Opinion: Why I can't go beyond the first 5 mins of Call of Duty: World At War
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Nov 10th 2008 at 3:59PM }
While not the first game to portray the Pacific-side of WWII, World At War is the most prominent. One could argue for Medal of Honor's pair of entries, but those came as the franchise was dwindling (not to mention, before and during Joystiq's infancy). World At War follows the overwhelming reception of Call of Duty 4 and benefits from a massive marketing campaign from its publisher, Activision. In short, it's in my face and on my mind.
This morning I watched the first five minutes of gameplay, which promised "disturbing" game content and historical footage (read: real-life executions). The video made my stomach bubble. My knees a little wobbly. My breath short, and my face hot. It made me think about my grandmother, who as a little girl was shipped with her family from their farm in California to an internment camp in Arizona. It made me think of her brother and brothers-in-law who were drafted into the United States military and fought, with pride, in the war in Europe. It reminded me of the shame I felt as a child when teased. An inheritance of lingering hatred.
I have a very personal problem with demonizing the Japanese. I don't feel that way about the Nazis. I draw a disconnect between Nazis and Germans as large as the divide between "alien" and human. The Nazis have been transformed into monsters, which does not need to be justified in my gaming. But the Japanese Empire that bombed Pearl Harbor and the Japanese today, even Japanese-Americans, are very much intertwined in my perception. Those people are connected for me -- a part of me -- and I see them in World at War.
I'm not calling for reparations, for a game "patch." I just want to share with you -- to start a dialogue. I don't think game developers should be forced to tiptoe around uncomfortable issues; or protect the feelings of a minority. But I think it's fair to judge a game based on its treatment of these factors. It's fair to say: This is how I'm feeling. And to ask: How about you?
I haven't been beyond those first five minutes of the game, and probably never will. I don't know what attempts Treyarch has made or not made to humanize the Japanese, or to tell the story of a Japanese-American whose family is locked away while he fights in Europe. I would hope for some contrast to the ruthless "fuckers" who use your fellow soldier's face as an ashtray and then slit his throat. I'm not looking to excuse the cruelty of the Japanese Empire, especially toward the Chinese and Koreans, but I would hope for parts of the experience to not be so black and white. A last level, perhaps, set on Monday, August 6, 1945. A view through the eyes of a civilian on the streets of Hiroshima at 8:15 am.
Author's note: It's not my intention to make a definitive statement about the validity of demonizing one group over another for the purpose of creating a video game "enemy." I did intend to highlight the unique contradiction between my experience "fighting" against Nazis in games and my hesitance to take on the Japanese in World At War. How strange, indeed. What I'm wondering is: Have the Nazis transcended beyond historical reality into a mythical "beast" onto which we can safely project our aggression (à la an alien -- something not human)? What's the danger in that? (By the same token, what's the danger in, say, choosing to exclude the Bombing of Dresden from our WWII games?)
As games become more realistic, as they recreate history, what's their value to us? They're entertainment, sure, but when a developer takes on, for example, World War II, there's an expectation to get it right. Water it down? Of course not! But tell the truth. I think the Pearl Harbor attack and the subsequent mass internment of Japanese-Americans living on the West Coast complicates World At War, as do the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These issues should be addressed in the game -- and perhaps they are. Many games are, after all, stories that reflect our human experiences. And great games should be reflections of truth.
Similarly, yes, we should question the game's predecessor, Call of Duty 4. To what extent does it reinforce our stereotypes and fears concerning the very real issues of today? I didn't want this opinion piece to branch far beyond the visceral reaction I had to watching the opening minutes of World At War, but that doesn't mean the discussion shouldn't do so. You can choose not to be a part of the discussion, or to lob some hateful remark into the comments (for which you will be banned), but it's my hope that there are readers out there who are interested in thinking and talking about how games make them feel -- who don't believe certain games should be taken lightly; that instead, games have the power to evoke deeply human experiences. So, please do so below.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
Mark C @ Nov 10th 2008 4:21PM
"...shouldn't any American"
No.
