Microsoft sued in California for faulty Xbox 360s

No, was it any good?

after having watched the debate, i can say that either way, the clear loser last night was definitely the american people.

can we just vote bill gates czar of north america and get it over with.

@macgyver

nice, and i agree with you

I think McCain was speedballing, what a spaz

No but I watched 2 retards arguing about stuff they didn't completly understand.

Obviously the sarcasm was lost here.

Well, *I* thought it was funny. Does that make me racist?

Sony has no need to start a 3 year warranty. My launch PS1, PS2, and PS3 all work fine to this day. In comparison, I'm on my 4th 360 now which recently completely destroyed my Rock Band disk. Luckily Rock Band 2 came out so I didn't need my Rock Band disk anymore. I just hope Microsoft learned their lesson and really build a quality product with their next Xbox.

I don't know that "many stories" is correct. A few bad machines here and there but nothing on the scale of the RRoD debacle. All hardware has faults, as long you fall within Six Sigma then its acceptable (3 defective units per 1 million made) I agree that there have been a few stories of bricking but I have not seen or it, or know anyone who has had it happen to them. I do know 3 people who have lost 1 360 each to the RRoD. I own a launch 60gb PS3 and I owned a launch of 360 premium. Which one do you think I have had more issues with. I'll give you a hint, it's the one that I sent to Texas, twice.

MS should be held accountable for snowing us, the consumers, into buying defective hardware that they knew was well above the acceptable failure rate level. It was a classic land grab, they beat everyone to market and gained a large install base, but they did it at our cost, not just in dollars and cents, but in time as well. When my system got the RRoD, I had just purchased rock band, which I had to wait 2 weeks to play because my system was dead. Letting them slide and shirk their responsibility gives them permission to do it again and again. What happens when the xbox720, or whatever they end up calling it, is rushed to market with hardware defects? Will you complain or will you bow to your corporate overlords and let them give it to you again and again. Suing MS puts them and other companies on notice, telling them that consumers won't stand idly by while they shovel faulty equipment on us.

SSDD

ive had my 60GB PS3 for over a year now and i havent run into the Blu-Ray drive problem yet personally but out of like 30+ people on my friends list, about 3 of them have. in my eyes, that's a pretty significant problem and something i am definitely worried about. my biggest fear with my PS3 is that it will break and they wont have the parts to fix it since it's an older model (the best model ;) )and i'll have to settle for one of the new ones with gimped features.

anyway, i dont think it's that much of a widespread problem that it would really hurt Sony all that much to offer free repair on that one issue ala MS's 3 year RRoD warranty.

It's not the greatness of the problem, it's how they handle the individual cases. If there is a problem from the manufacturer/designer's side, they should replace/fix it for free.

I'm glad to see CTC all your launch Playstation systems are working fine to this day, your extremely lucky. I have suffered from my Blu-Ray drive breaking in my 60gb from GTA4 and so have many others from that game and a few others. It is not fair for Sony to charge $150 to repair it after the warranty is up, this is their own manufacturing fault. You can google this and see it is a more widespread problem than PS3 owners want to admit, especially when they pride their system's build quality vs the 360s. But now I think the RROD issue in the 360s is pretty much eradicated.

It does suck that the new PS3s will have better components but lack the features of the 60gb models. If your 60gb breaks, Sony will give that model back to you, but it will most likely be refurbished and only have a 3 month warranty. I'm not happy with Sony for this, I've put up with their losing exclusives and P/R blunders, but not their build quality issues and gimping the future models.

Xbox Exec: A new videogame system built by my company is sold from a retailer. The heat sink melts. The system red rings and fails. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of system in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Gamer: Are there a lot of these kinds of failures?

Xbox Exec: You wouldn't believe.

Gamer: Which company do you work for?

Xbox Exec: A major one.

I wouldn't really consider myself to lucky. Out of all my friends that have purchased sony systems over the years only one of them has had a problem. It was with a PS2 not reading disks. Out of all my friends with 360's only a couple of them haven't had to send it in yet, but the rest of us have made up for them by sending our 360's in multiple times. The friends that haven't sent it in yet regard their systems as ticking time bombs and are hoping their timer doesn't run out during Fable 2 or Gears 2.

Generous? Considering the failure rate, this product should have been recalled and replaced with standard quality unit or completely refunded the money. Frankly, the extended warranty is the least they could do.

I bought one (which has RROD twice), but I won't buy another MS game console (or likely any MS hardware). I won't reward failure and incompetence with my money.

FWIW, I'm all for the lawsuit. It's one of the things (in addition to rational consumers) that Milton Friedman said maintains the free market. It's a court so you have to prove your argument.

I bought a RROD 360 Premium for $100 and got it fixed for free by MS. If they give me my money back, I won't complain. I would prefer all Californian's get free xbox live gold or a massive discount like $1 a month for the service.

