Pachter: Wii sales surpass PS2's initial 2-year performance
While Nintendo's astonishing performance in November may render Pachter's bet a safe one, trumping the massively mainstream PlayStation 2 is nonetheless what we in the business call "a big deal." If December's NPD results reinforce the analyst's claim, it may even fuel his assertion that 2009 will offer more Wii hits from third-party developers -- albeit in the form of "mainstay" fare. Still, if the Wii is to become the new PS2, maybe someone will give the system its Shadow of the Colossus.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Shagittarius @ Jan 6th 2009 4:01PM
My mom just got this for christmas, and Wii fit.
My mom, hates videogames and I asked her why and she said that its not a videogame machine.
When I told her I was concerned about the mainstream diluding and dumbing down my hobby she replied. "Well I don't care about video games anyways."
I fear for the future of games developement.
Moofree @ Jan 6th 2009 4:10PM
So long as the DEVELOPERS still understand that they're supposed to be making games, the future is good.
But when did we start seeing them forget this fact? 1982?
colinbell @ Jan 6th 2009 4:12PM
Well, not really. There are 50 million PS3 + 360 consoles out there, and together likely to grow by at least 20-25 million next year, thats a pretty large install base - the gaming industry should do ok. "Core gamers", contrary to what Nintendo would like to tell you, is not a small niche segment, its tens of milions of gamers who have different tastes in games ranging from RPGs to shooters to strategy.
And yeah, I really hate the "games should cater to non-core" crap. Would you have, say, action sequences in Sex and the city so that it caters to male audiences? Anyway, if you want to compare wii fit to MGS, why not compare sales of Ludo or scrabble as well? The wii is NOT a gaming console, period, (try comparing a list of games on the PS2 in its first 2 years versus the wii) its a "game" console for those who DONT do gaming!
Mr Khan @ Jan 6th 2009 4:14PM
And so colinbell is the first to bring the hate, FUD, revisionist reality, and general ignorance into this thread
you, sir, deserve a prize
WRE @ Jan 6th 2009 4:24PM
So your mom plays games and now you're scared that you'll stop liking them? That's just such a weak argument...
NoughtSoClever @ Jan 6th 2009 4:30PM
The Wii's biggest problem is it's popularity. It's second biggest problem is that the big 3rd party devs did not take it seriously _initially_.
So, when they saw that the sales were crazy, everyone wanted to cash in before it was too late, which means shit games that were developed overnight, and in troves.
So while the Wii IS technically a game console, it has little to do with it's sales performance.
NoughtSoClever @ Jan 6th 2009 4:31PM
it's => its. Please excuse my shitty grammar.
Lee @ Jan 6th 2009 4:34PM
Shag shows his age, and indeed it must be young since he didn't know what happened in the 80's with the birth of the NES.
Moptimus Slime @ Jan 6th 2009 4:37PM
this argument of "Casual" VS "Core" seems oddly familiar...
*FLASHBACK*
"You own a NES? What are you, retarded? The Genesis is were its"
"The NES only has 2 buttons, the Genesis has 3. So therefore it is better"
"We do what Nintendon't"
yeah, Nintendo is falling back on their old habits. You know, the ones that made them totally irrelevant to the world while the Genesis sold like hotcakes and crushed the Super NES
SoulBlade @ Jan 6th 2009 4:46PM
"My mom, hates videogames and I asked her why and she said that its not a videogame machine."
Sounds like she doesn't quite know what a videogame is or has a really bad perception of them.
What exactly is a videogame to you guys where you can argue that the Wii is not a machine that plays videogames?
starsforeyes(XBL) @ Jan 6th 2009 5:01PM
Oh come on!
My parents own a Wii and my mom owns a DS. My dad bought her Wii Fit, Tomb Raider and DDR over the last year. I bought them Tetris Party. During my vacation back home my dad and I sat down and played Tomb Raider together by passing the controller back and forth. I made a fool of myself in front of my family playing DDR and we all had a good time playing Wii Fit (I'm actually buying it when the price goes down a bit).
