DS Daily: On preventing piracy

Actually, including stuff like manuals with required passwords and stuff work, but only until somebody puts them online.

Same with cheats against piracy protections.

Even a combination of both doesn't really work long.
Maybe let games have a code sorta like Key-codes used for pc software.

Or maybe requirement of individual confirming through wi-fi, though that would be unreasonable to have every NDS games forced to find some Wi-fi connection.

Personally, I'm happy to be a dirty stinkin' pirate, so the less protection, the better for me. XP

I own all the games I run on my flash cart. I could give up the cart any time, but I love the fact that I can back up my game saves, no chance of anything getting lost because of a glitch! I also adore Colors DS! Best little app for an artist like me!

There are good uses for flash cards, I hope thats what Nintendo had in mind when they came up with the DSi!

Maybe when people realize that pirating is NOW a part of life in this business.
You'll have to look at the whole picture here.
Most people that are pirating the games , most likely were never going to buy the game in the first place. However they did have to buy a DS unit to use the flash card with. So in reality, Nintendo did make profit on something that most likely wasnt going to bring them in a dime.
As to banning flash cards, that isn't going to stop people from buying them , will only increase the price of buying one , meaning those companys making them will only make more money. And will only hurt the honest people in the end.
The best way thing to do , make great games and a an acceptable cost and understand that close to all the people that use flashcards and pirate games, were never going to buy anything in the first place.

Books and such for reference/passwords inevitably interfere with the mobile or casual nature of the games.
Like Guitar hero for the DS a good method is to add a must have peripheral. As Pirate’s find it hard to replace these, although I have seen Stand alone Guitar hero grips for sale in numbers.
Unfortunately the only real means of clamping down on Piracy is online checks during/before play. However, I know of people who play pirate 360 games offline exclusively- So this has a limited effect.
As for the flash carts It's always been human nature to want a nd get things on the cheap rightly or wrongly. Maybe cheaper games would be the answer as the DS has such a large install base cheaper carts would make it harder to refuse the luxury of the real thing. As here in the UK prices are £20-£25 (ONLINE) Which is a lot for casual gamers.

When I dumped my copy of Chrono Trigger to my Cyclo DS, I didn't even have to do any cracking, it ran perfectly, so piracy checks failed.

The idea of including information not available in the rom itself is a moot-point, release groups would immediately know to simply package necessary information together with their releases.

The idea itself is nothing new, long ago we had code-wheels that included things such as two halves of Zool, that when matched onscreen reveal the necessary code to continue. But that's easy to convert to a text file!

My idea would be to reward a purchase rather than punish pirates. Far too often, the punishments affect the buyer rather than the thief. Think about those unskippable and annoying do not pirate ads on DVD. Had I pirated the movie, I would not be forced to watch this anti-piracy ad. I would offer collectible, such as figurines, to those who buy my product. If consumers feel respected by companies, they are less likely to steal. Valve treats their customers with respect and very few of their games are pirated to a large degree. On the other hand, Spore, the DRM leader, is one of the most pirated games of the year.

Digital Distribution and variable price.
Some people download roms because it's handy to have all games in a flash cart and all that, others because the games are very expensive and can't just pay XX for a game, right?

But what if someone can't pay XX but would pay X? there is no way you can ask nintendo to sell you a game for less money, so you download the "illegal" rom and they "lost" a sale.

In my opinion, the solution is as simple as accepting piracy in first place, then, emulate the illegal distribution system (witch is perfect, you search, you download, you play!) then gently ask for a monetary contribution on each person's possibilities... some people may pay $1, others $10... etc.

Yep, there will be always people who wont pay anything even if the can, but they are a minority. (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong...)

So that is my solution I think it is pretty simple and cheaper than expending lots on money on anti-piracy technology such as DRM and all that crap...

If I wanted my game not to be pirated, I would launch it only via Steam: at least it is so hard to pirate most don't even bother. For a console title, I would use no copy protection. The only decent copy protection is using a format that is hard to copy (Bluray until BD-Rs are cheap, HD-DVDs are a good format to use because nobody uses them) or with downloadable titles which require an account authentication to play (Steam). Traditional DRM and crypto mumbo jumbo never work.

The current issue of Escapist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/) is all about our favorite handheld, and one of the articles concerns rampant piracy. They point out that no one pirates Guitar Hero, because of the "dongle" required to play the game. Unfortunately, you can't ask everyone to put up with a separate dongle for every game, no matter how much it enhances the play. Still, it points out that any successful anti-piracy measures have to enhance the game for honest people.

