Square Enix: Game stories can surpass films

??? your comment makes no sense, as far as games goes, SE by far makes some of the most emotionally gripping games.

If you're a fish.

flanker, i think he was referring to this
"The problem is that "in TV, film and theatre, the creator has control over how he gives the story to the viewer - it's easier to control the emotions."
jrpgs although great in story, and fun to play, are very linear.

Well, I must agree with him there: Japanese game developers like Square Enix have made incredibly deep stories dripping with emotion, but film takes more than events. Square (and many other game companies) are so shackled to stereotypes they have lately lacked the compelling characters needed to match the professionalism of cinema. As soon as you introduce drama and tragedy into a JRPG, how long is it before a flaxen-haired androgynous supermodel with a God complex emerges as the antagonist? Or a player character that doesn't walk around with both hands behind his head when he's bored?

When was the last time you saw a villain so unique and well constructed as Ledger's Joker in a video game? The last equal for him might have been Kefka from FF6 (even the re-imagining of Kefka for Dissidia is plagued with stereotypical actions like that obnoxious butt-slap taunt). They'll need to break free from old practises beyond just storytelling if they want to beat film at their own game.

I think it's hilarious coming from Squenix because their stories are told like really long movies that are interrupted now and then to fight some monsters.

CAST LIGHTNING!!!

Oh, sorry, on all enemies.

Wait, wait, they're strong against lightning? Alright, hang on. Just hang on a sec.

...

Right, just a sec...

...

...

CAST BLIZZARD!!!

Bro dudes dropped a tent, what noobs.

I've been playing this for a few days now and it has some of the worst dialog and voice acting I have seen in a long time. I still like the game, but the story sure doesn't make sense a lot of the time. "The earth exploded, yeah, were back in our own time again." If they made a movie like this no one would go see it, oh wait, I guess they already did.

@flanker22

Your standards are surprisingly low.

Square have made some great games with epic stories, but there are lots of questions about Square's characters that often leave you scratching your head.

It also pisses you off when the character says or does something that you wouldn't do, see I'm a quick on my toes sorta guy, when it comes to girls I like to get in there and find out more, however, FF games leave me standed and having to battle boss #3 before I can find out how the relationship materialises further, annoying!!!!

To add to that, the characters take so damn long to figure out they are in love or fancy another character, then often they would fall in love with the girl you may think was the ugliest of the group, while the hot chick of the group gets ignored, take Tifa for example, why didn't Cloud spend more time flirting with her throughout the game, I liked Tifa more then Aerith ¬_¬

All of these can be pretty damn frustrating, and with no options as to who you can fall for, flirt with, battle against and prevail with, it kinda makes you feel less of the gamer, and more of an interactive story reader. Why do you think FF games have switched from text actions to active actions, its because Id rather choose how to attack an enemy and see my misses and hits then click 'attack' and watch it go.

Conveniently, a boss or other characters always interrupt just when things are heating up between two characters.

How pissed off would you be if you were this close to getting it on with Jessica Alba and then your mum walked into the room and ruined the moment refusing to leave you alone, or even worse, some massive monster randomly smashes through your wall or window to battle you.

Yeah I can't wait to hear the immortal words "All your base are belong to us" on the big screen... :P

...the stale and convoluted stories from SE would not exist outside their own boring products no matter how much they kiss their own ass its not going farther than that.

As boostjunkie said, SO:TLH has provided some of the most cringe worthy voice acting and overdramatic behavior of all time.

Take a note people, as someone who was skeptic of Tales of Vesperia's quality in story telling, if you want a superior game, avoid TLH and get Vesperia. I have enjoyed it much more than star ocean. Nearly everything about Vesperia has been flawless so far, aside from the mildly refurbished story elements...

aer = fonons :P

I'm a gamer and it sounds like nonsense to me. No offense.

I know exactly what you mean. There's just so much freaking potential. There are obstacles, though. Check out some of this stuff:

http://www.examiner.com/x-3414-Minneapolis-Video-Game-Examiner~y2009m2d10-Videogames-as-art-Part-1

http://www.examiner.com/x-3414-Minneapolis-Video-Game-Examiner~y2009m3d2-Video-game-storytelling

Considering they are the only company that has tried to get into the film industry, and has failed so bad that fired the creator of the series, almost fell into bankruptcy, and even managed to crap on their most popular game by making a movie sequel to it (FF7) and turning into a fanboy eyecandy while forgetting to write a story...

I say they are full of shit and are just talking because they still feel the sting of failure now that they are trying to release yet another special edition of the movie, now in bluray...

And game stories, specially Final Fantasy, tend to be little stories (levels) mixed together, is you enjoy the game you will say "wow, that's the greatest story ever told", if you didn't you say "wow, that's it? whatever happened to this guy? and about the machine? did the kid survive? is there going to be a sequel or something? no way, the game was too short..." expecting something that really was there to begin with, since you spend 20+hours and they didn't even give enough time to finish everything or was rushed to the finish.