Since they lack blu-ray, but have an HDTV I thought it would be a funny joke to buy them Transformers (their favorite movie) on Blu-ray. My dad had a good laugh and then told me he's going to buy a PS3 because it plays video games, too. While the Wii didn't introduce them into gaming (Atari did). They're more open to all of the systems this generation because of the fun we had with the Wii.
Even though I play my 360 more. I applaud Nintendo with what they're doing. I'm slowly converting more people into playing video games with me. They aren't watering anything down, they're bring more people in. Win win.
J-Link @ Jan 6th 2009 5:50PM
I totally agree with starsforeyes. Nintendo may be catering that much for the core but they're trying new things, just like they did with the NES. Anyway Nintendo needed to go for a different angle because look at what happened with the cube and if they released a concole like the 360 or the PS3 they would probably not have sold as much.
Evan @ Jan 6th 2009 6:40PM
@colinbell
You are correct that "core gamers" have tastes ranging from RPGs to shooters to strategy. The problem is developers have forgotten this, and seem to think "core gamers" = "shooter fans".
The PS2's top franchises (Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Madden NFL, and Ratchet & Clank) spanned many genres. So I think it's safe to say that "core gamers" included RPG fans, racing fans, platformer fans, etc, not just shooter fans.
But this generation Sony and others seem have abandoned those other genres to focus on shooters. This makes no sense, because those other genres sold very well.
t_m @ Jan 6th 2009 11:05PM
I like firefly and farscape, but the mainstream public seems to only want to watch mainstream stuff like Stargate. I fear for the future of sci-fi tv.
This argument is so surreal. We have vastly different spectrums in the music, movie, book, tv and magazine spectrums...
the creation of a magazine about knitting for grannies doesn't spell the end of my magazine about video games.
the creation of The Carebears Movie didn't prevent the creation of Pulp Fiction.
If you aren't interested in it then ignore it.. stop whining and worrying...
Gehodra @ Jan 6th 2009 11:16PM
"The man they call Jayne..."
Sorry.
Questworld @ Jan 9th 2009 1:56AM
So there's this thing called a PC, it plays video games AND other non-gaming related application. I mean isn't that what people touted the Playstation brand brought to the table - the ability to have expanded functions like playing music and movie discs. Well you can't complain about the Wii "destroying" gaming and then complain about the Wii not having DVD playback, especially when the software people complain about that are "non-games" are more games than the movies these systems are suppose to be able to play.
Mr Khan @ Jan 6th 2009 4:05PM
You wouldn't think that the console responsible for fragmenting the market would be selling faster than the console that totally unified it
Dirty @ Jan 6th 2009 4:06PM
Interesting point
guttertalk @ Jan 6th 2009 4:46PM
Fragment and unify how? Unless the PS2 pulled every gamer to it, it didn't unify on a platform.
And different game markets already existed. (See http://malstrom.50webs.com/birdman.html.)
I could argue that in a way, the Wii is a uniter, not a divider. :)
I normally see and agree with your point, Khan.
jxcgunrunna @ Jan 6th 2009 4:57PM
I disagree with you. The PS2 is the system that helped fragment the market. There is a large percentage of people who own PS2's that would not have bought an xbox, a gamecube, N64, Dreamcast, 360, or PS3. they see games like DDR back when it was the big thing to have or GH now and they buy the system cuz its cheap now (for the last few years). they are the same ppl who bought a wii
Strategy_Panda (The Sandwich Poisoning Crew) @ Jan 6th 2009 4:57PM
I wouldn't say that the Wii fragmented the market. If anything, it seems to be making video game systems and games in general more accepted among public. I never really understood the argument that the Wii is "watering down" video games. Its like saying McDonalds is ruining the culinary arts. The argument makes no sense to me.