"You can google this and see it is a more widespread problem than PS3 owners want to admit"

True, I know of two cases myself (only 1 due to drive failure) but many, many more 360 failures. I admit it'd be nice if every company in the world owned up to hardware defects, but it's the quantity that landed MS in hot water. And it's because the units didn't even have the grace to wait until the warranty expired to start keeling over en masse.

I guess the point I'm trying to nail down is that it'd be nice if Sony fixed manufacturing defects out of warranty, but they aren't obligated to since it's not systematic the way RRoD was. And that MS still doesn't deserve kudos, because if you look at the build up to that generous offer...it's not to their credit; it's more like self-defense.

And of course Sony wasn't dumb enough to make their console respond to a multitude of different hardware failures in a manner that's easy to make a catchphrase out of.

PS3s don't Red Ring of Death, they just stop working. It's a lot harder to make headlines out of that.

Not that the 360 didn't have an unacceptable failure rate (Whether that's still the case is an open question), but would it have been noticed as much had the problem not had a snappy catchphrase to go with it?

As for the lawsuit, I'm wondering just what compensation is appropriate for being without a game console for 2 weeks...

@Chin-Poh

That sucks, but you can google just about anything and get results. I spent $39.99 for the extended warranty from Sony. Even if mine doesn't break (hell, none of my game systems have, Nintendo's abysmal 72 pin connector on the NES excluded) the peace of mind is worth it to me.

Also, I swore to myself I wouldn't read your damned story again, and I failed.

...You bought a $600 piece of electronics, but didn't go for the $40 extended warranty? I don't mean to kick you while you're down, but you're not getting my sympathy either!

"I'm glad that MS has fessed up to their issues and having implemented the generous three year warranty on all 360s for the RROD issue while taking a large loss for it."

It would have just been better to have initiated a recall. Having an extended warranty on a product known to have an extensive failure rate doesn't make me feel any better. I don't buy game consoles to build equity and don't really give 2 shits how long a company will support that product. A good product doesn't need that kind of support.

And comparing the 360 to the PS3, in this respect, is like comparing a rotting apple to a banana with a bruise on it.

Not really.

There are other problems with the defective hardware they dont cover on a warranty. Like a disc read error which is from overheating. Video failure, disc scratching & jammed disc tray are just some other problems with the 360 that have never been really accept as fact and dont fall under warranty.

They still never come clean about an actual failure rate.

I never have my 360 fail yet but its only a matter of time. I just hope that we can all know the truth one day.

No, all that is covered by a one year warranty, which was extended from what I believe was a three month warranty. They extended even their basic warranty by a factor of four.

This suit isn't about anything other than trying to hurt MS. MS already did everything they could do to remedy the issue. If that hasn't satisfied you, then the whole issue can be boiled down to the typical Microsoft hating. This is a complete joke and a fame/money grab.

And if you simply want to make Microsoft suffer for this, they already have, to the tune of a $1 BILLION loss. What more do you want? Ballmer drug through the streets by a horse?

Only the dumbest idiots need to get socked in the face to find out they're wrong...

@Ciatrick Leodis McKelvin

yep, my 360 suffered a video output failure but because it hasn't red ringed and its over a year old they won't replace it. Its just been sitting collecting dust. Haven't played Halo 3 in 3 months now.

Glad I have a PS3 too.

we'll see.

Miguel: Don't be lazy. You can get that problem fixed under the extended warranty if you give a tiny bit of effort. Tell them it red ringed a few times but always came back after you shut it down for a while. This last time, it came back up with no video, you can hear everything else working as it should (menus), but no video. They will fix it. Do it online and select the option that it IS the RROD.

jsn

so the answer you have is to lie about a problem that should be covered under the warranty. Sound like they haven't done all they can do to remedy the problem.

Its not lazy by miguel. its lazy from microsoft and lying about all of the problems.

Why would you recall something you put an extended warranty on? Its not like it was killing people, and or hurting anyone?

Hey! Did you not forget about that one model? The one that transformed and attacked that pedestrian! Yeah, I think that calls for a recall.

Im with McCloud on this one,

I dont think cash has anything to do with it. The warranty is pretty long for a console, and the console itself is not harmful. MS im pretty sure has they're bases covered.

[oops, posted in the wrong thread before]

I can't really say anything about wanting a recall. From personal experience, I'm a satisfied customer.

I still have my launch 360 and it's been almost 3 years. I have an Elite 360 that's working great. I just picked up another 360 Pro a couple of months ago for my office. All 3 of them are functioning fine and see ample use from me and my friends... whether it's playing games, watching DVD's, streaming videos from my PC, etc.

I'm not saying that there aren't issues with other peoples 360s when they complain... I'm just saying don't think that it's all 360s that are failing. I don't know the exact percentage and I'm sure no one else does except certain MS employees.

