BBC Watchdog gets to the bottom of Xbox 360 disc scratching
by David Hinkle 
{ Mar 24th 2009 at 12:30PM } 
Taking a new Xbox 360 and one that had been known to cause the circular disc scratch, BBC Watchdog placed each console on a level surface with a vase of water next to it to help monitor movement. Then, the tests began, starting with small vibrations to simulate walking around the house. Both consoles passed, but when the strength of the vibrations was increased to the level of a book dropping on a table, the older Xbox 360 put a big ring on the disc inside of it, whereas the new unit performed swimmingly.
As always, the emphasis is on keeping the Xbox 360 on a level, safe place when playing. We understand that hardware malfunctions can be a touchy subject, but throwing a tantrum with a disc in the tray might be a bad idea.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
E++ @ Mar 24th 2009 12:36PM
Pro tip: Don't move your console while playing.
ryan @ Mar 24th 2009 12:44PM
I think there's been reports of disc scratching without moving the console. "The disc spins very close to the pickup and the tray does not prevent the disc from reaching the laser pickup"
Taken from: http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/news/Xbox-360-Game-Disc-Scratched.htm
I personally never had this happen, but good grief is the 360 faulty. I love the games and LIVE service, but the hardware just stinks.
BlackDove @ Mar 24th 2009 12:56PM
Yeah. Because all of us live alone, and we don't have anyone else passing by, or children running around, dropping whatever on the floor, like for example, a book falling down.
B @ Mar 24th 2009 1:04PM
It would help if Microsoft didn't act like it was able to stand vertically (which, in my opinion, is at it's most unstable).
Still amazes me how Microsoft went from the tank of a console that was the original Xbox to the paper like 360.
Badboy1979 @ Mar 24th 2009 1:05PM
Ryan, that article you linked to is subheaded:
DO NOT CHANGE THE POSITION OF YOUR XBOX 360 WHILE IT IS ON WITH A DISC IN THE DRIVE OR YOU RISK POTENTIALLY DAMAGING YOUR GAME DISC.
It looks like it's talking about an experience where they changing the positioning of the 360 from vertical to horizontal while a game was playing.
The quote you're using is from a edit at the bottom of the page based on "feedback from a at least two people".
Nigeria @ Mar 24th 2009 1:14PM
"Still amazes me how Microsoft went from the tank of a console that was the original Xbox to the paper like 360."
The original Xbox had problems as well. Anybody with a Day 1 console had the loudest, flimsiest disk drive ever. After six months of use, you had to stimulate the drive and give it blow jobs to get it to read your disks.
Also, Microsoft sent all us Xbox owners a replacement power plug because the packaged lead could have caused a house fire, or something like that.
Sir Buzz Killington( The Artist formerly known as Jakka) @ Mar 24th 2009 1:20PM
Common sense would dictate you don't do it to any disc-reading technology...but I stopped believing in existence of common sense during the time people broke their 50" TV's by throwing WiiMotes around.
JayFight @ Mar 24th 2009 1:42PM
common sense is not so common -voltaire
Dave @ Mar 24th 2009 1:55PM
I think its fair to say Microsoft has treated 360 as a software product. Get it out as early as possible and patch any errors. The disc scratching thing is just another example, as they have seemingly became aware of the problem and have already "patched" the issue in later builds of the console. Just a shame for earlier adopters, as they also become quality assurance testers.
Altairio @ Mar 24th 2009 2:09PM
For the earlier models, the console will eventually start scratching discs on its own. My 360 Pro sat horizontal & untouched in an entertainment center for about 3 years. This month I noticed how badly it was scracthing my games. GTA4 was getting a lot of disc read errors and took multiple tries to get it downloaded to the hard drive. Left 4 Dead looks pretty bad too, and won't even start downloading. SF4 & RE5 were already showing noticeable wear within a week of playtime. It sucks, and I replaced it with a new arcade model, but it's a sad state of affairs when you think of 3 years as a good run.
Vidikron @ Mar 24th 2009 3:12PM
"Common sense would dictate you don't do it to any disc-reading technology...but I stopped believing in existence of common sense during the time people broke their 50" TV's by throwing WiiMotes around."