Also - that is a racial slur, FYI. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt in thinking you probably didn't know any better, since your Avatar suggests that you are from Texas.
arrrgh @ Nov 10th 2008 4:07PM
sounds brutal, real executions ftl. Don't want that in my games
I'll stick to fiction. Gears2, R2, FarCry2 all have my attention far to much for this game to register on my radar
brickwalker0 @ Nov 10th 2008 4:08PM
agreed.
so many other shooters make me see WaW as forgettable.
TheHashishin @ Nov 10th 2008 4:16PM
sounds brutal? have you ever played gears of war? el oh el
Vegeta (aka Ska Oreo) @ Nov 10th 2008 4:29PM
wait you have a problem with executions, yet you have no problem playing Gears which has you chainsawing enemies?
RiccochetJ @ Nov 10th 2008 4:41PM
@ Hash and Vegeta
That's like comparing the over the top violence in Starship Troopers to the violence in Saving Private Ryan.
Grindstone @ Nov 10th 2008 11:58PM
In Gears you can chainsaw people to death, stomp their brains in, use them as meat shields, and so on and so forth. You can call that fiction, but it is just as likely to happen in real wars as well, or even more brutal situations. The only difference is that you tell yourself that *this* war is fictional. But the actions still apply to real life.
And lets face it, when in online mode, you are acting out what could be done to real people. Not only that, but all your bragging online about your L337 skills pretty much parallel the attitudes of real hardened soldiers used to dealing death. And the Japanese were no strangers to those ideals.
JoeTheBlow @ Nov 10th 2008 4:52PM
Ugh, man, that bit with the fight where he slowly plunges that knife into the chest of crazy Eddie from Friends STILL gives me nightmares.
Too much realism for me, i play games to escape horrible, awful reality.
Nice piece btw, James.
BananaBoat @ Nov 10th 2008 5:05PM
My ancestors are English, and as such, basically American by some cultural similarities. I don't like the idea of Japanese people killing virtual depictions of my ancestors in these WWII games.
Oh right, I don't care because it's a freaking game.
America has excellent ties with Germany and Japan right now, as does the rest of the great eight. Germans are human too, despite the author having alienated them, and they hail from the same Judeo-Christian and Roman (also greek) heritage that the rest of western civilization does. It's true that Japanese Americans were highly suspected, and put into camps, but then again, none were gassed like so many Jewish people (which the Japanese didn't exactly take a stand against during the war). Then there are the atrocities by Japan in China, etc. The moral of the story? Everyone shares a little bit of blame for all of the crap that happened in WWII, but no country shares more of the blame than Germany and Japan. So there is no high horse to be mounted here, except by the USA and England for which the world owes a massive debt of gratitude. Natch.
Oh and everyone has forgiven Germany and Japan, except rednecks, and the Jewish (who, let's face it, have a pretty damn good reason never to forgive them).
Hickeroar @ Nov 10th 2008 5:12PM
I'm personally just plain sick of the Call of Duty series, and how beaten to death they have made it. They keep trying to up the ante by introducing more guts, bigger explosions, more going on all at once, and more "over the top" stuff, but It's nothing but a grind through the same exact core gameplay we've been playing since CoD1...regardless of setting or time period.
Let the series die, and move on to a new IP.
On top of that, the WW2 setting has been SO overdone, I can't even express it. We have pretty much already played every notable battle that went on during the war 15 times by now in many different games, genres, and ways. Enough is enough people. Seriously.
Alex @ Nov 10th 2008 5:24PM
Was actually thinking about this, but now that the real life executions bit is known, I will be definitely avoiding it. I can never understand what people see in actual violence. I say that because I love games like Gears, BioShock, Max Payne and Doom, because they are fake. I can tolerate Manhunt even -- Because I know it's all fake.
People who have sick videos of soldiers dying in places like Iraq etc on their phones make me sick. Why would anyone want that? I saw an advert for Amnesty International when the Secret Policeman's Ball was on TV (UK) and it made me sick. I felt bad for the rest of the week afterwards. (I would link to it on YouTube but I'll let you find it because it really upsets me.)
This is where games should not go: Actual footage. I felt uncomfortable doing the Chopper level on CoD4 where you have the bombs and you have to kill the soldiers on the ground because it felt so real. It looked just like the videos that I see on the news on TV.