Guess what. If I want to watch a movie, I'll watch a movie. When I play a video game I want to be playing the game and being involved in the story, not having it force fed to me through another medium.

They are separate mediums for a reason. I think that cutscenes are one of the worst things in video games, and I think that taking control away from the character (even keeping limited control, like looking around, is fine) is one of the worst mistakes a developer can do in a lot of cases. Of course, there are exceptions: Some games are just not trying to tell a great story.

However I would vastly prefer only knowing what my character I am controlling knows. The second you yank me out of that it completely removes any immersion.

You don't have to throw out filmmaking techniques to make effective videogame storytelling. To treat games like disconnected movies with playable parts is actually more limiting than complete immersion, and if that's all games can ever accomplish, they will never surpass movies as a storytelling medium.

No offense, but thinking that complete immersion in a game is limited to one style is very much lacking in creativity. Videogames can do things that movies can't, so it's time we explore that space rather than chain them to an already developed medium.

When I'm playing Half-Life 2, and the game doesn't cut to a cutscene, but instead has all the NPCs talking to me while I'm doing utterly retarded things, and they don't react at all to any of this... I am not immersed at all.

Here's what happens in HL2's "amazing, innovative" storytelling. A scientist is talking to me while I jump around like a lunatic, smashing and shooting things with my gun. The scientist continues to talk, not reacting in any way to my actions. I can smash his nuts with my crowbar and he won't give a crap.

Here's what happens in Oblivion and Fallout. I get a crappy dialogue tree, and I stare at an inert, totally unrealistic humanoid in front of me. The mouth moves, but it may as well be a department store mannequin for all the "immersion" this offers.

All this "abandon the storytelling methods of film, forge a new path!" stuff sounds great but so far it has been pretty crappy across the board.

I'm with Charlie. Without cut scenes, they are forced to reduce your character to a silent, emotionless rock, like Freeman. When something dramatic happens in a game, your character should react to it. If I'm controlling the character however, I'm just gonna be prancing about like a pony. I mean, it's not like there is anything else to do. I don't think many games have a button for "express mental anguish".

Exactly!

Games are supposed to take us away from reality right? To a world of endless fun and where YOU, not the hero in the game, but YOU are the centre of attention.

Felt stressed at work, YOU take it out on your opponent in the game, feel like winning a trophy YOU drive that car, make your own mistakes, buy your own parts etc and win, feel like saving the planet? YOU pick up that controller and blast your foes into oblivion.

Stories are great, and I personally like CGIs as well as long as they aren't overly long and unskippable, but I can't deny I have more fun playing games where I'm the one in control shaping my own destiny, I have enough of living other people's lives and working for the sake of others in reality, sorry to be selfish, but I want everything to be about me when I play games, ya know.

Gehodra, you can stay in FPS mode and even hear your character speak, but when it seperates from your character, you feel seperate from that charcter. The fact we never see Gordon except to look through his eyes is great as we feel as if we ARE Gordon, cgi doesn't remove us from his body like a spectating ghost occupying his body, tho I have to agree with Charlie, blasting your weapon like a nutter while the NPC casually talks about his wife is hilarious.

He should go 'Hey, what you doing?' 'Or you're not listening again are you, okay, forget it', but then if all NPCs did that, you'd never get valuable info like door codes etc.

I agree with Nadril. These force-fed, "Epic" stories with characters that are trying so hard to be serious and complex just seem to come up short. The silent (or if not silent, then at least one with minimal personality) protagonist still reigns, so long as the silent protagonist exists in a well-populated world.

"However I would vastly prefer only knowing what my character I am controlling knows. The second you yank me out of that it completely removes any immersion." That's a pretty extreme preference, and one I think severely limits storytelling.

Off the top of my head, FFVII's story was really vetted out and made deeper by showing scenes with other people, villians, and what they were up to at different points in the story. My two cents.

I'm with Charlie_Six on this one. There can be a good balance between not having cutscenes and having to many cutscenes. I think Bioshock did a great job of storytelling without lots of cutscenes. However, MGS 4 had one of the most epic stories in videogame history (IMO) and wouldn't have been possible without the high production value movie like cutscenes. Devil May Cry 4 was another great game that gave a great story without tons of cutscenes. If I had the choice I would take something with more cutscenes and a fantastic story that made me think about the world in a different way than something without cutscenes that was nothing more than a reskinned Pac Man for example.

Nintendo is notorious for having pathetic or non existent stories but they still have some of the best games in the history of gaming. Bioshock and MGS 4 are the two games that really made me think differently about the world and myself because of the social commentary aspect of them. It's very powerful to be able to get that type of message across in a videogame. I will take those experiences everyday over games with lackluster stories that have exceptional gameplay. That's A personal preference of mine that others might not share. There are a great number of gamers who would rather have great gameplay and a run of the mill story (Mario Galaxy, Gears Of War, Killzone, Resistance etc etc ..) because they want to play the game and not watch it. Hell, I like those games as well but ifr given the choice I would take something with a story that made me think and wasn't spoon fed to me.