Digital distribution on Steam is great. Any other digital distribution platform I'm not so hot on. I paid to download Spore on my PC but it will be useless if I want to install it on a newer PC down the road. It's basically like I paid 50$ for an extended rental.

For DS, digital distribution with something akin to the PSN would be nice but for handheld gaming I'm kind of partial to get the hard copy. To keep us from pirating they could either (i) lower the price of games or (ii) just give us extra incentives in the box to buy it. It's as simple as giving us a code for some downloadable wallpapers at their website or maybe throw a small sticker booklet our way. A cheap Happy Meal-esque figurine would be pretty awesome too.

I really don't think anything should be done. Piracy has financial benefits for all media industries involved. Piracy should be considered as an additional marketing channel.

It can easily show what overseas games people in other countries are interested in. It helps critically acclaimed but poorly marketed games come to prominence. It also shows how will prefer to consume media. Wouldn't you rather have a single cart with dozens of games on it than the elaborate system we with multiple carts have now?

I find it interesting that the DSi has an SD slot. I wonder where they got that idea?

I would be willing to bet that the Chrono Trigger remake owes its very existence to people playing the illegal rom on emulators and seeing how good it is. Same goes for Mega Man 9 and other retro inspired games.

I think the way to go is to emulate what a lot of music artists are doing these days. There's a swedish hip-hop group called looptroop who have stated publically that they don't care if people pirate their cds and what the do instead is to try and give something extra to the people who buy the cds. Every one of their later CD's have beautiful artwork in the sleeve togehter with stories about the songs and their conception for the real fans.

I think this could be the way to go, you either do the whole sigital distribution and charge a lower price or make sure the people who buy the game feel like you're giving them something extra. A perfect example is luminous ar 2, the people who preordered the game got a free soundtrack with the games beautiful tunes. This kind of thing could be done with all the games, soundtracks, a proper beefed out manual with artwork and stories...something like the "feelies" you got in old infocom games, I think that would work well.

Protip: You'll never prevent piracy. You'll just make it less attractive. THAT is how you sell video games.

As ever, Galactic Civ II is a prime example of this. The game sold remarkably well and has no copy protection. It sold well because Stardock offers amazing customer support, free updates (content updates mind you), and the ability to re download a game without the disc, for registered copies.

Like people said, reward the buyers not punish the steals.

I have to agree with the comment stating they should stop punishing paying customers and perhaps take to rewarding them instead.

Most actions taken by companies overtly only punish the paying customer in the end in one way shape and or form. While people who pirate the game don't suffer one bit. while this doesn't hold as true for console games as the measures taken with them tend to be more covert which is why I tend to stick with console systems, sadly Overt seems like its the direction they are headed. I can tell you that I have boycotted more games in the last three years than I have played and not because the games didn't look good but because I found the actions of the companies releasing them to be as reprehensible as the thought of pirating the game.

For what amounts to looking me in the face while I'm forking over they money they asked for and essentially calling me a criminal while I'm doing so, doesn't exactly inspire me to do future business with anyone.

Honestly the stick has essentially failed in all its forms perhaps the carrot would get them better results.

The best way to prevent piracy of digital media is to make the physical object itself more desirable. In this case, that means creating a nice overall package, including extras that come with the game, so that people will want to go out and buy it. Of course the game's publisher has to pay for the extra items and packaging, but I'm quite sure it would pay off with higher sales. Soundtrack CDs, deluxe manuals and art books are a few good options.

Hahaha, does this remind anyone of Prince of Persia? At a certain point in the game you had to look up a VERY specific letter in the manual (like, page 32, line 17, word 6, letter 3) or you would die instantly?

I cannot stand piracy, but it's there and outside of MMOs I can't think of a protection model which has ever really worked. Stop trying to prevent piracy and embrace paying customers.

Also, I'd petition enthusiast media to pursue a hard stance against piracy...unlike what you guys do here. Every time the topic of piracy comes up here, pirates freely post their comments with nary a word from anyone from DS Fanboy. Your homebrew guide was practically a how-to for fledgling pirates.

I'm glad you guys report on piracy. But please, take some ownership of the hobby you profess to love. Admonish self-professed pirates posting on your own site. Make it known that you don't condone such activities. Make it known that practitioners of piracy (re: theft) are not welcome here.

