Miyamoto: Portal a triumph, Mario Galaxy 'conservative' in ways

by Ludwig Kietzmann { Oct 30th 2008 at 3:15PM }

He may not be intimately familiar with Ratchet and Whatshisface, but at least revered game designer Shigeru Miyamoto has had the pleasure of tumbling through dimensional shortcuts and outsmarting acerbic computers. In an interesting chat with MTV Multiplayer's Stephen Totilo, Miyamoto admits that he, like most rational human beings, thought Portal was "an amazing game."

Games that go without the "amazing" label? The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, which the Mario maker describes as "not a bad game, by any means," but one that felt "like there was something missing." And while Miyamoto submits that Super Mario Galaxy did "some things that were very new and were very unique," he ultimately feels that some elements seemed "somewhat conservative."

And it's at this point that we strongly advise you to open an umbrella or don a durable raincoat. When faced with the choice of vehemently defending two prominent Nintendo games or agreeing with the creator, fanboy brains tend to explode quite violently.

Tags: Legend-of-Zelda, Miyamoto, Portal, Shigeru-Miyamoto, Super-Mario-Galaxy, Twilight-Princess, Zelda

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)

Haggard @ Oct 30th 2008 3:23PM

Wonder if he's played the other Valve games?

I wanna razz him at TF2

Jakka @ Oct 30th 2008 4:11PM

Miyamoto is a Spy, the Sentry is a symbol of hardcore gamers and the Sapper is Wii Music.

Godmil @ Oct 30th 2008 4:40PM

I think I read somewhere that Kojima was really wanting to play HL2, but he can't as he gets motion sick.

m0L3x @ Oct 30th 2008 3:23PM

Well he does make a.... but those seem to..... if he would just.... *head explodes in a shower of colorful confetti*

And the fanboys rejoice!

baby sea tuna @ Oct 30th 2008 3:24PM

I'm glad someone can finally admit that Zelda:TTP was "missing something" since that one reviewer (Gerstmann?) got burned at the stake for his (accurate) 8.8 review. As for Mario Galaxy, conservative or not, it is still probably the best Wii game to date (which, I guess, says something about Nintendo's game development...as well as the state of Japanese game development in general.)

m0L3x @ Oct 30th 2008 3:29PM

I agree. If developers cannot see or admit to the mistakes or missteps in their products, what would drive them to create more? There is always something that can be improved upon or tweaked in some way or another. It is the game-makers that are blind to their own screw-ups that pump out sequels more bland and unoriginal than the game it proceeded.

TwEE @ Oct 30th 2008 4:44PM

Opinions are funny things..

Otimus @ Oct 30th 2008 5:11PM

How is that 8.8 accurate to the point that's being made?
That isn't what he said. He gave it an 8.8 because it was too Zelda-like.

BPMOmega [gamertag] @ Oct 30th 2008 5:30PM

I thought TP was a very good game. 8.8 is a very appropriate score.

Problem is just the fanboys who think games below 9/10 are crap...

j.howlett @ Oct 30th 2008 5:56PM

it probably would have faired better had it come out earlier just for the cube instead of being retrofit for wii part way through the making

hibikir @ Oct 30th 2008 6:29PM

The problem is not that an 8.8 is low by itself, but that gamespot reviews of big big budget games, no matter how flawed they were were getting much higher scores for no good reason. The Zelda score had very little to do with the rest of their scoring.

Zelda is great, but I've seen it before: 8.8
Okami is a very good zelda clone: 9.0
Halo 3 is great, but we've seen it before: 9.5

Lack of originality takes about a point away from Nintendo games. For everyone else, it didn't matter.

DBuck_Eye @ Oct 30th 2008 7:33PM

What Mol3x said is what happened to Sega.

BananaBoat @ Oct 31st 2008 12:34AM

Just looking at Twilight Princess, you could tell that something was missing...namely color of any sort other than brown. The graphics in the game were horrendous, considering that it was a last development cycle Gamecube game that got ported to the Wii.

Other than that, I think the gameplay mechanics were completely solid, the relationship with Midna revolutionized the genre (and absolved Navi of her annoyance-related sins), and the story was (for all of it's "samey"-ness) good. If anything, it suffered from being a bit long (too many stupid fetch quests as the wolf) and from weird character actions (like the girl giving you an item to call your horse...at the very end of the game where it's useless).

