Consumerist: Self-identified lesbian banned from Xbox Live [update]

I think this whole ToS argument is an excuse for people to say she deserved to get suspended. I'm pretty sure if anyone put they were straight in their bio they wouldn't get suspended or have any actions taken against them. Besides putting your lesbian in your profile is hardly the worst thing on Live.

I've read all the comments on here regarding this issue and would like to say the following.

With each passing day the very people who constantly espouse understanding, humanity, equality, free speech, tolerance and a myriad of other more often than not, cliched terms are the very ones who will stop at nothing to destroy those very rights they cry out about, no matter what it takes.

For most of you have responded on this issue all the aforementioned ideals mentioned above and some I didn't, only apply if the person being responded to thinks/agrees with you and your thoughts. Without knowing anything about the situation other than what this anonymous person has said, the immediate reactions range from statements such as:

"Go back to church and pray to you fucking fake god you useless turd."

Is this an example of the tolerance and anti-bigotry/hatred that you stand for? I have a feeling that if this was some type of religious hatred you wouldn't have a problem and more than likely would add your own log to the bonfire with your favorite anti-God slogan.

"Trolls and idiots are a normal part of life.
Intelligence and kindness is abnormal.

Logic is awesome."

So a person is intelligent and kind if they are pro-gay/lesbian and a troglodyte if they are not? So what if your like me and don't like/agree with the gay/lesbian lifestyle but don't think they should be attacked or harassed and have no issues with being friends with any? That what you do in your bedroom is between you and that person and isn't my business? That ultimately like me, like all of us in the end it's between you and God, regardless of who/what you choose to sleep with or do in our life.

Am I a troll and an idiot or kind and intelligent seeing as how I have traits that fit into both of your criteria?

"Sometimes, no, all the time, I really cannot stand the world we live in."

This is something I can agree with but not because of the same reasons. Gay/lesbian rights are one of the least important issues in the world when we have people being tortured, rapped, beheaded, living in unimaginable poverty...all of these and more have one common thread, sin, something that most of you don't believe in to begin with so how do you ever expect for the real problems of the world to be addressed?

"Unfortunately, you're probably right because people wouldn't be offended by someone saying they're straight.

Just when you start to have some hope for humanity ..."

Again, I sight the examples and then some I listed above. It amazes me that this is considered a pivotal issue that will determine the course of humanity in the eyes of many people yet real problems such as what's going on in Darfur or child prostitution i.e., real problems, go largely unnoticed. You make a comment like that and yet don't see the obvious need to put that into perspective of the larger issues that concern us as human beings.

Oddly enough many of you would undoubtedly suggest that the answer to such problems would be to pass/enforce legislation prohibiting any opinion other than that which a liberal leaning or secular society would agree with. The idea that people are too close minded, ignorant or bigoted to know any better and thus be made to do by laws, by government is scary to say the least.

Contrary to popular belief, government and political ideals i.e., communism, Marxism, socialism etc., are responsible for more deaths than all religions combined, yet usually the first response is to turn to said government to tell us what to do, what to think. What is acceptable and what is not.

Tolerance, equality and all the rest of it isn't established by enforcing laws, all that does is offer people the alternative of being punished for not following along which as we have seen over and over throughout history, doesn't work. All that establishes is giving more of your rights and responsibility as a human being to the government, a government run by people who are or just as susceptible to evil, sin and corruption as the rest of us. I have been harassed on XBL because I'm black, does that mean that I want someone to "do something" about it? To the contrary, I appeal to that persons sense of intelligence and humanity in an effort to change there heart from the inside. I am a Christian and that is what Christ would've done and did and did so successfully.

Sin is sin ladies and gentlemen, regardless of what you believe in. If this person was harassed than that is sinful and wrong. Not to say that I don't make mistakes or that Christians in general don't, that's not the point. Rather the issue is how would Christ have responded and IMO if we approached things more so from that point of view than we would have a much better society as a whole. Truly changing people, real change only comes from within ones heart, not from judicial order or protesting/picketing/rioting (this applies to Christians as well, Christ didn't form picket lines, he appealed to peoples hearts, accepting all who would listen)...but from love.

Knowledge and wisdom equals understanding

the irony of the carl avatar is not lost on me

I think Microsoft should make a diversity friendly zone. That way people who harass others for whatever reason can be separated from those who just want to enjoy playing videogames in a friendly welcoming environment.

I bet you if I put in my profile that I was straight. No one would say anything. So MS's "include comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate content of a potentially sexual nature" is B.S.! Straight people have sexy as do Lesbians.

@ wages of sin

I'm sorry that you don't consider bigotry against gays and lesbians a "real" problem. So to answer your question yes I do consider you a troglodyte.

just leave Britney alone!!!!!!!!

This has gone WAY out of hand. Everyone here commenting needs to remember in America we have the right and freedom to choose, but we have the responsiblity to be tolerant of others choices. This is a general statement of course and legal issues can negate rights and responsibilities on occasion.

