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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:09PM SuperGayParade said

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While a lot of it's true, we still use the same input device (for the most part), and there are tons of similarities and themes among control schemes.

I for one adopted SIXAXIS controls and I've gotten over the hurdle and can use them accurately in any game that has them. When people first try it, they can't stand it and think it's inaccurate. It's really accurate, but *they* are not.

I definitely think gaming has improved my improvisational skills, and how fast I can pick things up.

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:08PM JasperLoons said

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Good point about the input device. Considering we are usually using the same input device, being a gamer seems easily comparable to being a musician. New game = new song. Yeah, you move your fingers in different patterns, but it's basically the same.

Interesting article though Prymus.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:45PM ptcamn said

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I agree with you: SIXAXIS controls are intuitive and work great, but people who didn't take the time to learn them blasted the system as inaccurate or failed, when in reality it is not.

People on the WII camp will say that's not true, that the WIImote works well so the problem is not on the learning of motion controls but the implementation on Sony's part. However let's not forget that the Wiimote has limited axis of action (3) compared to a SIXAXIS controller (they are coming out with that new add on to add the extra axes of motion that we have enjoyed since day one). You have less to learn and in games you typically use one at a time.

Nintendo did something smart, though- they packaged a game that showed players how to use those three axes one at a time while Sony threw us straight into complex actions with games that used all six of them for flying, driving, and shooting without any ease in training. Our learning curve was steeper but we succedded.

Those who stuck motion controls have found it extremely satisfying. I just hope everyone really gives motion controls (another) try and that more games use them.

On the other hand PSEye games don't require much of a learning curve and players seem to get their controls schemes quite easily. Since the days of the EyeToy it has been a revolutionary system (remember Antigrav) that should be pushed further by Sony. Where's Eyedentify?
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 6:34PM SuperGayParade said

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Heck yeah! When people say the SIXAXIS controls are worse than the wii, it's clear they're talking out of their ass. I also agree that the learning curve is much higher with it, since it is more complicated.

I've played over 350 hours of Warhawk and can hold my own against everyone else using it. Because I motion control, I have a free thumb for weapon switching and aiming. In Wipeout HD, you have the advantage of pitch.

My belief is that the controllers aren't going to get any more complicated. There really isn't anywhere to put more buttons of joysticks. So, what's left? Motion control, and it's time to learn it :)
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 9:33PM (Unverified) said

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yes pat, i can definately agree the sixaxis is a lot of fun, especially in motorstorm. really makes the game totally different too! i really do with more games supported it though :(
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:10PM (Unverified) said

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Now that kid knows how to roll!

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:15PM (Unverified) said

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Why do let this guy near a keyboard?

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:25PM Axe99 said

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@HappyPalooza - if you don't like it, don't read it. I'm sure there's plenty of material on the web that you wouldn't agree with or dig - do you comment negatively on all of it? Just let it slide, and stay positive - there are some interesting ideas here for plenty of folk, even if you don't get them. On the other hand, if you have a legitimate argument about this, throw it into the fray :)
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 6:06PM TheSound said

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Why do they let HappyPalooza near a keyboard?
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Posted: Oct 27th 2008 3:14PM (Unverified) said

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I had the same argument when he first started doing his posts, not to mention their headlines had no way to differentiate them from other posts, but was soon fixed by putting the Philosony prefix up.

Now I will drop in and occasionally read them, and while they do ramble a tad, and are entirely based on his experience/opinions solely, that's their purpose, and he does a good job.

I really enjoyed this article, and find that I find myself comparing and breaking things down in outside life in a similar pattern as I was taught through countless videogames. This making it easier to learn countless other skills in life.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:21PM Axe99 said

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I'd take it one step further and argue that the learning is less in the controls and more in the playing - we obviously have to learn a new set of controls for each game, but for gamers who've been around a while this can be fairly straightforward (the last 'big' control change that took some learning for me was when Timesplitters made two-stick FPS controls the standard - now when I go back to the original Medal of Honour I wonder how on earth I played it with the should buttons to strafe!) - But, and I think even more important from a learning perspective - each game _tries_ to challenge gamers to think - FPS games have us trying to outwit ever-better AI and fiendish situations, and to choose the best weapon for the job - puzzle games work on planning and pattern recognition, Racing games have us learn the characteristics of our ride and the track, RPGs have us maximise a bunch of different stat categores (which takes learning as well). This is a certain type of learning, and not always generally applicable, but it's one of the reasons many games have been getting harder and more complex over the years, so that regular gamers are still challenged (but also makes new genres or games in general very hard to get into) - for example, 'normal' in a PSOne or even an early PS2 FPS is considerably easier than in Resistance. There's more, but I don't want to go on!

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:25PM crazypeng1 said

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actually, i liked that article very much, playstation news are great an everything, but this is an editorial, giving info and stuff, and it always makes me happy to hear new positive things about gaming, and this is one of them. personally, thats exactly how i think it works, almost all of my friends can get used to something new, except for the ones that don't play a variety of games...so i guess that makes a load of sense. a person who keeps playing FPS all of the time though don't exactly like to learn a lot, thats how i explain the entire, "my kid plays halo a lot, he doesn't learn a load though" because if thats the only thing you do, you don't learn new mechanics, solve puzzles, or a huge possibility of other things. the more you game, the more you can learn and spread your mind out, and probobly the next best game to help that is LBP!

