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Reader Comments (33)

Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 1:32PM Saria the Cat said

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Dang, I must be the outlier since I have always been more likely to jump into a game head-first and figure out the controls myself as I go along without paying attention to what others do. I also never had problems messing around with computers on the hardware or software level. BUT I am terrible at anything STEM minus the S, that's for sure.

I do agree, though, that the female demographic is a demographic, not a genre. The only "female-targeted" game I've really ever enjoyed is the Sims. Almost verything else "for girls" is a pile of trash.

And, female writers at Joystiq? Yes please. When're you hiring? ;)
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 1:35PM Saria the Cat said

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Wait, I guess I have 50% of STEM since I am okay with the T part, too. But I wouldn't call myself an expert in either field as EE and CS majors would be.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 3:25PM Haggard said

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I think the panel might be suggesting that, far from being largely uninterested in games (who would ever suggest such a thing?), girls simply lack the intelligence to figure out two sticks and a few buttons.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 6:30PM xxxsam said

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CS majors are supposed to be experts in *any* field? News to me!

(And yes, I was one...)

More seriously, a friend of mine made a blog post some time back with an interesting graph:

http://ladylovelace.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/where-have-all-the-geek-girls-gone/

The red line is computer science. What the fuck.

Also by the way, I ordered the Wii Nancy Drew game but it never shipped - maybe I should chase that up again, or maybe they still don't have proper distribution...
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 6:40PM Saria the Cat said

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@sam: I think CS takes a special type of person who enjoys doing it. I tried out CS here at Berkeley and I nearly hung myself trying to program something to calculate bowling scores.

I'm not sure what the special ingredient for appreciating or being interested in CS is, but I don't have it and most of the people I know who do are male. I have no idea what's happening there. Possibly even though CS takes a special type of person, men are more encouraged than women to attempt the field, so the end result is more men sticking with it than women, and both sexes have equal chances of having the special CS gene.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 1:39PM xGeneral DEATHxDEETH82 said

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THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!

But seriously, I would love to see more women in gaming. In my area, most of the women who game only do it because their boyfriends/husbands do it, or they only get into Guitar Hero or DDR. I'd love to strike up a conversation with a lady who knows her way around shooters, strategy, rhythm, RPGs, et al. Well-rounded experience on a gamer chick wouldn't hurt. :)

Of course we all know that eventually gaming will take over the earth, and that women will have no choice but to be assimilated.

But until then... ;-)
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:09PM OS Perry said

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So why is it that society or the gaming industry seems compelled to draw women into the creation of video games... game developement...?

Or for them to play video games or try to get them to play games outside of casual games?

If video games as a whole don't appeal to females... why is it that were are trying to change that in a fundamental way?

If women aren't into games, why is society dictating that they must, or that they are missing out on something?

I have a 4 year old daughter... I'm into gaming... if she never shows an interest in it, I'm not going to try to force her into enjoying it... she either likes it or she doesn't. It would be cool if she showed some interest in it, so we would have something else in common, but no big deal is she doesn't.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:48PM Saria the Cat said

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Well, the industry wants girls to like games because it means a wider demographic and more money.

GirlStart want women to work in the industry because it is male-dominated and the end result AAA titles reflect that. Also, women who ARE interested may feel intimidated due to the male environment or due to the emphasis on the STEM track. Basically, there's no reason women shouldn't be working in the industry, as they would be provide a different point of view than their male counterparts and the end products will reflect that and maybe bring more women into gaming.

Saying, "Well, girls just aren't into games" is like saying, "Well, girls aren't just into electrical engineering." Gender-typing in our society is very prevalent and girls are expected by society to not be interested in games or engineering, and thus their parents won't expect them to be interested and thus will be more likely to encourage their girls to do other things they are expected to like (e.g. jump rope) or do (e.g. encourage her to be a teacher versus an engineer). Parents don't usually realize they are doing this, either. But with people pushing girls and boys on certain tracks, it's no wonder some areas of society are dominated by men and some by women. It's important to bridge this gap and be aware of gender-typing.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:56PM TheDarkWayne said

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as someone who's entire extended family is involved in engineering, no one is REALLY interested in engineering
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 10:40PM BananaBoat said

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As a member of a family that includes girls, I can tell you that most girls are genuinely more interested in "girly things" than they are in computers, video games, or anything that goes along with those. I don't think that "girly things" became "girly things" because some old male executive somewhere decided that his product was for girls, but rather because girls genuinely like those things (I'm sure there is an entire argument to be had over that, but I'm not going to. I liked GI Joes as a kid,and I don't think it had anything to do with me wanting to play with "male" toys) It could be said that if more women worked in the industry, that more games would be made for girls, and that more girls would play because of this. I don't know if the percentage of female gamers would really go up by all that much however, or rather, I don't think it would go up in the area that they are already so invested in. They'd like to get more girls to play the games they are already making, like Halo or Gears, but I think they'd find that they'd have to spend money to create games specifically geared towards women, and that their profits couldn't increase as much as they are hoping they could.