The Wii caters to a casual crowd, and for the most part, those people don't play games like teh Haloz. They just have no interest in those games and developers know that. Thats why you don't seem many FPS/RTS/Arena style games on the Wii.
Developers are watering down (for lack of a better term) "hardcore" games to appeal to a wider audience so they can sell more copies. The audience for those games mainly reside of the Xbox and PS3. If anything its the consoles, and the people who use them, that are creating the situation that leads to the more casual nature of this generations video games.
If you think console games are hardcore, think again. I've been playing through STALKER: Clear Sky and I have spent about 20 minutes playing the game (stopped because I'm waiting to play on a better system). 10 of those consisted of navigating approximately 50 meters into a swamp filled with invisible "spirits" that would kill you in two seconds if you walked into them. Thats a hardcore game.
/end rant
Mr Khan @ Jan 6th 2009 4:59PM
unify in the sense that the PS2 had everything, a good balance of games for all tastes, unifying the wishes of gamers of every description, unless they were hardcore PC gamers or hardcore Nintendo fanboys (yo)
The Wii being the first console that really split the console market into tiers technologically, to speak nothing of demographics, and complicates the picture of what gaming is considerably
Strategy_Panda (The Sandwich Poisoning Crew) @ Jan 6th 2009 6:31PM
I can understand the hardware argument, and agree with you that the Wii is doing a good job at fragmenting the market. I think it is changing the perception of what a gaming console can be/do; but I don't think that the Wii is really complicating what gaming is.
The way I see video games is that it is now, and in the future becoming increasingly mainstream but there will always be tiers of games; from casual to hardcore just as there have always been. I can remember playing things in my youth that wold probably barely qualify as "game." Some were interactive tech demos, typing tools, Myst-like exploration titles and text based adventures, etc.
For me, there are two significant differences between games in the 1980's and games now. Graphics and the amount of people playing games. I think its the fact that more people are playing games now that makes the divide seem more pronounced, as there is just more software being developed to fill demand.
I know this doesn't have much to do with what your saying Mr. Khan, but I just want to get it out there. I really dislike the argument that the Wii is ruining gaming because its simply not true. Its introducing entire generations, old and young, to video games. The kids playing the Wii now will be the ones designing games in 10 or 15 years. We, as gamers, should be happy that the world is bringing the Wii into their homes and accepting gaming as a legitimate form of entertainment.
WRE @ Jan 6th 2009 4:11PM
Aw, fuck. Let me guess how this comment thread is going to turn out...
Haggard @ Jan 6th 2009 4:40PM
Your opinion is ill-considered, sir!
rrdmxjedah @ Jan 6th 2009 4:13PM
the ps2 was still $50 more when it came out
Dante G @ Jan 6th 2009 4:13PM
And it doesn't play dvds out of the box...
J-Link @ Jan 6th 2009 5:53PM
The economy was better than though. Those were the times when food prices were cheap and people were spending more. Now people try to buy the cheaper things.
Superstar90 @ Jan 6th 2009 4:50PM
Anyone buying a 250.00$ Wii in 2008 should maybe... just maybe, consider a 15$ DVD player.
Dante G @ Jan 6th 2009 5:04PM
yeah, my point was that one of the strongest selling points of the ps2 was its dvd player capability. In fact my ps2 was my first and only dvd player for several years.
DBuck_Eye @ Jan 6th 2009 4:15PM
I had no idea the PS2 sold as well as it did. I would have thought that the Wii already passed it's two year mark long ago.
glitched @ Jan 6th 2009 5:43PM
From what I remember, it's not hard to do such a feat. The PS2 didn't do all that well at first. Even the PS3 is doing better than the ps2 did in it's first 2 years.
thispaceforsale @ Jan 6th 2009 4:16PM
it already got an okami
XDragon @ Jan 6th 2009 4:17PM
You would think the console with the largest install base wouldn't have the lowest software attachement rate!
