Major Nelson confirms recent Xbox Live bans
Microsoft continues its war against enemy solders, with Xbox Live's Major Nelson confirming the latest round of shock and "Aww, I've been disconnected!" banishment. "In our continued effort to keep gameplay safe and secure for our community of more than 14 million members," he said, "Microsoft has taken action against a small percentage of Xbox 360 consoles that have been illegally modified in order to play pirated games." This small percentage of players, who in their actions voided their Xbox 360 warranties and breached Xbox Live's terms of service, have been booted off the console's online platform. Clearly, the best way to be a pirate in Microsoft's realm is to slap an eye patch on your NXE avatar.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
deaftly @ Nov 12th 2008 12:20PM
Ninja's win again!
Heh (Mr. ESC, living in the hearts of us all) @ Nov 12th 2008 12:32PM
Those damn ninjas being all stealth and shit.
But seriously, nice to finally see some of the pirates being told to GTFO until they buy games lol.
kaneda @ Nov 12th 2008 1:36PM
I have no remorse about pirating games, because I only pirate shitty games like Fusion Frenzy 2, Jumper, and the Halo series.
Mohulis @ Nov 12th 2008 2:19PM
@ kaneda
If the only games you pirate are "shitty games" then why bother? They are obviously appealing enough to try them out, so why not rent them first and purchase them if you like it enough? Pirating "shitty games" seems a bit silly to me :P
kaneda @ Nov 12th 2008 2:27PM
I was mostly making a joke. Truth is, I would rent games only if the cost to rent was deducted from the total cost of the game should I decide to purchase it. I've purchased every game I've beaten, which isn't many compared to how many I've downloaded, got bored with after a couple days, and never played again. I'm not justifying why I break the law, but I'm also not paying $60 to own a piece of shit like jumper. I'd sooner just not buy games than I would risk wasting money on something I didn't enjoy.
Mohulis @ Nov 13th 2008 9:10PM
Mostly fair enough I suppose. Rental cost going towards the price of the game would be kind of nice. But I see the point of rentals as a way to try games you might not normally play or to play games that simply don't have replay value.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 2:45PM
kaneda- you cant pay me to play jumper.
let alone waste time pirating it.
or even chance legal issues or account closure.
why even bother pirating worthless games ??
kaneda @ Nov 12th 2008 3:13PM
Your assumption is that i know a game is trash without trying it out. Well, Jump could be an exception. But for example, I had no intention of purchasing Puzzle Quest when it first came out, but then I got hooked on the demo and I liked it enough to buy it. If a game doesn't have a demo, and I don't want to pay to try it, my options in order of preference are #1 download it, #2 don't buy it #3 buy it and risk it being trash.
There are many caveats to this discussion, but my basic argument is I spend money on things I want to own. I don't pay money to play guitar hero at the best buy display, and I don't pay money to coop GoW2 at my friends house. I'll make an exception for good arcade games, but only because I can't reasonable own them and no viable alternative exist.
To people that think that guys like me are hurting the industry, I won't say that you are 100% wrong because there is no doubt an impact. But the industry is also hurting itself. Publicly owned and traded game companies that make trash like Jump rely on people that will by the game not on it's own merits but it's name recognition. Many games that are made are not made to be good but just made to be sold to any sap willing to buy it. Nintendo 3rd parties are a good example of this phenomena. Pirates are merely a symptom of this. There are 3 types of pirates. Those like me who don't mind investing in a good game but refuse to risk investing in a bad one. Those that can afford to buy the game but don't want to. And those that cannot afford to buy the game whether they want to or not. When all is said an done, what percentage of pirated games do you think would have actually been bought without the possibility to pirate it?
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 3:35PM
its called gamefly and blockbuster game pass.
lol..
just admit you want games for free and feel good when you get one over on the "system" lol.
these justifications by pirates are funny.
game pirates obvisouly want to play the game they are seeking, because there is interest.
if you were unable to pirate the game, you would have no choice but to buy it or not play the game.
trust me most of the basement dwelling, vampire like, live with mom after college crowd that pirates games would FOLD and buy the game.
