World of Goo has 90% piracy rate
Carmel informs us that he's seen torrent sites with "500 seeders and 300 leechers" and has received emails from people who initially stole the game but ended up buying the full product; unsurprisingly, they make up a "very small percentage." He concludes, "We're doing ok, though. We're getting good sales through WiiWare, Steam, and our website. Not going bankrupt just yet!"
Although Carmel takes it in stride, this is probably a good time for us to reiterate that the charming and fun World of Goo was developed by 2D Boy, which consists of Carmel and his design partner, Kyle Gabler. We want more goo, so please support the 2D boys properly.
[Thanks, Luis]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
LeadBoxx @ Nov 13th 2008 12:51PM
I bought this game on the Wii and its not bad. I feel good to know that I am not part if the problem on this one.
Heh (Mr. ESC, living in the hearts of us all) @ Nov 13th 2008 1:54PM
Same here. Proud to say I bought this off steam.
kaneda @ Nov 13th 2008 3:35PM
I take back what i said about piracy not hurting the industry. I love this game and i will pay for it tonight.
BananaBoat @ Nov 13th 2008 7:13PM
This is what I was talking about yesterday. Oh sure you aren't hurting EA when you pirate Madden, but if you pirate something like World of Goo, you are seriously screwing the developer over. I'm not particularly interested in this game (The so-so review on the Totally Rad Show convinced me that I don't need to waste the money) but it's a good example of when piracy literally can send a developer out of business, which hopefully won't happen in this case.
If you pirated this, you better man up and buy it....or it will come back to bite you in the ass...probably......Karma is a bitch I'm told.
Dakar @ Nov 13th 2008 12:51PM
I love when developers completely make up piracy numbers.
Delgado @ Nov 13th 2008 12:58PM
And how do you support your claim? Oh right, by pulling it out of your ass.
They're the devs and have sales figures and probably other forms of information to back their claims - you're just a troll.
You're probably one of the douche's that pirated it.
Marty @ Nov 13th 2008 12:59PM
Is that going to be your new (and lame) reason to pirate games?
lwelyk @ Nov 13th 2008 1:00PM
Probably the same place the World of Goo guy got his.
BPMOmega [gamertag] @ Nov 13th 2008 3:07PM
They compared the number of sales to the number of unique IP addresses connecting to the leaderboards. The latter greatly outweighs the former.
While SOME IPs could be explained by dynamic IPs, or people using their bought copy on multiple PCs... There's no way that makes up for the vast difference.
Hardly what I'd call making up piracy figures.
Xizer @ Nov 13th 2008 4:43PM
Somehow I doubt that 9 in 10 people are smart enough to know how to pirate this game. World of Goo is a simple 2D game - the kind of game that attracts casual gamers in droves. Casual gamers don't know how to pirate.
The piracy rate of World of Goo is likely
Ethan @ Nov 13th 2008 5:20PM
Just did a quite isohunt search - he's not lying.
Ridgecity @ Nov 13th 2008 6:28PM
torrents make about 70% of all the piracy on the internet. Looking at that makes a good estimate, if not lower that what's really happening.
I'm glad to have bought the game on Wiiware. It's fucking amazing and deserves a sequel.
samfish @ Nov 13th 2008 12:51PM
I plan to buy this eventually, but not until Nintendo lets me play games from my SD card.
Although I'll likely have to clear some space for when Cave Story comes out, since I won't wait on that!
But meh. I ain't pirating nothing. That's for douchebags.
John Z @ Nov 13th 2008 1:00PM
Hear hear. I'd have been on this earlier, were it not for the enormous number of games I have yet to finish. (Cave Story is going to be a day-one pickup for me, too, though.)
``` @ Nov 13th 2008 12:51PM
that sucks balls
he probably spent his life savings making that game
Haggard @ Nov 13th 2008 12:54PM
Yet to play this one due to complete lack of finance but the glowing reviews make it very tempting (and no, I never pirate)
Demaar @ Nov 13th 2008 4:51PM
Ditto. I'm quite keen on playing the game too, but I had enough Wii points to get two games (MM2 & MM9) or it. I chose to get two games. Ain't gonna be getting anymore Wii points for a while too, since the cards are hard for me to get.