Dude, there is no way they can prevent piracy, if something can be created it can be manipulated or destroyed, reasons why people pirate, because the game cost too much, and they are not sure about spending on the game, and probably in the past they spent a lot of money on games, that were not like they expected, and regreted buying them, bottom line is, people pirate because the prices are outrageous, example dragon quest 9 65 dollars,unless you are a hardcore fan there is no an average fan will spend that much money, pirating saves people loads of cash, and that's why people do it, and some people still buy the game is they like it

The thing is, I've always assumed that piracy is more rampant in non-Region 1 territories. I could be wrong, but taking into consideration tariffs, VATs, extra costs to recoup from localizing in multiple languages, the need to compensate for smaller consumer base with higher prices, or just plain higher price points (Japan?), the fact is that DS games cost more than the equivalent of $30 USD in many places across the globe. If I'm not horribly mistaken in this assumption, then piracy is as much a function of ability to pay as willingness to pay. For every gloating little brat with the minimum number of brain cells needed to operate uTorrent who can well afford the games but still chooses to download them, there's probably someone who would like to own physical copies but can't justify the price.

In either of these cases, extra incentives that come with owning the physical product are meaningless because they do nothing to address why the more reluctant pirates do it in the first place. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it, extra incentives or not. I'm not saying that this is always right--you should always try to get the game if it's available in your region for a reasonable price or otherwise reasonably importable. I'm of the mind that it's something that just can't be avoided.

Maybe if there weren't so many crap DS games, I would be less tempted to pirate. Out of this whole year there are only like 4 or 5 games worthy of putting in more than 15 min. of gameplay.

Oh boy.

I have been around long enough to remember the manual checks, red plastic decoders and whatnot used back in "the day" to prevent game diskettes from being copied.

Interestingly enough "piracy" has existed for as long as electronic gaming has used any sort of readily available media. Also interstingly enough is that the gaming industry has *grown* by leaps and bounds since then. While "piracy" continued.

So I think we can pretty much accept that it will continue to happen regardless whatever steps publishers take.

Another item we learn from the music industry's problems - people who copy digital goods and do not pay for it - almost never would have purchased it in the first place.

Another item that we learn from other industries facing the same issue - "protection" methods (i.e. DRM) are extremely costly to implement, never work and cost far more in legitimate customer's good will.

Now don't misunderstand me, I am not apologising for people who do such things. I am just making the points that have been made again and again regarding other industries.

So what to do?

Well the first option and the option that companies instinctually reach for is to punish everyone - SPend wads and wads of cash on lobbying for government aid in the form of laws and enforcers - byzantine bug-inducing protection schemes - and so forth as we see from the RIAA, MPIAA, BSA etc. But the DS game companies should learn from those mistakes instead of repeating them.

So what else can they do? give all that hard work away?

Well - sort of. What they can do is understand that this behavior will happen no matter what they do and so instead use it to their advantage:

* Find ways to make it easier to buy than it is to copy. iTunes is an example - it is easier to pay a buck for the song and drop it on your ipod than it is to go and find the song, make sure it is labeled correctly, make sure it is virus free, make sure it is in the right format...the itunes just integrates with your computer, credit card and iPod.

* induce people to buy rather than copy by bundling desired physical goods - exclusive items - regional items (items only available in certain regions, creating a collector phenomena)

* induce people to buy rather than copy by bundling desired virtual goods - items that can be downloaded when a copy is registered - customization items( when reaching a certain level or check point you can have some sort of customization item that is unique to that registered game)

* utilize those cheapskates who wont buy through using them as marketing engines - One of the less tangible benefits of copying games is that users arent afraid to try a new game and are easier to induce into fandom. I mean really, would I have tried pokemon unless my son had given me his (nearly worn out) pearl version to play. A user who can freely try a new game can be induced to becomeing a fan. My son and I are eager to buy the new pokemon game.

* stop trying to squeeze every single penny from a game - Again, the inducing fandom by giving away older games. Not the physical carts, but the software images. Want people to buy the new Cooking Mama? Let them download the old one; do that just before the new release in order to build up interest. or heck sell a flash cart with all the games packed onboard.