So well done Treyarch/Activision/whoever. I definately will not be getting this now.
eNrique @ Nov 10th 2008 6:57PM
Hey banana;
You are actually forgetting who defeated the germans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Soviet_flag_on_the_Reichstag_roof_Khaldei.jpg
Gabriel @ Nov 10th 2008 7:13PM
Chainsaw duels in Gears of War 2 is one thing. I have no problem with fantasy violence; chainsawing Locusts is great.
Using footage of real executions is quite another thing, and is frankly quite disturbing. Aside from that, we're turning suffering that actually happened into some form of entertainment. It would be different if it were being used to provide some sort of artistic message, but this is Call of Duty. It's a cash cow, something cranked out to get bucks, and they're using real suffering to make a profit. That bothers me.
I'm not one to jump on video game violence; I see no problem with fantasy violence, even if its realistic. Real violence, however, used for entertainment value is another story. When did we as gamers become so numb?
eldee @ Nov 10th 2008 8:26PM
and here we hit the nerve of all humanity.. nobody cares until their race/gender/whatever is portrayed badly in a game, then the tears start.
get over it, it's a game.
Get over it like you got over shooting up spaniards in RE4, get over it like you'll get over shooting up africans in RE5. Get over it like you got over killing arabs in every desert-themed FPS out there.
I swear, if every crying minority had their way all we'd have is peggle and world of goo to play. and then somebody would cry about how all the goo is black and that's racist, and how there are so many balls in peggle it's obviously masculine and sexist.
Lars @ Nov 10th 2008 8:45PM
I dunno, I think games that want to get into the grit of WW2 need to push the envelope and be brutal and realistic. Otherwise they're just cop-outs and not even worth wasting time on. It's OK to sugar-coat war sometimes, in order to get a fun and lighthearted game out of it, but you still need a reminder of the brutal truth of it all. If we forget what our forefathers went through during the war (whether they be Japanese, British, German, Jewish, whatever), then we have truly dishonored them.
As long as the game doesn't force my character to do unforgivable acts such as torture, then I'm OK with it.
Baineblade @ Nov 10th 2008 9:40PM
And this is why I most weep. I enjoy history, it's a passion with me. Now before I go any deeper I'd like to point something out, I am 1/4 Japanese, so don't even think for a second that I'm being racist or biased against the Japanese culture, only their actions during WW2 and the pre40s invasion of China. This game is portraying a historical fact from world war 2. The Japanese were brutal, savage, and inhumane in the most extreme of cases. Take the "Alamo of the Pacific" incident for example, or the Japanese occupation of Wake Island as it's known for most. 98 civilians and military personnel were executed. These were prisoners of war used as slave labor, one escaped, was able to carve into a coral rock what had happened, was then recaptured and beheaded. The Bataan Death March, another atrocity committed by the Japanese forces in the Philippines. Go ahead and read about it, it's one of the worst atrocities committed by the Japanese against United States personnel. I think it's perfectly reasonable to portray the Japanese just as they were during World War 2. Which was savage, brutal, inhuman and completely unforgivable. Despite what the United States did to its Japanese American Citizens, it does not even begin to approach what the Imperial Japanese forces did to our service men, our citizens, and our allies. Most people today feel it's wrong to portray anything even approaching what had happened during World War 2 in games. Yet, if we deny historical fact, we essentially deny that it ever happened. Which as human beings, is the greatest of all atrocities committed upon ourselves.
Penguin Warlord @ Nov 10th 2008 10:19PM
@Banana
I don't think America can stand on its high horse either. The Firebombing of Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, not to mention not joining the war until they got hurt.
Pearl Harbour was terrible but it was an attack on one naval base. The Americans did far worse to innocent Japanese civilians in those cities.
The only country that can really stand on its High Horse is England. Even if they did some terrible things they fought from the start, and they endured many attacks on their homeland.
Now I disagree with the article in that there is no difference between having games where you show Nazi attrocities and Japanese attrocities. Both were terrible, you can't just cover them up.
And one of my favourite Onion headlines from WWII:
"Japanese make allies with white supremecists in very well thought out plan."