(sorry the stereotype was offbase.. lol)
you cant be more dumb.
just look at the music industry.
now that we can pirate songs, CD sales have declined every year since napster and etc programs started...
music stores have closed down and soon music will be bought online, in low quality mp3 DRM form.
sorry buddy the pirates make any industry worse.
why do u think the PC version of video games waits until months after the console release??
when we know a game can be downloaded for free online, more people will jump on that which greatly affects the game industry.
look most of these game companies are not making money and actually losing money. EA, THQ all lose moeny every quarter. they dont make money.
so when a few games do great that doesnt mean that the industry is rich and its ok to steal from them.
kaneda @ Nov 12th 2008 3:49PM
If I wanted games for free, I wouldn't have over 50 games that I paid for between the 3 systems I own. If you want to discuss the merits of my argument, you are free to address it directly. Telling me that renting games on gamefly is better than pirating, in terms of how it affects the industry is a weak argument. The companies get just as much profit from a rent as they do from a pirate, which is to say, none. This is why you hear discussion about DLC game bosses and ending, because the industry is pissed that all the money is in rental and used sales. These legitimate markets 'hurt' the industry just as much as the pirates do if not more, and the exist for the same reason, because people don't want to pay $60 for games like jumper.
kaneda @ Nov 12th 2008 3:53PM
And I believe it would be more correct to say "You can't be dumber."
But what would I know? I probably 'more dumb' that you.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 4:09PM
1) used music stores did not hurt the music industry.
2) music rental companies (zune pass, etc) do not hurt the music industry.
3) music pirates COMPLETELY hurt the music industry.
somebody that goes to gamestop and buys a used copy of final fantasy 12 is still making a purchase and helping the general gaming industry. the game companies rely on stores like gamestop to stock their new games and have midnight launches. these sales help keep those stores in business that the industry relies on.
and that person that bought a used copy of ff12 at gamestop will have a higher chance of purchasing ff13 new than somebody that went online and downloaded ff12 for free. they will go online and download ff13 for free.
youre justifications are funny and so wrong.
if those "legitimate" markets hurt the game industry the game industry would lobby to remove them or try to make it illegal.
gamestop would not stay in business only selling new games. they need used games sales too. the game industry doesnt want gamestop to close.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 4:18PM
and the game companies do get something when a game is rented at blockbuster or gamefly. do you think before you type? or just blah type?
blockbuster and gamefly purchase thousands of copies of these games which generate close to a million dollars per big game release to the game companies.
thousands of people downloading the game for free earns them no money.
whats $ 15 per month to you to play any game available legally with the disc version. and able to play those games online?
u purchasing 50 games (most probably not worth the purchase) doesn't give you or any of us the LEGAL RIGHT to download other games for free.
its still illegal and wrong.
Sheppy (of the Fidlious Clan of Wong) @ Nov 12th 2008 5:50PM
sk8erboi,
Do you actually research your stats to take RIAA claims as sufficiently accurate because a man in a nice suit said it in court? I ask because you're running off a few misunderstood or blatantly deceptive facts.
1. CD sales actually were NOT on a decline since the introduction of Napster. In fact, CD sales were on a RISE during that period. So where did the decline statement come from? Because it was never stated in court that CDs were on a decline but rather "album sectors" were on a decline. What album sectors were getting hurt by napster? Cassette Tapes. Yes... a sector that has been seeing a decline for 6 years prior to Napsters introduction was the stat used to shut down Napster.
2. CD sales have started seeing a decline since the digital distribution model stopped being out of their goddam mind. During the time the RIAA was using lack of sales through dd channels to back up their claims that piracy is hurting the music industry, MP3.com was the only outlet that had rights to roughly 25,000 major studio tracks. So that's a sizable collection in some peoples minds BUT also keep in mind purchasing a full album this way was $25, individual songs were $2.50. MORE than CD singles at the time carrying an average of $2 price tag. The industry, in essence, was charging you more for saving them the money of manufacturing and shipping. And guess what, you didn't even OWN those. You were paying $25 for music that had to be verified everytime you tried to play it.
3. The music industry is actually thriving in todays market despite the claims that piracy is ruining the industry. How? Digital Dist. Take a look at iTunes and how much sales they account for. Now look at Amazon's MP3 service who's daily deals manages to sell older stagnant albums by the hundreds every day. The only reason why the Music Industry is still in danger is because they STILL don't have the adapted business strategies beyond what was put in place towards the death of the 8track. In other words, they are dying because this whole "internet monies" is a lost concept and they continue to focus on brick and mortar.
4. A game purchased used is NOT money given back to the industry in any way, shape, or form. Unless that NEW consumer purchases DLC (wow, the emphasis suddenly makes sense... golly gee), that developer sees nothing from a used game purchase. NOTHING. Why do you think moves like free upgrades to limited editions on preorders, free maps, or free songs on NEW game purchases are becoming the rage this holiday season?
