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Reader Comments (40)

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 12:14PM fohacidal said

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Wow that was a pretty good read. Out of words D:

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 6:10PM (Unverified) said

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I would just like to say, if your reading this comment Kylie Prymus, that your articles and writing styles are constantly at a surpassing excellence standard, taking a refreshing look to the video game scene; one that in my opinion makes you a real credit to the PS3 fanboy team.

I look forward to reading more from you :)
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Posted: Jan 25th 2009 11:19AM (Unverified) said

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I do read all of the comments and love the discussion that's often sparked. Thanks for the kind words!
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Posted: Jan 25th 2009 1:50PM (Unverified) said

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i second this...

i don't normally read the "Philosony" articles but now i ask myself why not... This was one of the best articles i read on PS3F.

now on topic, i always love "playing the role" in video games. Even in racing games i always have this small backstory i make up just to make the game more interesting (Burnout Paradise is a good example)
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Posted: Jan 26th 2009 2:12AM Haizeus said

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To counteract Tim's gushing, I'll say that this article is full of doodoo and Mr. Prymus should be sent to pasture.



Disregarding that, great article. I feel that there's room for both examples, but believe that the future of the medium is in user driven experiences. I hope Heavy Rain really wows in the amount of options available, and sets a precedent in the industry.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 12:17PM (Unverified) said

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I think multiple endings in a game are great, especially those that award consistency. If I'm a bad guy the whole game, I'd like to see it end like the bad guy I was.

(Slight Fallout 3 spoilers? I guess?):
However, the ending of Fallout 3 was kind of a waste. I played through both bad and good, and the only thing that changed was what the narrator said and a few pictures were different. I'd rather have the developer spend their time on 5 good, different endings than 500 slightly different endings (which aren't that good to begin with).

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 12:26PM (Unverified) said

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Good questions and well written. Enjoyed it very much.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 2:54PM (Unverified) said

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Yeah and the abruptness of Fallout's ending makes it feel like some tacked-on nonsense. Like at the last minute someone said "hey do we have an ending?" and everyone looked panicked.

The level 20 lock and the unable-to-keep-playing-the-game are also downers. My first playthrough, I had no idea, and beat the game by accident. The second time through I avoided the main quest like the plague.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 3:54PM (Unverified) said

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A small level cap also allows for multiple character builds in a short period of time. I too would have liked at least a 30 level cap. But if it were like oblivion it would really take a lot longer for one character build.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 11:53PM (Unverified) said

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Yeah, the Fallout ending definitely does feel tacked-on. Also, I would agree with the 20-level cap sucking. I was pretty disappointed when I realized I was done with the game (as far as leveling). But other than that, it was a great game, haha.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 12:42PM (Unverified) said

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First off, very interesting article. I think multiple play-throughs is a little better, then nobody can really spoil the ending for you. If you get tired of playing the game 4-6 times (maybe more or less) then you can go see the other endings on youtube.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 12:42PM Wiizer said

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Damn you, Kylie! Making me read more than three paragraphs of words...

Posted: Jan 25th 2009 11:22AM (Unverified) said

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It's a hard life, I know. Just be glad I didn't pull out a thesaurus. Or an umlaut.
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Posted: Jan 25th 2009 11:42AM Wiizer said

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:Goes to Google "umlaut":...... OH!

Btw, while I have your attention, I'd love to hear... err... read your thoughts on the effects of Rock Band on gamers. Have you ever played it? I mean, even I sometimes get wrapped up in thinking I can actually play the drums.
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Posted: Jan 26th 2009 11:46AM (Unverified) said

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That's a book length discussion on its own! Like anyone with a soul, however, I love Rock Band and would say the line between "real" and "simulated" musicianship is quite thin and it really doesn't matter so long as you're having fun. For me playing the original guitar hero gave me a small taste of what it might actually be like - so I went out and bought a bass which I'd been thinking of doing for years.

All the same a while back I wrote a piece about the uncanny valley where I tried expanding the idea to other aspects of gaming. A bit later I came across a very interesting piece applying the uncanny valley to Rock Band which you may find interesting.

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/08/30/philosony-yea-though-i-walk-through-the-uncanny-valley/

http://schlaghund.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/rock-bands-uncanny-valley/
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 12:44PM (Unverified) said

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The problem was that they give this (great) japanese horror game to some unknown devs who where afraid of hurting the scence of the game and ending up making a lemon or a fanfic of silent hill.... Maybe thats why the japaneses erased the number 5 of it...and put simply homecoming.

The graphics where dull, the gameplay was like ps1 (choppy movements)...so yeah, if they cant handle the beauty of the previews games...they cant even handle a story.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 12:54PM Deadpool said

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I see what you're saying. If a game does have mulitple endings, they shouldn't make any of the endings that crappy unless you totally act like a psycho throughout the game and did so intentionally.

