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Reader Comments (109)

Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:33AM darkinchworm said

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Pipes? No. Tubes.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:52AM MLS said

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"It's allll pipes! What's the difference?!"
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:18AM (Unverified) said

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The internet is not a truck!
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:35AM Araman said

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And you guys pay for that service? Man, I'd be raising a fuss. I'm a PSN boy and not once have I ever had a problem that wasn't related to my own home network.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:42AM (Unverified) said

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PSN WANTS to be the bastard step child of XBL

Seriously though, I have all current gen systems and PSN does not hold a candle to XBL.

I'd pay 50 a year for a quality PSN setup.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:43AM Negatron said

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You would raise a fuss because a service you pay for is tampered with by an outsider? Geez, talk about grumpy...

Oh, and yes folks, that is sarcasm. We cannot expect Captain Sarcasm to bail us out every time "they just don't get it".

:P
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:49AM SoulBlade said

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at the very least gamers who have been denied service by hackers should get some kind of compensation like 100 MS points or a government bailout.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:54AM (Unverified) said

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@ soulblade.
Funniest thing I've heard all day!
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:00AM Araman said

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It's funny how quickly the Xbox fanatics jump on anything negative you say about their precious console and service. My intentions were not to bash it, but to compare the two on this particular subject and state my opinion were I an XBL subscriber.

Fact is, if it's a paid service, MS should have the money to develop the tools to make the network more secure from this sort of thing. I mean, you don't see WoW getting DDoS'd, do you?
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:04AM Zertoss said

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I've seen a WoW player get DoS'ed, yeah. I've also seen websites get DoS'ed. I've even seen some poor little old lady in a farming town get DoS'ed. I shit you not.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:18AM Duke said

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Cuso, you don't use XBL so you have no idea what you are comparing to PSN. I have and use both and XBL is simply better - get over it. Both work well, but XBL offers more, which many people are willing to pay for.

Now, lets see how many people really have had this happen to them before you start the $50 a year is a ripoff bs.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:19AM Courtney said

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Try not coming off like a sanctimonious, trolling fanboy, and perhaps people will engage in a discussion with your rather than jumping down your throat.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:20AM Negatron said

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Oh cuso...
It is not what you said, it is how you said it, you and Mr. Rabot should attend my seminar. Its called G T F O, which stands for Great Trolls F*ck Opinions. I will basically cover how to express oneself without coming across as an empty condom.

Neverary 31rst @ Madison Square Garden: 8am - 8:05am.

CALL TICKETMASTERZz!
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:21AM Araman said

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I'm comparing my lack of getting DoS'd on PSN to people getting DoS'd on XBL - is it that hard to comprehend? Yes, we don't know the numbers, but the fact is there's a story on this while there is not one on PSN, so I'm working with the facts I have.

It's Friday people, relax!
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:29AM Duke said

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"..is it that hard to comprehend?"
Y yes it iz, cus I not b smart likes yu iz.

Don't be such a tool. If you think a handfull of jackasses using a DoS attack outweighs the benefits of XBL to the people that use it, then you are having the comprehension problem.

You were doing the typical PS fanboy bit of talking smack about paying for XBL and I am pointing out that you can't talk about a service that you don't use because you can't compare the ups and downs of them and have an advised opinion. I, and many others here, use both and DoS attack possibility or not - it's a better service.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:30AM hfm said

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As a multitude of people have already expressed. This is not a platform specific problem, this is an issue related to your home network connection. The only people that can help you stop a DoS attack is your ISP, and I have my doubts they are going to listen to you if you call up bitching about your online game experience.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:38AM Zertoss said

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The reason you're hearing about DoS attacks on XBL players and not anyone else is probably because XBL players are a more attractive target than, say, WoW players or LBP players, what with all of the stat tracking, racism, homophobia, etc.