If they can reach a happy middle-ground between Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, I think they'll be back in Ocarina of Time territory in terms of "greatest game ever"ness. I hope Miyamoto (and Nintendo as a whole) continues to realize that Zelda is a "hardcore" title, and that we expect them to take its development seriously. That means no needless remote wagging, no wagging mini-games, etc. We shall see.

Markez @ Oct 30th 2008 3:26PM

Wonder what he means specifically in regards to Galaxy that is conservative. I would assume he feels that way about TP because it was essentially ported over from the GC. Hopefully the next iteration will be coming before too long.

And yes, yes, I get it, Portal rules, just people please, give me a moment to actually download the damn thing :P I'm getting to it.

kinshadow @ Oct 30th 2008 3:27PM

I wonder if he played Braid.

Tez @ Oct 30th 2008 4:17PM

I just pictured Miyamoto playing and going "Wooooooooooooop!" while rewinding.

TwEE @ Oct 30th 2008 4:46PM

Or Bubsy the bobcat.

GatorSax2010 @ Oct 30th 2008 6:35PM

"Man, that game's like Mario in the future!"
----Soulja Boy

Pwnzerfaust @ Oct 31st 2008 1:41AM

Damn you, Tez! Now I can't stop giggling!
...
It's a very masculine, badass giggle.

OMGOMG @ Oct 30th 2008 3:30PM

Super Mario Portal. OMG, I would SOOOO get a Wii if that happened.

kinshadow @ Oct 30th 2008 3:41PM

The mushroom is a lie.

MowDownJoe @ Oct 30th 2008 3:42PM

I think we'd all kill for a game that had good ol' Mario-style platforming with the ability to create warp pipes that transferred Mario's momentum when he dives into one. Imagine wall-jumping up a long shaft, making a pipe on a sideways wall at the top of the shaft, ground-pounding down to the bottom, making a pipe where Mario's about to land, and using the two pipes to launch Mario over a firey pit!

...I need new pants.

Trickob @ Oct 30th 2008 9:15PM

heh heh, you said, "long shaft"...

Shagittarius @ Oct 30th 2008 3:32PM

I think by, "not a bad game, by any means," but one that felt "like there was something missing." he means that there wasn't enough activities of dubious exercise value.

At least thats what his current game designs would lead me to believe he was thinking.

JerkfacedFed @ Oct 30th 2008 11:20PM

agreed: fishing for 10 hours straight to get the damn large scale in ocarina of time

grr

Blank-Mage @ Oct 30th 2008 11:30PM

Ah, the poster we love to hate hating things hatefully. I love seeing the new and interesting ways you find to show your dislike of the Nintendo Wii.

Rhinosaur @ Oct 30th 2008 3:33PM

Nothing can be "very unique"...it is either unique or it is not.

Carry on, Mario guy.

bouncicles @ Oct 30th 2008 4:00PM

It's a translation.

Grey Acumen @ Oct 30th 2008 10:34PM

Well, if you have a single aspect, or a minor feature, of a game that is unique, then it is a little unique, if the entire game is built on a completely unique idea, then it would be VERY unique.

Indeed, it is true that when referring to individual characteristics unique must be either a true or false value, but since a game has many characteristics which comprise it as a whole, I see no issues with the use of VERY. If it helps you sleep at night, imagine that VERY refers to how many unique elements of gameplay that the game has, rather than the amount of uniqueness.

Anam @ Oct 30th 2008 3:33PM

I'm a fairly big Zelda fan, but Twilight Princess just felt like too much of a rehash of Ocarina of Time. Add in a long tutorial-like beginning where I'm jumping through hoops to prove to the game that I actually have done this before, and the whole thing felt like a turn-off. As far as Mario goes, he's been dead ever since he went 3D as far as I'm concerned.

So yeah, no brains exploding for me. Glad that Miyamoto admits his mistakes and appreciates Portal. If his taste translates into product, this could be good news for Nintendo fans.