Two choices to choose from is rather vague. Like the "Shoot your mom" or "Don't shoot your mom" choice doesn't give the player many options. They should have given more like "There has got to be a way out of this" or "Here's the gun because I can't make the call" just little things like that to get more input on how you're playing. It helps if you know whether the characters is optimistic or pessimistic to get a better judgement of character at the end of the game. So they need more smaller choices before the final choice to determine the characters decisions better.

Some games make the decision making better than that. Steambot Chronicals [Ps2] starts the game off with a personality test to determine what kind of character your going to be like. But at the same time you can change your attitude throughout the game. I found that very interesting when I first played the game.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 1:15PM (Unverified) said

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Are those half faces from Jacob's Ladder? Yeah, I get the reference. The second game is still the best in the series.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 1:38PM ocdog45 said

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I think the good games have been doing this for a while. even resident evil 2 had something like this. those games always have massive replay value and most times makes you go back and play it again. not all games are going to be doing that. most publishers are in the business of cashing in and not really caring about things like that.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 5:56PM (Unverified) said

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Personally I enjoy games that provide a dynamic story line. Point to point story lines are very difficult to make dynamic just because all roads lead to the same ending so putting a bunch of choices in the game would be pointless. Some games can pull of a single plot story line and stay interesting, an example of this is Call of Duty 4. The reason this works for CoD is because they keep you busy running shooting and sneaking the whole time. On the other hand however a sandbox game with little to no direction (saints row 2) made me feel like i was in a open enviroment full of mini games to choose from and I lost intrest quickly. GTA 4 was a perfect balance in my opinion of storyline and open world experience.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 2:52PM DragonFlyOgio said

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I don't like multiple endings, developers waste time making scripts and graphics we'll never see. I still haven't played a game i'd play from scratch just to maybe see a different ending.
There were those multiple endings book, horrible concept, i hated the fact i was missing out on most of the book even thought i paid for a whole book.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 3:06PM (Unverified) said

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When you buy a game with multiple endings and see only one, you still get a whole game. you just dont get it from every angle
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 4:01PM (Unverified) said

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You hated Choose your Own Adventure Books?!?!?

Blasphemy I say!

*Protip: When choosing between day time training and night time training in "Secret of the Ninja" choose the day time training or you will reach The End. :D
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 4:29PM (Unverified) said

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Erm...make that "Master of Tae Kwon Do". Geez these CYOA books covered quite a bit! But, yeah. Day time training, lol.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 4:00PM Bakamanzz said

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i liked the article! Very fasinating, i personaly like multiple endings, but fallout 3's ending was very dissapointing... as long as the endings arent " hey your a bad person so you get a half ending!." the endings must stay consistant and must also show effort, even if you play as a bad person. it makes you think of your choices youve made in a game, and in the end makes you have more of a personal connection. as long as its not like "hey your a bad person, you only get a 10 second cutscene!" that would suck! Even if your bad you still played the game and made choices, so at least have some creativity!

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 4:20PM (Unverified) said

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I'd have to say that there's upsides and downsides to both options. If you make multiple endings, you could be left with a somewhat-deflated feeling when you get a shitty ending that leads to you not wanting to play the game through again. Conversely, if they make all the endings interesting, it could be better overall and improve the replay value.
Another downside would be that it'd be hard to fulfill whatever artistic vision they have for the story by putting it entirely in the players hands.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 5:45PM (Unverified) said

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most muti ending games are a let down

like FF x-2 any ending but the good ending sucks
and you only get that if lucky or look up the guide
or you have fallout3 all endings are bad as there poorly done
its like they wanted to brag about haveing so many ending that they just 1/2 assed them

only muti ending game that comes to mind i LIKED
was bioshock even thou in my mind the games over hiped
it was nice to see 2 well done endings

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 6:09PM (Unverified) said

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I'm all for multiple endings but very rarely will i go back and do different actions.

Like Fahrenheit (indigo prophecy), i got the "middle" ending, but i did everything i thought of in every situation; i washed my hands, went out normally, and thought to myself "What would i do?" ate my meal, paid for my meal, left pronto.

I allowed the cop to search my home after hiding the evidence, lied to female police, refused to give the girl to the old hag, made the black cop follow his girlfriend and played out the last thing to the best of my ability but still got my ass handed to me.

I was disappointed with the fact that *SPOILERS* humanity had to stay underground like rats due to the big snow storm.