Truth be told Gears, Killzone, Resistance and Mario are all fantastic games and have some great story elements. However, it's not the same (to me) as games that make relevant social commentary like Bioshock and MGS 4.

Saying that, Bioshock puts you into the role of the character, not from an outside view.

Take the opening for example, one of the most epic openings ever, and whats great about it? You see what the character is seeing, so when big daddy comes along, it seems a lot scarier and sinister then had you been watching the character from a third person perspective, you almost feel the action and pain, as he gets drilled, you feel that pain more then you would had it been 3rdPS.

"Nintendo is notorious for having pathetic or non existent stories" So what about Fire Emblem and Earthbound?

I don't think Cutscenes are at all bad. Just how they are used get annoying. 5-45 minutes of nothing doing anything is generally something you shouldn't do. Now, if the cutscene is something that your character has in no way the ability to interact with the story, say a building exploding, I would love to see that in a pre-rendered, pre-scripted clip. It helps make it more detailed like that. There should never by a cut-scene in which the character I'm playing gets in a good old fist fight some the big bad boss of that area.

I should be the one throwing the punches. However, if say, my character is on a cat walk, and see his partner/sidekick/loveinterest/mentor ect, engaged with a fist fight with the big bad on another cat walk, that could make a good cutscene. Pre-rendered, or just pre-scripted.

half-life 2 Episode 2 for example, had pre-rendered cinema physics, or something by that name. They looked amazing and drew me in more. Granted if I was looking at it. Kind of hard to ignore a house being ripped apart though.

Also, the problem with pre-scripted events are if they grab the players attention. I remember the developer comments saying how they would try various tricks to make sure the player was looking at the action. Fear 2 had this problem, where something scary could be happening, but your looking the wrong way entirely.

However, there is one thing that will always give a disconnection with the story. Game mechanics. Also called game play vs storyline segments. When the player is controlling one of the characters, he can do things no one else can do. Then, one said character dies in the story there is nothing you can really do, despite that you just cleared maybe 50 guys in the last room, after being shot in the face 10 times.

"A lot of games already are good enough to be ranked along with the best books and movies"

While the possibility of a game coming along in the future that sits on par with a good movie (story-wise) seems plausible, I just can't believe someone would rank a videogame on the same level as a book.

Skies of Arcadia and Shenmue affected me very deeply, on the same level that some of the best examples of traditional entertainment did.

Agreed on the Shenmue, though some of the more emotionally affecting moments end up being cutscenes or semi-interactive cutscenes. Not all, though, not by a long shot.

Maybe, but it's more about the overall experience.

Looking back at it, that winter I played it was like I was living in a whole other world (or, uh, a really inviting version of Japan). The locations and the experiences I had in that game were so real to me, and I still can't imagine how different my mindset today might have been if I had never played that game.

Haha Shenmue.

"I'm looking for some sailors." "Have you seen any sailors?" "Where can I find sailors?"

"Are you still looking for those sailors? Because there are quite a lot of them than before."

"I must find those sailors."

Yeah, it took me a long time to understand that joke.

Kind of meh, actually.

And forklift races.. you can't have an epic tale without forklift sailors.

Forklift races sorry, I had sailors on my mind. I'm looking for them. Have you seen the sailors?

"All of the sailors are big you know."

Oh my god http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQa3yGXzGls

Ahaha, that voice acting is so bad.

"Fuk-san, do you know any sailors?"

I agree, Bioware are probably the best at consistently balancing traditional RPG conventions, narrative and plot in their games. Other standalone games that have pushed the envelope, in my opinion, are Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex and the Metal Gear series.

I really don't understand how people can respect Bioware so much. All of their games have had extremely shallow and terribly balanced gameplay. I beat the entirety of KOTOR on the hardest difficulty by merely using Improved Flurry and healing powers. There was no strategy involved whatsoever.

Mass Effect's gameplay was inferior to the first Doom's, which came out what... 15 years ago?

Their writing is top notch, but that's it.

Actually whenever SE releases a new Final Fantasy, it usually becomes the template for most other major JRPGs. So after FFXIII comes out, don't be surprised to see a few copycats.

Sure, SE's other franchises and games (The Last Remnant, Star Ocean) have been sort of generic, but it's not like with every game they HAVE to redefine the genre. Only a few monumental games can help do that, which is where FF comes in.

"I really don't understand how people can respect Bioware so much. All of their games have had extremely shallow and terribly balanced gameplay."

I agree that Bioware games tend to have unbalanced combat and customization, but the point is the gameplay itself is fun. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect - these are all games with entertaining, fast-paced combat which is uncommon in an RPG.

"Mass Effect's gameplay was inferior to the first Doom's, which came out what... 15 years ago?"

90% of modern titles have gameplay inferior to the first Doom's. I really don't understand your point here. Doom was a milestone for FPSes and comparing its gameplay to Mass Effect's makes no sense, since all they have in common is, well, the shooting at stuff.