More survey data backs up Xbox 360's E74 increase
by Justin McElroy 
{ Mar 23rd 2009 at 4:24PM } 
As you'll see, there's a huge increase of E74 claims since the launch of the New Xbox Experience. In fact, you can see a spike right around November, and many claiming an E74 in that month say it was just a day or two after installing the firmware. The evidence that we've gathered from emails, our poll and the Engadget poll all points to the same conclusion: There's been a definite increase in E74 errors since the NXE dropped. Whether that's due to a change in error reporting, a change in the way the system operates causing the error or simply increased use during that time, we can't say. Check past the jump for all the data.
1. In addition to the above data, there are 11 others who say they've received the error intermittently since they've purchased the console.
2. Our coverage is now one of the top results of the "E74" Google search, which may be skewing the data. That is, we may be reporting a disproportionate number of March 2009 errors, given that recent recipients of the hardware failure could have found and responded to our initial report by searching "E74" on the web. Those who received E74 before March and searched the topic would not have found our report (which had yet to be published), and therefore are less likely to be included in our data.
3. Jacob Metcalf of 8bitjoystick.com has continued to delve into the technical reasons for E74.
We're still hoping to get a more in-depth explanation from Microsoft as to what causes the error and why it's not covered under the same three-year warranty as the Red Ring of Death. As soon as we hear something, we'll let you know.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
CantFlame (PSN MariusElijah) @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:29PM
Awesome reporting Joystiq
Now comes the waves of 360 users defending their purchase
Cody @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:31PM
Amen to that.
These reports coupled with the history of RROD are indefensible. No reason why anyone should ever purchase a 360. None.
Latin_Trident @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:31PM
Thanks for the coverage JOystiq! This is definitely much better over all of the coverage being done about the financial system!
MS, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!
Markez @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:32PM
Next time you might as well just put 'first!', you accomplish the same thing and we don't have to read the nonsense.
RLY
Saria the Cat @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:35PM
@Cody: You're totally missing the point. This 360 error coverage is not at all trying to relay the message that people shouldn't buy 360s. The main goal is for MS to recognize that the 360 can be a piece of crap sometimes and they need to provide adequate support and warranty for all 360 consoles, not just RRoD victims.
Not everything revolves around fanboyism.
CantFlame (PSN MariusElijah) @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:39PM
@Cody
It does have some good games, but the question is, Is it enough to overweight the fear of buying crappy hardware?
Duke @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:39PM
Don't bother. Cody doesn't actually think before posting in these stories, he just spouts his anti-360 bs and makes statements like "No reason why anyone should ever purchase a 360. None." Yeah, Cody, none - except for the millions of people who find the games fun and enjoy the damn thing.
Cody @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:47PM
@ Duke,
Funny, how you never are in the Wii threads telling the tmac's and other anti-Wii semites to stop their Wii bashing. Get over it.
@ Saria,
Cute cat. I know that's not the intention of the Joystiq article. I'm just stating, given the 360s hardware track record (has ANY console had such a bad one?), why risk it?
Saria the Cat @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:51PM
@Cody: Well I sure hope you have never driven a car, had A/C installed, or bought a computer, because, given their track records, they're accidents waiting to happen.
tmacairjordan87 @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:52PM
Except there are a huge number of reasons to bash the wii, and there aren't really any for 360 other than the chance of getting bad hardware. You're doing it wrong as some would say.
"No reason why anyone should ever purchase a 360. None."
I laughed when I first saw that, and I was going to ignore it until you called me out. No wii fan should ever say something like that about another system, it's just pure hypocrisy even though it's funny.
CantFlame (PSN MariusElijah) @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:53PM
@ Saria
Ok? you cant really compare it to that because with video games you have console options
Cody @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:57PM
tmac,
You say the EXACT same thing regarding Wii.
The difference being that you're reasoning is 100% opinionated on the software, or in your eyes, the lack thereof of quality software.
My reasoning being the concrete evidence regarding hardware failures at an alarmingly high rate.
Saria,
Your comparisons are way off base.
Bissy Boy (PSN johnnynumber5) @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:57PM
Duke
People have had problems and are disenchanted with the brand. So what?
