LittleBigPlanet data loss caused by BigBigGlitch

Is it too much to ask that game developers release a WORKING game instead of rushing a bork'd product out the door and spend the next year patching it?

It's better than a bork'd product that never gets patched.

"Is it too much to ask that game developers release a WORKING game instead of rushing a bork'd product out the door and spend the next year patching it?"

I don't think you understand just how expensive/time consuming testing for bugs truly is. It can only go so far, too. God, do gamers even think before they complain nowadays? This is a game where the gamers create the game world. There are going to be bugs. It is a newish concept realized in new, complex ways. There are going to be bugs. Hell, I'll make things simple. It is a game. There are going to be bugs. Bugs have been around forever. How long have we truly been complaining about them? Ever since patching began, because for some reason, we're under the impression that bugs are these easy things to sort out and that, if you're a half decent developer, you WILL catch every last bug before the game ships. Which is not true. It is almost impossible to catch every bug in your game, even if you have a humongous budget. It's all dependent on the nature and design of the game (you're not going to find many bugs in a racing game... a sandbox game, on the other hand? GTA4 cost $100 million and probably had an all-star beta testing team and still had it's fair share of glitches), and if you have a game where the content is decided by the gamer? Well, there are millions of us out there, and therefore millions of possibilities. Meaning that the myriad of possible problems with this game aren't going to be caught in beta testing. The more obvious ones? Sure. This, though? I doubt it could have been caught, and now that it has, a solution is likely in the works. So, lemme ask, what the hell is the big deal? Yeah, some people lost their data (myself included). If this were five years ago, we'd be shit outta luck, and this'd still be a problem that wouldn't have been caught in testing (this just in! having the ability to patch games doesn't mean devs are gonna rush the games out... games are just more complex these days, duh).

Fatass, I'm not going to pretend I read all of that, but I'll just say two things:

1. Nobody on these forums expects a game to be 100% bug free.

2. That doesn't mean that any level of bugginess is therefore acceptable in a game. Once you hit a certain number of bugs that interfere with playability, people get angry when they paid full price for the game. Games like Fallout 3, Castle Crashers, and LittleBigPlanet should not have shipped without another round of QA.

@The Fatass of Kickassness - Maybe you're not old enough to remember the days of NES, Genesis, SNES, etc. where a downloadable patch was not an option. Sure, those games had bugs in them too, but technically, they were every bit as complex as the games that come out now, and they only contained a fraction of the bugs.

Testing can and should be done, and these sorts of oversights should be avoidable. It's not a matter of games being too complex to test - it's a matter of meeting certain development milestones (like going gold) no matter how much testing has been able to happen, in order to make budgets fit and the suits happy.

I'm happy we can patch games, because it can prevent those occasional game-stopping glitches that do make it past QA from ruining the experience for people. And I am not saying that Media Molecule cut corners, but when developers start using a 'release first, patch later' mentality, it hurts the consumers, and will eventually hurt the developers / publishers as well.

The Fatass of Kickassness--

You asked, "Do gamers even think before they complain nowadays?"

The answer to that question is: No, they do not. Most people don't care about fact-checking their beliefs, attitudes and opinions before they speak. That sucks, but it's life with human beings.

@Marty

"they were every bit as complex as the games that come out now"

your whole post is wrong just by this sentence.

Am I the only one that's amazed by how many people seem to jump to defend failure of these game developers/corporations? It's almost as if everyone has forgot there used to be a time when console games couldn't be patched, and bugs were a lot less prevalent then. Now that they can be patched, the corps skimp on testing since they know it's not fatal.

Reader, you fail to acknowledge that game development is a hell of a lot more complicated than it used to be, and that games that haven't been tried before such as this are pretty prone to bugs.

I'm not jumping to defend corporations. I'm jumping to stop whining by people who think that every bug out there is fixable in beta despite the fact that games are much more complex than they used to be and that, to fully test one of today's games, beta testing AS WELL AS on-market consumer feedback (in other words, our bitching about problems that they couldn't catch) are both necessary. When I say 'bitching', however, I don't mean that we should be whining about lazy devs, because most games these days are pretty high budget and have great beta teams. I mean that, if we catch a problem, we should let them know about it and let them take it from there.

Jakka, if you think that games of old are even half as complicated as the ones that come out today, you're an idiot. Hell, you don't even have to know how developing works to figure that out - take one look at dev costs and how long it takes to develop and test games nowadays when compared to how things used to be, and the answer becomes obvious.

"I don't think you understand just how expensive/time consuming testing for bugs truly is."

Is this the part where I'm forced to play the "Expert Card" and reveal that I actually do, as I have worked in software developement for the past 3 years. Which includes laying out requirements, planning the design, building the code, and testing for major bugs (such as content not being saved or being erased).

Do YOU actually have any idea how many bugs are in the software you buy that either never go fixed or are discovered and fixed without you ever being aware they existed?

"Jakka, if you think that games of old are even half as complicated as the ones that come out today, you're an idiot."