That article about the age demographics dominated by the different consoles probably explains a lot of this.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:39AM xenocidic said

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@aggrazel

most games use peer-to-peer connections, Xbox Live simply provides the matchmatching
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:39AM hfm said

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And besides, (lets just get out of the way that I have both consoles and like them both, so I don't have any fanboy allegiance) but maybe no one is reporting being the victim of DoS attacks on PS3 because there is a sizable difference in player base. I don't care how Sony spins the numbers, the number of actual people playing games has GOT to be much lower.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 11:23AM BananaBoat said

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PSN is garbage. It's a big reason why I buy multi-platform games on the 360 instead of the PS3 (I also like the 360's controller more, but that is beside the point). Considering that I paid 70 dollars for 26 months of Xbox live (Basically 35 a year with 2 extra months thrown in) it is a no brainer.

I would gladly pay 30+ a year for PSN to just work like XBL does.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 12:59PM jumpshot said

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Yeah, agreed. You can't compare the two if you don't have both. I do, and I'm happy to pay for Live since, you know, it works. And also there's way more people online.

Home, imho, was a nice idea but does not come close.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 1:45PM Duke said

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Once more eNrique has to come in as the raging ass with his comment. I guarantee you that in comparison between the two of us, I am a f*cking genius.

Now, once again, look at the problem being discussed before you act up. DoS attacks are not themselves linked into the service. So if its part of your complaint about XBL you are simply wrong.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 2:11PM Negatron said

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I respect your needs and wants with a consoles online service but thespecific features you wave off as not needed, i consider an inconvenience like not having a cell phone in this day and age...

Just saying



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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 2:39PM Zertoss said

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If Live's servers were getting DoS'ed, everyone would drop off every single time someone got DoS'ed, but that isn't the case.

Therefore, you, eNrique, are a colossal moron who has no idea what he is talking about.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 3:20PM Zertoss said

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Again, there is no need to hack any server to obtain an IP address. XBL games are peer-to-peer, meaning all of the players are directly connected to one another, so all you need to see the IP addresses of everyone in the current game is to use a tool like Wireshark to look at the packets being sent and received by the 360.

The IP addresses of the sender and receiver are contained in every single packet. That is how TCP/IP works. Knowing this, it is ridiculously easy to get the IP of anyone who ever establishes any sort of connection with you, even over XBL.

There is little Microsoft could do to protect Live users. There is little Sony could do to protect PSN users. There is little Valve could do to protect Steam users. A DoS attack is a direct attack against YOU. Your best bet is to report a DoS incident to your ISP and ask them for help.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 4:28PM Duke said

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So, now, what was I supposed to get?

Don't be so quick to jump down my throat next time.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 11:12PM Fraggy4 said

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You all have it way wrong. WFC FTW
/me facepalm
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:41AM (Unverified) said

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I second that Cuso - WTF with charging for Ecksbawks live when it's open to interference from angry nerds???

That's really not acceptable for a paid for service!
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:44AM Zertoss said

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DoS attacks are everyone's problem. PSN, Steam, etc. are all just as susceptible, because it completely shuts you off from the Internet.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:50AM (Unverified) said

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On a free service, it would be acceptable, but when you pay for a service you would expect them to spend some of that money preventing things like this, No?

If this happened and it took a week to get back online do you thing Microshaft would refund a weeks worth of subscription? I very much doubt it.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:55AM (Unverified) said

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You pay for your internet, and you're still open to DoS attacks. In fact, you're likely more open to them than any of the big companies such as Sony or Microsoft. At least they have technicians that can fix it, while you only have yourself. And you still pay for the internet.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:56AM Zertoss said

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Yet it's perfectly acceptable to pay your ISP for a service that is exactly as vulnerable.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:57AM xxxsam said

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How exactly are MS supposed to prevent it again? If the games use any peer-to-peer communication, then your IP address can be determined. That - well, that and preferably a zombie botnet, or else just a fast connection - is all a 'hacker' needs to DoS your ass.

If the games are strictly client-server [where the server is controlled by MS] then it should be preventable - there may be issues where IP addresses are revealed in the protocol. I'm guessing they are not, though.

