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Reader Comments (63)

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 11:33AM (Unverified) said

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May I suggest that you look at [i]The Price is Right DS[/i] next?

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 5:30PM (Unverified) said

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I didn't even know they made a DS version of that. Is it pre-Drew Carey? I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
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Posted: Sep 25th 2008 7:16AM (Unverified) said

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It came out recently. It only has the announcer's voice (or at least someone imitating him). Very repetitive comments like "Spin the wheeeeel!" over.

It's still fun to play, but it's buggy and the 4 audience characters (yes, there are only 4 you can choose from) are ridiculously awful.
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Posted: Sep 25th 2008 10:15AM TomCo said

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Oh and Mystery Mansion, literally the worst game I've played on the DS.

Finished the whole thing in 15 minutes flat.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 11:40AM Swizzler said

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even though it sucks, no matter how bad it sucks, it isn't shovelware. They were working on this for over a year, and most shovelware is pushed out in months time. This is an eternity child. It sucked, they knew it, they just rode the hype wave all the way to the bank while the people who bought it just got angry. Shovelware is easy to spot from the git-go, and is 90% of the time, not an original game. While this isn't the first "n" game, it still makes it into the "indie" area in my book, and in my eyes it is in no way shape or form shovelware... just a really bad game.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 1:35PM (Unverified) said

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watch your back, dsfanboy. N+ is a great game, and it is a near perfect port from the computer version.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:13PM (Unverified) said

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I'll considered myself warned. And I agree; it's a great game. Be sure to read the whole column. :)
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 11:56AM Sketchampm said

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I would agree that it seems little effort went into porting this to the DS, but the game itself is so solid and ridiculously awesome. It does (barely) fit into your definition of shovelware, but calling N+ such a word is insulting, especially since you admit that the gameplay prevails and your gripes are "extremely forgiveable". Calling it "shovelware" suggests to the average gamer that this title is not worth their money...something that I would strongly disagree with.

Your Mega Man article was spot-on, but your reasoning behind this edition of 'Bury the Shovelware' feels weak. N+ does not deserve to be here.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:10PM (Unverified) said

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I wholeheartedly agree. I hope everyone who's angry about this has read the last paragraph of the column. To me, this game is awesome. Similarly, someone might have really enjoyed Pokemon Dash.

How do you define "shovelware"? Is it simply a "bad game"? What does that mean exactly? If the gameplay is incredible but the presentation stinks, is it still a good game? How about that same situation but reversed?

Part of this series is to examine both ends of the spectrum. The swipe states that the games we'll be examining are *typically* critics' nightmares, but that shouldn't mean they *always* will. We need something to compare other games with. It's similar to a scientific control.

Personally, I don't think n+ is shovelware (you'll even notice that I modified the usual title image to show Link praising the game as if it were the triforce). But it does show traces of being rushed to market. Does a game that you enjoy but had corners cut still qualify as a good game? As shovelware? Like I said in the closing line, that's a matter of personal preference.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 12:49PM Sketchampm said

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I'll accept that you don't enjoy N+, but calling it a 'really bad game' is so wrong. I guess I'll just let the reviews and fans speak for themselves though...

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 12:26PM (Unverified) said

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I have to agree with everyone else. When I first saw this on the main page, I was like "N+ = shovelware? Since when? What the heck?" Compared to previous entries, which I have agreed with wholeheartedly, this seemed completely random and nonsensical. You can't say a game is great and call it shovelware in the same article. It's either shovelware, or at the least it's a mediocre game.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 12:30PM makoto99 said

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Based on this and the somewhat loose definition of shovelware, I eagerly await December's "Bury the Shovelware: Chrono Trigger DS".

Don't disappoint us, DS Fanboy!

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 12:40PM (Unverified) said

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this game kicks ass, you guys are going downhill with your calls

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:09PM (Unverified) said

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I agree; this game does kick ass. Check out the last paragraph.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 1:25PM imaginarythomas said

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Interesting points. Although I disagree that N+ should be buried, it does seem like it is shovelware.

I would add a point that shovelware is uninspired, derivative and forgettable. All these points were true for the latter subjects of the shovel here on DSF, but N+ (despite being a port) is a well designed, fun and memorable game.

I must note I've yet to try the DS port so I have yet to see these problems with the menu and whatnot but the original was a solid piece of indie game development.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:12PM (Unverified) said

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"I would add a point that shovelware is uninspired, derivative and forgettable."

Ahh, now we're talking. Excellent point.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 11:29PM (Unverified) said

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N+ kind of is uninspired....in that they took a freeware PC game and sold it for a handheld console. It completely feels like a homebrew app taken too far.

Derivative? Sure. Ever play Pac Man? Ever play Pitfall? It just feels derivative to me. But I can forgive it because it can be sort of fun.