The Wii doesn't have enough good non-Nintendo games. I need a 2nd system to get the mainstream games I want and that really pisses me off!
The Wii could perform better then the PS2 in hardware numbers, but it can't touch the software numbers of the PS2! That could change if some "good" 3rd party games start being released on the Wii.
The best game on the system isn't even coming out anywhere but Japan: Tatsunoko VS Capcom ...talk about an even harder slap in the face!
I'm so let down that the only games I feel I need to own are Wii Sports and Wii Fit. Don't get me wrong, I love the VC but its not enough!
Mr Khan @ Jan 6th 2009 4:21PM
You realize that attach rate is a metric that is biased towards the lower-selling consoles, right? If you sell fewer consoles and equal software, your attach rate is going to be higher
According to that metric, Resident Evil 4 sold much better on the GameCube than the PS2, a 5% rate as opposed to a 1%, but the PS2 version beat it
samfish @ Jan 6th 2009 4:21PM
"You would think the console with the largest install base wouldn't have the lowest software attachement rate!"
Silly goose, PS3 doesn't have the largest install base!
Haggard @ Jan 6th 2009 4:41PM
GTA4 on PS3 had a 50-75% attach rate in the UK.
XDragon @ Jan 7th 2009 9:38AM
The point is, if you sell more hardware, there are more people buying software...or so you would think!
Its basic math and doesn't favor anything; you're suggesting that people buy more games if there system has a lower install base! That's just stupid and so is the opposite: there more Wii systems sold so there has to be less software sold? Just ignorant and very poor math skills! Its a ratio and each system's software sales are divided buy that system's hardware sales, meaning its all the same regardless of install base!
XDragon @ Jan 7th 2009 10:02AM
Just to clarify because I know you'll miss my point again!
Attach rate is a ratio, it is not a measure of how much has sold.
You're point of RE4 proves you don't understand what's being measured.
No one is talking about total software sales, we are looking at a ratio of how many games are bought per console which AGAIN, is not biased!
If there were only 2 PS3's sold, and 10 games sold, the attach rate would be 5 games per system sold! But the Wii could have 100 systems sold and 200 games sold which works out to 2! Its clearly not biased, its basic division based on sales. Futher to the point, the 360 has a larger install base then the PS3 but the 360 has a higher attach rate!
Sorry to rant on, but stupidity really pisses me off.
Little Big PSN ID: johnnynumber5 @ Jan 6th 2009 4:20PM
Well it's not really surprising considering the Wii has been damn near impossible to find for two years. Most would agree that the biggest difference between the PS2 & Wii is that the PS2 had the hardcore games to go along with the casual titles. The Wii is mostly casual where as the PS360 are mostly hardcore. None of them have really been able to capture the same lightning in the bottle that the PS2 was able to.
If we look at the longterm viability of the platform I really have to question whether or not it will be able to reach the overall sales stratosphere of the PS2.
I know the x-box fanboys (and fernando the Playstation troll) want to talk about how the PS3 will never catch the 360 in worldwide sales. I think that could be accurate but with the new 360 price cut I can foresee a situation where the 360 might catch the Wii. Especially with their new focus on family and casual titles.
Mr Khan @ Jan 6th 2009 4:24PM
How many price-cuts have Microsoft had to go through to get where they are, though. And how many price-cuts, to date, has Nintendo pulled?
If all things remained constant, they could be able to. But Nintendo's been holding back while Microsoft went balls-to-the-wall
Little Big PSN ID: johnnynumber5 @ Jan 6th 2009 4:40PM
But we have discussed before that Microsoft can afford to throw money away to gain market share. I wouldn't put it past them to give people money and the console to gain market share. Why does Nintendo have any incentive to reduce the price when they still can't keep the supply up to the demand?
