Hackers booting people off of Xbox Live

by Justin McElroy { Feb 20th 2009 at 9:31AM }

Denial-of-service attacks are nothing new on the web, but the BBC reports that it's becoming an increasingly large problem on Xbox Live, where hackers are using the attacks to kick other players out of games. Not to get too technical, but the DoS attack basically works like this: Angry data takes your pipes from fat to skinny, so the pictures of aliens getting shot and the sounds of guns firing at said aliens can't get through them. Confusing for the common man, we know, but that's why we went to blogging college.

Microsoft says that it's investigating the attacks. Have any of you been victims?

Tags: hackers, microsoft, xbox-live

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)

dark_inchworm (on Steam!) dark inchworm (on XBL!) @ Feb 20th 2009 9:33AM

Pipes? No. Tubes.

MLS @ Feb 20th 2009 9:52AM

"It's allll pipes! What's the difference?!"

Numerous @ Feb 20th 2009 10:18AM

The internet is not a truck!

cuso26 @ Feb 20th 2009 9:35AM

And you guys pay for that service? Man, I'd be raising a fuss. I'm a PSN boy and not once have I ever had a problem that wasn't related to my own home network.

rov947 @ Feb 20th 2009 9:42AM

PSN WANTS to be the bastard step child of XBL

Seriously though, I have all current gen systems and PSN does not hold a candle to XBL.

I'd pay 50 a year for a quality PSN setup.

Lord Negatron @ Feb 20th 2009 9:43AM

You would raise a fuss because a service you pay for is tampered with by an outsider? Geez, talk about grumpy...

Oh, and yes folks, that is sarcasm. We cannot expect Captain Sarcasm to bail us out every time "they just don't get it".

:P

SoulBlade @ Feb 20th 2009 9:49AM

at the very least gamers who have been denied service by hackers should get some kind of compensation like 100 MS points or a government bailout.

rov947 @ Feb 20th 2009 9:54AM

@ soulblade.
Funniest thing I've heard all day!

cuso26 @ Feb 20th 2009 10:00AM

It's funny how quickly the Xbox fanatics jump on anything negative you say about their precious console and service. My intentions were not to bash it, but to compare the two on this particular subject and state my opinion were I an XBL subscriber.

Fact is, if it's a paid service, MS should have the money to develop the tools to make the network more secure from this sort of thing. I mean, you don't see WoW getting DDoS'd, do you?

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 10:04AM

I've seen a WoW player get DoS'ed, yeah. I've also seen websites get DoS'ed. I've even seen some poor little old lady in a farming town get DoS'ed. I shit you not.

Duke @ Feb 20th 2009 10:18AM

Cuso, you don't use XBL so you have no idea what you are comparing to PSN. I have and use both and XBL is simply better - get over it. Both work well, but XBL offers more, which many people are willing to pay for.

Now, lets see how many people really have had this happen to them before you start the $50 a year is a ripoff bs.

Courtney @ Feb 20th 2009 10:19AM

Try not coming off like a sanctimonious, trolling fanboy, and perhaps people will engage in a discussion with your rather than jumping down your throat.

Lord Negatron @ Feb 20th 2009 10:20AM

Oh cuso...
It is not what you said, it is how you said it, you and Mr. Rabot should attend my seminar. Its called G T F O, which stands for Great Trolls F*ck Opinions. I will basically cover how to express oneself without coming across as an empty condom.

Neverary 31rst @ Madison Square Garden: 8am - 8:05am.

CALL TICKETMASTERZz!

cuso26 @ Feb 20th 2009 10:21AM

I'm comparing my lack of getting DoS'd on PSN to people getting DoS'd on XBL - is it that hard to comprehend? Yes, we don't know the numbers, but the fact is there's a story on this while there is not one on PSN, so I'm working with the facts I have.

It's Friday people, relax!

Duke @ Feb 20th 2009 10:29AM

"..is it that hard to comprehend?"
Y yes it iz, cus I not b smart likes yu iz.

Don't be such a tool. If you think a handfull of jackasses using a DoS attack outweighs the benefits of XBL to the people that use it, then you are having the comprehension problem.

You were doing the typical PS fanboy bit of talking smack about paying for XBL and I am pointing out that you can't talk about a service that you don't use because you can't compare the ups and downs of them and have an advised opinion. I, and many others here, use both and DoS attack possibility or not - it's a better service.

hfm @ Feb 20th 2009 10:30AM

As a multitude of people have already expressed. This is not a platform specific problem, this is an issue related to your home network connection. The only people that can help you stop a DoS attack is your ISP, and I have my doubts they are going to listen to you if you call up bitching about your online game experience.

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 10:38AM

The reason you're hearing about DoS attacks on XBL players and not anyone else is probably because XBL players are a more attractive target than, say, WoW players or LBP players, what with all of the stat tracking, racism, homophobia, etc.

