Suda51: 'Big changes' in store for No More Heroes 2's open world
In an interview on GameSetWatch, Suda51 was asked about his long-time desire to build a true open-world game. He acknowledged that No More Heroes was a step towards realizing his goal, but as for the sequel, he said to "expect big changes for No More Heroes 2's open world." And what of series star, Travis Touchdown, now that there are truly no more heroes in the game's universe? "Actually, there are still some heroes left," he teased.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Markez (Anti-Panda Death Murder Squadron) @ Dec 22nd 2008 9:57PM
Got this a month or so ago cheap off eBay, and haven't sunk a whole lot of time in it. But I did get into it enough to get a taste of the open world environment, and it blows my mind how bare bones and awful it was. I understand it wasn't the main part of the game at all, but still...
Source article is pretty thin on details as to what they'll actually change :(
TwEE @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:02PM
Yeah the overworld was pretty primitive. Why dosnt he just cut that crap out completely and focus on what he's good at?
t_m @ Dec 23rd 2008 8:26AM
I could be wrong, but isn't the open world SUPPOSED to be bare bones and boring?
Isn't the reality of the guy's otaku life supposed to contrast with the fantasy or something?
Wiinterfang @ Dec 23rd 2008 10:21AM
Sounds like an excuse to make a bad game.
Gonzo @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:36AM
Yea. I thought the idea of it being intentionally bad isn't just unfair to the poor slobs who bought the game but also a bad excuse for lazy programming.
I still don't know how this game got so much praise when we had to spend half the time roaming around that... litterbox (too crappy for a sandbox) playing quick time event minigames.
I just can't believe he got the funding for a sequel. I guess as long as people go to see bad movies like anything by Uwe Boll, there's also going to be those who like bad games like anything by Suda 51.
Comet @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:53AM
You know its not like they had a super huge budget with NMH. Im guessing budget constraints is the main reasoning for nothing in the over world.
Mr Khan @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:06PM
Being a glorified level select with hideous pop-in, collision detection, polygon counts, and textures didn't really help
Excellent writing, creative bosses, and gratifying motion controls really made that game what it was.
Gonzo @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:39AM
Actually I think we can credit the critics for making this game what it was: the most overrated piece of crap to be released on the Wii.
MegaSnort @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:06PM
I loved No More Heroes but calling its open world gameplay broken and craptastic is still too generous. Focus on the core gameplay, plot, artistic style, boss fights, so many great things about the original that could be even better. But open-world?? You're better off just removing it all together since making it decent would require more resources than a small dev like Grasshopper Manufacture probably has at its disposal.
Mr Khan @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:12PM
to be fair, Grasshopper is being given more funding this time around, due to the original's excessive sales (yes, excessive by Suda 51's standards)
MegaSnort @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:21PM
Any excess resources should be used for expanding on the interactive house-cat gameplay because that was lightyears ahead of the open world gameplay in the original.
Mr Khan @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:40PM
I loved Jeane. She was so cute
ds @ Dec 23rd 2008 8:46AM
@Mr Khan: (SPOILER ALERT)
Which one?
Mr Khan @ Dec 23rd 2008 1:03PM
loved the cat, hated the girl (probably makes my "most aggravating bosses" list)
Sephy @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:16PM
They have a lot to work with when it comes to the sequel, considering how the first game intentionally left tons of unsolved bits of story.
Still, I think the sequel will leave those story elements behind.
Roto13 @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:16PM
Yup, the open world in No More Heroes 1 was ass. There's a reason I downloaded a save file with a retarded amount of money after I finished the game once. :P Now I can replay it without having to bother with the overworld outside of driving to levels or depositing money in the ATM across the street from the motel.
Everything besides the overworld in the game was excellent, though.