Shame they didn't go with the usual 10 buck pricing.
FallenCow @ Nov 13th 2008 12:55PM
While it sucks that his game is being pirated so much, I think 90% is a pretty bogus number to throw out there. It's conjecture at best.
Lars @ Nov 13th 2008 1:30PM
I don't think it's bogus because nearly everyone I know pirates games and doesn't see anything wrong with it. I'm the only one who refuses to. But it is worth mentioning that probably 80% of the people who pirated it wouldn't have bought it at all anyways.
FallenCow @ Nov 13th 2008 1:36PM
I agree lots of people pirate but because of things like that 80% of people probably wouldn't have bought the game anyway, it's hard to quantify the rate of piracy. I think he threw out a number like 90% just to generate some buzz for his game.
DiRT @ Nov 13th 2008 2:13PM
I love how no one flaming the comments recognizes the difference between "piracy rate" and "lost sales" and how the developer isn't making claims like every pirated copy is a lost sale.
Haggard @ Nov 13th 2008 3:36PM
Indeed. Crysis sold about 1-2 million copies, yet they claimed that the piracy rate was about 1:30.
So if nobody had come up with the idea of internet piracy, Crysis would have sold 60 million copies?
Bakkster @ Nov 13th 2008 3:45PM
So are you saying that if they wouldn't have bought the game, it's okay for them to pirate it, because it's not a lost sale? How do you know they wouldn't have bought it, because they said so? If they hadn't bought it, what other game might they have bought?
While it's true that you can't necessarily assume all those pirated copies are lost sales, it doesn't make it acceptable to pirate games you weren't planning to purchase.
FallenCow @ Nov 13th 2008 3:49PM
It's funny how every time piracy comes up people start acting holier-than-thou and can't have a legitimate discourse about it. No one is saying that it's ok to pirate; they're simply stating that it's not valid for publishers/producers of the content to count all of those people as lost revenue.
How many times have you d/led music, movies, or tv shows only to not have time to watch them?
Dante G @ Nov 13th 2008 12:55PM
I downloaded this game via WiiWare yesterday and it's pretty good. It's easy to pick up and play and has nice multiplayer. My wife played it with me and we had a good time with it. Totally worth the $15.
The only bad thing is that it took over 300 blocks of my Wii's memory and I'll have to move some files if I want to download something else. Where's the storage solution Nintendo???
BPMOmega [gamertag] @ Nov 13th 2008 3:08PM
It's coming in Spring.
Davey Jay @ Nov 14th 2008 1:35AM
While a "solution" is coming, it's not very good. Nintendo said that you'll be able to download games DIRECTLY to an SD card, but they said you still have to shuffle stuff around to play them. It's actually pretty lame. :(
Jack @ Nov 13th 2008 12:55PM
Pirating games has always really annoyed me.
I mean, how does one legitimize the through process of "Well, I don't want to pay for this game, so I'll just download it."
Don't give me that whole "Well, I never would have bought it in the first place" spiel. If you wouldn't have bought it in the first place -- you're not entitled to play it.
We bitch and moan about companies putting in draconian DRM features... failing to realize that the reason they have to do this is not because they want to, but instead because we keep stealing their shit.
And then there are those who say "I want to buy it, but I have to make sure it's work my $XX.XX first." Bullshit. Their are very few people who end up buying it.
I'm really curious to hear what the Joystiq community's solution to DRM would be -- remembering that there is absolutely no legitimate reason at all to steal someone's game.
343 Guilty Fart @ Nov 13th 2008 12:58PM
You're not giving it to me! Give it to me faster!
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 1:01PM
"Don't give me that whole "Well, I never would have bought it in the first place" spiel. If you wouldn't have bought it in the first place -- you're not entitled to play it."
I don't think anybody who pirates games feels like they're entitled to play them. They just don't care.
"We bitch and moan about companies putting in draconian DRM features... failing to realize that the reason they have to do this is not because they want to, but instead because we keep stealing their shit."
No, it's because DRM keeps people from selling games second hand. Anyone who would buy the game would have to buy it new. DRM is completely and totally useless at stopping or even hindering piracy. DRM has never caused anyone to buy a game instead of pirating it, but it certainly has caused people to pirate games instead of buying them.