Take a second, think it through, and you'll realize you're being a bit naive.

The thing about software developement is once you find a good way of doing a specific task...you can just do that same thing every time. It's one of the fundamentals of solid code, reusability.

So if you consider that when games were first being developed, EVERYTHING was new. There was new "best practice" or "established way" of doing things, and thus everybody and their mother were wasting time reinventing the wheel.

By now, most developement studios (or any worth their salt) are going to find ways to use elements from existing products...it's the whole concept of building on "the ___ engine".

I know what you're saying, T, but what I meant was that, in this day and age, even if you're building on a time-tested formula, you have to try at least SOMETHING new/creative/original to get yourself noticed in the sea of high-budget titles, and therefore you end up treading new waters.

Data storage is not a new thing to gaming. If anything, saving content should be one of "those processes" that developers have down pat by now.

This has actually turned into a half-decent, intelligent discussion....

It doesn't wipe your old progress, it just stops saving.

The problem stems from filling up the alloted space in your profile, so the game just stops saving everything you do beyond that point. Free up space by deleting all the community items and stickers you don't want.

I have an easier fix. I'm going to wait another six months before I pick up this game.

By then, I hope they will have addressed data loss bugs, moderation and search issues, laggy online play, and they will have delivered the online co-op level design features they promised.

I still have high hopes for this game, but I am not going to fight my way through it.

I prefer my way.

Thats not a fix. Thats something we do if no fix is released.

Holy crap, why did that get voted down? All I did was post how to fix the problem...

I feel like I may have outstayed my welcome here at Joystiq. *Everything* I post gets nega-nuked now days.

Dude, Hyams, it's all right. Just don't care about it, I don't. Things get voted up or down all the time, it's not because we don't like you. If you leave, then it's possible 5 huge morons will replace you. I still totally love you, bro. Let's play some gamecube...

*flees

I am guessing they voted you down because they don't see it as a fix that people have to delete the content they have gathered. Most people would want the makers of the game to make a patch that gives them a game without the chore of figuring out what they want to keep and delete to keep playing. Your idea is more of a workaround.

Yet, I don't think people should jump on you for your advice. Its a way to keep playing until a fix is made.

That's all I meant it for. As Joystiq said in the article, MM will almost certainly be releasing a patch to fix the problem soon.

Hmmm... should I vote your nega-nuke comment up because it's true that you have overstayed your welcome here, or should I vote it down just out of principle? What a dilemma!

That was a very rude thing to say

Marty, pal, nobody here is in a position to suggest anyone has 'overstayed' their welcome. Good lawd, I feel like I'm almost in the minority of regular posters who really could care less about the flames that've been roasting here lately. It's the same old, but it appears people are flipping out here lately, moreso than usual.

It's a friggin' videogame blog, yeesh. We need a nice one liner from Deaftly, settle things down a bit.

On vacation here in the goddamned midwest back home, shocker the weather blows, off to another cocktail and some Fallout 3 :) Later all

@copa

Search issues and laggy online has already been fixed in a patch, finding levels is so much easier now.

Yayy! I posted three times in a matter of less than 10 min! I have no life! YAYYYYY!!!

Because spending ten minutes on a blog must mean I have no life?

Said SirFishose, apparently unaware of his presence at a comments section of a gaming blog.

What the hell is wrong with you people? Everybody knows that you're cool if you 11 minutes between expressing your opinions.

Thats a fact.

So now I'm gay AND have no life?

Tell me more, because clearly you know me better than I do.

I think Sir knows that he is being a dick.


I shall dub this invention.....SARCASM!

I'd say the closer your posts are spaced together the more of a life you probably have, since maybe you sat down at the computer for 10 minutes but won't return for a while because you're out doing something. It's those people with multiple posts 30 minutes apart that are suspect.

Or, how about this: it's the people that waste their time coming here only to grief others that have the least life of all.

Hyams fanboy is starting to show. Sometimes he's pretty objective, but it's clear he's here to defend the PS3 whenever possible. :\

So with 33 comments to your name, that means 1/11th of your comments are part of this asinine little display.

Good show, sir, you shall be a great asset to this community.

Nice... I have other names that I've used here. Names that your mother is probably familiar with. Ask her.

I am more of a Reader than a follower. Did you catch that?

I take that back Mr Khan... You seem like a nice fellow.

I enjoy reading all the stories and posts here on joystiq. As an avid gamer, it's sites like joystiq that are good to have around. Some of us just don't get to post as much as we'd like to. It's the young punks that get the better of me ;)

Wow all this because of ME?

Ridiculous...

hyams you're such a fanboy

Tsst tsst!

The funny part was LordVesper showing up

Joystig makes me lol

Lord Vesper:

Aww, you know I love you really.


Cellien:

I've worn the 'fanboi' badge on my chest since I first started posting here.

Achievemn- er...Trophy Unlocked: Biting the Hand that Feeds You

actually, I guess that would be Trophy Earned: Biting the Hand that Feeds You

my mistake