That article about the age demographics dominated by the different consoles probably explains a lot of this.

xenocidic @ Feb 20th 2009 10:39AM

@aggrazel

most games use peer-to-peer connections, Xbox Live simply provides the matchmatching

hfm @ Feb 20th 2009 10:39AM

And besides, (lets just get out of the way that I have both consoles and like them both, so I don't have any fanboy allegiance) but maybe no one is reporting being the victim of DoS attacks on PS3 because there is a sizable difference in player base. I don't care how Sony spins the numbers, the number of actual people playing games has GOT to be much lower.

BananaBoat @ Feb 20th 2009 11:23AM

PSN is garbage. It's a big reason why I buy multi-platform games on the 360 instead of the PS3 (I also like the 360's controller more, but that is beside the point). Considering that I paid 70 dollars for 26 months of Xbox live (Basically 35 a year with 2 extra months thrown in) it is a no brainer.

I would gladly pay 30+ a year for PSN to just work like XBL does.

eNrique @ Feb 20th 2009 12:44PM

"Duke @ Feb 20th 2009 10:18AM
Cuso, you don't use XBL so you have no idea what you are comparing to PSN. I have and use both and XBL is simply better - get over it"
I also use both along with online PC gaming, and I know live is better, but it's not $50-per-year-while-hackers-are-booting-people-off better. I'm HOPING this time you get it xXDUKE TEH GENIUSEXx.

"but maybe no one is reporting being the victim of DoS attacks on PS3 because there is a sizable difference in player base. I don't care how Sony spins the numbers, the number of actual people playing games has GOT to be much lower."
Yep, more people are playing online on PlayStation 3, why? It's obvious that the majority of people who can afford a $400+ console have an online connection, while poeple who buy a $200 console, problably do not.
While this may sound good it isn't, A higher attach rate to online gaming is both good and bad. It implies the PS3's demographic is more hardcore, but also implies that the PS3 is having trouble reaching casual gamers (who can effectively subsidize a system for hardcore gamers).

"As a multitude of people have already expressed. This is not a platform specific problem"
Right now, it is. I've never had DoS over PSN nor PC. And not, Live servers are the ones being hacked, not your ISP's ones. It's ms fault.

Right now PSN does almost everything live does, except for track of users via online, cross game invites and cross game chat (being none of these important for me, but they can be somehow important for some other people).
Not trying to be a fanboy. It's just that I can't stand ms ripping off people this way adn getting away with a buch of sheeps defending it.

jumpshot @ Feb 20th 2009 12:59PM

Yeah, agreed. You can't compare the two if you don't have both. I do, and I'm happy to pay for Live since, you know, it works. And also there's way more people online.

Home, imho, was a nice idea but does not come close.

Duke @ Feb 20th 2009 1:45PM

Once more eNrique has to come in as the raging ass with his comment. I guarantee you that in comparison between the two of us, I am a f*cking genius.

Now, once again, look at the problem being discussed before you act up. DoS attacks are not themselves linked into the service. So if its part of your complaint about XBL you are simply wrong.

Lord Negatron @ Feb 20th 2009 2:11PM

I respect your needs and wants with a consoles online service but thespecific features you wave off as not needed, i consider an inconvenience like not having a cell phone in this day and age...

Just saying

eNrique @ Feb 20th 2009 2:14PM

xXDUKE TEH GENUISE HARCOREZXx
"Now, once again, look at the problem being discussed before you act up. DoS attacks are not themselves linked into the service. So if its part of your complaint about XBL you are simply wrong."

I would tell the same to you, since the hackers ARE attacking live servers (not your ISP's as someone stated before). So yes, it IS linked to the service. GOT IT? (I'm really hoping this time you do).

btw; Let me guess your last name, it is Einstein, isn't it?

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 2:39PM

If Live's servers were getting DoS'ed, everyone would drop off every single time someone got DoS'ed, but that isn't the case.

Therefore, you, eNrique, are a colossal moron who has no idea what he is talking about.

eNrique @ Feb 20th 2009 3:09PM

Zertoss, I am guessing you read the BBC article so I'll do my best in english to explain how it works.
I've done it a couple of times in my University, and the process itself of booting people off the network has nothing to do with the servers, you are correct, but before the "hack" is done, you need to "hack / hung / attack / access" (i dont exactly know the word in english) the server in order to obtain IP's(they are logged in the live servers in this case). That's where the vulnerability of live / ISP / PSN / you PC servers lie.

So yeah, if someone is accesing live servers to obtain IP's, it's ms fault.
(I might be wrong, they could use a different method of obtaining IP's)

"If Live's servers were getting DoS'ed, everyone would drop off every single time someone got DoS'ed, but that isn't the case."
You have to realize that the people behind this ain't doing it for hate, but for money instead, so they have no interest in bringing down the entire network asshole.