Eggman @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:52PM
Personally, I always felt that the overworld was a jab at GTA and other open world sandbox games. As I remember it, Suda51's been quoted as saying that he really doesn't like games like GTA. In general, it was like he purposefully cut down everything in the overworld to just the hidden balls, the different jobs/missions/shops and nothing else because really, that's how empty pretty much every other sandbox game really is.
Really didn't matter either way since you barely spend any actual time there so oh well.
Gonzo @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:43AM
I can see why he has so many fans, yay an intentionally crappy game.
Really how pretentious can a game programmer get. That's like "trust-fund yuppie art critic for the new yorker" pretentious.
Moptimus Slime @ Dec 23rd 2008 12:58PM
I'd rather have an intentionally crappy game than a crappy game that takes itself to seriously. Also, you'd know how retarded you sound if you played Killer7 or Flower, Sun, and Rain or even Michigan: Report from Hell
Also, I love how gamers claim to want something new and innovative, yet whenever a game tries something new or swims upstream against the norm, it gets blasted for not being what we expected. I'll admit the open world was bad, but only when you expect it to be another GTA clone. When you realize that anything Suda does is going to be either satire (boss fights with no control over the outcome making fun of Devil May Cry) or completely off-the-wall (Kess BloodySunday's or Travis Touchdown's name, saying he wants to make a cuter character than Mario)
Gonzo @ Dec 23rd 2008 4:45PM
I'm sorry but the excuses you're making for him are making you both sound pants on head retarded. What did he do in that game that was so new and revolutionary? Was it the boring sandbox (true crime nyc), or maybe the meaningless button mashing (Dynasty Warriors?), or maybe it was the cheesy minigames (half the Wii library)? He didn't do anything new, he did everything used, and badly at that.
I wasn't expecting the sandbox to be anything as grand as GTA but I wasn't expecting to spend half the game buzzing around it either. Even the fans of this game couldn't decide if they wanted to call it a hub or a sandbox: that's sad. All it did was draw out the time between boss battles which would've also been tedious if the player wasn't spit out into that worthless ghostown every time.
I really like games that break with the norm like Katamari Damacy or Valkyria Chronicles but all No More Heroes did was take a whole bunch of overused game gimics and execute them in the most tedious manner.
Moptimus Slime @ Dec 23rd 2008 5:15PM
how is Valkyria Chronicles new? Its a turn based strategy (almost every JRPG) with FPS mechanics (over half the PS360 library) or the artwork (Okami, Prince of Persia)? Yeah, it was soooooooooooo innovative.
See, whenever you break any game down, it shows nothing but rehashes. But sometimes, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
raindogtoo23 @ Jan 16th 2009 12:05PM
So you obviously never played Valkyria Chronicles. Have you ever even seen it? It's definitely more original than No More Heroes, and that's not hard.
I'm just glad you stopped trying to defend the craptacular No More Heroes, those were some pathetic excuses you were making for Suda 51. Are you his lawyer or something or do you lie about how his $#!+ don't stink for free?
It's okay to like bad games (or movies or books or TV shows) but stop trying to convince others that these bad games are fabulous. It just makes you look like a tool.
jeepgun @ Dec 22nd 2008 10:57PM
I loved this game but I thought it really could of benefited from just have a fast travel system from your motel room.
My girlfriend however just loved running around town looking for all the t-shirts, because she's, you know....weird.
samfish @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:17PM
Meh. I say scrap the open world crap entirely and give it a small hub world, if even that. A game like NMH really doesn't need the openworld. Better to just progress the story level-by-level, methinks.
The combat system needs an overhaul something fierce, too. I very rarely play an action game where I feel like the combat is repetitive, but I got that feeling quick in NMH.
James @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:53PM
I've honestly avoided the hell out of No More Heroes.. I loved Killer 7... LOVED IT TO HELL. I don't know why I've not bought NMH, I guess it's because I figure him saying the storyline wouldn't really be a mindfuck like K7 and would be clear and simple and honestly the gameplay/puzzles in K7 weren't anything to write home about.