Moptimus Slime @ Jan 6th 2009 5:00PM
Heres the real difference. When Nintendo goes and makes a truly "Casual" game, they make productivity software, such as Wii Fit or Personal Trainer: Cooking (I still think they should've kept the Cooking Navi title) that are useful outside of the "Gaming World". When Microsoft goes and makes a "Casual" game, you end up with You're in the Movies! A game that isnt helpful to anyone. But then again, Kazumi Totaka did create Wii Music...so each company has their skeletons (or gibdos) in the closet.
Also, I think the PS2 and GBA showed us that you just can't get the best of both worlds. For every good "casual" focused game you had, there were at least 30 "Barbie gets a Fixed Rate Mortgage" games that flooded the shelves. Same on the Wii, for every Boom Blox, there are 30 mini-game collections made by Ubisoft who seems to be under the impression that people still care about them a year and a half after they stopped selling. And thats only the US! I hear reports that Europe is a helluva lot worse.
And then you have the Japanese, who finally seem to be "getting it". A lot of people have wondered why CAPCOM is making a Dead Rising port for the Wii and I think I've finally figured it out. Its to build a market for when they drop Monster Hunter 3 (or G, whichever comes first). That's why I was surprised when SquareEnix didn't announce anything about Dragon Quest IX coming to the Wii along with the DS a la Echoes of Time, but then again Dragon Quest is a series Square knows people will buy a Wii to play, so maybe they feel they dont need to build up a market. And if you ask me, the only way for ATLUS to go with the Persona series is the Wii, less they dump over a years worth of development money into a PS3 version where they may or may not make back the money they spent.
PSN: Aggie_CEO @ Jan 6th 2009 4:25PM
who would have EVER thought that???
hmmmmmmm
Hala Madrid!! (Somebody get me a tie! And it sure as hell better be red!) @ Jan 6th 2009 4:30PM
Why people like the Nintendo Wii so much?
I think that's the million dollar question.
Lee @ Jan 6th 2009 4:39PM
Because it's fun. Granted there aren't many big serious games on that system but they've been much more enjoyable and long lasting than anything I've played on the other systems.
It's just quite hilarious how people forget about the utter turd games on other systems, like how the PS2 had a squillion BS games and about 5 games worth buying. Didn't stop people verbally felating it.
jorojoserojas @ Jan 6th 2009 4:41PM
It's fun to play, and has some good games going for it.
It's true, I own more disc-based games on the 360 (21 games, 11 of which are multi-platform with the PS3) than the Wii (13 games), but to say that the Wii isn't a good system is nonsense.
Enjoy gaming, regardless of the console. Don't limit your selection!
TracerBullet @ Jan 6th 2009 5:13PM
@ Hola Madrid:
Fun, easy to use, makes you and your frinds laugh and spent some happy time together, fits anywhere, has inovative periphericals and ways to play (see Let's Tap for one of the best examples)
One thing strikes me as odd on this fanboy wars... people say Wii doesn't care about games, but it's the only system that does nothing but play games.
Hala Madrid!! (Somebody get me a tie! And it sure as hell better be red!) @ Jan 6th 2009 5:20PM
I couldn't agree more guys, but I do think that the Wii could use some other games not just "casual games" and better controls as well, I have nothing against the Wiimote and the balance board, but is just not for me.
Playing games with your ass FTW! tho.
Mr Khan @ Jan 6th 2009 4:34PM
And the 3rd-party thing has gotten progressively better. Just don't expect the same kinds of games as dominate the PS360, games which have obviously found their markets, and where their developers are more comfortable working and their publishers more comfortable marketing to
Think about SEGA's big 4 Wii titles for the first half of the year: The Conduit, MadWorld, Sonic Black Knight, and House of the Dead: Overkill. Except for The Conduit, they are all distinct, and The Conduit is distinct in the fact that it stands alone as far as realistic FPSes on the platform go, and the fact that it takes full advantage of the excellent controls
You're not going to see the photorealistic story driven epics that dominate on the other platforms, but you are going to see more quality products starting to arrive in proportion to the endless array of trash