Forgettable? It's a game about a black dot jumping around. If this game had been released on the Atari 2600 we'd probably be creaming our jeans, but it didn't, it came out on the Nintendo DS and Playstation Portable. Out of all the games out there, will anyone list this in the best of the best? No. Probably not.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 1:26PM mp3 said

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To me it didn't feel like a shovelware. There are far worse games in the wild.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 2:43PM (Unverified) said

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Hey! I know you!
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 1:37PM Mr Khan said

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My English professor tells me: it's fine to make a provocative statement, in fact, it's even encourage, but you have to back it up well. You can't half-ass it

I kinda get what Kaes was going for, but it was definitely half-assed.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:18PM (Unverified) said

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Fair enough, Mr Khan. I wouldn't look at this column as me making a definitive statement. Instead, I consider it to be questioning / challenging the definition of shovelware and searching for the tangible. "One man's trash is another man's treasure" sort of thing. But perhaps "half-assed" is a fair review. :)
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 1:38PM Dopple Boppler said

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Methinks half the people in these comments need to actually read the article: the author loves the game and fully recommends it, he just had a rather broad definition of shovelware.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 2:25PM Sketchampm said

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You're not reading the comments very well. The point is, even if it does barely fit the definition of 'shovelware', it does NOT deserve to be "buried", and the author would seemingly agree with that.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:38PM (Unverified) said

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sketchampm, I apologize if you took offense to the "burying" part. That's just a silly title for the series that we came up with. While most titles do deserved to get "buried", n+ definitely doesn't. Even link agrees. :)

Interesting side note: part of the inspiration for the title comes from this apparently true event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_video_game_burial
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 7:13PM Dopple Boppler said

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Blessed as I am with the gift of reading, I do see quite a lot of people simply not reading the entire article and simply having a knee jerk reaction of "BU-BU-WHAAAAAAAAAA THIS GAME IS AWESOME YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT" So no, I think I read the comments, and replied with my own, quite well.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 1:41PM (Unverified) said

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this is an interesting article only because i really feel the same way about Puzzle Quest on the ds.. sure the game is addicting, but the menus all suck and it crashes randomly, and the interface in general is not that great.. i have not played n+, but i can see how a well reviewed game can also be shovelware

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:41PM (Unverified) said

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You know, I had similar thoughts about Puzzle Quest as well ... but I dare not offend fans of that game. They tend to be extra hardcore. Thanks for reading!
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 8:10PM Dante G said

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I agree. Puzzle quest is great, but the menus when you're choosing armor, weapons, magic spells to learn, or stuff like that do not work well. I mean you have to keep clicking and hoping the damn item gets selected... It does feel like shovelware even when I enjoyed it a lot and even finished it with side quests and all.

Also, I don't know if it's just me, but lots of fights from the minotaurs on always started with the same arrange of spheres, making it possible to cheat at the start of the fight cause you could tell which colored spheres were coming up after certain move.

PS: I liked the image of link holding the game as if it were a heart container. GG
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Posted: Sep 25th 2008 9:51AM (Unverified) said

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Thanks! :)
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 1:49PM (Unverified) said

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what the hell? i love this game. I was just playing it a few mins ago. It's easy to pick up and play any time.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 2:49PM (Unverified) said

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This is crazy. Usually it's just the comment section that pisses me off on this site but now it's the main posts themselves?

You had to know that this was going to happen. I mean, I really appreciate you putting this out there, it's kind of cool in a way that you're not afraid to jump out on a limb, I respect you for that but this is just plain crazy!

Oh well, maybe it's just the definition of shovel ware that all of us readers are confused about.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:23PM (Unverified) said

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I fully expected this, and hoped for it. Arguments and heated discussion are the by-products of intellectual refinement. It's when we agree with everything we're told that we start to go stagnant.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 7:15PM (Unverified) said

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Heh heh. I figured as much. Keep on keepin' and thanks for making things interesting.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 8:54PM (Unverified) said

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My pleasure! Thanks so much for reading! :)
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Posted: Sep 25th 2008 10:26AM (Unverified) said

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I agree with this post. He certainly wasn't saying "the game is bad", he was making a point about some poor production value by putting it in this column. Everyone is freaking out over how its like "saying the game is bad!!1". I don't think you guys got the point.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 3:03PM (Unverified) said

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Kaes, I'm going to go ahead and concur with you on this one.

N+ really should've recieved more time in its efficacy. I'm sick of re-selecting my colour each time I play, and furthermore, I'm tired of constantly deleting my own file, because the single-player screen always loads with the cursor on New Game, and only offers one "Y'sure you wanna do that?" before it goes ahead and tears asunder all my hard work; which is made even more annoying by the slow-response time of menus, and the delicately quick understanding of the "You know it's gonna delete your shit, right?" screen (this is a failing on my part, but it wasn't made easier by the devs).