BananaBoat @ Nov 11th 2008 12:09AM
@Penguin
As Americans, we are guaranteed a permanent high horse, because we are awesome. Also, because once it's war, it's war. If we were at war, pearl harbor would have just been a surprise attack. Since we weren't, it was a terribly douchey thing to do. On the other hand, the bombing of innocent civilians occurred in all nations because...let's face it....bombs weren't as "smart" back in the day, and you generally had to carpet bomb the fuck out of an entire country side to hit anything.
My English grandparents lived a good portion of their childhoods in bomb shelters. I doubt they have any sympathy to extend to the Japanese or the Germans, but I'm sure they wouldn't be too offended by a video game nonetheless.
Someone should make that game... I can hear Don LaFontaine's voice now "In a world where you are six years old and you are huddled in a spider infested bunker while air raid sirens whine and bombs blow the shit out of your entire town"
Oh, and the amount of anti-japanese rhetoric on youtube is insane. Look at the comments to any hardgay video, and it's like "Japan raped Chinese blah blah blah blah" get over it already people, frick.
(I need another drink)
Charon_Sin @ Nov 11th 2008 1:37AM
I totally agree with the killing Nazi part of this review because it totally allows me to live out my fantasy about killing my German wife.
Oh, that sounded kinda bad.
Just because it is history doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I still get the creeps watching parts of Saving Private Ryan but race has nothing to do with it.
I think we have a few years before video games recreate some of the gut gripping moments of Private Ryan. Video game characters don't have the soul and range of expression that a fantastic actor can portray.
I saw Private Ryan with my brother and I remember walking out of the theater speechless. I don't think we said a word to each other until we got home.
Do we want a video game to have that impact on us? I don't think I could play for very long.
Can a video game be too real?
Do you want a game where you have to plunge a dagger into the chest of crazy Eddie from friends? Do you really want that level of realism? To see the look in his eyes as his life ends. Gives me the creeps just thinking about it.
I grew up on Sega and NES, hell it was Amiga before that if I really want to date myself. I used to think that the "research" about video games causing violence in kids was a bunch of crap but now I don't know. I don't expect any "kid" to be playing CoD but if the series gets to that level of realism couldn't even imagine a 17 year old playing it without some....I don't know.
So in the end I agree with the author but not for the same personal reasons.
Luke @ Nov 11th 2008 4:06AM
I'd like to make the point that even though Far Cry 2 is a fictional story the underlying issues are real ones.
Robbie Cooke @ Nov 11th 2008 7:59AM
I'm seriously considering not buying this game for one reason : (ironically) the marketing.
This game should be a visceral account of part of parts of WW2 that many people forget (at least in teh UK) - the island deathtraps of the pacific, and Russia's brave but vengeful and retributional taking of Germany.
If you watch the launch trailer it shows massacre, execution and all sorts of horrible death to an awful pumping heavy metal soundtrack in slow-mo. It makes me laugh when you think how mature and perfectly pitched the launch trailers were for Halo and Gears - both great games with little real seriosness.
The marketers (like in previous WW2 CODs) should be highlighting how the tech of the PS3/360 allows you to replicate the feeling - the fear of being ambushed, not knowing your enemy, or the uncontrollable and guilt-laden urge to revenege freinds deaths by executing prisoners. I.e. immersion and respect for the horror of war ... Band of Brothers, did it perfectly for example, as did Brothers in Arms to some extent, even tho they were entertainment products first and foremost.
Instead we get a riduculously innapropriate 'nasty tricksy asians' stereotype right out of a C19 pantomime and (probably) some marketing blurb on the back of the box saying 'do real gory executions man'.
Disgusting. Espeically given that the proximity to Armistice day for WW1.
A great game no doubt...but I won't buy into it.
wired2thewall @ Nov 11th 2008 8:44AM
@Grindstone
I was thinking the same thing. Just because the author has seen it in real life, he isn't affected but when it's caught on tape, his morals boil to the surface. I wonder if he would ever play another FPS if he saw little bits of what has happened in Darfur or Rwanda. Count yourself lucky if you were simply executed by a bullet to the back of the head compared to the body mutilation, rape and carnage that has occurred (and is still happening) in other areas. Would you ever play Manhunt or use a machete type weapon in a FPS if you saw the "art" that some of the Darfur "rebels" have inflicted upon others with their machetes?
