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Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:07PM (Unverified) said

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Without commenting on the merits or problems of the bill, the ESA definitely has the stronger point, which is that large numbers of parents (to judge by my eardrum after playing a console FPS) either don't know or don't care what the current ratings mean.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:07PM (Unverified) said

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Er, ESRB. D'oh!
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:14PM (Unverified) said

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If a kid can buy a mature game, without any sort of real punishment for the people that sell them, this will go on. While I think Jack Thompson is an asshole, I do think the selling of mature games to kids should be punishable by law.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:12PM gozer said

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we should jail anyone who sells a pg-13 dvd to a 12 year old as well.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:15PM (Unverified) said

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There's a difference between selling a 12 year old a PG13 movie and selling a 10 year old GTA4.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:26PM (Unverified) said

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Why? So the government can sink their claws into more money and punish more people for something that really isn't even a crime.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:28PM Ravnos said

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No there isn't. The ratings of both state that those children are too young to be viewing those materials. The only difference is the medium. Your example of GTA4 isn't even directly comparable, as there are also a number of games rated T which your hypothetical 10 and 12 year olds would not be able to play either, and that is directly comparable to PG-13.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:31PM (Unverified) said

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ugh. against the LAW? it's a friggin video game.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 4:35PM BigD145 said

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Children should be protected from scary thoughts and concepts, except Hell and The Devil. How, exactly, does that work?
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 4:49PM nandokun said

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So when I was 10 and looked at my dad's playboys, should my dad have been fined or sent to jail?
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 4:58PM BigD145 said

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Yes, because not having a father would have made you a better person without access to "adult" things.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 7:13PM (Unverified) said

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@Basman
Really? How do you sleep at night you sick social conservative? There are SO many better things to spend our time on than punishing minor offenses like selling M or R rated materials to kids, smoking marijuana, pirating music, or saying the F bomb on national television.

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Posted: Mar 8th 2009 10:26PM (Unverified) said

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Wow you bunch of dicks. I am totally against making it a law, and I'm a social conservative. Don't stereotype just because MSNBC told you to!
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:08PM bxgt said

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This guy is almost as hated as bush.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:24PM (Unverified) said

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Pretty sure he is hated more than Bush. Almost every two term president's public opinion is in the dumpster towards the end of their second term.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:50PM Laser Sanchez said

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In defense of Bush (never thought I'd type something like that) at least we don't have to deal with him any more.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 4:56PM BigD145 said

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We haven't had all that many two-term presidents with quantifiable approval ratings. Bush Jr. (R) went down from start to finish. Clinton's (D) stayed about the same. Reagan (R) went down from start to finish. Eisenhower (R) down. Truman (D) had an interesting ride, but he was down overall. Roosevelt (D) went up. That's six with 4 downs, 1 even, and 1 up. You call that, almost every? I call that, every Republican two-termer but definitely not almost every Democrat two-termer.

---Did not include the partial second termers that couldn't get past their 6-7th year. Did I miss anyone?

As far as I can tell, Jack is liked by a small portion of one state. That is definitely lower than Bush's 22%.
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Posted: Mar 7th 2009 4:11PM Takahashi said

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Really my friend? Last I checked W. Bush approval rating went up, and then down. He holds the record for the highest approval rating then any other president. He also toward the end of his term got the lowest.

As for Reagan, his went up at the start of his terms. His re-election was fantastic. He won ever single state but Minnesota.

Common man, learn your facts before you spit out hebetudious statements...
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Posted: Mar 8th 2009 10:29PM (Unverified) said

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Reagans ratings shot up, then stayed up, then dipped during Iran-Contra, and then ended up. He has the highest average approval rating I think except Clinton, and Clinton mostly benefited by Republicans trying to have him impeached which the American people didn't respond to well. He had a year (98 or 99?) where he had 75%+ approval, but overall Clinton swam around 50% and he never won an election with more than 50% either. I'm just saying, can't sit here and say its only Republicans with bad two term presidencies.

Also the media treatment of presidents is far more polarizing then it was in the 30's give me a break.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 9:35PM (Unverified) said

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No matter what ESRB does, retailers and developers will continue to be punished and sued over something that a simple five minute long read regarding ESRB ratings on a pamphlet could avoid. Parents simply don't give two shits.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:13PM F1 Basu Gasu Bakuhatsu said

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I hope the ESRB succeeds.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:15PM Deck said

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Well this is a great letter. Doubt they will listen to it, they are rather fixed in their ways on this one it seems. But it is a good letter none the less and maybe it will be taken to heart.

I am all for making sure kids under 17 don't get their hands on such games as Gears of War and so forth. They aren't the most "kid friendly" games. But the way that Utah is attempting to do it, I don't think is the right way to do it. Plus as the ESRB states, the % of retailers enforcing their policy and showing the rating that is CLEARLY ON THE BOX has jumped drastically over the past 8 years.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:16PM Ghen said

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That's an awesome letter :)

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:27PM Xerloq said

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There's a simple fix to this (if the letter doesn't work). The ESRB can stop rating games in Utah. The thrust of this issue is shifting parental responsibility for their kid's media consumption onto the media providers and distributors.

In addition to the points the ESRB President makes, I'd like to add that I censor my kids games, movies, books and music because I often don't agree with the ratings - sometimes I think they should be more strict, other times I think they're baloney.

This bill (and the ESRB) assumes that everyone agrees on the standard for an M, T, or E rated game. What about the parent who thinks that WWII FPSes are immoral and that kids shouldn't play them? Lots of those are rated T.

My wife doesn't like M rated games in the house. I had loads of fun when I bought a copy of Oblivion with a T rating on the box around the time it was re-rated M to much media attention that she picked up on. It drove home my point.

Ultimately, if parents want to set the standards, they need to be the police.