Grey Acumen @ Oct 30th 2008 9:55PM

What the heck is with people and miyamoto making "mistakes" I totally enjoyed both Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess.
In Zelda only thing that felt incomplete to me was the lack of difficulty for second or third runs through and the inability to choose whether you played right or left handed.
The other thing was the multitude of one shot puzzle ideas: Only having the magnets in a single level, only using the Top in about 3 areas, only using the fishing rod about 3 times throughout the entire game. Having absolutely no reason to use the slingshot once you get the bow, yet still carrying it around.
Still, Story, Mood, Characters, Controls are ALL far superior to what OoT ever managed, and is STILL one of the best use of the Wiimote and Nunchuk controls I've seen to date.

The only issue with Mario Galaxy was the lack of freedom compared to Mario 64, and that's really only a relative thing, cause in Mario 64 you often had like 4 of the 6 different Stars you could get in any level. It didn't matter which star you specified that you intended to go after, you just had to get inventive. With Mario Galaxy, you pretty much could only go after 1 star besides the one you specified.
There was also less leeway to simply play around, since bouncing off the stage meant instant death most of the time.
Actually, I STILL think Mario Galaxy has the BEST multiplayer that a game has ever offered, cause you can play it with ANYBODY, and it's almost impossible for them to be a hindrance, there are no places where they are essential, but there are still numerous places they can be extremely helpful, plus they can come into the game or leave at ANY time they want.

I just can't let it off with all these people claiming that Miyamoto is admitting to "mistakes" he's made. They're still solid games. They just haven't completely redefined their genre like what the N64 did(even though I still think that TP Wii controls have already redefined the Zelda series) and it's stupid to expect anything like that from these games.

I do agree that Portal is a totally awesome game. I still have hopes that Valve will eventually release it for Wiiware, or maybe even on Disc as "The Orange Square" which would have the complete version of Portal with all the extra download content, as well as Team Fortress 2 using the Valve Online multiplayer. (instead of games^3 = cubed = box, they would have games^2 = square, so orange square instead of orange box)

Anam @ Oct 30th 2008 3:35PM

Thought I'd clarify that I'm criticising the primary Mario games. Some of the spin-offs have actually been good.

J @ Oct 30th 2008 3:38PM

hole, meet shovel.

baby sea tuna @ Oct 30th 2008 3:40PM

Luigi's Mansion was kind of awesome.

And no, that wasn't sarcasm.

Blank-Mage @ Oct 30th 2008 11:49PM

That's because Luigi himself is kind of awesome. Or maybe I just like sidekick characters?

Triforceowner @ Oct 30th 2008 3:36PM

Damn't Miyamoto, it hurts when my brain blows up. You're wrong, but you're right--ARGH!!!

acefondu @ Oct 30th 2008 3:45PM

Well I personally think Zelda Twilight is the greatest Zelda ever made, and Mario Galaxy is the best Mario title in years. But what do I know, I'm just an avid game player.

Mr Khan @ Oct 30th 2008 3:45PM

Right about Twilight Princess, wrong about Galaxy. Easy.

Twilight Princess was basically the fault of them listening to their fans, as TP was originally planned to be the GC's main Zelda title (if you remember very familiar looking footage from as far back as E3 and SpaceWorld 2001), but then they did the brilliant WindWaker, which immature fans bitched about for its apparent lack of maturity. Twilight Princess serviced those demands, a darker turn of story but a back-to-basics approach to gameplay (sans the whole Wolf thing which, while fun, didn't add much)

It was a Zelda game. Fun, epic, and charming, but the thing it missed was brilliance, the edge that every other main Zelda game has had

As for Mario Galaxy, that had brilliance. It took a dynamic approach to 3D platforming, having a good mix of the strange and new and the classic and time-tested. More importantly, however, it felt like it fulfilled the original promise of Super Mario 64, in terms of the vaguely senseless level design, while Sunshine had gone for a more "Realistic" approach by setting its stuff in a fairly believable world

Galaxy's exactly where it needs to be.

ryan @ Oct 30th 2008 3:51PM

Hell yeah Zelda:TP had something missing! Hyrule was HUGE, but all I could do really was collect bugs, fish and maybe a raft ride? Dungeon treasures that were pretty much used for their own dungeon and nothing else? The only good thing about TP was the design for Link. But Galaxy was awesome.

acefondu @ Oct 30th 2008 3:57PM

Zelda TP had what no other Zelda ever had, a character in Minda you could actually care about on some level. Every other Zelda game is riddled with useless do nothing characters with no story or heart. And about the TP world being barren of things to do is not a new thing to the Zelda experience. See every other Zelda game for that.

gst @ Oct 30th 2008 4:34PM

I wholeheartedly disagree with you (and agree with Miyamoto) on the issue of Galaxy. I was actually somewhat disappointed with Galaxy; as far as how much fun I had with it, I would put it on par with Mario Sunshine. It was a wonderful game and I enjoyed immensely it for what it offered, but I think "conservative" is a good way to describe its failings (if they can even be considered "failings").