Typical though for people who don't travel or prefer to only focus on what matters to them.
To the author: If you really wanted to show that you are coming from the moral high ground, you would simply abandon violent video games altogether instead of picking and choosing which games you find offensive but I'm sure your convictions are not that strong.
Hikari @ Nov 11th 2008 2:12PM
@ Bananaboat,
If you think the whole world has forgiven the Japanese and the Germans for what they have done in WWII, you are greatly mistaken and ignorant.
BTW, nice article, I too, will be avoiding this game and stick to playing COD4.
EerieToaster @ Nov 12th 2008 10:29AM
I can understand where a lot of you are coming from, but I would like to say one, simple little thing. As several comments have noted that we are using such brutal footage for entertainment value, I'd like to note that videogames are now far from being a medium solely devoted to entertainment.
You may say this is different because of its interactivity, but you don't actively participate in those portions. Might it still be disturbing? Absolutely. But it should not be criticized any more heavily than the movies Flags of our Fathers or Letters from Iwo Jima, which so many people felt the need to walk out of. One person said that real footage is somewhere games should never go. To that I say, what makes you think this is just a game. Pac Man was just a game. Today, most games are something more.
Does that mean the "it's just a game" argument is moot? No more than the "it's just a movie" argument is. As new mediums become more prominent, it is only natural for information both real and fictional to be conveyed through them. It used not to be Ok to write about such horrors. It used not to be Ok to document such things in photographs, on film. Such things should not be hidden, all aspects of history and human atrocity should be dealt with that the human race as a whole might someday learn from its mistakes.
The problem here is that the videogame medium is still associated with adolescent entertainment. There are games made for children to enjoy, and there are games made for reasonable adults to experience. This is the latter. It may be disturbing at times, it may offend you, you may want nothing to do with it and I understand that. There are games I do not wish to play either. But until games force you the player to commit these human atrocities or even allow you to actually torture another individual in such a gruesome manner, I will stand up for the evolution of the medium and its right to free speech.
Alex @ Nov 10th 2008 9:24PM
Interesting view point, sadly I doubt the masses will look into the content of the game at any more then face value, it's just another thing to shoot at and gain xp for.
I was also hoping for them to show the bomb, not because I disagree with the military decision, but just to make it more "thought provoking" if you will.
In any event it will be interesting to see where CoD: WoW grabs its base from, if at all, will all the CoD 4 players migrate? The halo folks are currently caught up in GoW 2, and well folks like myself, are waiting for the best of them all, Left 4 Dead.
Feep @ Nov 10th 2008 4:09PM
Mr. Riley, this is weakness.
Treyarch is portraying the Pacific front as they see fit, and as you stated, they don't have to change a thing. But your inability to conquer your own childhood fears is causing you undue pain and anguish.
I'm Jewish. I know the feeling. But when some idiot in the street insults me, or someone uses some epithet or another, I shrug it off. Those people are fools, uneducated and wrong, and to let their words hurt me would mean letting them win. Stop allowing others to so deeply wound you. You'll be a lot happier for it.
Marty @ Nov 10th 2008 4:48PM
While I agree with you that it's best to take the high route and shrug off those who might seek to harm you through vile insults and actions, I think there is still a place for people to ignore (and discuss) media that may take too shallow a view at such a complex issue.
There's nothing wrong with the author avoiding this sort of thing if it makes him feel uncomfortable - in fact, it just goes to show you how sometimes it's still a risk to portray such events in films and games, even after so much time has passed, and we've come so much farther beyond it.
facesniff @ Nov 10th 2008 5:12PM
As a Jew, are you at all disturbed by the fact that you will be a first-person Nazi in WaW? I am not going to buy this game - I just can't bring myself to run around as a Nazi. It's not right.
Popfrogs @ Nov 10th 2008 6:24PM
Right, because the "dumb ole Jew!" catcalls and harassment is so common when you're out walking around.
Can't someone else have a persecution complex for 5 minutes?