The point is that "piracy" is a tarbaby to fight. "piracy" has potential uses, if a company cares to use its imagination. The choice seems pretty evident to me.

clearly you misunderstand my meaning.
People that steal a car and people that steal a movie are stealing , don't get me wrong.
But stealing a car , its a object that will be noticed missing.
A video game , aka a ROM , a piece of data , which you copy from one source to another. Your not stealing the rom , but rather copying it. Its like burning a dvd or music cd.
So when i say people that are using ROMs are breaking the law , they are. But Nintendo isn't being affected by the lose of an actual cart. Much like if you watch a movie online , they aren't losing the movie dvd.
Nintendo is actually making a profit in the fact that most people buy a flashcard , need a DS to play the games. So really they aren't losing money by the pirates , as the pirates were never going to buy the game in the first place.
So when Nintendo says , we lost 1 million sales of Chrono Trigger to Pirating , they have no way to prove those sales , as charts and predictions of sales are never 100% on.
But we all know flashcards are rampart, the R4 and M3 are very popular brands. Each one sales i bet about 1000 units a month. Which means the DS sales are increased by an extra 1000 units a month then they were expecting.
And when you really go deeper. many people use flashcards solely for honest purpose , many do download the roms illegally to playtest first, generally they buy the games afterwards, many still where never going to buy the games ever, and the rest are just getting a free ride.
So that means maybe 25% of the total market of people that buy flashcards are ripping off Nintendo. So do the math.
Nintendo lost 1 million sales of Chrono Trigger at 40 million dollars total loss. However say 25% of the people that use those flashcards buy the game, so 25% of 40 million reduces the loss by 10 million. Another 25% of the people that use flashcards where never going to buy the game. 20 million dollars, another 25% that use flashcards , didn't even download the game . Nintendo now has lost 10 million dollars rather then 40.
Now recall that 1000 extra DS units are being sold every month, so say they base those sales of chrono trigger on a year. So an extra 12,000 units where sold due to flashcards that year.
12,000 ds units cost about 150 bucks a unit.
They made 18 million on those ds units. So reality is yes they will lose money because of flashcards.

But i doubt they lose more then a million sales of all ds games in a year. So if there was some actually real data , other then some guesses by me, that really they might be lose a few million a year to pirates. But at the same time they might be making 10 million a year because of those same pirates.

Retractable Spikes.

or flood the torrent sites with faulty/bad copies of the game. If possible, incorporate some malicious code that will brick the DS.

"But in the end is imposible, making the games is too expensive, you can't sell them in $5, the company would go bankrupt."

I think it's perfectly possible, for big companies and small ones...
Of course, some games are more expensive to develop than others, but again, it's better a single $1 than nothing (getting pirated). Piracy will prevail most likely forever anyway!

At worst case they would probably earn the same money, having, say 100% people paying $1 may be equal to having 1% paying $40, and 99% people downloading the roms at no cost.

And think digital distribution cuts the cost of physical product, packaging, transport... so, unless developers expect to drive ferraris like Carmack, I think it is perfectly possible. Perhaps I'm too much optimist, but I will implement this idea anyway (I'm trying to develop a game)

Lowering prices in other countries can be a good way to fight piracy, because most people pirate games they can't afford.

I'm in the camp that doesn't think the pirates are really hurting the sales that much. Those aren't people who would be paying customers otherwise. They're pirates. If they couldn't illegally run the games, they wouldn't be interested in the games.

Oh, and I'm one of those guys that uses his flashcart to play the games he owns and try out the games he might want to own.

If you want to make people with no income the target audience of your industry (children), or people with limited to no income (children who attend university), then you ought to expect this kind of thing.


Do you know what I think would limit piracy? Stop making every game release a blockbuster. Stop the "MUST OWN IT" crap, stop the game media from hyping your game to be bigger than Jesus. I bet that would slow piracy down to more acceptable levels, really.

There have been some interesting suggestions in this discussion. As an opponent of pirating, I find the best suggestions yet are: (1) use the carrot rather then the stick: bundle games with extras; and (2) reduce the price (especially in countries where game prices are ridiculous over inflated).

In countries where I hear DS games go for around 80 US, I would certainly understand why pirating is a more appealing alternative. Even we loyal fans can't be expected to support games if the prices are so ridiculous. I'm not saying pirating is a good thing, but Nintendo and co. can't expect even loyal fans to put 80 on each of their games, when there are so many other necessities that come first. In such a case, even if there was no way to pirate, I doubt a significant number of people would buy games. I'm surprised these companies haven't realized this....or maybe it's the retailers and their greedy fingers that raise the prices, either way, it is pretty unwise in the end....

Just wondering what are some trusted sites to get flashcards?
I got a fake one which broke in two days, so I am scared of just throwing my money away.

Piracy? It is impossible to stop piracy without over-burdening the legitimate consumer. Truth is, I really have a hard time believing that people who "pirate" games, for whatever reason, don't end up buying it. At least I believe they buy the games they really love.

