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Reader Comments (75)

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:08AM SneezyPorcupine said

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Wow. Moore is doing a lot of sh*t talking about MS today. Did MS cut his retirement or pension plan after he quit, and he just found out?

Or did MS just rape and pillage the entire Moore family tree?

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:18AM atrimus said

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*shrugs*

as opposed to him still being a Microsoft puppet and having to kiss Ballmer's tail and lie to cover up all of 360's woes. at least he was smart enough to leave the company before becoming candid, unlike that tester dude who got fired from Microsoft recently for revisiting the truth.

as for Rare (*shrugs again*). i dunno. the last game they made that I PERSONALLY liked was Goldeneye. on second thought i guess Kameo wasn't bad.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 1:03AM SneezyPorcupine said

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I'm definitely not saying he doesn't have the right to complain about things that he believed were done wrong while at MS.

BUT, as far as I'm concerned, that opinion really doesn't matter when you work for EA who does things 10x worse by regurgitating the same games year after year.

And he should really make a case as to why he believes Rare is irrelevant! Simply saying that it got left behind because people aren't interested isn't good enough. Thats what people said about Nintendo before the Wii came out and well...you know how that ends.

And as far as the guy that got fired from MS goes, you can read my sentiments regarding that, in its respective comments. To sum it up for ya: It was a justified termination.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 8:32AM (Unverified) said

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Yeah, god forbid someone say something negative about Microsoft. I mean everything they do is perfect no one has the right to say anything like 'They were trying to recreate the more successful days of a company we bought'... what an evil bastard!
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:11PM SneezyPorcupine said

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@ Metal_Gear:

Okay, I'll clarify for you, what I meant was why is he coming out and saying all of this now?!

If he was so unhappy with the circumstances while he was at MS, why not do something about it. He was clearly high enough in the ranks in the Xbox division to perhaps sway these kinds of decisions one way or another. But now that its over and done with, he comes off as a whiner.

Also, if you read further down in the comments you can see that I clearly don't agree with what MS has made of Rare. So quit jumping the gun and putting flame bait out there dude.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:31PM (Unverified) said

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Let's here him talk about the skillset of the guys who have been releasing the same madden game for 10 years?
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 8:55PM SneezyPorcupine said

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@ Dan:

Amen brother!

thats why I said "... as far as I'm concerned, that opinion really doesn't matter when you work for EA who does things 10x worse by regurgitating the same games year after year."

Someone who works for EA has no right to critisize a company who's games at least try to re-invent and be different.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:08AM (Unverified) said

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The problem with trying to recapture the former Rare is that so much of what made Rare great has splintered off into so many other companies.

The "today's skillset" notion is complete BS from Microsoft trying to cover up a purchase that hasn't yet been profitable.


Also "past Rare by" should read "passed Rare by"

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:13AM zuburi said

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The passed/past mistake is there in the source article, so it's not completely Joystiq's fault...

THIS time.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:10AM Lone Starr said

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Exactly.

Although I do think games like VP and Kameo are severely underrated.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:41AM (Unverified) said

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That's what (sic) is for.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 7:48AM Colonel Falafel said

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Microsoft covering up a bad purchase?

Peter Moore works for EA now. I can't believe how many people don't know this still.....
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 1:10PM 343 Guilty Fart said

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Sorry, but Kameo had awful, awful controls. I still shudder thinking of that one boss fight where you had to roll into a ball... ugh.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:14AM StrikeMan said

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" Moore isn't shy with his feelings about the developer, which was acquired by Microsoft in 2002 for $377 million. (That's 301.6 million [MS points]!)"

80 MS points = $1

$377,000,000 x 80 = 30,160,000,000 MS points.

I'm just saying. :o

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 1:59AM CB said

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Or you can just use this: http://www.mspconverter.com/
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:00AM CB said

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...nvm
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 10:37AM (Unverified) said

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or....
$0.0125 = 1 ms point
so
$377,000,000/0.0125 = 30,160,000,000 MS points.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2008 3:37PM (Unverified) said

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or you meant to say 30.1 billion MS points instead of 301.6 million [MS points]!
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:14AM BananaBoat said

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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snappppppppppppp


I can feel that burn from here.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:15AM (Unverified) said

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Damn, I loved Peter Moore when he was at MS. But now...

Now I ABSOLUTE LOVE him. So much more awesome now that MS doesn't have him by the balls.

