Rumor: Patent hints at casual Zelda title

If you thought Twilight Princess was easy stay the hell away from Fable 2.

If you're upset about how "easy" Twilight Princess was, then I'd stay the hell away from gaming in the coming years. Maybe find a new hobby, like knitting.

That's a great idea! I think I'm gonna go and knit my dream game.

Dragon Lance: Dragons of Summer cross stitch patterns...


By the way does anyone know of anything at all.. ANYTHING about a Dragonlance game that has been made, is currently being made, or will be made? I want one so much...

On second thought, I just answered my question.. I'm making one... out of wool aren't I?. Any one want to preorder?

I'll preorder but I don't have a wool player, is it coming out to polyester 3 or will it be exclusive

(i am ashamed at how lame this ended up being but i'm posting it anyway dagnabbit)

As long as they don't make you burn the rope to kill the boss monster.

So is TP easier than Fable 2? I'll be honest Fable 2 wasn't hard at all; I have never played TP though.

Which RPG (Not JRPG because some of them have a Difficulty curve that jumps as if it just watched the Kfee ad) is really hard?

I think Diablo 2 in Hell if you don't have a very high level and you have a crappy gear or in games like Neverwinter Nights If you choose the bard or if the attributes of your character are bad distributed.

Of course Fable 2 was harder

What with that archaic gamepad and all

why so green and fuzzy?

Hey, idiot, are you talking about the comments text?

Go here:

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/10/weekly-webcomic-wrapup-tweets-from-the-strip/1#c16502666

This would be the last straw for me. Nintendo is throwing everything away.

I think he was voted down, not because Fable II is actually harder, but that it was never trying to be hard. It's a similar kind of gameplay, but Fable doesn't really have dungeons, difficult puzzles and that sort of thing.

Fable has always been marketed as a casual game, it's a kind of sandbox adventure you just mess around and have fun with.

The next zelda will have you killing bosses by swinging the wiimote as fast as possible while your character moves automatically.
You will have unlimited hearts, so that way the casual gamer doesnt have to worry about dying.
Unlimited arrows, bombs, rupees so that you never run low on cash
The hardest puzzle will be a 4 piece jigsaw of Reggie's face (you will need to compete this puzzle to unlock the master sword which will now kill ANY enemy in 1 hit)

When was the last time a "hardcore" Zelda came out? The first one definitely.. maybe the second. Im not sure if you know, but there has been a whole lot of Zeldas since the Nes, none "hardcore" or Xtreme.

Ditto to OP.

The only thing "Hardcore" about the 3D Zelda games was the Water Temple in OoT. And that was more flawed design than a challenge.

So really, you'd have to go back to LttP or even the original for a "Hardcore" Zelda game

Hardcore and adventure don't really go together. Even the first Zelda wasn't really "hardcore".

I agree with the post I'm replying to though. If the next (console) Zelda is a casual wank fest, my Wii is going right out the window.

You'll play it, though. You know you will. So will we all, when the time comes. God help us.

ok guys, OoT's Water temple really wasn't that bad. It was all down to that last key right? the one you couldn't find. Where is it? its in the freaking center room! raise the water and a platform in the center room will float up, revealing the last hidden key.

Yea,if they ruin zelda in anyway, I will just give up on Wii and sell it.

BananaBoat, when we say "hardcore" we don't mean "guns, shooting, explosions, online deathmatches, etc."

Instead, and this is a stupid way to explain it, when we describe a game as "hardcore", we mean it's a *gamer's game*. And by that definition, Zelda has always been a hardcore series, up until The Wind Waker. With The Wind Waker, Nintendo made a conscious decision to "extend Zelda's reach to all ages" (quoted from Miyamoto), by drastically changing its graphic style to a cel-shaded look (although this could perhaps also be seen as a more "hardcore" move because of its reminiscence to the 2D Zeldas, especially A Link to the Past) and presumably by also greatly easing up the difficulty of the game.

The point is, it wasn't until The Wind Waker that Zelda stopped being purely hardcore, and I think what we're seeing now with Phantom Hourglass and the next Wii Zelda is just the next natural step in that process to convert it to a casual series.



Doesn't make it any better, though. =/

"by drastically changing its graphic style to a cel-shaded look"
Wow, if this was the reason for complaining about Nintendo's new casual direction, then maybe they should stop catering to the fans.

I'd just like to take a moment to point out that Wind Waker kicked absolute ass. That was a pretty deep game world, and I'd personally, definitely shy away from calling it a game for casuals.

Alright guys, good job actually reading what I said instead of just mistaking it for another Wind Waker bashing!

I know what hardcore means. I was replying to someone that was saying that Zelda hadn't been "hardcore" (in the "it's difficult" sense) since it was 2D. I'd argue that Zelda has never been "hardcore" in that sense.