Others have touched on both of these points, but here's what I think would be the most effective - and it works by rewarding the people who do the right thing, rather than hassling anyone.

* Make the game cheaper. Put out a good game at a budget price, and release a press statement that you're doing this in an attempt to combat piracy. If enough studios do this, it could just inspire change in the market and the culture surrounding piracy.

* Reward those who buy the game with artwork, collectables, developer-club points, etc.

Of course, unless these things are handled (and are accepted) well, it could mean lower profits for the game studio. The price point would need to be at the level where the profit of increased sales outweighed the loss of a lower price.

I think it's possible, but I don't see any big studios having the balls to try it.

I totally agree with anyone saying "make the product attractive". I'm always frustrated by the crappy packaging, warning messages, notices, advertisements and other garbage that come with a game I paid for. They often feel cheaply put together, and a company wants me to pay money for this? Publishers should come up with creative concepts for their packaging, make them less a disposable product and turn it into something someone would be proud to own, and keep, for a long time.

They should do this with every media though. I bought Flight of the Conchords on DVD. It had a neat looking package, but then every time I went to watch an episode on the first DVD I had a five to six minute advertisement to watch. I could have downloaded the episodes, but I made a conscious decision to go buy it, and they made me regret it.

Y'know I wouldn't be surprised to see anti-piracy screens show up in video game start-ups in the near future.

I disagree that most people will pirate.

I believe that the more difficult you make it, the lower the number of pirates.

Of course, the pirates will always be there but if you're spending X number of hours trying to get the files, and then to make them work properly that's a waste of X hours you could be playing.

Currently, it is >super< easy with the current flashcarts to pirate (I have one myself).

I don't know if I am in the minority but I actually like the way the Xbox360 does with piracy. First, it is really difficult to copy a game. If you want to download a file, it's really large. Then you need to mod your Xbox360, for what so that you can get banned from Xbox Live. None of my Xbox games are pirated as it's not worth it, nor is it worth my time to do so (if it were easier maybe) but with the possibility of being banned (I'd rather pick and choose the games I want).

I would make a good game is what I would do. If you make a good game, people will buy it. If you have a reputation for making bad games and/or make a bad game, or make some ridiculous anti-piracy measure, etc. people will pirate it.

That game will be pirated within the first day. Someone will scan the spellbook and it'll be over.

The reason people aren't buying games is because they're not good. Plain and simple.

I agree with an earlier comment. Piracy is actually good for the industry.

I know lots of people who bought a ds for their kids and a couple of games, and it now languishes under a bed. They will never buy more games, accessories or an updated consol.

Even those who choose to download games will buy (or have bought for them as presents) extra games and they help keep the ds comunity alive and kicking.

Personally I think software makers should forget about piracy and spend more time developing new markets. The ds can be so much more than a game and the market for older users is almost completely ignored. 'Brain training' is a good start, but why do I have to turn to home brew for an organiser/calendar/contact list/note pad/to do list etc.

Where is the student tool kit with timetable/scientific calculator/homework planner/study tool/mp3 player etc

Where is the puzzle collection for adults without the cutsie pie special effects

Where is the organiser that links with Outlook, the text recognition software, easy email tool and basic spreadsheet. Switch her on and she becomes a pocket notebook, easy to navagate for the non technophile who probably wouldn't even know what a rom is, let alone how to download one.

Stop trying to police piracy and concentrate on the future for ds or pretty soon the iphone will be a gamer and ds will be history.

Nine Inch Nails has released their last 3 albums for abolutely no charge online. They even offred differenet audio codecs. Talk about being nice to their fans. To make money off of these albums they offer limited edition and bonus material to their in-store copies. I think that methods like this could somehow be implemented into the video game industry

i remember back in the day with pc games, you were required to enter a word on a page of the game manual in order to play the game. piracy protective precautions have been around for ages, it's nothing to be surprised about although i can see people who use pirated games being nervous about this all the same.

Where I'm from new portable games cost $60, console games cost $110 and PC games cost $80.

Yes, adding a little figurine will definitely make me fork out that much money for a game. /sarcasm

Piracy is RAMPANT outside of the US. I can go to a store and pay $5 to have him copy a game to my flash cart, that's how it works in most of the developing world.

People RESPECT good games, with those prices, you'll still see people here who bought Phantom Hourglass and other actually decent titles.

Company/Consumer relationships also help. Valve will ALWAYS get my money (especially since Steam lets me pay the same amount most of you guys do).