Feep @ Nov 10th 2008 6:44PM
@Facesniff: This is what I'm talking about. No. I don't give a shit. The game doesn't have you walk around and brutally torture ethnic groups. It's a video game, and I'm not going to be offended by something so trivial.
@Popfrogs: A catcall on the street is an overexaggeration, but trust me, there's still a fair bit of anti-Semitism out there. See: Mel Gibson. But whatever.
Hashbrown Hunter @ Nov 11th 2008 6:24AM
Agreed with both Feep and Marty. I'm Muslim, and right now we're definitely viewed as public enemy #1. But when I play a game featuring terrorists, watch an episode of 24, or see a documentary about the Iraq War, I'm not really that offended. Just like you said Feep, the people who show other religions in a bad light are usually uneducated and wrong about the subject.
@ Popfrogs: I do once in a while get called out for being Muslim. Once I was at the post office and this thick-accented Hispanic lady came up to me and said "Get out of our country" and walked away. That is not an exaggeration.
Vincent Avatar @ Nov 12th 2008 10:28AM
Actually, Popfrogs, it's more common than you think.
My brother studied abroad in England last year and--despite being a hulking fellow--was often called a number of nasty names because he looked Jewish (curly hair and a beard is apparently enough, if you're wearing a hat and a trenchcoat).
I would, of course, like to qualify that everyone is liable to be called something at some point in time because of the way they look or what they think. Doesn't make it right, mind, but we're certainly not, as a people, all holding hands and singing Kumbaya, with our prejudices left far behind.
Ichi the One @ Nov 10th 2008 4:10PM
Most of the German army during WW2 probably didn't commit any heinous deeds except fighting the war itself. There were probably a limited number of truly evil 'Nazi' soldiers. The same is true in Japan. Some Japanese just fought for their nation, but others raped & pillaged many areas in China & Korea. The worst war crimes of Japan during WW2 are equivalent to the worst war crimes of Nazi Germany.
I don't think any game has shown the true folly & humanity of war, you never see a fraction of the horrors that exist in actual war.
Maybe they should make a game where you start with no weapon and are bombed and then you can never play the game again because your character has died.
Hamflank @ Nov 10th 2008 4:40PM
"Most of the German army during WW2 probably didn't commit any heinous deeds except fighting the war itself."
A majority of the Germans committed a heinous deed when they put Hitler with his fascist regime in office.
"Some Japanese just fought for their nation..."
The Nanking Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre) actually took place before the start of the second world war.
It is not as if these people didn't know what their country had done when they went to war.
If your country would commit crimes against humanity on such a vast scale as the Germans and Japanese did during WWII, would you still fight for your country?
Intentless @ Nov 10th 2008 5:02PM
I see the japenese the same as the Germans. (Note I am a German born american raised individual.) They fought for their country as any American would for America. They may not have agreed with all of it and half of the atrocities they were not told of. Also it is a tough choice of fight for your country or your entire family will be killed.
In regards to Hitler coming into power the German people were in the worst economic status ever and desperate for relief. This Austrian comes in says I will make all your problems go away and he gained power. No one knew his true intentions and by the time they came to light it was far too late to do anything. Not all Germans were Nazis and not all Nazis were willing participants.
Haggard @ Nov 10th 2008 5:10PM
Because *obviously* when Hitler was in the election his main platform was "I'm going to slaughter in the most inhuman possible way millions of innocent Jews and Slavs".
When you're gripped by an economic crisis so harsh that bundles of money are treated as worthless children's toys, and there's only extreme parties who might have a chance of getting your country out, nobody is really going to care about racist views (especially when at that time, the entire west was busy treating black people as sub-human).
And once Hitler started doing his evil thing, late into his reign, it was completely impossible for anyone in Germany, no matter their status or position, to criticise or work against him.
blerg @ Nov 10th 2008 5:11PM
+1
Haggard @ Nov 10th 2008 5:12PM
That was @Hamflank btw
Lone Starr @ Nov 10th 2008 5:25PM
"nobody is really going to care about racist views."
So isn't it still the fault of the people then for electing Hitler? Hitler could NOT have come to power without 1)the consent of the people and 2)the appeasement of the Allies (see the remilitarization of the Rhineland, annexation of Austria, and Sudetenland).