I'd argue that there has never been a non-hardcore Zelda in the other sense of the word hardcore. Wind Waker may have looked casual-friendly, but casual gamers aren't about to sail all over a massive map, and then go from island to island solving puzzles. Add in hints and a breadcrumb trail though, and it starts becoming a lot more casual.

I think someone needs to sit Miyamoto down and explain to him that Zelda is never going to sell copies to casual gamers like Mario does. Zelda has a fanbase, and that fanbase isn't really expanding, but if he starts taking it to casual-land it may start contracting rather quickly. The last thing anybody wants is for there to be a Zelda go-kart racing game, a Zelda party game, or a Zelda baseball game.


(anyone that wants those things can feel free to sod off)

Back to OP, I think I'm going to write 'FUCK YOU' (in nice, caps letters) on my Wii and have it shipped directly to Miyamoto's home.

*downrates everyone who thinks adventure games can't be hardcore*

I've been saying this for a year now.

There's no such thing as a 'hardcore' game, or at least there isn't in the sense that you folk are trying to push it.

If one really must define a game as 'hardcore', it would have to be something that only real enthusiests can wrap their heads around.

I haven't seen a hardcore Wii game since the system debuted.

Same goes for the 360 and the PS3.

When I say hardcore, I mean Steel Battalion hardcore. Not 'uh anything other than Nintendo' hardcore, which is what the word has devolved into.

Hardcore Zelda game????

I'm curious, define hardcore, pleeeeeeease!!!

Its getting quite annoying, they call game like GoW hardcore, any FPS is hardcore, and now Zelda is hardcore????

As I can see it, there's hasn't been anything hardcore about a game, only how you play the game.

The only way a Zelda game is hardcore is that you get 100% and get to know every corner of the game and every glitch it has.

As I can see it, i'm a casual gamer of Metal Gear Solid 4 cuz I only played to see how the story of
Solid Snake ended while I'm a hardcore player on Mario Kart Wii trying to achieve triple star on every cup (currently working my way on crown cup on 150cc) and the best time on the leaderboard

Just to pick out one little thing you said:

"Wind Waker may have looked casual-friendly, but casual gamers aren't about to sail all over a massive map, and then go from island to island solving puzzles."

True, just adding cel-shaded graphics was a rather weak attempt to appeal to casual gamers, but I do believe it was "the start" of the casual trend for Zelda.

"Add in hints and a breadcrumb trail though, and it starts becoming a lot more casual."

Yeah, it's just been snowballing since The Wind Waker.

YES...there is something wrong with that concept. It is called pandering to the lowest common denominator. You buy crap that has been dumbed down for the average retard? I don't. My money is spent on something that provides me with a rich and deep experience that challenges me. Not a stick waving dipshit fest.

Fuck Nintendo if they do this to the greatest franchise in gaming.

Greedy fucking bastards.

Whats that? The average person doesnt have time to devote memorizing pointless button combonations just to pull of a jump attack? FUCK THEM. Games need to be as inaccessible as possible or else they are for retards. Who cares if Prince of Persia is a good game, DID YOU KNOW YOU CANT DIE IN IT? THEY ARE RUINING GAMING FOR RETARDS AND GRANDMAS AND I NO LONGER FEEL LIKE IM SPECIAL CAUSE I CAN PLAY MEGA MAN 2

Shit man, just don't think of the Wii as a gaming system and you'll be fine. As soon as I accepted it, I learned to cope. I mean, I'm not interested in it, but it's not a videogame anymore - so I don't get pissed comparing apples to oranges.

Yeah, because everything should be for idiots like you. God forbid something actually present a challenge. Let us make all TV shows, movies, books, and periodicals...we'll turn them all into Dick & Jane primers.

Your counter-argument isn't even an argument. It is the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "I'M NOT HEARING YOU....NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH....NOT HEARING YOU".

I'm sure you are a huge fan of "Party" games.

Wow, you guys are pretty fired up about this...

1) You don't have to buy a wii/play casual games if you don't like them. Just because it's a video game that doesn't cater to hardcore gamers doesn't mean gaming as a medium is devalued in any way.

2) A system like this actually gives them the ability to make the game harder, you know. If you can skip over the hard parts, they don't need to "dumb down" those parts so in theory they could make a harder game, but make it accessible to people who don't want the frustration by giving them the ability to skip the hard parts.

3) It's all conjecture anyway.

I wouldn't go that far. If you just accept that the Wii will never be your "main" platform, you'll learn to enjoy the gems that appear every now and then.

As for Gavin, go play SFII and tell me that its not a casual "Party" game when it comes to the moves and combos. Yes there are people who take the time to count frames and try to master every move, but at its core, its a very casual game, like a lot of fighting games.