"steal"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal
Sackolantern PSN ID: johnnynumber5 @ Nov 13th 2008 1:06PM
Well it is really up to the company to make sure the game is not pirated. I "pirate" stuff all the time online. Streaming movies from sites, audio, e-books, watching free PPV events and even downloading PSP & DS ISO files.
I fall into that category of people who pirate that end up buying the product if it's good. I understand I am not entitled to anything for free but if I like a movie I see online I will usually purchase it. I buy allot of stuff from TV shows, Blu-Rays, games, books and music. Having the ability to test run the product is what I use the pirating for. Not saying it's right or even trying to justify it but I do fit into that small minority of people who pirate things for a test run before purchasing them.
The only way to put a dent into piracy is to have draconian protections and restrictions on the content. In most cases if something is good it will sell.
I think that 90% number was pulled out of thin air in this case.
SKI @ Nov 13th 2008 1:16PM
From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal
"Steal, pilfer, filch and purloin mean to take from another without right or without detection. Steal may apply to any surreptitious taking of something and differs from the other terms by commonly applying to intangibles as well as material things ."
So pirating=stealing.
Muu @ Nov 13th 2008 1:50PM
But when the draconian locks are put in place, suddenly everyone makes it an issue to attack said safeguard mechanism, forgetting that it's there to try and protect something that took significant effort to make.
The mindset that 'pirating is OK/has little consequences' is what needs to change. People that've bought games regularly in the past hopefully realize the impact these have on the devs even if they are pirating (and putting up thin claims to legitimize their actions), but what about those just starting and coming into the hobby thinking that all games are free?
Japanimation is currently being supported by a small base of rabid fans willing to plunk down huge amounts of cash for DVDs. If the industry doesn't find a more effective way of getting money from viewers, once the paying base decreases to irrecoverable levels the industry as a whole is going to crash, screwing over both the paying and non-paying fanbase. Gaming has much more options for safeguards at its disposal, but left untouched I believe it'll eventually follow the same route.
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 2:17PM
Protip: When you pirate something, you're not taking it, you're copying it. It's like saying if I go into the Louvre and take a picture of the Mona Lisa, I'm an art thief.
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 3:09PM
Your down votes give me power! Your avoidance of the truth amuses me! More! MORE!
Nailio @ Nov 13th 2008 3:42PM
Robo, cmon dont be stupid. You pirate the game, and that takes out one sale they could of have. That's stealing
Bondtastic @ Nov 13th 2008 3:19PM
Roto, your analogy is false
If you go to a museum and copy the mona lisa, you did work to paint an exact replica. You own your own work that happens to be a copy of another piece of work. Same if you took a picture.
When you copy a game you are stealing because you are not doing work to recreate the object. You are taking the actual object. Software may not have a single physical state like a painting, but it is still the result of labor and creativity. Taking that without permission is still stealing.
Geist @ Nov 13th 2008 3:34PM
So you're saying the pirating groups have the right to pirate games, because they have to go through all the work to crack them? Metaphors don't work with pirating.
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 3:39PM
Yes, taking things without permission is stealing. When you copy something, though, you're not taking it, so it's not stealing.
I'm not saying it's not illegal or wrong, but it's not stealing.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 13th 2008 3:55PM
BUNCH OF FREAKING BUTT pirates is more like it.
i love how johnny for example says he hates gears 2 cheaters and the leaderboard cheat problems that were fixed, but then he says how he pirates and downloads media all the time... go figure.
you cant be a part of the problem and then later act as if you care about any solution.
so its ok to pirate bad media but not gears 2??
roto you are an idiot straight up, unless you live in a european state that doesn't have copyright laws...
copying copyrighted materials is illegal its in the language of the law regarding copyrighted materials and media.
gst @ Nov 13th 2008 3:58PM
So it may be true that DRM is not the best way to stop pirating, but it seems to be the only viable option.
With other forms of stealing, or really anything that society considers criminal and wishes to deter, there are two main ways of trying to hinder said action.
1. Prevent the action: This is what DRM attempts to do. Its a hassle for everyone who just wants to go about their lives honestly , and frankly, anyone that wants to steal something will eventually find a way in anyways.