This is bullshit. There are a lot of ways that a person can proclaim their heterosexuality, ways that will fly under the radar of just about everyone, because they're the norm and we're so acclimated to them; meanwhile, even the most subtle insinuation of homosexuality is going to put a bright red target on your forehead. In a world where they're still a long way from being afforded the same dignity as straight people, sometimes this kind of self-identification is an important part of one's identity! Maybe it shouldn't be; but when members of a majority group wear their own affiliations on their sleeve, and then have the gall to act like they're being oppressed whenever someone calls them on it, I think gay people do deserve the right to self-identify too.

She probably had that she was lesbian in her profile so guys wouldn't constantly hit on her. Instead of repeating it over and over, simply put in in your bio. I have that I team with my boyfriend regularly in mine, I wonder if I'll be banned next because I'm basically saying that I'm straight with that statement. People on xbox live are unbelievable.

this is what happens when nerds don't have enough real world interaction.

Good she should be banned. Its about time. Being politically correct is BS. Hopefully she will think before she puts something that should be kept private in the first place.

LOL@Some of these people who act like we should just accept life. Thats what the Jewish community did during the Nazi regime.

Heh I actually recall seeing a few people with 'licensed homosexual' or something of the like in their profile. I figured it was some sort of gay clan. Pretty lame thing to be banned for.

And you are free to think as much if you so choose.

The fact is the majority of this is purely based off of emotion and hype. That is why I don't consider it a real problem in the grand scheme of things.

In today's society it is common to be openly gay/lesbian and have nothing to worry about outside of harsh words, with a few exceptions of course. Rather, it is used/made into much bigger issue for political reasons, not because there is such a huge dilemma.

Tell me, when was the last time gays/lesbians were rounded up and jailed, murdered, tortured, taken from there families, had genocide committed against them, poisoned, beaten, enslaved, burned alive, drowned, rapped, fined, blinded, castrated, mutilated, crucified or had war made against them?

The answer is never however all of these things have happened or are currently happening in today's world to people for ethnic and religious reasons and nothing is said and if so rarely and half-heartedly so.

The fact that the majority of you such tolerant people can jump online in the comfort of your own home and voice your disgust with a situation that you don't even have the full story for is testament enough. You are never going to make everyone not like/like something nor are you going to stop them from saying/not saying something so let's be realistic and put things in perspective is what I'm saying. This "outrage" over something you don't even fully understand seems a bit sophomoric IMO and only helps to serve as a reason that we can never have conversations that truly accomplish anything positive, much like the issue of race.

And yet, I get voted down.

My apologies, that was directed towards Anthony33.

Finally MS does something right, good job

let's hope microsoft hasn't just watched skins...

I dunno about America or even the rest of the UK for that matter, let alone Europe, but here in the London, gays are common, not because they have influenced others to become gay, but simply because the ones that are gay and would otherwise be hiding it have no reason to, they feel free to be themselves and not have eyes gawping at them and judging.

My uni lecturer is openly gay, never has it ever been an issue to me, his teaching of business accountancy is superb and thats all I care about, I don't spend time worrying about his sexual orientation because I have other things to think about, this is the difference between the likes of me who has much more important concerns and those who don't have anything other then a teachers sexual preferences to think about, I find that rather sad.

Brighton is the home of gay people over here, but straight people without an issue with it such as I are not fazed about going there, I love brighton, its a cool place to hang out, and with its gay people, it also has some of the most stunning girls, I don't go down there worrying about having my backside grabbed by males, I go down to the clubs and places I enjoy and hang out with girls feeling absolutly fine within my surroundings. When you are open minded, nothing bothers you. Besides I find teenaged preganancies, the youth and their lack of respect for society and the innocent being stabbed for no reason more of an issue to worry about.

I'd feel safer living in Brighton with gays then in several other areas where you could get killed, at least brighton has minor or no crimes.

I do however think that if you put certain things on your profile on XBL or PSN you are asking for trouble, people should know that there are idiots on both networks, racist, homophobic and several other things, and I do think in any case you should refrain from putting explicit things on your profile as well. Gamers don't want to see that. If you are gay or of a different race to the majority of gamers etc, then either keep it hidden, or have it public but be strong enough to tolerate the individual loosers that are bound to pop up.

Why do people feel the need to inform everyone of their sexual orientation? Is it part of some need to come to terms with it? Tolerant people do not care who you choose to sleep with. If you want to play with other gay gamers, start a clan. You don't see straight people going around putting it on t shirts and bumper stickers.

I don't care if your gay, and I don't really need to be told. It doesn't make a difference to me, and it has nothing to do with gaming.


So you're gay, bfd. It doesn't need to be interjected into every other breath or action you take. Everyone knows the type of morons plaguing xbl, it's not smart to use it to come out. That's like gold to those bigot jackasses.

@Pitufo,

In short, the 2 greatest commandments are both about and revolve around love. Therefor anything that wold cause you not to act in love is a sin. If your dislike of the gay/lesbian lifestlye causes you to not love them as Gods creation then that is a sin. You don't have to agree with it but hating them isn't the answer.