I tend not to replay games for better endings - replaying a game will never give me the same shock or tension i got first time around. Even though fahrenheit was a great game, with a disappointing ending, replaying it would only give me a satisfying ending with non-satisfying gameplay.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 6:18PM (Unverified) said

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2ed try on this post
lets go over 3 muti ending games i played

1st FF X-2 in this one if you get any ending othere then
the good ending you wasted your time with the game
i HATED that i needed to use a cheat page to get a good ending

next fallout 3 here all the ending suck as its like they
just wanted to brag about haveing so many even the
"good" ending is a let down to me

and last bioshock thou the game is a bit over rated
at lest they did the muti endings well 2 ending and they
did a good job on them that it makes replaying worth it

all and all i dont mind them if the endings are done WELL
and the game play makes it worth it aka fun to play

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 6:40PM (Unverified) said

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Kylie, great read. Thanks for the thoughts.

It was a long time ago, but I do remember the original Deus Ex and how many different directions you could take. I absolutely loved it, and that game has influenced my opinions on many games I've bought since then.

I personally think the amount of games with a linear storyline and a single ending will dwindle, but maybe that's just wishful thinking. They might still be entertaining to play but putting important decisions in the player's hands makes it much more of an immersive experience. Otherwise when you're finished it's just a pretty disc in a shelved case.

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 8:15PM CrimsonRyan said

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This is next-gen, but I'm not feeling next-gen.

I don't have anything sophisticated to say thats really long and well written(Love the articles!), but to be honest, I want to see more games that react to your choices. Say, I kill a major character by mistake, I want it to stay that way and have bad consequences and not just say "Game Over".

I want to feel like its next-gen, not believe so because it has good graphics. While it doesn't make it unplayable, it makes it less of a next-gen title and more of a "Hey, it looks good so lets keep it going."

Posted: Jan 24th 2009 8:46PM (Unverified) said

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Both types of game have their place. A game where your actions actually have an impact on the story, resulting in multiple endings, would be brilliant, which is why Heavy Rain looks so interesting. Instead of 'oops you did that bit wrong, now try again' it'll be 'hey look what you did, now you have to live with the consequences of that'. However linear storylines have their place too, for example the story in COD4 is similar to a Hollywood movie, and to start messing about with alternate endings would ruin it. As long as the developers stick with one or the other it's fine. That's what annoyed me most about Bioshock, they had an amazing story, complete with a genuinely surprising plot twist, and then rewarded our struggles with morality by giving us slightly varying amounts of eve and tacking on three anti-climactic endings. Ahem... /drivelling rant

Posted: Jan 25th 2009 2:37PM (Unverified) said

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See, while I think Bioshock, overall, was not as good as the hype it got, I liked that your actions had consequences and that if you played like a bad person, you got an ending that reflected it. I just wish two of the three endings weren't identical, except for the tone of the narrator's voice. But still, I like when there are multiple endings that reflect the way you've played, instead of Homecoming's random grab bag of endings.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2009 9:47PM (Unverified) said

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As far as games are concerned, I like the idea of a preconceived direction. But you know what you are getting into once you go down that direction.

The multiple playthroughs involve trying out different directions and being rewarded with it's content.

Nothing completely random that makes you feel like you wasted your time playing though with a crummy ending. I hate that. Reward gamers, don't punish.

Posted: Jan 25th 2009 12:00PM Pure Black World Tendency said

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Play the game once, see other endings on youtube = happiness.

And yeah, keep the supernatural/alien bullshit (aka Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy ending) out of Heavy Rain please!

That is all.

Posted: Jan 25th 2009 1:28PM (Unverified) said

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i hate it when the multiple endings hinge on 1 decision taken right at the end of the game

Posted: Jan 25th 2009 4:08PM (Unverified) said

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wow

Posted: Jan 25th 2009 2:32PM (Unverified) said

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I love multiple endings in games. It's always an incentive for me to go back to a game if I know that there are multiple paths through it. However, with Silent Hill: Homecoming, the endings were just amongst many bad things about the game. Why is the UFO ending determined by moral decisions, for example? In the other games, you got the UFO ending by doing specific activities that would have brought you to that ending. Why would not forgiving your father or letting a dying cop live summon a flying saucer? That is stupid. God, I hated that game...

Posted: Jan 26th 2009 5:23AM JaseH said

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Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

_____________________________
Kylie Prymus.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 6:10AM develin said

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Honestly, I don't like multiple endings. Working too many hours, I simply don't have the time to finish games multiple times and that way either feel cheated (by not seeing all of the game) or actually cheat (by seeing the ending on YouTube).

Further I find a lot of 'choices' incredibly shallow. If there are only a few obvious spots at which you make a choice, then the whole process feels artificial. At least I didn't feel like creating my own game while making these choices in GTA - I felt that way, when I decided not to go out with a girl but instead to go on a rampage down town.

Fallout 3 is much better, as the choices are an integral part of the game. Even better is actually "The Witcher" which doesn't even tell you that you make a choice, but later in the game you learn that something you did had an impact. This is even more important, as not noticing that you made decisions is similar disgusting. Why did I get a 'bad' ending? Is simply not a fun question to end a game with.

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