@Moptimus Slime "...pointless weapon combinations just to pull of a jump attack?"? So holding Z and pressing A is 'pointless'?My, are you biased or what?!

That's true. I was more referring to people like Gavin don't need to buy a Wii if they don't want one,

I have a Wii, and while I am a bit disappointed in it, there are still enough games for it that work that justify me not selling it off.

Moptimus, you make a great point except that there's a difference between 'streamlined and challenging' and 'casual and dumbed down'.

@Austin I was talking about games in general, not just the Zelda series. In fact,I'd say that its because the Zelda series has never had that which has kept it around so long. I mean, OoT was the first game I beat start to finish and I was hooked on gaming ever since. Which is why I hope Sony keeps the LBP train rollin' and Rare actually tries to make a good traditional Banjoo game. Whether it be gameplay or story, there are some games that are meant to focus on something other than how difficult they are.

Buzz Killington, there's also a differnece between "this game is hardcore and challenging because of all its depth and strategy" and "this game is hardcore and challenging because it has a flawed design and just horrible controls".

Why is the Super Mario series regarded as good? Because its both "mainstream" and "hardcore". It only takes 60 stars to beat the game, but to get 100% you have to get all 120 stars and Galaxy even had a reason to replay the game 3 times. And that's a philosophy that goes all the way back to the original SMB on NES. I could either go through level by level, or I could find all the hidden warp pipes and skip sections of the game (which is what this patent almost sounds like). And nowadays you have games like Viva Pinata, LBP, etc. Games that are very basic and "mainstream" on the surface, but there are those levels of depth for those who choose to dig below the basics.

The dinosaurs are out in force today, it seems. Still ranting about the end of an era

"ranting about the end of an era"

As much as you guys are STILL looking for something to play on that POS system.

So you have a mystical window into the wii-only owning set?

I have quite a bit to play, thank you very much. You got ripped off by the mystical-window salesman

"Fuck Nintendo if they do this to the greatest franchise in gaming."

Fuck them for putting in a hint system?
That's just illogical. This system, if anything, allows them to make the next Zelda more challengin,which is what "hardcore" gamers want, while still being accessible, while is what "casual" gamers want.

And really, not even casual gamers. Miyamoto was complaining YEARS ago that something like 4/10 people actually BEAT Ocarina of Time. That was a game on the N64, back before these AWFUL, MISERABLE, STUPID, ROTTEN, INSIPID *CASUAL* gamers *RUINED* our hobby!

This is making the game more accessible for those 60% of "hardcore" gamers who couldn't beat Ocarina, too!

Mr. Khan,

I'm curious as to why you (and so many others, it seems) so blindly defend the Wii from criticism when the system has done NOTHING to further the three essential aspects of gaming: story, characters, gameplay. Instead of delivering on the same aspects which made Nintendo a household name (i.e., games that weren't only just accessible to the hardcore and casuals alike, but they actually warranted a purchase), the company and its third parties are only focusing on the arm waving idiots who'll pay $200 for a balance board on Ebay but won't so much as glance at heavily discounted copy of Zak & Wiki.

Face it, the Nintendo you so staunchly support has sold its creative soul to the devil just to separate money from the pockets of arm waving idiots who wouldn't know what a good game was even if you threatened to blow their brains out point blank with a pistol. Let's not forget that this same group of people OVERWHELMING REJECTED their previous endeavor and, had it not been for the "dinosaurs" you're decrying, there wouldn't be a Wii to argue about because Nintendo would've been forced to exit the console business (no one else was buying Gamecubes).

I bought a Wii with the understanding it wasn't a technical marvel or a polygon rendering, normal mapping powerhouse; I bought it with the expectation that I would be able to play the same kinds of games I grew up with, the same memorable wonders that made me a Nintendo fan. I didn't buy it to have the system's library or direction dictated by a bunch of ADD-esque halfwits who find anything other than bejewel-ish mingames or quick time events too hard to pick up.

Perhaps if people like you, Moptimus, and Samfish didn't blindly accept pandering to casuals as acceptable, store shelves and bargain bins
wouldn't be full of technical abortions unworthy of being buried next to ET cartridges in the same desert pit.

What's the big problem? It's not a Videogame System, it's a Video Game System. I don't think it should be discussed on videogame sites, any more than the next iteration of a Tiger Handheld or Leapfrog system should.

I mean, if EA wants to put some sort of plastic Madden overlay out for the Etch-A-Sketch, I'm not going to shit a brick. And it's not like the Wii is taking away consumers from videogame systems.

Oy vey. Where does one even start with all of that?


"Perhaps if people like you, Moptimus, and Samfish didn't blindly accept pandering to casuals as acceptable, store shelves and bargain bins
wouldn't be full of technical abortions unworthy of being buried next to ET cartridges in the same desert pit."