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:27PM Axe99 said

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Not a bad article - although as SuperGayParade says, once you've learned the mechanics of a range of games, others get easier to pick up (Timesplitters on the PS2 was the last game to really challenge me interface-wise, when 2 sticks became the standard for shooters). Now, what are your thoughts on the actual learning we put ourselves through when we play through each of the challenges in the game....

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:32PM Frylander said

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I remember reading somewhere that video game players are able to learn interfaces at an extremely speedy pace compared to people who don't. because we teach ourselves these different interfaces so often, our brain becomes conditioned to allow us to learn them quickly.
The human brain is marvelous indeed.

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:33PM (Unverified) said

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if only we were as interested in school as we are in games...
o how my parents dream

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 4:42PM (Unverified) said

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Actually, the Dragon Fist is EXTREMELY hard to learn, unless you learn how to do a full blast kamehamha first.

From there it's easy sleazy

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:01PM (Unverified) said

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I would say that playing 12 different games is not like playing 12 different instruments. I'd say that It is more like learning 12 different songs, with one instrument - 12 different games, with one controller.

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:05PM Chimaera9 said

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Good analogy, Darkage!

Kylie, while I get your point and I do agree that you are learning a new skill, comparing it with learning a new instrument (or 12 for that matter) is a grossly inaccurate comparison. I'm a professional musician and teach as part of my career, and it takes several YEARS before a person would even be considered an intermediate player. We're not talking about pressing buttons to play "Guitar Hero." Sure, that takes skill, but playing a real instrument well is far more complex.

Again, I'm not trying to put down the excellent point you were making--I totally agree that playing games requires a lot of intellectual ability and skill. Otherwise, I wouldn't let my 6 year old play them. But I will say this: she can already beat me sometimes in Super Puzzle Fighter or Soul Caliber IV (and was doing this after playing only a few days). On the other hand, she's been playing violin for almost 6 months now, and her violin skills still have a very long way to go before she can even play "Happy Birthday." I just saw a concert given with kids her age and with the same experience, and they're all barely able to play any more than a few notes, even after 6 months.

Gaming certainly requires skill, but please don't try to place it in the same ballpark as playing an instrument. I imagine that professional athletes would have similar complaints.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:10PM (Unverified) said

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I agree that playing video games does teach you a number of different skills valuable in the job market. Troubleshooting and multitasking skills are probably on top of the list.

However, your analysis is kinda half-baked for at least three different reasons.

First of all, video game mechanics are very similar, especially within each genre. You already mentioned similar controller schemes. The gameplay on different games within the same genre is also more similar than different. Obviously there are exceptions, but still. You could, of course, counter that that also applies to job functions.

Secondly, people who play a lot of video games get kind of good at them sooner or later. It's easier for "hardcore" gamers to learn new games. Practice makes perfect.

And finally you didn't mention how well you learned those new 12 games. In my job it's not good enough for me to learn new things, I actually have to become somewhat adept at them, quickly. The same doesn't hold true for video games. You won't get fired for being below average in playing video games.

To answer the question you posed at the end...no, I don't think video gamers are any better at learning new things in pursuit of our passion. When you're more passionate about something, you put a lot more time to it. As I becoming older and I have less and less free time, I've definitely noticed, I no longer learn things as thoroughly as I used to when I was a teenager and I could devote entire afternoons to twiddling with whatever fancied me at the time. I used to be able to recite song lyrics of all the albums of my favorite artists (in a foreign language) when I was a teenager. I can't do that any more.

Posted: Oct 27th 2008 10:39AM (Unverified) said

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Reading through the comments makes me realize that there is a distinction between learning and, for lack of a better term, "input mastery" that I failed to make.

What I was trying to get at by referencing Andy Clark is that given enough practice we can internalize the input mechanics of just about anything. By internalize I mean we cease thinking about the controller and what button does what. We simply "think" throw-hand-grenade, do-dragon-punch, etc. The learning phase involves understanding what each button does, the input mastery phase is much longer and you're right, you probably can't do that a dozen times in 2 weeks.

My point, though, is more about the learning than the input mastery. For many people once something has been input mastered that's it, no need to learn something else. "I know the ins-and-outs of Word 2003, so I can't be bothered to learn Word 2007" is the attitude. Imagine this same attitude in gamers: "I've mastered all the moves in SFII so I don't care to learn Mortal Kombat". It's almost laughable. We don't seem to mind learning new things, regardless of what we may have mastered before. In fact, we seem to thrive on it.

And for the record, I didn't ask if gamers were better at learning, I asked if we're more willing to learn. ^_^
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:13PM iScythe said

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This article is very interesting. I never though about this skill we gamers always use. It might be true because i learned how to use computers very fast and I can learn a new program quite fast. Thanks for this insight, i might be able to apply it to my college essay. Keep up these articles, they always interest me and i enjoy reading them.