"I can'yt believe the 360 didn't get a complete recall, but cash is king and m$ will settle."

First, you said M$, whichshows right away you have no idea what you are saying. Its all about slamming MS right? Yeah, we got it.

Second, it didn't get a complete recall because it's not a car with brakes going out or a toaster exploding and burning down homes. It simply would not work and thus not play games for some owners - that equals a warranty issue, not a recall one. Troll on.

@Duke

The 360 have cause fires. They recall the power supply already.

@others

The problem is there are many other things not cover under the warranty that are known hardware defects.

disc scratch
tray jammed
video failure
disc read error

None cover under the warranty but all are known to be design issues.

Its facts. Its not the me am bias its just the facts.

Looks like my response didn't post, so sorry if it does show a 2nd time at some point:

You are mistaken. There is one house fire that I have heard of from a 360 power supply and there was no recall on the 360 power supply. I have an original 360 and I know I never had a recall on my power brick. One fire, that was somehow caused by a brick is not enough to call for a nationwide recall of a product. You are making a trend out of one event that was described by engadget as:

"Sure, you've heard the horror stories of faulty Xbox power cables sparking up fires in homes, but it seems the latest case involves the aforesaid console's successor: the Xbox 360. According to Little Rock, Arkansas fire department captain Jason Weaver, a 360's power cord was to blame for a blaze that injured no one (thankfully) but caused some $100,000 in property damage. Mr. Weaver asserted that the power supply was likely crammed in a tight spot with no "space to dissipate heat," and while we've certainly seen no shortage of overheating Xbox 360s, this marks the first time that we've seen high temperatures wreak havoc on more than just the machine's internals. Here's to hoping this isn't the start of a dreadful trend."

The original xbox had the power chord recall. My mistake. There was at least 1 fire.

Why are you defending microsoft?

If we put the power chord and brick aside we still many known defects not covered by the warranty.

What you say about that?

I never understand why people defend a corporacion who drops the ball like this.

There is a reason official numbers are never relased on an actual failure rate.

They did recall the wireless racing wheel for overheating.

The strange thing (and why I am confused) is my friend had to send his 360 in due to a rrod. They tell him to also send the power adapter and power chord in to replace as well. I don't know if that is common. This is why I make the mistake.

Why am I defending MS? There must be a language barrier here. This isn't me defending them. I am saying that there is no basis for a recall. You and the original poster do not understand what a recall is justified by. The warranty is what is supposed to address the issues you mentioned. A recall nationwide on a product is done when it involves a safety hazzard. So no, this isn't about defending them. Its about knowing wtf one is talking about. One fire is not enough to justify a recall. Thats what I say about that.

"Why are you defending microsoft?"

Yeah.. that was a pretty dumb question. Why is the sky blue? Why is Obama a Democrat and McCain a Republican?

WHY GOD WHY!? lol.

Duke

OK I understand now what you mean. Maybe a "recall" is not necessary.

What is necessary is a comprehensive extended warranty. They need to officially admit and recognize known hardware defect. They have not done this yet. Officially the only problem recognize is a RROD.

Disc scratching
tray loading issues (jam)
disc read
video failure

all issues are from bad hardware. Maybe 1 fire is not for recall. But, at the least they need recognition to admit all manufacture defect and repair all of them.

If sony have blu-ray issues they need to do the similar thing.

nintendo did with disc read error in reference to dual layer dvd.

it just seem on the surface that microsoft have the most issue and no recognition of the issues. Then people like jsn say its the fault of the consumer. Blame the victims mentality.

Why people so sensitive over a corporate logo?

Saying the warranty is good enough is not truth. it is just being an apologist.

@arnon

enough with your socratic nonsense.

Why is the sky blue?
Why is water wet?
Why did Judas alert the Romans while Jesus slept?


I never will understand why people defend a mega corporation and make excuse for bad policy and faulty goods. Regardless of preference. trying to akin natural phoenomenon to corporate shill is a big leap.

Can I get a "Fuck tort lawyers?"

FYI - Us tort lawyers don't really care that you say fuck us. The fact is you all come crying for help when you get in an accident or get fired from a job.

Keep blaming the tort lawyers for what the people ask them to do.

like anything else there are good and bad lawyers.


lawyer is like politician - necessary evil.

Unfortunately for you, the prevailing image is of ambulance chasers and whatnot. Abuse of the courts and activist states has led to a measurable decrease of quality of life in some states. For instance, you can't get good paramedics to work in Arizona anymore because of the huge liability burden they face. The courts there have repeatedly found in favor of claimants in situations in which many other states would have ruled that the provider was legitimately trying to save people. I hope you don't get in an accident there and have to reap the consequences of what the worst of your type have sown.