I think there is a long way to go before anyone with the power to do so is going to be willing to make a big budget AAA title that is for women specifically. Even having women on the staff (like Jade from Assassins Creed) doesn't guarantee that the end product is going to be even remotely geared towards women. The problem can't be solved by...for lack of a better word...throwing women at the problem.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2009 1:27AM Courtney said

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@Banana, perhaps the girls in your family are into "girly things" because in your family that is what they have been taught they ought to be doing. Our social and familial norms tend to drive people into their sex roles naturally, which does not mean that those roles are themselves natural.

My daughter likes girly things, but she also likes killing zombies with me in L4D and RE5.

She also likes playing around with computers, trying to learn how to code, learning how to edit audio and video and science. But she's also a very feminine girly girl at the same time. We've encouraged her to explore what she wants in life, regardless of her gender. Pisses the boys off too when they find out she can school them in Halo.

You're displaying very traditional, and in my opinion incorrect, ideas about gender roles and why each gender acts the way it does. As long as you believe that it's natural for girls to be attracted to "girly things" and not "boy-ee things", then you're helping continue a self-perpetuating cycle.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2009 2:11AM BananaBoat said

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@Courtney -

I disagree. My sisters were given every chance to play video games, and to learn how to use a computer. They did play mario and pac-man when they were little, but they always preferred playing with their dolls, playing house, and that sort of thing. No one ever forced them one way or the other, in the same way that no one ever forced me to like "boy things" like GI Joe, Voltron, and video games. I dislike the accusation that any child that ever liked anything was forced to like it by their parents.

I'm not saying that girls can't like computers and video games, rather that in my experience, they don't take to them nearly as much as boys do. On Xbox Live, when I was still playing with random people (I've since corrected that error), I came across maybe one or two girls over the course of years. Before that, on PC games stretching back years, I also only met a handful of women. I realize that most wouldn't speak out of fear of harassment , but throughout all the years I've been in school (including every girl I know now) I've only met a handful of girls that were into computers and video games. Am I meeting the wrong girls? Are most of them brainwashed like me into only liking things that are "gender appropriate"? :P

There is no solid proof to support either one of our positions, I realize that, but again, I dislike the idea that I've somehow been tricked by my parents into being a male, and liking things that society has deemed appropriate for males. I think we are a generation or two past that kind of thinking.


Or maybe I just lucked out in the parent department. Who knows.


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Posted: Mar 24th 2009 9:46AM (Unverified) said

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Your logic and lack of PC platitudes aren't welcome here, nazi!

All people (black, brown, white (well, actually, we don't care about white), handicapped, gay, eskimo, gay handicapped eskimo) MUST be involved in every area of society in EXACTLY the same percentages.

We've made a lot of progress, but We Still Have a Lot of Work to Do (tm)!
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Posted: Mar 24th 2009 11:45AM Courtney said

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@Banana

Sorry if that came off heavy handed, but I'm not saying your family forced its girls to be into girly things. I think it's just how it plays out naturally in most families. It starts very early too, with the toys given to kids. Parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles will naturally give more traditionally boy toys to boys and girl toys to girls, thus beginning the pattern of establishing gender roles. There's nothing malicious about it, it's just what most people expect is right to do.

As for your experiences on Live, I can't imagine why most girls would want to play on Live. I typically only let my daughter play with people she knows. If she really wants to play a public match, I make her take the headset off. The sexist, vulgar, attacking language I've seen girls and women subjected to on Live would discourage any female from wanting to play online.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:06PM howmuchIcarrot said

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finally some statistics that make sense. I figured it would be a little more than 20%, though. I wonder how much it is in Japan...
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:27PM howmuchIcarrot said

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"Or for them to play video games or try to get them to play games outside of casual games?"

huh? why wouldn't you want the other 50% of the population to buy your games?

