Sony profits sink, game division floats by

I don't believe "Narrowed its loss" refers to losses sustained this quarter...rather I think its meant to be the total Sony is behind the 8 ball over its entire life span.

I guess the wording of the article isn't too clear on that. What it does say is it posted a 10 percent rise in profits". I don't think they lost another 379 million this quarter...

Since when was the unreal engine exclusive?

Sony sure has been offensive at times..

vic- unreal engine is not exclusive to anything.
however unreal engine 3 was designed for the 360 console and optimized for the 360 console. it took about 1 year after ps3 release for epic to master the unreal engine on the ps3.

the unreal engine 4 will be designed and optimized for the 360 first as that console will release before the ps4.

tramd, YOU are the one who is completely thick headed. You are one of the dumbest sony fanboys I've ever seen and you know nothing about simple finance.

tramd:
"if sales are doubling how is that a bad thing for the ps3? Who cares if SCE is still operating at a lost? The ps3 is raising profits, stop being a moron and spinning that into the negative. It is in no way bad for sony."

that entire comment is just...wow.

simple math to prove you wrong:

you sold 1 million ps3's quarter 1, and spent 2 billion on advertising and production. a net of negative $1.9 billion.

quarter 2, you sold 2 million ps3's, and spent 3 billion on advertising and production. a net of negative 2.8 billion.

sales went up, profit went down. you are an idiot.

sony is in deep shit

meanwhile microsoft posting record profits
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6199932.html?tag=result;title;0

"I don't believe "Narrowed its loss" refers to losses sustained this quarter...rather I think its meant to be the total Sony is behind the 8 ball over its entire life span."

If it's quoted at "operational losses", then it means losses from this quarter only.

From what I have read, that is indeed the amount the games division lost this quarter. Remember, even if sales are up there is still marketing, etc, going on.

the 720 has halo 4 and unreal engine 4 in the works already and blu ray wont be a selling point for sony as the 720 will probably feature blu ray and/or higher HDD space...

the ps4 will be an updated ps3, the ps3 was actually a new technology. there will not be a big enough reason for ps2/ps3 to upgrade to a ps4 that is similar to the ps3.

a lot of people that bought a ps3 did so because of the new technology and blu ray and etc... 15 million people would not have bought an updated ps2 console. sorry.

gears 3, mass effect 3, etc..
the franchises that sony has held onto for so long are starting to get old sorry and gamers want new titles..
sony entertainment has not secured enough new franchises, such as uncharted.
tekken.. cough cough.. dynasty warriors.. etc..
most of the ps1,ps2 franchises are now multi platform anyways such as gta, resident evil, final fantasy, tekken, etc.

and the 720 is on course to release before the ps4, which we saw was a strong move for microsoft.
sony cant afford to release their next console after the next box.

Hey Hyams, you seem to know stuff about stuff so I'll ask you a question that has been bugging me lately.

A lot of people say that the Blue Ray is/will save the PS3 because a lot of non-game players will buy the system just to watch movies (fun fact: my 54 year old father bought his first console ever, and it was a PS3. He finished Assassin's Creed and is now half way through GTA IV).

Anyways... If Sony loses money on every console they make, but makes a profit on software, is it a good thing or a bad thing that people who may not buy games or buy very few games, purchase a PS3?

Also, I think Sony previously announced a similar plan for the PS4. Sorry.

I think an interesting lesson here is that a strong fanbase isn't necessarily what is needed to "win" (and by win I mean sell more than the competitor.

While Ninty sure as hell has a very vocal fanbase that isnt whats driving this huge demand for wii's. Obviously the strong base of PS2 owners weren't easily converted to the PS3. While Microsoft definitely was more successful with bringing over more xbox owners, I dont think that is what is needed for success in terms of expanding your marketshare.

I do agree that maintaining the architecture is necessary for bringing quality content to the next PS.

well sorry sony corp can afford to do anything they want to because they get paid no matter what. its the investors and stock holders that suffer. just like any company...
some people dont realize that some officers of corporations do not care how their company performs becuase they are making many millions of dollars yearly and they may even get high bonuses when the quit or get fired anyway.
(this wasnt a personal sony attack, all PUBLIC CORPORATIONS, are starting to be the same)

Do you think MS will release the "720" (for lack of the true name) earlier than the ps4?