First of all, I didn't hear folks like you complaining about the shovelware that clogged store shelves during the PS2 era.
Granted, I fully agree that Nintendo is long overdue to step in and say "ENOUGH" to companies like Ubisoft who dominate those aisles by having nearly identical games like "Imagine" and "Petz".
Next, *I* don't mind that "casuals" are playing games. I think it's a great thing. They buy what they like, I buy what I like. Sometimes, we buy a game we BOTH like (such as Mario Kart (which I actually dislike, but as an example)) and have fun together.
Those shit shovelware games where going to exist one way or another on the lead selling system, though.
Third parties need to step it up, and they're doing that at least in the first half of 2009. If people like YOU who BITCH and WHINE *ENDLESSLY* fail to buy those games, the Wii's shovelware is on YOUR hands, not mine.

Second, there is no shortage of games to play on the Wii. If all you want are violent bloodfests, you might think that...but you could easily compile a library of 15-20 very good Wii games (most of which are from Nintendo). If 15-20 games isn't good enough for you, than I don't know what to say.
What IS sad is the lack of support from western third parties, as well as NOA's preformance on the Wii. NCL (Nintendo Japan) is doing a great job for new and old players on the Wii. NOA? Fuck Reggie.

Third, I must laugh at you for bringing up Zack & Wiki. Ha Ha Ha! People like to hang that game over the Wii's neck as though if signifies failure, but:
1) Capcom said it exceeded sales expectations
2) You HAVE to be delusional if you think Z&W would have sold better on PS360.


"when the system has done NOTHING to further the three essential aspects of gaming: story, characters, gameplay"

Really? REALLY?! First, story and characters have nothing to do with the system. I could just as easily say that PS3 and 360 have done nothing to further story and characters and I'd be equally right.
But gameplay?! Jesus tap dancing Christ, man — the Wii CHANGED the very CONCEPT of gameplay. It has absolutely furthered and evolved gameplay.

"i.e., games that weren't only just accessible to the hardcore and casuals alike, but they actually warranted a purchase)"

That is entirely your opinion and the masses obviously disagree with you. Personally, Wii Fit warrants a purchase to me. Wii Music does too, but not for $50 bones.


"Face it, the Nintendo you so staunchly support has sold its creative soul to the devil just to separate money from the pockets of arm waving idiots who wouldn't know what a good game was even if you threatened to blow their brains out point blank with a pistol"

Yes, I suspect that games where you blow people's brains out with a pistol is what you consider a "good game".

"Let's not forget that this same group of people OVERWHELMING REJECTED their previous endeavor and"

If you're referring to Wii Music, it's about as much of a flop as LBP is.
If you're referring to Gamecube, the "casuals" didn't reject it. The "HARDCORE GAMERZ" did. "Casual" gamers barely even knew it existed.
The GC was supported by Nintendo's fanbase. Those people are (mostly) all CLEARLY still there, judging by 'core' Nintendo title sales being either inline with previous versions or exceeding them (yes, that includes Metroid Prime 3).
Don't let a tiny, vocal minority on the web make you think otherwise.

"I bought it with the expectation that I would be able to play the same kinds of games I grew up with, the same memorable wonders that made me a Nintendo fan."

Those games are all still there. How does an abundance of shovelware titles prevent you from enjoying those games you supposedly love and grew up with? Is it really SO hard for you to find those good games, individual copies of which tend to outnumber the shitty games, in those alphabetized game racks??
Do you go looking for a Mario game and say, "I CAN'T FIND MARIO WITH ALL THOSE FUCKING 'IMAGINE' GAMES HERE IN THE "I" SECTIONS! RRRRAGH!"

Personally, I don't think you even know any "casual" gamers. If you did, you certainly wouldn't called them ADD-esque halfwits and such. The ones who I would catagorize as "casual" gamers aren't stupid at all. They just want shorter games that focus on pick up and play mechanics, rather than stories.
There's nothing wrong with that. If ANYTHING, you should be MAD that these rotten third parties keep making these shitty games for them to buy, instead of giving them quality games. They're only buying them because they don't exactly have a lot of alternatives, but, like you, would still like to get SOME value out of their damn videogame console.
*THAT* should make you mad. NOT that fact that people who like different games than you do are now enjoying this hobby.
At least WE "hardcore" gamers are regularly getting quality games for us on the Wii, even if the only good ones are typically from Nintendo (or Capcom). Casual gamers only get quality games from Nintendo, too, but not nearly as often as we do!

WALL OF TEXT! WALL OF TEXT! TL;DR!

Gavin didn't read into a Wii-related post and jumped straight to the bashing?

oh man, am I surprised.

oh wait.