Xbox 360 version. Shit there probably making the game on a 360 workstation and are just going to port the others.
Noshino @ Sep 16th 2008 9:25PM
uh...if there is one version that works, it would most likely be the PC one, not the 360 one
Vazquez @ Sep 16th 2008 9:30PM
Even if it would be easier to port that version of the game over to the 360 than the PS3.
It just all sounds kinda weird. idk
Noshino @ Sep 16th 2008 9:40PM
ok? they are also "crippling" the PC version if you haven't noticed...
Vazquez @ Sep 16th 2008 9:42PM
Well what does that tell you.
Titanium_Orchid @ Sep 16th 2008 9:54PM
It tells you that the problem ID had with making the game was that it was to large to be feasibly created for all systems, so instead of making a long game for two, they make a shorter game for three.
It also tells you that they are making the game for the lowest common denominator so it could play on as many platforms as possible.
Finally, it tells you that they didn't feel like making two versions of the same game.
Ben B @ Sep 16th 2008 9:19PM
OMG! I can't use uncompressed textures on the 360! Little Big Planet needs a Blu-ray disc. Haha. Blu-ray makes developers lazy.
Kspraydad @ Sep 16th 2008 9:24PM
It isn't just textures...its whole levels missing. The lazy ones were MS for throwing together off the shelf parts and selling it as next gen.
BigD145 @ Sep 16th 2008 9:29PM
"Off the shelf"? They were on the floor collecting dust in the reject pile. That's what MS used so they could push it out faster and compete with Sony.
Smitty @ Sep 16th 2008 10:13PM
If I recall correctly, LBP is on BluRay due to the number of tutorial videos and not necessarily due to the textures.
Noshino @ Sep 16th 2008 9:39PM
uh, the fact that the PS3 uses Blu-Ray disks and a HDD just means that they have more space to work with, but yah, some of them have taken the easy route.
But the Blu-Ray decision also comes at a cost, newer technology to which not everyone is used to, there are developers actually studying it and working around it.