Unsealed docs suggest Microsoft knew about 360's disc scratching

I read the "article" *Blog post!= article*, but it still doesn't give enough info to base an opinion off of. Now, reading the case file, it seems to me like they are suing because the system will scratch a disk if moved while in operation. The problem with this is, the system manual clearly states to do not move the system while in operation. Personally, I don't even move my laptop if a disk is spinning at a high rate. Even after all of this, the case is built on the word of one man.

Another part of the argument is that, the tray loading design is strange for a system that can be placed vertically. This is purely based on the PS3 and Wii having slot drives and the ability to be stood vertically or horizonally. Numerous PC's and the PS2 have had this setup and we do not hear about them being a "strange" design.

All in all, this case seems to hold no water. This is only one sides opinion, but I'm still taking it with a grain of salt when it comes to hearsay from the tech.

Page 11/45-12/45 (ODD is defined as Optical Disc Drive)

"In either position, Xbox 360 ODDs are specified by Microsoft to spin game discs at
“12x,” which translates to a rotational speed of 7,500 rpm – a very high speed that is unique in
the home video game industry. Sidman Dec. ¶¶ 32-33.5 Microsoft failed during the ODD
specification phase to account for both the high rate of disc rotational speed and the foreseeable
movement of the console. Id. ¶¶ 19-26. This failure, combined with other mistakes Microsoft
made in specifying the ODD, resulted in the design defect causing injury to Plaintiffs and the
proposed Classes.
C. Optical Disc Drives (ODDs) are Common in Consumer Products.
As explained by Dr. Sidman, ODDs are extremely common and have been in regular use
by consumers since the introduction of the first compact disc players in the early 1980s. Sidman
Dec. ¶¶ 4, 26. Because CD and DVD media supported by ODDs are robust, ODDs are found in
numerous consumer products where they are routinely subjected to high levels of movement, tilt,
swivel, and vibration. Id. For example, ODDs are found in automobile CD and DVD players,
notebook computers, portable DVD players, and digital video camera/recorders (“camcorders”).6
Sony introduced a portable CD player called the “Discman” in 1984, which was designed to play
CDs while users walked, ran, or exercised. Portable CD players of this type are still sold and
commonly used today.
Although these consumer-operated CDs and DVDs are routinely subjected to tilting and
movement while operating, none of the media played in these consumer products have
experienced widespread disc-scratching problems. Indeed (with the conspicuous exception of Microsoft), industry engineers have long anticipated this problem and have learned to provide
simple, inexpensive and obvious measures to protect optical discs in consumer applications
while the ODD is in use and the disc is spinning. Id. ¶ 27. As a result, there is a reasonable
consumer expectation that consumer products with ODDs will not cause media discs to be
scratched even when the products are tilted, vibrated, or slightly rotated in the course of every
day use."

pages 13/45-14/45

"...Because the Xbox 360’s ODD rotates Xbox 360 game discs at 7,500 rpm, significant
gyroscopic forces are exerted on a disc while spinning.7 Compared to the gyroscopic forces at
work on a disc rotating at 3,500 or 4,000 rpm, see supra note 5, the greater gyroscopic forces
exerted on an Xbox game disc make it even more likely that any movement of an Xbox 360
console while a game disc is playing will cause the game disc to become uncoupled from the
spindle. Because these greater gyroscopic forces are combined with both a weak magnetic force
for holding the disc in place, and a tray-loaded design that can be oriented vertically, uncoupling
of a disc during normal console use was a predictable result. See id. ¶ 31.
When a game disc becomes uncoupled (or “unchucked”) in the Xbox 360 ODD, it
wobbles within the ODD and can come into contact with internal ODD components. Id. ¶ 33.
Microsoft has determined through its own internal testing that contact with the lens or printed
circuit board of the OPU of the ODD by an unchucked or gyroscopically deformed game discs is
what causes the deep circular gouges in the underside of the game discs. Id. ¶ 12. In addition,
due to the high level of gyroscopic force exerted on an Xbox 360 game disc while it spins at
7,500 rpm, movement of the console can cause the game disc to “deflect” or warp sufficiently to
come into contact with the OPU even if the disc is not unchucked, which will also cause the deep circular gouges in the underside of the game discs. Id. ¶ 34. This is the type of scratch
experienced by Plaintiffs and the members of the proposed Damaged Disc Subclass."

The document then goes on to basically state what I quoted in the blog post earlier.