Temidien @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:59PM
@CantFlame
Because there's only one type of car, a/c unit, and computer...?
Troy Powers (PSN: TroyPowers) @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:00PM
So, does it make me a PS3 fanboy if I say those cocksuckers at MS should be drawn and quartered over this shit?
iag25 @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:01PM
I Agree. Idiots downvoting for people telling the truth is utter childish. These errors as well as the rood gives people alot of awareness as to what system to get. The hastle of always replacing your console is not time well spend or $ wasted. Fanboyism aside, at this point people would really just consider a ps3 as their console. Their rate of failure in such a product of that price is unacceptable.
Bissy Boy (PSN johnnynumber5) @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:01PM
I should point out that as disenchanted as I am with the X-Box brand alltogether I'll probably still buy another one sometime this or next year. I'm personally waiting for a redesign before I make that plunge again. My kids have been bugging me for one since I sold mine last Christmas. Even they are getting tired of the Wii.
I just want to know the 360 is going to be rock solid before buying one again.
@Duke
Didn't realize who Cody was before my last reply. Thought he was being genuine for a second.
tmacairjordan87 @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:02PM
So, Cody, you're willing to give up on the biggest and best overall library of games this generation just because there's a chance of it breaking? How do you live through life if you avoid anything that has a chance of breaking?
And yes my opinions of the wii's software issue is opinion, it just happens to be the majority opinion here. Not that that really matters here, so stop trying to deflect the conversation.
Erluti @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:03PM
@cody
perhaps it's only your opinion they are hardware failures. Perhaps in some people's mind E74s are great hardware successes?
Markez @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:05PM
Ahhh, c'mon kids. Sound like children throwing sand at each other and fighting in the sandbox.
"Except there are a huge number of reasons to bash the wii, and there aren't really any for 360 other than the chance of getting bad hardware." , "No wii fan should ever say something like that about another system, it's just pure hypocrisy even though it's funny." Subjectivity parading around as fact is just turrible. Some people hate xbox live, think it's ridiculous to pay money for and not very good. Some people don't like the exclusives. Some people are fine with online on the Wii, and are fine with the games they own and prefer them over another consoles, etc. etc. You're basically saying the 360, aside from HW issues, is the most sublime & perfect console to ever exist; ie no other reason to bash the 360.
I know you think every opinion you have is fact, absolutely right, and everyone else's is wrong, but trying to dictate what any certain console owner is allowed to say about another console is just silly. It's like a childish pissing match is the most important thing there is to you. I own both and could really care less about getting worked up and being a console warriortard.
Cody @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:06PM
LMAO @ Erluti
smh @ Bissy Boy's rushed 3rd party generated opinion of me
tmac........ yeah.
Saria the Cat @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:09PM
@CantFlame: You're also forgetting those things called console exclusives. When it comes to console exclusives, you don't have a choice of systems.
Bissy Boy (PSN johnnynumber5) @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:15PM
@Co
I'm pretty sure your the same furvent Wii fanboy from before with the FL Gator logo. I could be wrong on that but you sure sound like the same guy.
I don't really like the 360 because of hardware issues and it's why i sold mine. But, being pissed because Tmac doesn't like the Wii and using that as a reason to troll the 360 in this thread is absurd. How can you be mad about what he does if your doing the same thing?
~Snipes~ (PSN slycooper_rocker) @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:20PM
no, he's not doing the same thing as tmac. tmac provides reasons. cody just says there's no reason to buy it.
Cody @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:34PM
@ Bissy Boy
Whoa whoa whoa!! That is NOT the reason I am posting in this thread. I was merely calling his bluff as an aside (his reasoning against Wii being opinion, mine against 360 being the high failure rates).
Look, some people on here apparently can overlook this issue and keep sending back time and time again. I for one, if my Wii had hardware issues like this, I'd send back ONCE, and if that second unit broke, I wouldn't even bother until the next generation of consoles, or just play off of one of my buddy's systems from time to time. Then again, I don't play any of my consoles (PS3, PC, Wii) more than a handful of hours per week.
Duke @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:46PM
You play your Wii a couple hours a week, yet each time you see a post on the 360 you come in and drop the same one liners about it being worthless junk. That is trolling plain and simple. I'm obviously not the one who needs to get over something here.