I hope it fails.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:13PM (Unverified) said

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"The ESRB can stop rating games in Utah."

That's a problem though. The voluntary rating system was put in place to keep government intervention at bay much like the movie rating system.

If they remove the ratings in Utah, then I could see the state saying that they now have to regulate video game sales.

It's an evil plot I tells ya!
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:23PM Xerloq said

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True, but it's mostly a symbolic move. If the law is passes stating that M rated games require retailer approval, then the retailers get out of trouble without a rating.

When they move to regulate video games (which wouldn't work because of the issue "who decides the standards") the ESRB can stand up, heroically, and say, "We volunteer to do this for you at no cost to the government! We'll get those "evil" video game companies to pay for it, too! All you have to do is tell parents to watch their kids purchases..."

Then the ESRB would be heroes, and Jack Thompson could suck a fatty.
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Posted: Mar 7th 2009 12:13PM Blaquebeird said

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I'm not sure that they could stop rating games sold just in Utah, mainly because the game gets rated once, not every copy for every state individually. Ratings aren't local, they're nationwide.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:31PM JoshMilewski said

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Of course this letter is full of logic and reason, but I doubt any of the Utah lawmakers will pay attention. They'll do what they want and that'll be it.

Trying to fight this bill is commendable, however.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:44PM chronowing said

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Parents dont really use the ESRB rating when buying a games they just don't care about it at all I seen it mean time parents go to the store to buy a little kid a videogame with out caring what the rating is on the game.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:50PM tcc3 said

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Dear Utah:

These are trying financial times. Please come to your senses before the courts award us thousands of $ in legal fees when they declare your law unconstitutional.

Thank you.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:06PM (Unverified) said

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I live in Utah and don' t like the idea of my tax dollars being used to parent someone else's kids. This is a parenting issue not a government issue and should stay that way.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 2:53PM LaughingTarget said

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P.S. - The ESA will be taking your tax dollars by this time next year for successfully overturning this piece of legislation.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:01PM butaneko said

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As far as fixing a system which is perhaps the least broken among other types of rated media, I get it. But the fact that it has a 6% failure rate certainly makes it fair game for legislation.

I'm not sure I understand the argument that by making something that was formerly voluntary into something mandatory will somehow weaken the system.

Additionally, I don't really understand the logic in the following:

"Utah State Representative Michael Morley, the chief sponsor of this new amendment, was recently quoted in the Deseret News stating that, "if they're one of those places that thinks, 'Well, as long as they have a heartbeat and some money we'll sell to them,' then this won't have any impact on them." That statement reveals exactly why this law would be so destructive. It would effectively penalize responsible retailers that have policies, and provide safe harbor for retailers that refuse to adopt a responsible policy in the first place."

Assuming Mr. Morley is referring to stores that just sell anything to a person of any age, how exactly would they be provided a safe harbor? Wouldn't stores that sell M-Rated games to minors be the target of this law?

Is the point here that going forward retailers that were in the wrong 6% of the time shouldn't be punished as harshly as retailers that were in the wrong 100% of the time? I don't really get it but maybe I'm missing something.



Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:32PM (Unverified) said

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No, those retailers would NOT get punished. This law punishes stores that promise NOT to sell games to kids not covered by the ESRB rating, but sell it to them anyway.

For instance, gamestop. They currently say they do not sell mature games to under 17-year-olds. If they were caught selling one any way, then they'd be fined. But this law does nothing for those stores that choose NOT to promise not to sell M games to minors.

Small game stores, or one-man computer shops that sell a game or two on the side and don't promise not to will not be punished for selling an M game to minors.

Thus, this actually ENCOURAGES big stores such as gamestop to stop promising. And without a store policy, individual stores or employees can relax or even stop carding customers, which results in LESS enforcement of the ESRB rating.

As a Utahn, I was always against this. The ESRB rating is a voluntary industry self-rating board, not a government created company. The ratings are purely suggestions, and are enforced voluntarily by game stores across the country ANYWAY, with greater success than the movie industry, in a short amount of time.

Punishing a store for slacking off in self-regulation but no punishment for dropping the promise only hurts the self-regulation, thereby ensuring the government will have to step in once enforcement rates go down and people complain again about little jimmy getting GTA4.

I certainly don't want any little bugger getting that game, but if the parent is so DUMB they let jimmy have it anyway, or if the parent believes their kid is mature enough to handle it, I don't care. But don't bring government into this. This is not a case of the malicious game industry making a quick buck. This is parents too lazy to prevent content they deem inappropriate for their kid from getting them.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 4:04PM butaneko said

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OK then the whole thing makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying. Maybe I should have read a couple more entries on this topic before I jumped in on this one!

Then this entire bill is asinine. It's essentially a "let's get everyone who promises not to sell to minors not to promise anymore" bill.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2009 3:42PM lockheede said

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ESRB ratings are voluntary, aren't they? They are not government imposed ala the smoking/drinking ages. And as far as I know, there is no contract between any parties. The retailers have given their word, and for the most part, they seem to stick to it. If the parents have a problem with their child's selection, they should've been at the counter when it was purchased. And if they really have a problem, let the parent take the retailer to court.

Let this pass through...then let a judge kill it. It'll have wasted more of whackboy Thompson's time before he starts something new...

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 4:36PM ShadowOp said

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Possibly Controvercial Comment

Kids are annoying to have online when I'm playing counterstrike source or something of the sort...

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 4:47PM nandokun said

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Way to waste taxpayers' money in a shallow attempt to appease your own ego, Jack.

Posted: Mar 6th 2009 5:34PM (Unverified) said

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Considering nothing has stopped religious zealots from changing their minds in the past on the most absurd of issues, I highly doubt this letter will get the job done. Shame.

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