Roto13 @ Dec 23rd 2008 2:38AM
No More Heroes and Killer 7 couldn't possibly be more different.
whymog @ Dec 23rd 2008 5:53AM
As someone who loved Killer 7, I was wholeheartedly disappointed by No More Heroes. For what that's worth.
ds @ Dec 23rd 2008 8:50AM
I was a huge fan of K7 as well, and I wasn't disappointed by NMH. Not to be too much of a Suda51 fanboy, but, while both games were very different, each scathing social commentary was great in their own way. Play the speech near the end of NMH in slo-mo (not revealing anything here, but it's widely available on YouTube), and you'll see Suda's still got the skills to mess with your head. Oh, and the real ending to NMH says a bit more as well.
Roto13 @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:12AM
I was a huge fan of Killer 7 and I think I would have been disappointed with No More Heroes if I didn't know in advance that they were going the completely opposite direction with it and focusing on the gameplay more than the mindscrew story.
As it stands, they're both fantastic. :P
Megadanxzero @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:55AM
But the gameplay in NMH was shit... You were either walking round occasionally pressing A and flicking the Wiimote to do one of the boring jobs, or you were walking round constantly bashing A and flicking the Wiimote to kill stuff. It couldn't have been more boring unless it was on rails or something... Strangely enough though Killer 7, which was on rails, was infinitely more fun...
Moptimus Slime @ Dec 23rd 2008 1:39PM
ds is right *SUPER OMG SPOILERS FROM NOW ON OK? NO SRSLY DONT READ ON UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR MIND FUCKED SO HARD IT WILL BE TAKING COLD SHOWERS FOR WEEKS* Jeane seems to serve no other purpose than to fuck with both your's and Travis's mind. The breaking of the 4th Wall ("What if the game gets delayed? You don't want this to be No More Heroes Forever do you?", "Its to terrible, it alone would jack up the age rating of this game even further"), the obvious "WTF?" of having Jeane be Travis's sister (making a comparison to Miyuki almost hilarious), the "No seriously, WTF?" of Jeane setting up all of Travis's battles just so he could get his revenge against her.
As for controls, I loved the jobs. If I could've beaten the game by just slaving myself out (*OMG MORE SPOILERS* sort of like Jeane), I would've done that and played with my cat for the whole game. The battle controls seemed to be another satire of Devil May Cry and other games of the sort, where the controls are mostly "hit these buttons in this order and maybe something might happen if we feel like it but not really"
Roto13 @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:39PM
@Megadanxzero: You could boil pretty much every game ever made down to button presses if you want to be weird about it. Killer 7 was holding A and sometimes holding R and pressing A. Halo is pressing the control sticks and sometimes RT. So what?
Poisoned Al @ Dec 23rd 2008 12:22AM
Don't forget the map. Not only was the "open" world pointless, it was close to impossible to get around. It all the the same and the map was unreadable. The icons were tiny and were all lost in that see of blocky, neon green. Yeah I know it was meant to look 8-bit, but the moment you sacrifice usability for style, you need to have someone smack you around the head with your Macbook.
Roto13 @ Dec 23rd 2008 2:39AM
I never had any problem using the map. I didn't think the world was hard to navigate at all. It was basically a grid.
CaramelZappa @ Dec 23rd 2008 3:51AM
The map was simple and easy to navigate. Have you ever used a map before?
The overworld was basically a waste of time, because you just used it to drive in between missions.
whymog @ Dec 23rd 2008 5:55AM
I was going to chime in to say I agreed about the map being clumsy and hard to use, but then you dissed on my MacBook. You wouldn't know usability if it hit you upside the head.
Poisoned Al @ Dec 23rd 2008 6:09AM
No, it was more of a dig at the people that use them... like you. :D
meist3r @ Dec 23rd 2008 8:23AM
If they actually made the overworld fun to explore instead of a collection of hideous lifeless buildings and combine that with the ingeniuos weirdness of the missions and minigames/jobs the next NMH could be a top seller. I know I loved the first one. Gotta appreciate that ultimate weapon upgrade joke...