The cux of the argument is found on page 18/45

"Given the seriousness of the damage that may result from movement of
the Xbox 360 and the unlikelihood that consumers would expect such a catastrophic result from
normal use of any other ODD device, Microsoft’s decision not to adhere a permanent warning to
the Xbox 360 is patently insufficient. Microsoft’s indifference to either fixing or warning of this
defect has caused its customers millions of dollars in damage. Of course, Microsoft would not
need any warning on the Xbox 360 if it had properly designed the ODD in the first place."

Page 18 I goes on a bit more regarding Microsofts business practices regarding the ODD failure.

The rest of the pdf is minutia regarding why the argument is/is not sound, and why it qualifies as a cass action suit etc.

Still sounds like they are saying it would only happen when moved, which the manual clearly states not to do. I'm still wondering who MS had any choice in this since they are the the ones making the drives. Why would Samsung take the advice of MS over their own engineers, whereby taking a risk on soiling their good name? You know what I mean?

I'm not saying it isn't MS' fault, but I wonder why a drive maker would consider the advice of MS over their own people... It's like asking a PETA member how to cook roast beef.

It's cute that you actually believe Microsoft when they say that people are moving their consoles while the discs are spinning.

Roto13, it's cute you think there's something else that could cause it.

Yeah, something else does cause it. Faulty disc drives.

Roto.. you realize that all we can go by right now is the fact that the person filing the lawsuit moved the console until we hear further proof, correct?

What!?

It was sarcasm. Just pointing out how silly it was.

You wouldn't load a hamster in an Xbox360
You wouldn't Slam it with a hammer
and you wouldn't jostle it/manhandle/be rough with/move it around/Don't treat as Walkman

I'm feeling silly explaining this... Sorry Gun Barrier

Wow are you a total ass. the thing about the 360 is even if you take perfect care of it there is still a chance of failure in multiple ways. rrod is not caused by consumer fault at all. now we have proof ms knew that disc would be scrathed (they had a disc replacement program!) and chose not to fix a thing.

i guess it's a lady fault for getting rape if she have a mini skirt on leaving a bar. her negligence for wearing a skirt and going outside.

this blame the victim mentality and subserviance to ms (a know consumer violator in every way and anti trust violater) is sick.

read some facts for yourself friend.

http://boycottnovell.com/

"...as long as people take care of their electronics, the life of that item significantly increases, and any potential problems can be easily avoided."

I'm the same way and I have had two 360s die on me. The problems with the manufacturing of the 360 seems to go far beyond what one would normally encounter.

[rant]
I've said this before but I think Microsoft did an absolutely unacceptable job at making the 360 and I hope they get burned in some way. Be it now or further down the road. Its not because I hate Microsoft or the xbox in general, but because I dislike the way the 360 development was handled and the more companies that see some kind of reaction to their actions, (hopefully) the more attention will be payed into making future products.
[/rant]

"However, once again we face the inevitable issue that no one accepts: accountability - I see it all day, everyday in retail, and no one likes to hear it."

yea in this case ms has no accountability for selling a piece of shit console. don't try to spin it shill bag. this is ms fault plain and simple.

when does the company have to be accountable for what they sell? in your eyes its always the fault of the consumer/victim.

Wow you're a dumbass. Consumer negligence?

1. Buy 360
2. Put 360 in entertainment center
3. Leave 360 completely immobile, and use as specified.
4. BOOM, red rings due to consumer negligence.

Hell, I'm a huge fan of my 360, but clearly in the scenario I've detailed, the negligence is apparently in step 1, you stupid shill of a twatbucket doorknob greaser. Whatever that is. Anyway, you suck.

I said you're a dumbass, right? I didn't want to forget that part.

Yeah because I neglected my 360 by having it in the same cabinet every game console I've ever owned has gone in and having it red ring... totally my fault.

Well, you've pretty much validated my argument that only a blind fanboy would defend MS miserable hardware failures in your attempt to _blame the user_ for the problem. This defies logic. Not even MS itself has offered such a feeble defense. I'm happy to see others here reject this idiocy.

Microsoft doesn't send replacement discs any more.

You know, I have always been worried about "anger people" myself...

I am just saying that Xbox core gamers have been more forgiven to the 360 missteps than normal casual people are willing to put up with. Always remember, there are more of them then there are of us. Microsoft PR can get nasty with people who money is more harder to come by in these troubling times (drink).

Just look at MS Vista PR... Or Sony's PS3...