I don't know to be honest. On the one hand if they do that again they'll get a massive head start of course. But this gives sony time to make the ps4 even more powerful (possibly super powerful just to quell an doubts about which system is capable of the uber great graphics). Yet at the same time it's possible that MS could account for that and make their system just as powerful and push it to the limit.

I expect Bluray of course to be in the next MS console. If it's not that then that's mega fail on MS part.

Wierless should be in there of course. And they had better keep it to just 2 SKUs....

And the ps4 will just be more of the "power of the cell" IMO. Not much else will change. Unless of course they bring back ps2 backwards compatibility.

Orchid,

They make money from licensing the ability to make games on the system. While it hurts to have a low attach rate to the system, it also helps to have a higher install base (potential buyers).

SK8 you claim that no one would have bought an updated PS2, what do you think the wii is?

@Dirty,

That makes sense. I assumed that the liscencing rights were a percentage of every game sold, not a lump sum

@sk8,

I too think that the 720 will be released well before the PS4. I'm expecting to see the 720 on shelves within 2-4 years

Actually, Sony follows the "we'll make up the difference in hardware losses with software sales" model that they've always followed. It seems to work out for them and the numbers in the article bear that out.

The more PS3's are out in the wild, the more potential sales they have. Even when your console is profitable (like the Wii), if the software attach rate totally blows (like the Wii) then you have lower profit potential over time. When you're selling both the hardware and the software, in the long run, software is much, much more profitable.

Think about it carefully. 16.8 million PS3's out there in people's homes. Sony may spend 3 million or so developing a massive first-party game like R2. If even 10% of owners buy it, they turn a profit, because that's 1.6 million games at 60 bucks a pop (minus, what, $15 per for packaging and shipping). They don't need to keep pushing consoles to make this money year after year. Over the long term, this is a great strategy.

Companies like Sony don't have the attention spans and memory of goldfish like most internet commentators.

Oi, Wii's attach rate does not blow. If you want to talk about licensing profits, Nintendo should be raking it in, considering the mounds of crap that are put on the console every week. It has a fair share of million sellers for having such a poor attach rate, and most of what gets put on the console winds up a profit for publishers as well

@skatermonroe

Seriously, you realize your two posts actually contridicted each other, right? In one post you chastized Sony for not having enough franchises (I'd say you need to look into what all Sony publishes) to drive the next platform, but turn around an brag on Halo 4 and Unreal Engine 4. The first of which, I'm going to be honest, has the distinct possibility of becoming the last Mortal Kombat. I mean, there are two canceled Halo projects but at least 5 others in development over the span of the next three years. And Unreal Engine 4 is currently being built around expected specs and Quad SLi PC performance rates. In other words, in Epics own words, PC is the priority for the engine but the next Playstation and Xbox consoles are definately in consideration. Hardly a boon for one side. Regardless, almost everyone of your posts on this thread has been an insult to logic so what am I expecting as response.

@Hyams,

PS3 has the potential to turn a profit still as software sales are dramatically up and developers will tell you this. Truth be told, losts of companies are making PS3 the priority because of this. The PS3 COULD turn a profit which, to be honest, would be the biggest comeback ever. It's gone from being a reviled system to a serious contender.

@TheNewDynasty

Still?!? STILL?!? You know, if anyone could make a case against Palin's strict anti abortion stance being wrong, all they need to do is wheel your dumb ass in front of a crowd and let you speech for 10 minutes while a giant banner that reads "Product of Rape or Incest" unfurls behind you. You're undisputable evidence those vacuum chambers still serve a purpose to society. It's just too bad you slipped past the system.

@Orchid
I can answer you question very easily and it comes in two attacks and how the BluRay was a good idea. The first is in the gamers themselves. The kind of gamers that buy launch consoles buy games, period. In a way, the lower your console goes in price, the cheaper the consumers you attract. 360 had their glorious initial burst with high attach rates as did Sony and Nintendo. But in all honesty, attach rates are vapor. Completely irrelevant because they tell a limited story and stand only as a number rather than an accurate look at consumer buying habits. SO, the kind of people who are buying a $400 PS3 or a $300 360 are the ones not flinching at $60 games and average 7-8 games a year. That's Sony's current strength in the software side of things. That was 360's strength. The Goal then becomes to turn a profit before you let the commoners in. You want your system to sell below cost (which PS3 is currently doing) to accomidate for the sort of consumers who buy fewer games. When PS2 hit the $200 price tag, they were running pure profit. PS3 is running profit right now but they need a bit of time in the profit zone before they can drop again. This is also why PSP is doing well despite having "bad" (using quotes because, until DS, PSPs current sales were on par with traditional handheld performance) software sales, PSP is operating at pure profit and has been for quite some time.