Almadi @ Dec 23rd 2008 8:25AM
The Wii is a Paradox
A game that truly needs open enviroments like Castlevania doesn't get them.
On the flip side, a game that would be great with only one on one battles like No more Heroes has these very long and boring open world segments.
What next?
A Resident Evil Tetris game
A Kirby Survival Horror Game
I feel like a 3rd class man, I wanna be a 1st class man.
meist3r @ Dec 23rd 2008 8:45AM
See that's where the marketing people got you my friend. You own the best selling console, with some of the most innovative games in decades and you're crying about 3rd class man? Just because they DIDN'T give us a shit Castlevania 3D? What do you want "Dracula May Cry"? Stop buying into the hype, look at the PS360 as what they are, re-iterations of old concepts that have been sprinkled with glitter. I am a bit fed up by the minigames myself but I know once I beat the next Wii-only Zelda I'll be glad I own the thing.
Almadi @ Dec 23rd 2008 8:56AM
Mad scientists are not innovative.
Games like Trauma Center and Zack & Wiki are great and they are the good type of 'innovative' dumping whatever into a disc shaped pot and slapping a W, an i, and another i, does tend to unnerve people who are $250 short.
Forget a 3D Castlevania, at least make a 2D one. But don't, DO NOT go CAPCOM on me Konami.
samfish @ Dec 23rd 2008 9:05AM
Open world Castlevania??
oh LAWD PLEASE no! That would be awful, in my opinion.
...I hate open world games, though. I get lost in them too easily and that makes me frustrated which means I'm not having fun, thus the game gets turned off.
Gonzo @ Dec 23rd 2008 4:45PM
I actually like the idea of a sandbox castlevania game. They already are kind of, just not 3d. I think a lot of cool stuff could be done for the whip with the motion controls.
On the other hand, if they did completely get rid of the tedious open world segments of NMH, everyone would realize how repetitive and uninspiring the boss levels really are.
Dr Jeckyl and Mr ESC. @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:34AM
I liked that game but sometimes the level design feels cheap and the open world well I have no objections there.
I might play it again sinc eI never finish it.
Megadanxzero @ Dec 23rd 2008 11:51AM
So are they gonna make the open world good and leave the rest of it shit, or are they gonna improve the rest of the game too?
Gonzo @ Dec 23rd 2008 4:47PM
Yay! I'm not alone.
Sometimes I feel like the lone sane person on a planet full of basket cases that would clap and giggle if you played Disaster Movie over and over for them.
Megadanxzero @ Dec 23rd 2008 4:50PM
I know, it's tough... Slap the word stylish on a game, put it on the Wii and suddenly everyone'll love it...
Moptimus Slime @ Dec 23rd 2008 5:21PM
I know right? I mean, look at the PS3, there are no games that use a unique art style that people love. And there certainly weren't any stylistic games coming out last generation. hold on, there seems to be someone knocking on my door. Oh hey there every game made by Clover, the PixelJunk series, new Prince of Persia, Braid, Valkyria Chronicles,etc.
Megadanxzero @ Dec 23rd 2008 6:01PM
Aaah, it's wonderful how people will take from a sentence nothing more than they want to see...
There are plenty of games that have unique visual styles, most of which were made by Clover last-gen. How well did Okami and Viewtiful Joe sell though? Not very well. Killer 7 did even worse. From the sound of things people aren't amazingly happy about the new Prince of Persia either...
Anyway, what I was actually saying was that shitty games do well on the Wii because they're on the Wii, and as soon as you say a game has a style, or is stylish people now jump all over it. I wasn't saying the two things have to happen together, they were separate points. To be honest I don't even get why anyone said NMH was stylish. It looked like any other bad PS2-quality game, with more contrast in the lighting. They didn't even get that right, it looked shit...