Great Golem+ @ Mar 23rd 2009 6:24PM
They took our jobs!!!!
JD @ Mar 23rd 2009 7:26PM
What do you care? This is an xbox 360 article and of course many still love the games and service. Too bad MS is a software company. I think you were looking for PS3fanboy. You'll find the articles you're looking for there... move along.
Sexualchocolate @ Mar 24th 2009 7:50AM
Voted down by Xbox fanboys I see.
Why do they defend a company that is treating THEM like muggs. Well I suppose that they are encouraging M$ by buying 1, 2, 3+ errorboxes to replace RROD'd or E74 units.
What was it, about 68% failure rate? That is just criminal.
Slaziman @ Mar 24th 2009 11:49AM
There's not THAAAAT many great Xbox 360 exclusives compared to the PS3, must stuff coming out now is either for both consoles anyway, and if you want to compare exclusives, well I'd say the PS3 has a better line-up this year, or at least more big name exclusives coming out than 360.
So right now, based on both software and hardware, the PS3 seems like a better choice. 360's Xbox Live service is the only thing I'd really miss.
Crusty Magic @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:30PM
Kudos to you guys for collecting this data.
Maybe those ass hats at Microsoft will wise up and realize that this is a relevant issue aside from just the 'normal' RRoD and offer the same level of warranty protection for this issue as well.
I'm on my third Xbox now, my past one failing as a result of this new E74 issue.
Saria the Cat @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:37PM
No idea why you were randomly voted down. Fanboys, please realize that bringing to light these issues isn't an "attack" on the console. It's to help people like you who want to enjoy their systems and be assured that they can continue to enjoy playing even if their console fails.
Crusty Magic @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:42PM
Well I'm glad people get so self conscious and defensive about their product affiliations, because we all know in the end you'll be buried with an Xbox or PlayStation logo above your grave stone.
=]
iag25 @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:07PM
Hahha I voted you back up !! too many M$ fanboys here. .. I see the kids have come out to play. Live with it..xbox360 has failures. Don't let your fanboy cover it up.
maveric101 @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:47PM
my guess is that NXE just changed the error reporting. it seems likely that before NXE, whatever causes this error would just have been reported as a RROD. the reasons for this are a different matter.
XLM @ Mar 23rd 2009 8:29PM
Hey Maveric101, nice icon.
DWells55 @ Mar 24th 2009 4:39PM
Seeing the error reporting theory come up again, I'll repost what I said a few days ago in the previous Joystiq article:
I've been through quite a few dead consoles and have gotten into the business of fixing failed 360s, so I'd like ot share what I've noticed recently. The E74 which has suddenly become so common shows the same symptoms prior to failure that the three red lights does. Graphic artifacts, in-game freezes, and texture corruption are quite common before the system goes into E74. This was also very common on systems with the three red lights, and, unsurprisingly, the fix is the same as well.
Of the three Xbox 360 consoles I have repaired with E74, reflowing the area around the GPU and CPU, using better thermal paste, and installing an X-clamp replacement has fixed the issue. Not once has the issue been with the scaler (ANA for pre-HDMI, HANA for HDMI systems) as this article suggests. Now, a while back, when the three red lights were common, the problem often was the scaler chip and could be fixed temporarily just by holding the chip down and permanently by reflowing it.
Anyways, what I'm getting at here is that these E74 errors are the three red lights, just presented differently. It's entirely possible for system updates to change the way the system reports errors. Since three red lights indicates "general hardware failure," making the updates affect error reporting does two things for Microsoft:
1. Gives a more specific error message to aid in the repair process.
2. Alleviates them from having to issue a free repair as part of the three year "extended service" plan which was only issued to appease a class-action lawsuit.
Sure, it sounds pretty conspiracy theory-ish, but based on my own experience in fixing E74 systems and observing systems with E74, as well as the findings of others, I wholly believe that this is the case. Microsoft has done aggressive things in system updates before. For example, when the hypervisor exploit was discovered, Microsoft blocked the ability to downgrade with a system update that actually blew eFuses in the CPU (although modders figured out that by removing a resistor, the system could be upgraded without the eFuses getting blown).
tl;dr - Microsoft has simply updated the system so what used to be reported as three red lights is now the E74, creating the illusion that the three red lights failure has been fixed and allowing them to save money from not having to do extended repairs.