Look to your ISP for possible filtering or other protection against DoS attacks, but it's a hard problem to solve.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:00AM Negatron said

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Your right to an extent yet it seems with your witty wordplay, your focus is on "MS and paying" overall. Paid for or not, you are underestimating the abilities of a hacker. Whether your service is free, or generates billions the same thing can happen.

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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:06AM Premature ejaculation man said

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Its a DoS (most likely DDoS) attack sir. There is little they can really do to prevent it. Anything online based (including Joystiq!) can do little to prevent it other than to close off the connections
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:07AM Premature ejaculation man said

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Golly. My apologies for getting in so late =p
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:09AM Zertoss said

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If you're so worried about getting DoS'ed, call your ISP and ask them to deny all inbound traffic to you. That'll stop those damn hackers!
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:10AM Negatron said

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You know, as i get used to seeing brave men and women fight in the "console wars", i wonder...
Do you really expect to be taken seriously when words such as: "Ecksbawks, Piece of Shit 3, Microshaft " etc. are used in your opinions? Its a double edged razor because with out you there would be nothing to vote down, no one to ridicule. With that said i would to thank you Mr. Rabot.

Thanks for being here.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:37AM (Unverified) said

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So how do these 'Hackers' (incorrect term btw, the correct term is 'asshats') figure out the target's IP address? I guess I always assumed that my XBLA packets went to some server at Microsoft and then was sent from there to whoever I was playing online with. In that case, I shouldn't be making a direct connection to another xbox, therefore packet sniffing shouldn't reveal anything but microsoft's server. But I guess I was wrong.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:43AM xenocidic said

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oops, replied to wrong post.
@aggrazel

most games use Peer-to-peer connections, Xbox Live only provides the matchmaking.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:52AM Zertoss said

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To obtain an IP, you can use a number of tactics. The most covert (and complicated) one is to sniff the connection for XBL traffic and use that to determine which IP belongs to which player. Of course, some people will gladly just tell you their IP address.

And as xenocidic said, XBL games are peer-to-peer, meaning you're connected directly to the other players and not to a central server. Microsoft's servers do the matchmaking, stat tracking, etc.

Lots of good info on this here:
http://blog.spywareguide.com/2009/02/hackers-use-diy-botnets-to-ddo.html
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:59AM vidguy said

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Since the connections are P2P, I imagine Wireshark on a hub with the 360 would be able to pick up the IP of the host. Then, DDoS with a botnet. Simple. I imagine the system is susceptible to a PoD attack as well.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:43AM (Unverified) said

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We have this happen a countless number of times in online competitions.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:43AM Mognet T said

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Friends of friends that i know of through Live can do it. It's great when there is some guy acting like a total-pardon the French-fuckwad during a match of Gears of War 2 and suddenly he isn't on Live anymore.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:45AM (Unverified) said

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I like how they describe a definite increase....I mean 2 people complaining about it compared to nobody complaining about it is a definite increase....still means sod all in the grand scheme of things.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:46AM (Unverified) said

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"off of"

?

Incorrect grammar is acceptable, nay, expected, from those commenting, but shape up, Justin McElroy!
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:51AM xFenixKnightx said

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Justin? Shape up? Bwahahahahaaaa! Surely you jest!!!



I keed, JMac ;)
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:47AM (Unverified) said

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FLAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol the bottom line is that we live in an age where people HACK things. It doesn't matter if I pay for Live. That doesn't guarantee that it won't get hacked you stupid sony fanboys.
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 10:17AM (Unverified) said

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Did you really "lol"?
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Posted: Feb 20th 2009 9:53AM Zertoss said

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I work at an ISP. I've never been DoSed myself, but I've seen it happen to someone else while monitoring traffic for problems. All I did was contact the loser's ISP with a log of the DoS, and they removed his account. Apparently he had gotten a few other complaints.

If you're savvy enough to at least get the offender's IP address, don't hesitate to contact your ISP. They may be able to help you out.
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