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 3:20PM

Again, there is no need to hack any server to obtain an IP address. XBL games are peer-to-peer, meaning all of the players are directly connected to one another, so all you need to see the IP addresses of everyone in the current game is to use a tool like Wireshark to look at the packets being sent and received by the 360.

The IP addresses of the sender and receiver are contained in every single packet. That is how TCP/IP works. Knowing this, it is ridiculously easy to get the IP of anyone who ever establishes any sort of connection with you, even over XBL.

There is little Microsoft could do to protect Live users. There is little Sony could do to protect PSN users. There is little Valve could do to protect Steam users. A DoS attack is a direct attack against YOU. Your best bet is to report a DoS incident to your ISP and ask them for help.

eNrique @ Feb 20th 2009 3:42PM

Well, if that's the case, I was wrong, I tought they were obtaining IP's directly from live servers.

Duke @ Feb 20th 2009 4:28PM

So, now, what was I supposed to get?

Don't be so quick to jump down my throat next time.

Fraggy4 @ Feb 20th 2009 11:12PM

You all have it way wrong. WFC FTW
/me facepalm

Dan Rabot @ Feb 20th 2009 9:41AM

I second that Cuso - WTF with charging for Ecksbawks live when it's open to interference from angry nerds???

That's really not acceptable for a paid for service!

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 9:44AM

DoS attacks are everyone's problem. PSN, Steam, etc. are all just as susceptible, because it completely shuts you off from the Internet.

Dan Rabot @ Feb 20th 2009 9:50AM

On a free service, it would be acceptable, but when you pay for a service you would expect them to spend some of that money preventing things like this, No?

If this happened and it took a week to get back online do you thing Microshaft would refund a weeks worth of subscription? I very much doubt it.

Serio @ Feb 20th 2009 9:55AM

You pay for your internet, and you're still open to DoS attacks. In fact, you're likely more open to them than any of the big companies such as Sony or Microsoft. At least they have technicians that can fix it, while you only have yourself. And you still pay for the internet.

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 9:56AM

Yet it's perfectly acceptable to pay your ISP for a service that is exactly as vulnerable.

sam @ Feb 20th 2009 9:57AM

How exactly are MS supposed to prevent it again? If the games use any peer-to-peer communication, then your IP address can be determined. That - well, that and preferably a zombie botnet, or else just a fast connection - is all a 'hacker' needs to DoS your ass.

If the games are strictly client-server [where the server is controlled by MS] then it should be preventable - there may be issues where IP addresses are revealed in the protocol. I'm guessing they are not, though.

Look to your ISP for possible filtering or other protection against DoS attacks, but it's a hard problem to solve.

Lord Negatron @ Feb 20th 2009 10:00AM

Your right to an extent yet it seems with your witty wordplay, your focus is on "MS and paying" overall. Paid for or not, you are underestimating the abilities of a hacker. Whether your service is free, or generates billions the same thing can happen.

Premature ejaculation man @ Feb 20th 2009 10:06AM

Its a DoS (most likely DDoS) attack sir. There is little they can really do to prevent it. Anything online based (including Joystiq!) can do little to prevent it other than to close off the connections

Premature ejaculation man @ Feb 20th 2009 10:07AM

Golly. My apologies for getting in so late =p

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 10:09AM

If you're so worried about getting DoS'ed, call your ISP and ask them to deny all inbound traffic to you. That'll stop those damn hackers!

Lord Negatron @ Feb 20th 2009 10:10AM

You know, as i get used to seeing brave men and women fight in the "console wars", i wonder...
Do you really expect to be taken seriously when words such as: "Ecksbawks, Piece of Shit 3, Microshaft " etc. are used in your opinions? Its a double edged razor because with out you there would be nothing to vote down, no one to ridicule. With that said i would to thank you Mr. Rabot.

Thanks for being here.

aggrazel @ Feb 20th 2009 10:37AM

So how do these 'Hackers' (incorrect term btw, the correct term is 'asshats') figure out the target's IP address? I guess I always assumed that my XBLA packets went to some server at Microsoft and then was sent from there to whoever I was playing online with. In that case, I shouldn't be making a direct connection to another xbox, therefore packet sniffing shouldn't reveal anything but microsoft's server. But I guess I was wrong.

xenocidic @ Feb 20th 2009 10:43AM

oops, replied to wrong post.
@aggrazel

most games use Peer-to-peer connections, Xbox Live only provides the matchmaking.

Zertoss @ Feb 20th 2009 10:52AM

To obtain an IP, you can use a number of tactics. The most covert (and complicated) one is to sniff the connection for XBL traffic and use that to determine which IP belongs to which player. Of course, some people will gladly just tell you their IP address.

And as xenocidic said, XBL games are peer-to-peer, meaning you're connected directly to the other players and not to a central server. Microsoft's servers do the matchmaking, stat tracking, etc.

Lots of good info on this here:
http://blog.spywareguide.com/2009/02/hackers-use-diy-botnets-to-ddo.html