The second issue is this, BluRay. While those BluRay consumers may buy a game or two a year, they ARE buying BluRay movies. While this doesn't exactly benefit Sony COMPUTER Entertainment, it DOES benefit Sony as the company that sees licensing money for every BR made by companies outside of the BR Consortium. Sony was a majot backer and as such, thanks to PS3, not only sees licensing from game pressings, but movie pressings as well. In essence, it's a 1-2 punch that will never be shown on a fiscal report but IS a boon to the company as a whole.

@Mr. Kahn
Preach on, mang. First, I'm tired of people misquoting attach rates but I'm also tired of people acting like attach rates matter.

"Wierless should be in there of course. And they had better keep it to just 2 SKUs...."

I pray to every god everywhere that they do away with this terrible muti-SKU system and go back to the better, simpler single SKU. There are ZERO good reasons to have 2 SKUs.

"they turn a profit, because that's 1.6 million games at 60 bucks a pop (minus, what, $15 per for packaging and shipping)."

don't forget the cut that the stores themselves take, if its a retail sale wal-mart and best buy don't sell games for the warm feeling it gives them, they get a cut of the price.

and don't forget the cost to, you know, make and market the game :)

ive learned that most people on joystiq have a ps3 and xbox like myself...
joystiq is not a sony forum.
its a gaming forum for everyone.
sony.com is where the rules apply and xbots arent allowed.
just go back to sony.com for that environment.

sk8monroe1

Why are you such a troll?

johnny- hah one of the joystiq trolls himself..
u seem to go onto every 360 forum that discusses live service and give your 2 cents there.

johnny the guy that thinks $ 50 per 12 months is different than saying $ 4.20 per month only because it is a microsoft product that you dont like and justify yourself.

if PSN was $ 5 per month i bet you wouldn't even make a comment... you would say well at least i get a web browser, and folding, and life, and home, and etc...
thats what is funny about it.

u only put your PSN id in your name for a reason.
you only like playstation but own a 360 also or whatever.

its funny you ignored the 1000's of posts on sony.com forums about the SOCOM problems after launch, not during the beta, the game launched october 14, the forums are after that date.
the socom servers were having problems. its okay that you cant admit that.

for someone that likes the playstation so much, you really dont go on the ps3 that often.

Sk8monroe81

1. It was a thread about Microsoft charging for avatars. The conversation turned into a conversation about Live and everyone chimed in with their opinion. Obviously, being the fervent MS patsy that you are you took it upon yourself to tell everyone how much Live was really worth. You chose to reply to the thread so how is it you can accuse me of doing something different?

"johnny the guy that thinks $ 50 per 12 months is different than saying $ 4.20 per month only because it is a microsoft product that you dont like and justify yourself."

Nice attempt at spin. Go re-read the thread. I never said it was different at all - you made that up out of thin air. I simply said what the actual cost is and that is has to be paid up front. It's not as if the concept of rationalizing a purchase by breaking it down into smaller more managable terms is foreign to me - I have kids and a finace after all. But, saying that it only cost you a few pennies a day is nothing more than rationalization. Again, its not such a grand concept that I don't understand it - I just think it a way to justify the purchase.

Because it's a Microsoft product? Dude, you really don't know what your talking about. I waited in line in the freezing cold for nearly 15 hours to get a 360 "core". I have plenty of MS products. Again, nothing new for you to just blow everything out your ass and make shit up because of some weird resentment you have towards the PS3.

"f PSN was $ 5 per month i bet you wouldn't even make a comment... you would say well at least i get a web browser, and folding, and life, and home, and etc...
thats what is funny about it."

How is that funny or even relevant? How would anyone know what their opinion would be in this situation if both services cost the same amount? Thats rubbish. Again, I prefer to live in reality in terms of cost and value. In reality the PSN is free so your point is moot.

"u only put your PSN id in your name for a reason.
you only like playstation but own a 360 also or whatever."