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:22PM (Unverified) said

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I enjoyed the article, but it's not a fair comparison between the playing of different video games on one system, and learning 12 instruments. As someone else said, the input device remains the same and every video game will draw similarities from others.

It'd almost be like saying, "Well, in the last 14 days, I've read 12 DIFFERENT books!" And although that's obviously taking it to a silly level to get across my point, I think... you... get... my point? lol

Once the basic concept has been grasped, it can be applied to many other games across different genres. All you need to do is learn a new set of rules for that concept, which governs the different buttons you may have to use.

Keep up the articles though!

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 5:34PM Erdie said

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I like the fact that these controllers are so versatile. From exotic functions like High Velocity Bowling, to the most basic of the basic in Mega Man 9. I would certainly hazard a guess that someone who plays a variety of games would be quick to learn other interfaces as well, outside of gaming.

Posted: Oct 27th 2008 12:00AM (Unverified) said

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It's true. Surgeons who play video games have much better hand-eye coordination than their non-gaming counter-parts.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 6:34PM ocdog45 said

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dope post. as gamers we do learn a lot. if only we can take that into the class. well most of us do.

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 9:50PM (Unverified) said

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I stopped reading the article when the author referred to all gamers as "her" granted that was right at the end. Even though that might be chic thing to do it seems odd in a article about a hobby dominated by males.

Frankly after all this LBP stuff I have determined that I am offended by this article. /sacasm

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 10:02PM Jack Tretton said

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A "baker's dozen" is 13, not 12.

See what happens when you stretch your analogies, trying to make them too cool for the room -- you know, like you do in every single one of your articles?

It's another bi-weekly "Kylie Prymus" fail!

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 10:20PM (Unverified) said

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Well Kylie's writing style has obviously found a readership on Joystiq and has accomplished its intended goal--to provoke thought. Judging by most people's comments on this article, i'd say it was a win.

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Posted: Oct 27th 2008 1:08AM (Unverified) said

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Are you THE Jack Tretton, as in the Jack Tretton who hosted the Sony press conference at E3???
Brad Leder
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Posted: Oct 26th 2008 11:23PM BlingOnMyWrist said

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I think that it's more like learning to play 12 different songs on one instrument as apposed to 12 different instruments.

The controls and controller would be the instrument and the games would be the songs.

Posted: Oct 26th 2008 11:35PM (Unverified) said

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tru. but i found it easy learning how 2 play gameboy to n64 then ps and wii and gamecube. and xbox. within a matter of 2 days
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Posted: Oct 27th 2008 1:09AM (Unverified) said

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Kylie,
Dude, learning to play 12 different games in 14 days isn't even close to comparable with learning to play 12 new instruments or sports in 14 days. Its a little bit more on par with learning to play 12 songs on a single instrument or learning 12 different plays in a single sport, such as basketball or football. And even that's stretching it dude. It'd be way harder to even do these things in 14 days than it would be to learn how to play 12 games. I don't know where you learned how to write, but these exemplifications are totally misconstrued. I'm not currently aware of the process requred for becoming a columnist for ps3fanboy.com, but if you're allowed to submit articles, then damn, set me up with the ability to post also!
Sincerely,
Bradley Robert Leder

Posted: Oct 27th 2008 3:36AM IcerC said

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Once you learn an fps you know fps. Once you learn driving games you can do others as well. Once you have the basics of gaming down it's easy.

And like how if I learned to skateboard I could pick up snowboarding in less time.

I could learn 12 sports in 14 days. Once I can catch then many sports open to me. Once I can Balance I can do even more. Once I have trained myself to control my body I can run and jump. Once I have trained my body to precisely move analog sticks and tap a button I do the same.

I can learn 12 power tools too... in less than 14 days:o

Posted: Oct 27th 2008 7:55AM (Unverified) said

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I wouldn't say learning to play a new game, or even a new style of game, is anywhere near equivalent to learning to use a new OS or learning a musical instrument. These are skills that have a lot more involved than "this button does this, this button does this. Right, let's go."

If it was that easy I'm sure we'd all be computer tech/musical virtuosos.

Posted: Oct 27th 2008 1:52PM (Unverified) said

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Your not really learning anything new. A lot of the controls we've experienced before. Plus take this into consideration.....You can master the guitar in Rock Band in mere days while a real guitar will take months even years. Hitting triangle to hijack a car is nothing like doing it in real life. (Trust me a lot of skill is needed).

I do believe gaming is good for the brain. It keeps the juices flowing and some adrenaline pumping but we get sucked into just playing the game until we become almost zombie-like and eating cheetos until the wee hours of the night(Not sure how healthy that is for the mind).

BTW - I want to start a poll. Every instruction manual has a disclaimer that for every hour you play you should take a 15 min. break. I want to know how many people actually adhere to that rule.

If you think mastering 12 games/demos in 14 days (demos- I mean really how hard is a demo their almost entirely a tutorial) is an amazing feat. Try "mastering" 12 girls in one summer. Now that's a feat to be proud of. ;OP

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