It's also much too easy to drop out of an episode.

And you're quite right; deaths got majorly nerfed in the coolness department.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:29PM (Unverified) said

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Thanks, Holden! I appreciate the support. :)

Yeah, I was considering mentioning the close calls I've had with deleting all of my progress. Selecting an option to start a new game should not have the ability to delete everything! Perhaps additional QA time would have highlighted this issue.

Anyway, thanks for reading! And off-topic, you're a very well-spoken individual. You should consider a job in video game journalism! :)
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Posted: Oct 29th 2008 9:58PM (Unverified) said

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Why Kaes - are you offering me a job?

Because I would totally be interested in taking it, if that's what you were doing. Ahem ahem ahem.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 3:48PM (Unverified) said

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I've noticed a peculiar fascination with hotdogs amongst the dsfanboy authors. :)

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:30PM (Unverified) said

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I can't speak for the others, but I sure do love undeterminable meat products!
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 4:30PM Shoyz said

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I loved the Flash game, and the DS game was barable, though my biggest gripe with it is the limited screen visibility. The top screen is too zoomed out to give you any sense of control, you're almost 100% better off looking at the bottom screen at all times. The problem comes in with falling; you do it alot. What happens when one of those drones happen to be under you?

1. You don't see it, and then:
2. You die.

So annoying.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 5:41PM (Unverified) said

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Has anyone noticed that the game is not being buried in the picture, unlike every other game, which has dirt on top?

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:24PM (Unverified) said

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I'm not sure, but I'm glad at least you did! :)
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:34PM chispito said

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I reject your definition of shovelware and so I reject your inclusion of N+ into it.

Just because a game has flaws doesn't make it shovelware. By your definition, any game that isn't perfect was probably the victim of time and budget constraints and the publisher pushed it out anyway to turn a quick buck. As someone else pointed out, the game was in development for at least a year, which is plenty of time for a port.

Shovelware is a game that sells itself based on the name and box art alone. There is nothing about N+ that fits those criteria.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 6:45PM (Unverified) said

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That's interesting. Have you played the original Drawn to Life? I did, and I really liked it. The new version features the SpongeBob SquarePants license. I haven't played it or heard much about it, but if it turned out to be nearly the same gameplay just with SpongeBob's face on the box, would you consider that shovelware?
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 7:01PM chispito said

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I haven't played it or read anything about it, though I remember the original game having a great concept but really bland execution.

As far as N+, consider this:
How was N+ going to sell? The name, the graphics (and therefore screens on the box), the box art, and the gameplay are all minimalist. There may be a fairly large number of people who really enjoyed the Flash game, but I doubt they intersect too much with the overall base of DS owners. The only way for the game to sell is through word of mouth and beneficial exposure like positive reviews.

I mean, who is Metanet shoveling N+ to? What level of imperfection is required for any game--any game at all--to have been too rushed and, therefore, shovelware? Puzzle Quest had quite a few glitches, but I'm pretty sure that, like N+, your average mother of three small children would pass it over for the box that had ponies on the cover, or a picture of Alex Trebek.

Shovelware has to pander, and N+ doesn't pander to anybody. All you're really accusing it of is imperfection, and then proceeding to wildly speculate as to why it isn't perfect.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 8:57PM (Unverified) said

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That's a very good analysis. I like your assertion: "shovelware has to pander." I think there's a line between "imperfection" and errors and set-up that could have easily been avoided (and should have). But regardless, excellent points. Thanks for your input!
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 7:02PM (Unverified) said

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the original creators of N on flash had limited say in the DS version:

"In terms of design as a whole, we don’t agree with some of the decisions that were made with the handhelds; this seems to simply be a consequence of the unfortunate nature of licensing something and given the vague title “consultant” vs being in charge of production and able to more closely guide development. ...

"As a result the handhelds are not the games we would have made, whereas the XBLA version is exactly what we wanted."

source: http://www.metanetsoftware.com/blog/?p=36

i was a die-hard fan of the pc version but was very underwhelmed by the ds version. they changed the physics of the game too much. that said, the game is very playable, i would imagine more so for someone new to n than me.

Posted: Sep 24th 2008 8:59PM (Unverified) said

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That's fascinating! I had no idea they had said that. I should have scanned their blog beforehand. Thanks for the heads-up! :)
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Posted: Sep 24th 2008 7:19PM (Unverified) said

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This is one of my favorite games of all time, I bought this thing on DS the day it came out. I don't think that the game was all that short changed. The gripes that Kaes has are valid ones, I think that it was probably more the fault of Atari than N's original developers. I'm thinking Atari wanted the game out quicker. So from the perspective of publishers, this game definitely could be categorized as shovelware, but it is still so good, that I would never actually categorize it as such.

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