Cj @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:32PM
170 emails on a site with this many viewers isn't very much. Seems like you guys are stretching a bit too far on this one.
Crusty Magic @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:34PM
No they're not, Justin made a comment in the recent podcast that the search history for 'E74' on Google has sky rocketed recently.
So it isn't just a few people in the Joystiq community having this problem.
Saria the Cat @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:38PM
You need to understand that this coverage could only HELP consumers, not harm them. Ignoring it or deeming it inconclusive can only help MS the giant corporation and no one else.
Alex Sohn @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:42PM
Circumstantial evidence aside, just the fact alone that there is an uptick in E74 errors being discussed DOES amount to something.
Whether or not you have had it happen or not. Although I do not consider myself someone who spells Microsoft with a $ and I despise with a passion Apple. I am starting to believe that they did perhaps change the firmware to report the RRoD error with this new more "general" E74 error. Perhaps Microsoft believes that some of the RRoD issues are different and are trying to segregate them because they don't believe they're liable?
Either way, this is dishearting and I'm glad joystiq is hitting this up heads first, as they are keeping us, the consumer in mind. I for one, would hate to pay the $100 plus fee to have my 360 fixed.
And if as a result of this news coverage Microsoft responds, then good for us. If not, it just serves as a reminder just how good the 360's library really is, if we're all willing to put up with this hardware crap.
Again, I'm not a 360 hater, I get more use out of that then my Wii or PS3. In fact the only game I owned for my PS3 was MGS4 and that came in the bundle, and I turned around and resold it :)
GamaFu @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:57PM
It doesn't matter if you've learned statistics or not, you know the amount of data Justin gathered isn't anywhere near enough to justify his argument. It appears to me that Justin wants to bash Microsoft's already bad image to make people "think" it's worse than they thought. Journalists should be more careful and responsible for what they say and announce.
As for why Joystiq's coverage on E74 is on top of the Google search result, if Justin even bothers to look at Google's searching algorithm, or at least read it on Wikipedia, you will know PageRank will be higher (hence people will see it on top rather then bottom page when searching) if other people blog about it or other sites refer to the posts Justin posted. Since it's the first (or one of the first) coverage regarding the issue, plus you know how popular this site is, of course it will show up on top.
Please, Justin, if you want to do it, do it right. Or hire some professional to do it.
EDIT: It's like he didn't even read the post.
McWilly @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:23PM
It does seem highly convenient that these "spike" of E74 failures has happened right after joystiq (and co) reported on this strange rise (69 lol) they thought worth making an article about.
Saria the Cat @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:32PM
After listening to your argument on the latest podcast and how you were harassed by people saying you had insufficient data or you were "bogus reporting," I have to say I am behind you 100%, Justin. You are trying to do something good for 360 owners by bringing awareness to a problem, and people need to realize that. Until MS recognizes internal hardware errors other than RRoD as "real problems," 360 owners with broken 360s but no RRoD will be SOL.
neal @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:44PM
mine actually E74 'ed on me yesterday, thankfully it was insured/under warranty and i got a replacement the same day, i was a bit pissed that this very RARE problem had to happen to me lol, im 5 xbox in now i have an Elite btw. . .
tazzman2002 @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:34PM
I had this problem before the NEX came out heck i know alot of my friends who had this problem. Its nothing new really it happen to most of the first run xboxs.
Dirty @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:33PM
I'd like to see what bullshit excuse microsoft comes up with for this. Im a big fan of the 360, I love mine and would NEED to replace it if it broke today. But jesus microsoft really needs to look at their manufacturing partners and get some good hardware. Cheap sons of bitches.
Bob @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:34PM
You are really going all out on this. Hope it leads to something worthwhile.
krellish @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:35PM
When what I think was an E74 happened to me, the NXE came out after I got it back from MS.
There was an update before the NXE for NXE software or something though.. right?
Kinmar @ Mar 23rd 2009 4:36PM
you guys are dumb... my 360 is fine... etc. etc.