Metal Gear Solid theme unused in MGS4 due to plagiarism claims
Why wasn't the iconic Metal Gear Solid theme used in Metal Gear Solid 4? Because, as Gamasutra reports, EGM learned in an interview with series composer Norihiko Hibino that unnamed Russian composers claimed Konami "stole their music."
A video posted on YouTube (viewable here) shows series creator, Hideo Kojima, being presented with a recording of Georgy Sviridov's "Pushkin's Garland," a 1979 classical work which contains a similar-sounding passage. The MGS theme was first heard in the original PlayStation game, circa1995 1998. It was written by Konami's Tappi "TAPPY" Iwase, and has subsequently been reworked and remixed, most notably by film composer Harry Gregson-Williams, who scored MGS2-4.
Speaking to EGM, Hibino flatly denies that the MGS theme was "stolen," but admits that "Konami was too sensitive about the situation and just decided not to use that music in the game."
A video posted on YouTube (viewable here) shows series creator, Hideo Kojima, being presented with a recording of Georgy Sviridov's "Pushkin's Garland," a 1979 classical work which contains a similar-sounding passage. The MGS theme was first heard in the original PlayStation game, circa
Speaking to EGM, Hibino flatly denies that the MGS theme was "stolen," but admits that "Konami was too sensitive about the situation and just decided not to use that music in the game."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
JerJer @ Dec 12th 2008 9:06PM
music gets stolen. nothing new here.
if you are nickelback, you steal from yourself.
Strategy_Panda (The Sandwitch Poisoning Crew) @ Dec 12th 2008 9:10PM
lulz
Hyams @ Dec 12th 2008 9:08PM
Oh well, MGS4 has an awesome soundtrack regardless.
The 'Old Snake' track is just plain amazing, IMO.
343 Guilty Fart @ Dec 13th 2008 4:49PM
Isn't the MGS theme on the soundtrack though?
FOXHOUND @ Dec 13th 2008 6:49PM
Yeah, but it's slightly changed into a meld of themes, called "Metal Gear Saga". :0
BarelyFitz @ Dec 12th 2008 9:13PM
In addition, the theme had some words from the Koran.
-slycooper_rocker- (lorddshadow the amazing) psn: shahanasalam @ Dec 13th 2008 1:11AM
epic win
Seroth @ Dec 12th 2008 9:16PM
This is also probably why the song wasn't in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. >=[
Eternal @ Dec 12th 2008 9:17PM
Wow, It does seem really similar. Too bad the Russian Composers had to get all upset about it. It's not like they are completely the same.
CC @ Dec 13th 2008 3:55AM
I don't understand why they were upset enough to make it a matter of this kind
what, are they gonna pursue royalties from them, AFTER they accuse them for stealing?
like its a big deal to these guys that the theme song from a well known video game contained elements of their work.
all they would do is stop using the theme like they did.
so they gained absolutely nothing from being so upset, jeez
Extinction @ Dec 12th 2008 9:27PM
I noticed no similarities between the MGS theme and that russian piece
Uncontrol @ Dec 12th 2008 9:39PM
kojima is a stylish motherfucker
Glen @ Dec 12th 2008 9:41PM
Really? There are maybe two sets of 5 notes that are similar (and by that I mean exactly the same), and nothing else (and by that I literally mean nothing else).
Luthyr @ Dec 12th 2008 9:46PM
There's two distinct sections that are pretty similar to the those found in the MGS theme. I'm not sure why people think the song is so drastically different. I think it's a little too similar to be a coincidence, but who knows.
therpham @ Dec 12th 2008 10:02PM
The Super Mario Brothers underworld theme sounds just like some old disco track but that doesn't stop Nintendo.
Damn, now that's fighting the MGS theme to see which one gets to be stuck in my head.
Jim @ Dec 12th 2008 10:15PM
Seriously. Uncool.
I like that theme a lot and I want to hear it in my MGS games.