"If video games as a whole don't appeal to females... why is it that were are trying to change that in a fundamental way?"

that's what people in the western comics industry have been saying for many years and they all looked stupid when manga became very popular with teen girls not that long ago.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:33PM howmuchIcarrot said

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damn you elusive reply button!!
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:22PM BigD145 said

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Barbie is perfect for its demographic? Which one is that, the Paris Hilton demographic?
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:53PM TheDarkWayne said

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All I have to say is that tutorials suck, because after you've played enough games, you really know how to play them all. Is it really necessary for something as basic as Matt Hazard to have a tutorial? On a side note whenever I went to arcades I would actually bring along my tips and tricks magazine so I knew all the best combos on my favorite machines
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 2:59PM TheDarkWayne said

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I dont get it, why to women in games have to be regular and everyday, but the men are all hulking space marine cyborg voodoo warriors?
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 3:31PM Saria the Cat said

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I wouldn't call Lara Croft your "everyday woman," especially since she basically has the proportions of a Barbie. In fact, most women in video games are super sexualized.

But yeah, hypermasculinity in the media is definitely a problem on the other side of the gender spectrum.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 3:54PM xGeneral DEATHxDEETH82 said

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"...hulking space marine cyborg voodoo warriors"

Sounds like we have a protagonist for the next installment of Shadow Man.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 5:37PM TheDarkWayne said

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I didnt mean right now, one of the people on the panel said they should be, and im not necessarily saying that women have to be ridiculous proportioned sex objects, but if they're walking alongisde genetically enhance Hulk/Vin Diesel hybrids it just isnt right to have normal women in normal attire.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 5:25PM (Unverified) said

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I'm a professional game designer with a young daughter and son (6 and 3). As a result, I have two kids who are keenly interested in the idea of making their own games. And I want to echo what Ms. Graner Ray said about the difference between the genders when approaching novel problems: my little girl is all "think, think, think", while my boy is all "try, try, try". That may change as they get older, but I smiled at the immediate parallel.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 6:05PM (Unverified) said

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You used to have an awesome female writer on the Joystiq staff. Whatever happened to her? ;)
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 9:57PM (Unverified) said

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She got TOO COOL FOR US, and left us in the dirt. Thanks for bringing that one up. Hey... waitaminute!
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 6:25PM (Unverified) said

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You know what we really need? More social engineering. More making girls into boys, and boys irrelevant. That's clearly the best course for the nation.

Funny how 'feminism' turned into 'making women into men', isn't it?

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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 6:41PM Saria the Cat said

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You're way off the mark.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2009 9:51AM (Unverified) said

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"Feminism" was ALWAYS about making women into men, and men into women.

If you don't like it, I can only assume it's because you're a racist, sexist, homophobe, anti-semite. And if you don't shut up, I'll call you those names again.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2009 9:48PM michaspi said

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"They may trick out their MySpace page, but they don't realize that's basic HTML coding."

I was thrilled when my younger sister told me that she knows some HTML tags from pasting layouts for her MySpace profile. I offered to teach her real HTML so she can code a real website someday.
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Posted: Mar 30th 2009 5:02AM (Unverified) said

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It's kind of nice to see an article like this. I grew up with nothing but brothers, the oldest of which introduced me to gaming early on. I go to the local game store here, they know me by name now, but the first couple times I went they asked if I was looking for a gift for my boyfriend or some such and I felt insulted and all I could think was "girls play games too!"

I understand that there aren't as many of us as there are male gamers but we don't all play Barbie games... the fact that it's a male dominated industry is a little discouraging to some girls, and for some of us it's a hard field to break into (work-wise), but not impossible.

It just really bothers me that some girls are turned off of gaming because the games are mostly male oriented. Sure a good portion of us enjoy shooters and strategy games, and RPG's of course, but they are so focused on appealing to male gamers with elements like scantily clad girls with huge boobs that it really just turns off a lot of the girl gamers, because we don't really want to see that... I myself would much rather have a good engaging storyline to follow than a mostly naked character to stare at the whole game through...

My apologies for the rant... I'm kinda new here...
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Posted: Mar 31st 2009 4:07PM (Unverified) said

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Wow. I met my fiancee THROUGH video games. I may only be sixteen, but he already proposed to me......over xbox live. It was hilarious. I made him do it over again in person though =P

But yeah, my dad started me off into video games when I was REALLY little-like 5 years old little. With Donkey Kong and Mario for our old SNES. I eventually got hooked on Pokemon because my uncle gave me a pokemon yellow game-but I didn't have a gameboy so my dad got me a N64 with Pokemon Stadium just so I could play it.

Its really annoying that pretty much every girl I talk to in my school that's not my friend have no clue what Halo or Legend of Zelda are. It makes me sad, really.

CRAP!........I lost the game.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2009 10:18PM (Unverified) said

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I would love to see more gamer girls, especially cute ones. But alas if they do make more 'girly' games for girls then good gamer girls shall be hard to find.
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