As a disclaimer: clearly, this is a subjective concern, and likely results from the fact that I have ridiculously high standards for a Mario game, and I'm sure Miyamoto's standards are higher than any individual gamer's could be, which is a good thing to know. He doesn't exactly elaborate on what he means by "conservative," but I can see where he is going with that comment.

In my initial opinion, Galaxy was too easy, too linear, and the new mechanics, while interesting, were just not played with enough - it just barely touched the surface of what it could have done. To be specific, I would have liked more sections that played with gravity, more enemy types that played upon new dynamics, more chances to freeze waterfalls and wall-jump up them (!), more devilish secrets, and overall more unreasonably challenging platforming sections.

I think alot of those concerns can fall under the heading of "conservative." The great ideas were presented in little snippits, while the most basic of mechanics (spinning and pickin up little stars with the wiimote) I think were overplayed. Together with the difficulty (I just didn't feel like the game wanted to destroy me quite as much as Mario 64 did) and linearity, this points toward a development philosophy that had been reigned in a little bit to appeal to a broad audience.

If you say "worthy successor to Mario 64", in my mind, that has to be Mario jumping right out of the end of Mario 64, 120 stars in hand and flying off into space, picking up at the same level of difficulty, opennness, and complexity that were present in Mario 64. Galaxy seemed to scale back just a little bit, taking a less risky route and opting to let people just play around with the mechanics. That is wonderful, but, if I am catching Miyamoto's drift, it also makes the game a little less satisfying for him and for some gamers... and for Miyamoto himself, who probably has ten times as many ideas in his head as Nintendo was actually able to implement in the game.

CGamble20 @ Oct 30th 2008 4:51PM

*sighs* I'm not reading that.

Levi @ Oct 30th 2008 5:30PM

@ acefondu

I cared a lot about Error.

Atr-Slzr-Ctr @ Oct 30th 2008 5:58PM

I AM ERROR

Atr-Slzr-Ctr @ Oct 30th 2008 6:05PM

@ Mr. Khan:

While I agree with your SMG opinion, and so do I with tWW was awesome and had more substance than TP, I like TP more in the visuals department. tWW was awesome, but the character design wasn't very appealing to me (big arms, small legs, flat faces?). The BIG problem with TP was the "meh-I-have-seen-this-before" game elements (and the story at some point), but the game was solid, no doubt about that, and the characters and art design was one of my favorites.

P.S. Now a TP design with some tWW cel-shaded mix... mmm ;)

ryan @ Oct 30th 2008 9:55PM

@acefondu

My point was that the world was pretty huge, right? And what could you do with huge world? Almost less than you could in previous Zelda games! Barren Hyrule as far as the eye can see...

Yourself @ Oct 30th 2008 3:49PM

I think it would be hard not to call Galaxy "somewhat conservative". While it's not by any means formulaic, it belongs to one of the oldest genres in gaming, and Miyamoto never seems fully satisfied unless doing something unparalleled (see Pikmin).

That being said, I don't think it's meant as or should be taken as an insult to the game. SMG was intended to be the apex of the platformer, Mario's magnum opus. And it was, in every respect. A trailblazing game like Portal is bound to have a few rough edges, but it's fantastic by merit of its freshness. A game with an ancient foundation like SMG doesn't get those free points, so it is forced to master implementation if it wants to be worthwhile - and hell if it doesn't.

Twilight Princess? I don't like getting too involved in that one. Something was definitely a bit off, and WW is by miles the better game, but it had the best actual specific level design of all the Zeldas, which is to say the dungeons were the best. The world was just a bit bland, though, and I'm not sure the art style was where it could have been (with the exception of the bosses). Better than most games? You bet. Better than most Zelda games? Only if you aren't a fan.