5. THQ, EA, Midway, and many other companies are being hit hard by limited consumer spending, not Piracy like you claim. Spending is limiting everywhere. Crashing economy and a citizenry concerned how they are going to pay off the $700 billion paycheck for failing banks will do that to your economy. After all, despite gas being under $2 a gallon, consumer spending on fuel is down 4.9% from last year this same period. By your logic, this means someone has figured out how to download free gas off PirateBay.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 6:09PM
sheppy-
record companies do not care if an album is sold in CD form or digital form. they just want to sell music.
the fact is that TOTAL MUSIC sales have declined.
u realize the entire music store industry collapsed and shut down? aside from a handful of virgin megastores.
the figures they use to show the public are total sales from the big companies and they have declined dramatically over the years.
yeah sheppy pirating games doesnt hurt the game industry at all.. keep dreaming... haha.
taking something for free that costs millions of dollars to develop is A-OK, and doesnt hurt the industry at all... dumb.. dumb...
2 hearts vote down
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 6:11PM
sheppy:
http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf
university of North Carolina analysis on file sharing
( not that attorney in the suit)
+ there are thousands of charts and articles on this on the internet.
Sackolantern PSN ID: johnnynumber5 @ Nov 12th 2008 6:44PM
"if those "legitimate" markets hurt the game industry the game industry would lobby to remove them or try to make it illegal"
Make it illegal to sell games on the second hand market?
I guess you haven't heard about digital downloads being the future of the industry. Game companies are very unhappy that Gamestop is making record profits mostly off selling used games. There was a rumor that video game companies would put DRM restrictions on each game so that it could only be played on one specific console. Similar to what you see with PC games. But, it didn't happen and probably never will because digital downloads are on the horizon.
As the line between computers and consoles continue to blur I would expect that within 20 years all video game purchases will be made via digital services like Live, Wii Ware, Steam & the PSN.
Read these Skate
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/31577/GameStop-Digital-downloads-an-insignificant-threat
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/gamestop-digital-distribution-wont-overtake-retail-until-2020-at-earliest/?biz=1
If someone wanted to trade in a game I would recommend a Block Buster Game Rush (usually in larger cities) for trade in credit or selling on e-bay if you need cash. The sales of used games does hurt the industry in my opinion because it keeps gamers from buying the game new and giving the money to the people who made the game- instead, it goes to Gamestop who is nothing more than a shady middleman.
Not really debating the effects of piracy but buying a used game at gamestop or pirating it is essentially the same thing to the developer.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 7:30PM
johnny- good additions-
do u agree that pirating hurts the gaming industry?
and it mostly affects FAIR online gameplay, which is what gaming is all about to me when online.
i just saw your opinion on pirating vs. used gamestop purchases.
i feel that when somebody goes to gamestop and buys a game whether used or new, they are essentially spending money on games and keeping up that spirit.
once somebody starts pirating games I BELIEVE they are more apt to continue to pirate more games and thus purchase fewer and fewer games.
EVERYBODY that has bought a used game at gamestop has at least bought 1 game new before.
2020 is 12 years away we will see 3 consoles before that time frame.. digital distribution wont overtake the game industry soon... by that time we will probably have 100 terrabyte HDD. give or take.. lol.
but i get what your saying about the developer not directly benefiting from the used game sale.
Sackolantern PSN ID: johnnynumber5 @ Nov 12th 2008 9:12PM
sk8
I guess it works both ways. Many people that pirate games are just doing so to have a chance to try out a game they otherwise would have never played. I stream movies all the time from the internet but I still purchase movies on Blu-Ray or DVD when I know it's one I like. Similar with games. I download all kinds of PSP & DS ISO's of games I would otherwise never have a chance of playing. Sometimes I play a game and like it so then I buy it. However, there are times that I just buy a game I know I want or will like - Star Ocean, God Of War, Metal Gear, Ninja Gaiden etc etc ...
I don't think that everyone who pirates always only pirates. Case and point is someone like myself. I understand not everyone is like that but it does go both ways.
The 360 is really a different case. The main reason I hacked my PSP & DS was to play older ROMs on the go and the ISO thing just happened later. The 360 is only internally modded to play burnt games.
Here is what I'm getting at - I would have never played Cabelas big game on my PSP - certainly never would have bought it. Now, after downloading it and trying it out I am considering purchasing the actual game. It really does work both ways. I would say the majority of times people never buy the games. It's really up to the companies to have ways to give us the functionality we want out of the box or make them hack proof. Allot of PSP & Ds mods are to add funtionality not just games. Not so on the 360.
This is one reason why Blu-Ray is good for the industry. As far as I know it still hasn't been cracked.