BlackBeltJones @ Dec 12th 2008 10:45PM
Man, the Russians are becoming douchebags again. Someone go resurrect Reagan to kick their butts.
Geist @ Dec 12th 2008 11:41PM
REAGAN SMASH
WRE @ Dec 13th 2008 12:24AM
I've always wanted to make a fighting game where you play as historical figures in history, and I figured that Reagan's super power would be to forget he took any damage, thus refilling his health bar. Too soon?
aReEeNeN @ Dec 12th 2008 10:52PM
I always thought there was a very strange similarity between the Theme of Love from MGS4 (especially the version in Brawl) and both the Pirates of the Caribbean theme and the Gladiator theme. Decide for yourselves.
Gladiator - (3:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTIjsGwd0CM&feature=related
Pirates of the Caribbean - (0:06)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttQjm-8OITE&feature=related
SeannyD @ Dec 13th 2008 7:22PM
Not surprising. Harry Gregson-Williams comes from the same school of composers led by Hans Zimmer. In fact, Gregson-Williams was even credited alongside Zimmer for music from "The Rock". But they all work together from time to time.
Alex @ Dec 13th 2008 7:53PM
At 3:31 is on the Gladiator music it sounds more like the theme to Oblivion. (In the main menu.)
Zertoss @ Dec 12th 2008 11:04PM
And yet kids are allowed to sing the Alphabet Song while giving nothing to the composers of Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star.
hvnlysoldr @ Dec 13th 2008 1:18AM
And a Happy Birthday to you
animebop @ Dec 13th 2008 1:43AM
All of these songs are copyrighted, and the owners of the copyright are still being paid royalties.
Tathar @ Dec 14th 2008 10:36AM
Odd, I always thought that those songs became public domain long ago.
engine_man @ Dec 12th 2008 11:21PM
1995?? What are you smoking! MGS1 came out in 98, years after the PS1 established dominance.
Come on Rannddddyyyyyy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjQr-yqCU8
Chin-Poh @ Dec 13th 2008 1:23AM
Maybe it was in DEVELOPMENT since 1995???
Coldbrand @ Dec 13th 2008 12:34AM
Holy shit this is old news.
War Machine @ Dec 13th 2008 3:11PM
I heard about this long before MGS4 came out, are we posting old news now?
"This just in: We landed on the moon!"
Bluebrake @ Dec 13th 2008 12:36AM
Wow... definitely too close to be a coincidence. The dudes have a case.
It's a shame, though. The MGS theme was awesome, and much better than the tune it plagiarized.
Why didn't they use the version from MGS3? That's the best one of all, and it's hardly recognizable.
By the way, does the theme really show up originally in MGS1? I don't remember it at all, and I think I've looked.
tung lashor @ Dec 13th 2008 1:04PM
Thank you! I thought the same thing - this theme was never in MGS1. I remember the first time I heard it, on the trailer for MGS2. I played the original a lot so I'm sure I'd have recognised it.
On the subject of plagiarism - no way. I can hear fleeting similarities but that's it. I'm sure for it to be plagiarism it has to include significant portions of another work, and that's just not the case here.
Bluebrake @ Dec 13th 2008 1:37PM
I think you're nuts. The first section from 0:24-0:32 in the video, although very close, could conceivably be a coincidence. When it goes up to A# at 33 seconds, that becomes *extremely* unlikely. It then diverges at about 36 seconds, but comes back to MGS's "B" theme at 0:50 (starts at about 1:50 in the MGS2 track) -- which is a completely different melody, but recreated here nearly perfectly! There's absolutely zero chance (well, probably something like 1 in a billion) of that being a coincidence.
If I find time, maybe I'll do an overlay of the two songs on top of each other. It might have been accidental, but there's no way TAPPY/Gregson-Williams didn't hear this song before writing the theme.
beans @ Dec 13th 2008 2:04AM
honestly, and I kinda feel bad about this...I didn't even notice it was gone...