2.Punish the criminals: This is arguably a much more effective deterrent. What is it that keeps your average criminally-minded fellow from just breaking into your house and taking your crap? No, it's not because your house is all that hard to get into, and it's not because they know you would be real sad. It's because they are likely to get caught and are likely to face jail time.
The problem with this deterrent is that it is so difficult to do. Firstly, it is tough to make the punishment fit; you can't just walk into a kid's house and drag him by the ear back to a store where he stole the game and make him return it - because he stole it online and he can't "return" it.
Second, pirating is so accepted now that people would cry foul if you started enforcing it in the same way as stealing... being as you would have to prosecute almost everyone. And even to identify pirates consistently would likely require a creepy Big Brother-type program wherein some legal entity is constantly monitoring your download activity.
With that in mind, DRM, while ridiculous at times, seems like it is just about the best anyone can come up with.
sk8monroe81 @ Nov 13th 2008 4:23PM
gst- whats a fair punishment though?
jail.. no..
we dont have enough jails in the US as it is and we are starting to release drug dealers early and etc...
fines and ruining credit if not paid is a good start.
percentage of fines paid goto the source of the stolen goods.
United States of Generica @ Nov 13th 2008 4:56PM
@ Roto13: it's not like copying the Mona Lisa
A fairer equivalent is riding the bus/train/plane and pirates are the ticket dodgers, "hey it's going there anyway" they say, but the rest of us pay for our tickets. Not only that, but they are also ripping off the devs, without whom there would be no games.
Pirates should be honest about what they are -- the excuses are pathetic and juvenile -- they are simply people who does not pay for things they use. Cheap cnuts.
World of Goo is a great game though.
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 5:26PM
So what exactly is someone who rides a train without paying stealing? What are they taking away from anyone?
#28 @ Nov 13th 2008 5:51PM
I'm gonna throw in with Roto on this one.
Bring on the downvotes!!!
United States of Generica @ Nov 13th 2008 7:33PM
Roto13: perfect. Thank you for proving my point!
Rususeruru @ Nov 13th 2008 8:05PM
toward Roto and others:
You're accessing content without compensating the artist. You are a thief, stealing an experience you hadn't paid for. It's like xeroxing a book, sure you've paid for access to the xerox machine and the paper but you aren't compensating the creator. You are essentially stealing a work.
You can argue semantics all you like but this is the true meaning of copyright: you should compensate the artist to own a copy of the work. By doing so you are encouraging others to create more works and enrich society; by not compensating the artist you are reducing the incentive to produce future goods. Also you're analogy of taking a photo of the Mona Lisa falls flat with digital media. You have an exact replica not a diminished reproduction of the work meaning your copy has the same value as the original.
YES PIRATES ARE KILLING THE INDUSTRY JUST AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE!!!!
And for anyone trying to argue "Well they're trying to spread an experience so even pirated software helps them achieve this goal" No, they are trying to earn money by doing something they enjoy. Sure games would exist if they were just trying to spread an experience but not as the rich multimedia experience we call video games today.
If you want to "try before you buy" download the demo here: http://www.worldofgoo.com/dl2.php?lk=demo . That's what demos are for, the 'trial' argument may work with other media but not here.
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 8:29PM
You can't steal an experience. That's dumb. That's not even a thing.
Rususeruru @ Nov 13th 2008 9:29PM
if you mean that an experience is intangible: yes you're correct but a lot of other "things" are also intangible and considering that one of the definitions of "thing" is "a special situation" that could also be interpreted as an experience for example a concert which is an experience and a special situation yeah I'd say it is a "thing"
What about an idea? An idea is also intangible but is also a "thing," but you are a jackass so I'm not going to continue arguing with you on this so hopefully someone will just start jacking your shit w/e there's no moral objection you have to theft so you clearly won't cry foul.
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 10:27PM
Way to have a temper tantrum.
I'm saying you can't steal something you can take away from someone else, and that's a fact. It's not theft and that's all there is to it. And if you'll rub the tears and snot off your face and look up a bit, you'll see that I never said piracy was ok or legal. In fact, I explicitly stated otherwise.