Oh, on Rare... I can see that.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 11:40AM Freddie Mercury said

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your avatar is hilarious
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:16AM The Kong said

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I have a burning fiery passion for Viva Pinata Mr.Moore, rare does make good games...and they made excellent AAA games...who says they're not capable of doing it again. Im sorry Moore but once you hit the guide button during the rock band demo and my friends started using the phrase "Peter Mooreing It" when we accidently hit the guide, I lost all respect for you!

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:44AM Asakura H said

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That's It?! Because some stupid mistake during the RB demo you lost respect!? My God people nowadays!

As awesome as Moore is, In Other Hand, That "today skillset" is bullshirt! Does Rare have this problems in Nintendo consoles?
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 6:54AM The Kong said

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Exactly, Trouble in Paradise was pure quality, as was the first pinata...and rare has got some secret games in the work, presumably a conker game and I believe a new IP. If peter Moore considers releasing the same exact games every year with new little featurettes AAA gaming then idk why I read these posts

oh and I was just kidding about the respect thing, not the guide button though :)
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:16AM south said

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He's right tho, good old rare is dead.

Man, I am really enjoying interview, anyone know where the vid is?

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:17AM (Unverified) said

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Wow.....I make sure I get bak to him wen Im playin BK:Nutz and Bolts...Rares doin just fine.....They have 2 hidden gems and they are currently makin my favorite plaformer a worthy sequel....Im pretty happy!

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:27AM Divine Dirtclod said

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Yeah... and those Avatars! I mean, c'mon!
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:19AM (Unverified) said

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IMHO it's not the industry that passed Rare by, it's MS and their thirst for proven formulas choking creativity out of Rare. And MS's not wanting to take risks with new creative ideas.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:46AM Vordus said

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A gardening game involving paper animals and Central American stylings is a proven formula?

An innuendo-filled haunted house comedy brawler was a proven formula?
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 10:19AM Duke said

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Yeah, Desi, you must not have played their recent games. If you don't think farming pinatas and creating a child's series based on it was creative, then I'm araid of what you would want.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:27AM zkey14 said

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Peter Moore owns.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:39AM holyice7 said

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After this last BK, I'll be done with Rare.

Without Grant Kirkhope behind the soundboard, I don't really care what happens to them any more.

And to think Nintendo selling Rare was what killed my fanboyism for them...

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:40AM (Unverified) said

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I think a problem that cannot be overlooked is that Rare no longer makes games for Nintendo. As much as I decry the "kiddie" label, there is a substantial segment of Nintendo's market that played the games (Banjo Kazooie, Diddy Kong Racing, etc.) Rare put out. And I don't think PS3 or Xbox 360 have that same market.

I could be way off. Does anyone think Viva Pinata would have done better on Wii? I probably would have picked a copy up, if only for the reason that my Xbox 360 is dead. :P

I also heard that Nintendo had a lot of complains about Rare during the life of the Gamecube. So maybe they just weren't up to it anymore, for whatever reason.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:49AM (Unverified) said

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I think Rare still makes great games.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 1:15AM SneezyPorcupine said

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On another note;

I honestly do not believe that the problem with Rare is that they make bad games at all. It is simply the result of their audience.

Rare's titles would probably sell a dozen times better if it wasn't for the fact that the 360 is known as THE hardcore console to the general public. They are also in a tough position because they are one of the only companies on Microsoft's payroll who make "E" rated titles. So do you think a parent who is buying a console for their child can justify spending upwards of $400 for a handful of games? No.

Instead, MS ends up whoring out Rare and including gems like Kameo as practically free titles by bundling it with consoles.

I for one find Kameo and Banjo Kazooi to be excellent titles. And as for Viva Pinata? Well lets just say that my farm is probably bigger than a couple square miles at this point.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:13AM Lone Starr said

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Dude, garden sizes have the same area cap in TiP as in VP and are nowhere near the magnitude of square miles.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 9:14AM samfish said

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"I honestly do not believe that the problem with Rare is that they make bad games at all. It is simply the result of their audience."

I don't think they make BAD games either (with a few exceptions)...but they are just a pale shadow of their former selves. To me, the closest they've come to recapturing their N64 glory days (the horrible DK64 aside) was with Star Fox Adventures which, once you get over the fact that it isn't a Star Fox game, is actually really fun.
But because they used to make such amazing, great games, they're put up high on a pedestal which taints people's opinions of their games further.