If you had been coming to the site for a while you would know I own every console there is. I don't put my XBLA tag up because I am never on Live. Were it not for Gears 2 I wouldn't even have a 360 anymore. When a console fails on you time and time again it tends to make you a little pessimistic and jaded. So from that point of view (after waiting in the cold & the failures) the 360 annoys me much quicker than the Wii & PS3.

"Its funny you ignored the 1000's of posts on sony.com forums about the SOCOM problems after launch, not during the beta, the game launched october 14, the forums are after that date.
the socom servers were having problems. its okay that you cant admit that.

You see the difference between us is that I base my opinions off experience. I was in the Socom Beta so I saw what a cluster fuck it was. I also bought it on day 1 and have put some decent hours into the game (not enough mind you with all of the other games) after it launched. You see I don't have to read any posts about it because I actually own the game. I can attest with 100% confidence that I have not encountered any problems with Socom post launch. Again, its about living in reality and basing my opinions off experience.

"for someone that likes the playstation so much, you really dont go on the ps3 that often."

Wow thats funny because last I checked you hadn't logged into the PSN in over two weeks. In fact, I even deleted you from my list earlier today. I have nothing to prove to anyone but the people on Joystiq that are on my friends list know I am online just about everyday in some capacity. Maybe you should work on playing a PS3 game before slinging those stones.

To close out this festival of stupidity I think it's necessary for me to say that you have an obvious axe to grind with the PS3 & it's Joystiq user base. The real question is whether or not you have a valid reason or if thats really the way you are naturally.

You have cemented your legacy of a PS3 troll.

So this post is not completely wasted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6HHk9fg2SA&feature=related

Glad to see someone with insight instead of the sk8moroe1 format of TEH SONYZ IS TEH SUXZORS

insight... lol...
sony and the japanese corporations rode this in the nineties and early 2000's when the dollar was stronger. they received more money when converted back then.
now that the dollar is weak, they are receiving less money..
its international business.

u have a dumb post name..- public education in america is one of the best still in the world. it is what the individual makes of the education and if they use the tools available, such as honors and magnet classes.
americans can be lazy and we seem to fall to that a lot of time. well most people that is.

johnny anybody that says something positive about sony is insight to you.

more like parents need to overhaul themselves and their kids in america and not expect a school to teach their kid everything.
that's a poor excuse for the matter.
only someone lazy or oblivious would make a statement like that.
america still has some of the best, not all the best, colleges in the world.


when the dollar was strong and the yen weak.
you were not making posts about how sony was reaping the benefits of this. well things have changed, its life and economics.

sk8monroe1

If what you say is true then that would put you on the opposite end of the spectrum. In that case anything someone said about the 360 would be insight to you. Not to mention your constant misinterpretation of articles (spin), rationalization, justification, hyperbole and just being an idiot.

1. Why did you even buy a PS3?
2. Why did you send me a friend invite?

You must be a closet fanboy.

I dont hate sony or the ps3, i just come on and leave comments when fanboys are completely wrong on topics, such as sony losing money being a good thing, and i like to leave comments.
i dont have many ps3 games to play now.
i mostly use my ps3 for blu ray movie playback, as i had bought an HDTV and really enjoy the High def movie experience. I didnt want to waste my money on the HD player. I have greatly enjoyed MGS4 and hope there will be more games to come i enjoy. god of war 3 should be great. ff13 versus is for me because i dont care for turned based rpgs. i know that i will play some games from time to time. the ps3 was the best/cheapest blu ray player around at the time and the updating feature is great too.
sorry i enjoy the 360 exclusives more and dont care for sony's strategy. sony gears most releases and products for the japan audience, where i dont live or buy games. there are so many sony games that only release in japan. microsoft gives 100% support to america where i live. i dont have to worry about a game not being available to me.
nothing wrong with that.
its just funny you cant admit when your wrong.
and most sony fanboys have that trouble to.
i sent you an invite because i enjoyed debating with you on joystiq.com. if you remember we never really got along from the beginning. debating on joystiq.com and playing games on the ps3 with you are 2 different things.
when debating we dont get along and have different beliefs. if we played a game that we both owned on ps3 that would be fun and not about debating.. its cool you took me off your list.
its like with family you get along but when it comes to debating something, such as politics, it can turn ugly.
i didnt add you to fight on psn, only to play games we both owned.