Firestorm @ Dec 13th 2008 5:04AM
People are way too quick to shout plagiarism these days. What everyone should realize is there are only 12 different pitches in Western music. And if you aren't writing avant garde music, you're likely only using a maximum of 7 at a time.
It's not a simple calculation of 7! to see how many permutations there are, since you can vary the rhythms etc., but basically the theoretical maximum amount of different melodies is not that huge. When you get down to interpreting anything that "sounds like it" to be the same melody, that narrows it down even more.
Now think about how much music has been composed in the course of history. Really the fact is that unless you're writing some really random 12-tone stuff, it's pretty much 100% guaranteed you're going to "plagiarize" a LOT of music.
Frankly, every time I see plagiarization accusations leveled against someone and the supposedly violated source is some obscure piece that no one has ever heard of (at least around where the accused composer resides), I call BS. As I'm inclinced to do here.
Markusdragon @ Dec 13th 2008 5:16AM
On the subject of musical similarity, anyone find Sylar's theme in Heroes and the Fable theme remarkably similar?
Bowser Rogozhin @ Dec 13th 2008 6:27AM
Most video game music sucks so I'm not surprised the composer sought to parasite from existing music. Did Konami really think they'd get away with it?
But I am most disappointed that most of the people couldn't care less about this thievery. Imagine it was your hard work that was being stolen from your bosom, how would you feel? Konami, a mega multinational, sneak food away from the mouths of your children. That's damn low, and the collective apathy I observe here is even lower. You all disgust me.
Goity @ Dec 13th 2008 7:55AM
You *clearly* know nothing about musical composition. The tunes aren't really that close at all, and any similarities could be easily explained by chord movement rules.
Bowser Rogozhin @ Dec 13th 2008 8:58AM
What do you mean? I rap.
WRE @ Dec 13th 2008 10:10AM
Silly Bowser. He said "musical composition". Rap doesn't have anything to do with music.
Noshino @ Dec 13th 2008 10:22AM
Bowser, just like Goity explained the similarities are VERY close, if you are telling me that the MGS theme is "thievery", then all the songs that share similarities to Pachebel's Canon should also be called out?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
Zertoss @ Dec 13th 2008 11:48AM
"What do you mean? I rap."
Hilarious retort. +1 to you, sir.
Reader @ Dec 13th 2008 1:05PM
Hahahaha EPIC WIN
Goity @ Dec 13th 2008 7:51AM
That's nowhere near similar enough to count as plagiarism.
ryan @ Dec 13th 2008 9:00AM
Darn, where were you when the Russians threatened Kojima? This whole thing could've been avoided...DARN.
navstar @ Dec 13th 2008 1:08PM
Check out the score to the movie "Speed" -- lots of similar sounding passages that reminded me of the MGS theme.
Pajama_Man @ Dec 13th 2008 2:42PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVJD-Thkjv4&feature=related
0:54 reminds me of the Beatmania MGS1 remix hehe.
Zsavior @ Dec 13th 2008 2:54PM
Hmm Pieces of a song that fits another song This never happens in Music any where..... >_>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk8fB4CRse4&feature=channel_page
Kevin Ghadyani @ Dec 14th 2008 3:38AM
Is that the right song? I can't find the passage on the album.
Kevin Ghadyani @ Dec 14th 2008 3:54AM
Yeah, you guys messed up. A simple Wikipedia shows that it's a choir piece that you guys said it was. There's also no passage "Metel" on that album at all. Luckily I was able to find it online, but I bought the wrong album thinking it was this one. I mean please, next time, look up the facts before posting. I'd like to keep thinking Joystiq is reliable.
Winter Road is track 9 which is Snow-Storm which was 1964. I think the translator messed up in the vid. http://www.amazon.com/Snow-storm-Pushkins-Garland-G-Sviridov/dp/B0002FBN54/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1229244744&sr=1-2
That's the album he was holding.