Likewise, if you hate someone who doesn't support that lifestyle or hate them because they have a different opinion than one who does, that to is sin. However, we all sin in some way and none are beyond reproach. That is why loving one another is so important for the only one who can judge us is God.

I just lol'd at the fact I'm reading his comment in my mind as if Carl himself was speaking.

Just amusing.

Because after all, a gaming service is a very important medium in which to flaunt your sexual identity.

To Maverick Saturn as a fellow Londoner and a gay one at that I agree completely, it's shocking to see so many glimpses of cultures so different from how I grew up in.

I neither parade my sexuality nor do i hide it from others, i don't hand out "the benefits of being gay pamphlets" to kids as many people seem to have idiotic nightmares about i just get on with my MA, go out drinking with my friends and trundle along in my own life perfectly happily.

(BTW I wasn't abused, traumatised, didn't not have a father figure, no one around me was gay and i wasn't dropped on my head when i was a kid - just a regular joe)

To wages of sin, I very much doubt i can change your opinion about gay people since it seems to have been forged in a biased and judgemental upbringing of faith. (Which wasn't me being snide, it really did come across to me that way) But whatever your personal opinion on sin i think its important to remember that the people you speak about have feelings in the here and now and are not words written in the past or personal thoughts on faith but living and breathing human beings. Whilst your beliefs are important to you they can not be proven but what can be proven is the path from judgement and disrespect to eventual hate and violence.

Of course there are many horrific things happening in the world that are not gay or lesbian related but your statement

"Tell me, when was the last time gays/lesbians were rounded up and jailed, murdered, tortured, taken from there families, had genocide committed against them, poisoned, beaten, enslaved, burned alive, drowned, rapped, fined, blinded, castrated, mutilated, crucified or had war made against them?

The answer is never"

Is entirely false, a very brief google search shows this and many more cases like these are happening as we speak....or indeed type....

http://www.oasisjournals.com/2008/02/lawrence-king-15-and-gay-killed-by-fellow-student

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gays_died_in_the_Holocaust

Sorry to ramble on my first post, in conclusion, yes she did violate the TOS so should be punished because she did break the rules that she agreed to, however those rules should be looked into and perhaps altered.

The people stalking her and subjecting her to hate need to grow the fuck up and get a life and should intereract with other portions of the world that aren't just like them because we're all human here!

I'd rather play with lesbians than with some of the annoying brats on there.

@Lion,

One quick point I'd like to make in response to something you said:

"To wages of sin, I very much doubt i can change your opinion about gay people since it seems to have been forged in a biased and judgemental upbringing of faith. (Which wasn't me being snide, it really did come across to me that way) But whatever your personal opinion on sin i think its important to remember that the people you speak about have feelings in the here and now and are not words written in the past or personal thoughts on faith but living and breathing human beings. Whilst your beliefs are important to you they can not be proven but what can be proven is the path from judgment and disrespect to eventual hate and violence."

Maybe I should have been more clear. My reference to sin wasn't directed at the gay/lesbian lifestyle, I was speaking about behaviors, all behaviors and people in general.

Yes I do think it a sin to live in homosexuality but not be a homosexual. Allow me to explain.

I have a very, very close family member who left his family because he was as he put it "gay and tired of hiding it" He left his wife, his kids, ( one of which is very flamboyantly gay now) everything to do his thing.

20 or so years later, he's a practicing Christian who while still gay, doesn't act upon his urges. I hated him then, but after coming to Christ I learned to love everyone over the years (and still have plenty to go) and although he lives to far to hang out I talk to him all the time. I was younger then, I'm in my 30's now.

That person is my father.

All of us have feelings you see.

Lastly, just because something is old doesn't mean it has less relevance, to the contrary more often than not that wisdom will help you out. There is nothing new under the Sun my friend, old or not, we can all learn from everything, and everyone. I have learned something from you...from all of you who have posted, and hopefully you have learned from me.

Thanks for the discussion I'm going to sit the rest of this out as it seems that some people have become to hostile/emotional to have a legitimate conversation. If you would like to discuss this further in private, just hit me up/add me online.

GT: wages of sin
PSN: BookofJob

This is dumb.

Parental controls exist for a reason if you don't want your kids to see other people's profiles.

Didn't have to ban her.

*skips all but the first comment, afraid to read so many*
I'm consoled that Microsoft's XBL Terms of Use already have this in play, and that they apply it to any and all orientations (since, really, which non-sim multiplayer games does your sex and/or gender play much of a role?). What's more, they say to report any 'inappropriateness' to them, and that they do not take harassment lightly. Really, I'd say they're rather the admirable indifference, and for the people heading it up, that's great.

As for all those who gave her such a rag about it, jeebus. I mean, they could have looked for some TOU loophole (and find it) to back up demands to have that info removed, but to torch & pitfork just some other player? Yeash. Don't games have some way to block specific players, anyway? Just do that.

Wonder how many people kept in line about this, or even how many knew of Microsoft's ofikal stance. Then there's the legions that prolly didn't give a transgendered rat's ass aboot it.

Just change the guidelines to "lascivious" rather than sexual. Easy.