Wii Warm Up: Get your prediction on

Photo Channel. You can paint a picture white and then draw over it. Then send pics via Address Book

For the last time, 'core' is NOT an abbreviation of hardcore.

a core game is a title bought and enjoyed by those who have traditionally been gamers. animal crossing, zelda, mario super sluggers and pikmin all fit into the core definition.

it's opposite would be the expanded market, those who have traditionally not been interested in gaming.
mega man 9, wii fit, new super mario bros. and wii sports fit the expanded market definition because of the back to basics approach they take.(simple, intuitive controls and mechanics while not focusing on visuals)

So what's hardcore then? And I wouldn't call Mega Man 9 "simple".

bug frawg I don't understand your point. Isn't that pretty much what I'm suggestion, ie. Zelda = core, Wii Knitting = casual? In any case that wasn't really what I was talking about.

While I agree with the definition of 'core', I 1,000% disagree with Mega Man 9 or NSMB being casual.

...ESPECIALLY Mega Man 9.

Just because those games have comparatively simple controls doesn't mean they're accessible to most people, which is the definition of a casual game.

Core, hardcore, in the end it makes no difference: as there is no concrete definition of the words it holds no value. In fact, I would argue there is no value in those words in the first place. It's all rather vacuous.
The first time I came across these core/hardcore words was back in 97/98 in the Official Saturn Magazine. Sony were royally kicking the shit out of Sega and the marketing suits had to come up with some way to retain whatever marketshare they had at the time. So along came all these buzzwords, these core/hardcore words. They'd come up time and time again whenever the magazine would interview a marketing suit from Sega or Capcom. Then these same words would pop up in features section. It must have caught on because the letters section, a section which used to be filled with wonderfully awful Sonic/VF/Shining Force fanfiction, was suddenly filled with lamentations about core this, hardcore that. But nobody knew what these words meant; I have a feeling it gave supporters of the Saturn an unwarranted sense of justification for still supporting the console, even in the face of Sony.
To cut this short, my point is this: hardcore is just stupid branding, an artificial segmentation of the market so publishers can shill products to you. Every time you regurgitate these words you're making the work of a marketing suit ten times easier. People are well too obsessed with branding. We constantly label others as hardcore-casual, liberals-conservatives, socialists-captalists...when in reality none of that means shit. It's really aggressive and unnecessary. I personally believe people attack out in this way because it's the only possible way to explain their pre-conceived notions of what is and isn't correct, which is frankly bullshit. It's well too limiting. All this pointless branding, this cacophony of vacuous words, are just unneeded barriers to what gaming is really about: fun. There will be your favourite flavour of cake at the party, there's no need to cry.
Also: I hope Nintendo comes out with something for the Grandmas. Something like Wii Knitting/Wii love more Bowling/Wii bingo/Wii Tom Jones. I'm a simple guy who loves to see rage, you see.

Awesome wall of text is awesome.

Even I wouldn't read all that.

TLDR: BAHHHH

Hey, I LIKE Tom Jones...

@samfish: when did I say mega man 9 was casual? I said it was expanded market, which applies to any game with simple controls and a back to basics approach. sounds exactly like mega man 9 to me.

I'd like to point out that by the standard of difficulty defining hardcore, brain age goes right up there as uber badass. the dedication it takes to score a perfect 20 on a brain age test, the later sudoku puzzles. I could mention other 'casual' titles that can be just as challenging.

bug frawg, I would say that hardcore/casual is nothing to do with difficulty, rather it's more about depth and artistic merit. Even though it was never my intention to start such a debate, I would say: New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Kart Wii are core games with huge crossover casual appeal, Metroid Prime is a core game with little casual appeal and Wii Fit is a casual game with little core appeal.

Expanded Market (at least this gen, which is all that counts being the here and now), has ALWAYS meant casual. To suggest it means otherwise is silly.
If you're suggesting that so-called "lapsed" gamers who stopped gaming in the NES/SNES era are part of this 'expanded market', they're insignificantly small. The comparatively low VC sales are a testament to that.
You could retroactively apply the label to the PS1 generation, but why would you? They're pretty solidly in the 'hardcore' fold now.

Furthermore, the Brain Age games higher difficulty levels are apples compared to Mega Man 9's oranges. First off, there is a steady learning curve in the Brain games, whereas with MM9, there is no curve. It's flat out balls-to-the-wall hard.
Mega Man 9 is essentially a gift to old school gamers from Capcom. There is absolutely nothing about it that appeals to the 'expanded market', especially when you consider that many of these people had no interest in playing these 'simple' games back in the NES days.

@samfish: you know what game my friend(expanded market gamer) played after games such as wii fit & brian age? megaman friggin' 9. what's more is she loves it. after seeing that I knew I'd always consider mm9 an expanded market title.

I think Megaman 9 COULD fall into that category for the reasons that bug frawg stated, but MM9 is being pitched as a gamers' game, and that's what its being received as.

Much like the next Zelda will be pitched as a gamers' game, but expect it to be much more accessible, just not in a negative way

I don't see myself sleeping for a while if that's the case.

Don't you dare put words in my mouth! I didn't say it was casual said it was expanded market. they are not the same thing.

its not expanded market either. most kids who didnt play mega man for the NES will not give mega man 9 a chance because of the "bad graphics". mega man 9 was made solely for the old school hardcore gamers. so youre wrong either way.

Darn it I accidentally posted it twice.

Damn right son!