"And once Hitler started doing his evil thing, late into his reign, it was completely impossible for anyone in Germany, no matter their status or position, to criticise or work against him."
Not true. Two examples that come to mind are Claus von Stauffenberg and Oskar Schindler.
That being said, this is the entire problem with the article:
"A last level, perhaps, set on Monday, August 6, 1945. A view through the eyes of a civilian on the streets of Hiroshima at 8:15 am."
If you don't go past five minutes, your arguments are severely flawed. You don't know what the rest of the game is like and you don't intend to find out. This post exists to get hits and, unfortunately, it worked.
James @ Nov 10th 2008 5:37PM
Maybe he wouldn't but statistically he's likely to, as are you and me. Have you ever read the notes from the Nuremberg trials? or have you studied the propaganda and fear mongering that went on in Germany. The organised beatings and torturing that the far right committed and blamed on the left? Consider all the aspects of the history, the shame placed on them for the war. Consider that almost all developed nations have committed massive atrocities. I guess I'm technically British and my country murdered millions.
If you look at any of the psychological testing you'll find that cross culturally there is variance but in all nations a large percentage (above 50%) of people are willing to take the life of another in certain circumstances just because someone asked them to. The Germans are evil because they elected Hitler? Then what about France, America and England who were largely to blame for them doing so?
Erik Stroud @ Nov 10th 2008 5:39PM
I know what you mean. When people say they did by putting Hitler in office, you do realize that in times of conflict, people go to who they think has the most power. Or, whoever they fear most. So, I'm sure some just wanted to live on, not that they particularly hated Jews, blacks, gypsies, etc. Like now, if there was a war in America, we would follow who we feared or thought was most powerful.
endo23 @ Nov 10th 2008 6:44PM
"If your country would commit crimes against humanity on such a vast scale as the Germans and Japanese did during WWII, would you still fight for your country?"
Well, if you're asking Americans I guess the answer would be yes, since millions of our citizens fought the Civil War despite the crime against humanity that was slavery. If you look at any world power's history you'll find abuse and inhumanity and tyranny. It's not limited to Japan or Germany or World War II. Speaking of which, where's our Civil War game? Maybe people wouldn't take so kindly to the idea of choosing North or South and killing your virtual countrymen...
finaldarklord @ Nov 10th 2008 8:08PM
Protip: The Civil War wasn't "about" slavery. That was only one part of it. Crack open a text book that wasn't given to you in 5th grade, kthx.
Matt @ Nov 10th 2008 11:12PM
The History Channel and Activision made a Civil War game, and frankly, I have no issue with shooting virtual representations of my countrymen. It's a game, nothing more.
otarumx @ Nov 11th 2008 1:37AM
Some American soldiers did heinous things in Vietnam and no one says that The American Army was evil.
James Lockwood @ Nov 11th 2008 9:06AM
I think what many fail to realise is that history is written after the fact.
Will the soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan be seen in 50 years time as we see the Nazis now.
History is written by the victor. It's all well and good saying the German people should have 'done something' but what could they do.
*Directed at the person complaining about the Germans voting for Hitler*
Californian @ Nov 12th 2008 8:32AM
@Hamflank
All I have to say is, as in the post, the friggin bombing of Dresden:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
baby sea tuna @ Nov 10th 2008 4:11PM
While I can't relate on a personal level, I also have no interest in playing this game.
...but mainly because it doesn't look very good.
Solidarity!
Markez @ Nov 10th 2008 10:22PM
I'm with you, looks like a snoozefest.
And personally, in my opinion, as heartless as it sounds, this kind of write-up and the comments that follow, are as pointless and stupid as the fervor that ensues in any joystiq article that in any small way ties in politics.
I had to read that moron Owen Good's article on the same thing on Kotaku and was thankful at the time that I didn't have to see anything similar here. Oh well.
copa @ Nov 10th 2008 4:11PM
Sorry, James. N'Gai Croal already found out that if you try to express your personal, heartfelt reactions related to race and violence in a videogame, then you are scum.
Prepare to be flamed by a thousand adolescents.