You see sk8 ... we can act civil and have a conversation ... no need to always be a dick about everything ... I honestly don't care. If you want to be cool - I'm OK. If you want o be a constant dick hole fucktard - I'm OK. It's easier to have a community where everyone is nice to each other instead of acting like Bitches. Not everything is a malicious intent like you percieve it. People make honest mistakes. If you would want to be treated the way you always act towards me then you are one sick puppy. It's just easier to be civil.
j.howlett @ Nov 12th 2008 12:25PM
i heard something about this yesterday.
Erluti @ Nov 12th 2008 12:28PM
"enemy solders"
excellent pun! good show!
Chin-Poh @ Nov 12th 2008 12:33PM
One thing I am curious about, when these players are banned from XBL, are they only banned from online play or banned entirely, as in they also can't download anything from the Marketplace?
LiqwidZero @ Nov 12th 2008 12:36PM
Banned from XBL. I think they get an IP ban.
Badboy1979 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:38PM
I believe it's a ban from everything online ... as in, even when you do the little XBL connection test it throws out errors codes saying you can't connect.
Can't say I feel sorry for them, tho.
sinai @ Nov 12th 2008 12:46PM
the console itself is banned from XBOX LIVE including marketplace and online gaming. you can still get another xbox and your marketplace account will still be active.
and with the price of the xbox dipping to an incredible $199, will the modders care? at sixty bucks a game, getting three and a half games for free is worth the cost of admission alone.
CTC XBL-supapaypamawio PSN-ctclaw @ Nov 12th 2008 1:51PM
I highly doubt most modders even care. They pay $200 and get a new 360, they still get to play the newest games early, and any game that they actually care about playing online with they can buy for their unmodded 360. The savings are there for people to easily justify it.
Dan CiTi @ Nov 12th 2008 5:35PM
There are not many games worth $60 on the 360. If at all.
sinai @ Nov 13th 2008 2:06AM
so the only games worth $60 are little big planet, and MGS4?
just because you can't afford two consoles on your $6/hr job, doesn't give you the right to go on the internet and start trolling.
Obie @ Nov 12th 2008 12:36PM
For a second there I read: "Banned 14 million members".
Phew, scared me, I thought the Banpocalypse had come. hehe
Latin Trident @ Nov 12th 2008 12:41PM
Hey Obie, what is that picture of yours? It makes me laugh whenever I see it!
Anyways, yeah a 14 Million Ban would be scary. That would be like NY being banned!
Obie @ Nov 12th 2008 12:47PM
It's the "Boomer" zombie from "Left 4 Dead". ;)
Tom18230 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:37PM
They won't be allowed to connect to xbox live, at all.
Tom18230 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:37PM
That was in response to obie, damn comment system.
Fernando Rocker @ Nov 12th 2008 12:41PM
I'm all in favor of homebrew, on any system, but not for pirating, specially new games.
Sackolantern PSN ID: johnnynumber5 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:43PM
Do you think pirating old games is OK?
sinai @ Nov 12th 2008 12:48PM
sometimes, the only way to get old games is to pirate them.
Fernando Rocker @ Nov 12th 2008 12:49PM
Well... I wanted to play a SNES game last weekend, and the only way to play it is with a ROM.
The game is not available on Virtual Console, and is very expensive on ebay.
And is not that the publisher is going to lose money, because the game is not being sold anymore.
Sackolantern PSN ID: johnnynumber5 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:55PM
So you don't have an issue with pirating games so long as they are expensive on the secondary market and not availble for purchase via digital downloads.
The thing is it's still theft. Same as stealing a candy bar from a gas station, pirtating a PC game, movie, CD or streaming a live PPV event. Don't try to justify it or make excuses for it. It is what it is - stealing.
I do it as well with older roms on my PSP, actual PSP games sometimes, movies, music etc etc ... But, it is what it is. Don't try to justify or rationalize the behavior. It's still stealing.
Shagittarius @ Nov 12th 2008 12:58PM
The games industry should have a quota...once you buy a certain amount of games per month you get the rest for free.
Fernando Rocker @ Nov 12th 2008 12:59PM
I'm not trying to justify anything, bu what if I want to play an old game that is not available for purchase in any form?
Shagittarius @ Nov 12th 2008 1:00PM
Sackolantern: Its not the same as stealing a candy bar from a gas station.
It would be like stealing a copy of that candy bar...the original candy bar can still be sold and is not effected by the copy being sold...so no its not exactly the same thing as stealing.
AwesomeTown @ Nov 12th 2008 1:15PM
I agree with Fernando. It falls into the "abandonware" category. Ebay doesn't count because it is auctioning, not retail. Quote from Abandonia.com:
"Since the software is no longer sold or supported, the copyright holders are not directly harmed in any way. This is why abandonware sites are, for the most part, ignored by the law."