That said,
"
Rare's titles would probably sell a dozen times better if it wasn't for the fact that the 360 is known as THE hardcore console to the general public."

I do agree with this. Rare's games would do better in general on Nintendo's consoles. Hell, even the PS2 would be a better fit, to a certain extent. The base audience is just more predisposed towards the kind of genres that Rare excels at.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 11:58AM SneezyPorcupine said

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@ Lone Starr:

Dude, clearly it was a freaking exaggeration to emphasize how much I've played that game. Jesus man, you wouldn't know an exaggeration if it slapped you in the face.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 12:05PM SneezyPorcupine said

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@ Samfish:

Thank you!! Finally someone who knows what I mean.

Yes you're right. They do not make the same caliber of games as they used to. But for Moore to say that they are irrelevant is a little far-fetched. If he was simply making that statement, relative to Microsoft, then it would be correct. But he makes it sound like there is no market for Rare's types of games at all, whether they were developing for the 360, the Wii, or whatever else have you...

If that is indeed what he is saying, then I completely disagree, because a lot of the Wii's games are the same type of games that Rare outputs.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 4:46PM Lone Starr said

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The internet sucks for sarcasm. You hadn't realized that?
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Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:03AM TX2 said

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I always thought RARE wasn't doing well because most of their best people jumped ship 10 years ago. Microsoft should spend more time hunting those guys back down or something.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:07AM Trilancer said

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I don't why I think Pete would make an excellent stage boss in a 2D sequel to Final Fight

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:35AM (Unverified) said

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If only Peter Moore would rip Peter Moore as insightfully as he has Rare, the Xbox 1's hard drive... more to come ;)

In the meantime he forced EA to revive Head Coach, so his legacy's set.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 2:48AM Coldbrand said

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It's too bad Viva Pinata is the only decent thing they turn out anymore. What they're doing to Banjo Kazooie is horrifying.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 3:22AM Premature ejaculation man said

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I don't care, I want Banjo Kazooie XBLA and Nuts n Bolts!

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 5:37AM (Unverified) said

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I find it shocking that Moore states "their skillsets were from a different time and a different place and were not applicable in today's market."
I happen to many know people who work there are very talented and capable people who could make any game to a fantastic standard. MS -plus Moore, no doubt- have been messing them around so much since the buyout, it's little wonder they have had so much trouble bringing out their games and "keeping up" with the rest of the industry.
As for the beautiful VP, you've got to be completely soulless not to like that game!

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 6:14AM (Unverified) said

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When it comes to Rare in my eyes, i'll always think of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark (unsuprisingly). Now the thing i've never really understood is why they don't revisit some of the ideas that made those games so great. For example, i'm pretty certain that if they literally face-lifted PD and put it out on a current console or even XBLA DLC without the horrible framerate issues, then that game would still blow away most people who never played it. I'm straying into nostalgia and fanboyism now... but some of the ideas in that game... the awesome weapons (K7 avenger lock on bullets... Laptop gun that can be deployed as a sentry... the list goes...) even something as trivial as disarming a guard and then deciding whether to pop him is something i miss in FPSs today! I understand that most of the team has long since departed the company, but it just bugs me that you can have such an brilliant piece of gaming history in your back catalog and not even take inspiration from it. And no, PD 0 doesn't count.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 6:44AM (Unverified) said

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So you couldn't sell a Killer Instinct 3D on the 360? Well if there's any problem with the "skillset" of any developer then usually it's the shitty line their publisher is following and thus dropping great pitches.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 6:50AM Nigeria said

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If Rare were a multi-platform publisher during the 64 days I don't believe they would have received nearly as much acclaim as they did.

Nintendo, as well as Sega, have a monopoly on nostalgia, and they exercise this banner well. For some, Rare comes underneath this banner, but that's unwarranted, IMO. Aside from Goldeneye, there were always superior alternatives on the Saturn - Playstation even.

Rare were only elevated in status due to the dearth of decent games, outside of Nintendo, on the 64.

Posted: Sep 18th 2008 7:21AM Otimus said

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Considering the general, and I do mean GENERAL, American audience for the 360 is the beer-and-chips-action-action-smash-violence-competitive-multiplayer sports and action gamer, I can see why Rare does poorly on there.

"WHUTS WITH ALL THESE GAY COLURS WTF IMMA PLAY MADDEN BBL"

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