All the copyright holder has to do, is put it back up for purchase somewhere in one form or another. Then pay for it.
P.S. Don't pirate games you can buy.
sinai @ Nov 12th 2008 1:17PM
legally speaking, if someone threw out a candy bar into the garbage, it is yours to keep and eat or do whatever you want with it.
if a company no longer publishes a game, then you can make an argument that says the company no longer finds the product desirable. even if i desired to pay money for it, they would not accept it.
it's not a perfect argument, and there's a lot of gray area, but if people won't take money for it, they refuse to sell it, and can be duplicated without causing monetary harm to the developers/publishers, then i say it's fair game.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Nov 12th 2008 1:30PM
What's the game?
(Not bitching about you getting the ROM, just asking)
kaneda @ Nov 12th 2008 1:30PM
In order to 'steal' something, doesn't it have to belong to someone? If a company that used to make a game goes kaput and no one inherits the rights to that companies titles, then are you really stealing their game that they don't publish anymore and no one owns? The answer, much as the law, is arbitrary. Doesn't mean it isn't important, or isn't amoral or what ever...just arbitrary.
Fernando Rocker @ Nov 12th 2008 1:37PM
Is an old game called Dream TV, for the SNES.
It's a bad game, and I bought the game like 15 years ago (but I don't have the cartridge anymore) because I thought that the cover looked good.
=p
Vcize @ Nov 12th 2008 1:38PM
"legally speaking, if someone threw out a candy bar into the garbage, it is yours to keep and eat or do whatever you want with it."
Well, this is more like someone sold the candy bar to someone else, and rather buy it from that someone else second hand, you're just stealing it instead.
John Z @ Nov 12th 2008 1:53PM
There's an interesting difference here that some folks might have glossed over: what if a game is out of print, the developer clearly wants people to still play and buy it, but is being blocked by other parties? Take Psychonauts, for example (YES I KNOW IT'S A BAD EXAMPLE, I'm getting to that). Double Fine wants people to play it, but it's been out of production for a very long time and the last few copies are just now entering retail channels. No more can be made for two reasons: the machines that it came out on are no longer current (ignoring the PC version for now-- YES I AM GETTING TO THAT, SHUT UP), and Majesco would probably refuse authorization to make more physical copies.
Now (YES NOW), digital distribution changes things somewhat-- Psychonauts is available as a direct download (GameTap, Xbox Originals, etc.). Better examples, ironically, are the Virtual Console or XBLA. There are tons of games that people have repeatedly said are worth the money once more-- let's go with, as an arbitrary example, The Simpsons Arcade. MS might be sitting on a fully-functional, perfect emulation of the game running immaculately on the 360, but there's no way they could release it due to the fact that the game has tons of rights issues that need to be cleared up. Some games have it easier than others; obviously licensed games have layers of legal red tape in their way. (Which is why everyone was taken by surprise when TMNT Arcade hit XBLA.)
Whether or not the developer wants to sell their game, but is blocked by a third party, is enough justification for non-paying emulation is an exercise I leave to the reader.
DWells55 @ Nov 12th 2008 1:59PM
The problem is that these bans aren't just banning pirates, they're doing it solely by if MS believes you tampered with the DVD drive in anyway. One of the current theories is that if you booted the system without the drive's SATA cable connected to the motherboard (often done to give the drive power while connecting it to a PC to flash it), the system flags this as ban criteria. Also, abnormal read rates and disc boot failures may also be getting flagged.
As a result, it's possible for innocent people to get banned, as they have been in previous ban waves. I'm particularly concerned about the Xbox I gave to my younger brother. I purchased it for $50 after a friend of mine dropped a flat screen TV on it (luckily not damaging the TV). The impact dented the case and hit right above the DVD drive, causing it to not be able to read any games.
I disassembled and repaired the system simply by realigning the laser and hammering out the dent in the case of the drive which was preventing it from properly holding a disc. However, I did once accidentally run the system without properly reconnecting the DVD drive's SATA cable. Additionally, the system often fails to properly boot games due to some still underlying damage in the drive.
As a result, I'm rather concerned the system may be banned. I think it would be rather unfair for me to be banned because I wanted to save money and repair an electronic that was out of warranty.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 12th 2008 3:00PM
pirating will always be ILLEGAL yes.
however there are times when it can be justified.
if an old game has no owner and we have no way of purchasing the game, who is getting hurt?
is a game supposed to be locked away for good??
take the police example:
detectives and police sometimes have to break the law to infiltrate illegal organizations and make big arrests that help the overall community, however this is seen as justified to help the overall community, yet still illegal, and if the police gets caught in the act, no arrests will be made.