That's not really true. I mean, most laptops computers seem to fair fine as do CD/DVD players in vehicles. You could certainly argue that it doesn't make much sense to move a console during play, but I don't necessarily think people have reason to expect the machine to destroy their game disc if they do so.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 24th 2009 4:54PM
My early Xbox (not first day, I refused to buy a bundle) optical drive was awful. That was the Philips one I think.
The optical drive gave up the ghost VERY early on, I sold the unit to a guy who was just going to chip it and run XBMC and didn't care about reading discs.
Anticrawl @ Mar 24th 2009 7:20PM
Conclusion of test and common sense: 99% of all ringed disc scratches are USER ERROR. Disc drive failures, RROD and other errors are almost always the manufacturers fault though.
Anticrawl @ Mar 24th 2009 7:26PM
Another fun fact is any game produced or developed by Microsoft can be replaced free of charge if it has a ring on it.
Vidikron @ Mar 25th 2009 2:36AM
LOL... 99%? Honestly, that's pure BS. I doubt many people have ever had a device that scratched their discs. Whether the device is a portable CD/DVD player, car CD/DVD player, laptop, etc... or a non-portable device like a standard DVD player or game console. And you know why? Because they're manufactured correctly.
Obviously you wouldn't want to be moving a game console while it's playing, but shit happens.... and this is especially true for a game console that is naturally going to be around kids or hauled off to LAN parties and such. It's nothing less than absurd that a 360 can actually ruin your game because of the vibration caused by a book being set down next to it. ABSURD. Only blind fanboyism can lead to defending such a thing.
Barring extreme situations where most electronics would fail, simple bumps and the like should cause a device with an optical drive to ruin the disc inside. For basically every other device on the market this result would be skip or error in playback.... for some 360's it's a ruined disc. That's unacceptable. Period.
Vidikron @ Mar 25th 2009 2:38AM
Oops... *should not cause
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 24th 2009 12:37PM
Apparently the problem is that the drive doesn't have good clamping force inside. That means the disc can deviate from the flat spin plane and get scratched more easily.
Some might not consider it a defect, because if you don't jostle the unit at all during play you won't have any problems.
But there is a way to fix it when designing the drive, which one of MS' vendors did not do.
I lost a GRAW disc to the scratch. I loaned it to a friend and his machine put the classic circle scratch on it when he bumped it.
TheDemiurge @ Mar 24th 2009 1:29PM
I wouldn't call this a defect, but I would definitely chalk it up to Microsoft being cheap, knowing that these drives could be problematic and doing nothing about it.
Rhamsey @ Mar 24th 2009 12:38PM
my 360 has been knocked down from the vertical position to being horizontal while playing and continued to play my game fine. however, i never keep it standing up any more, as i know how stupid my friends can be.
FemaleOrca @ Mar 24th 2009 12:38PM
The past 3 years has just been viral marketing for Scratch: Ultimate DJ
Collymilad @ Mar 24th 2009 12:38PM
The moral of the story: Don't drop books near your 360.
My 360 has been about 2 inches off of a wood floor (on two dvd cases to open the vents) for about 2 years now, and never once has it circular scratched a disk.
It says not to move the console whilst a disk is in the drive, end of story.
so wrong @ Mar 24th 2009 12:44PM
also dont have decent subwoofers in your home theater, as I sure as hell never move my system, yet end up with nice circles on all my games.
Jake @ Mar 24th 2009 2:02PM
There are several different vendors that MS used for this disc drive. Not all of them have had this problem. You obviously got one without this problem. It doesn't mean that others have not.
I purchased an XBOX360 brand new in December and it immediately began scratching discs, even though it sits stationary in a heavy wooden console beneath my TV and is not moved when operating. I returned it to Gamestop in exchange for another XBOX360.
The new unit has not had this problem or any other in 3 months now. It must have one of the good discs. The new unit's drive is also much quieter.
Vidikron @ Mar 24th 2009 3:15PM
"also dont have decent subwoofers in your home theater, as I sure as hell never move my system, yet end up with nice circles on all my games."
Wow... really? Your sub caused this? I guess I'd better check my games to see if this has happened to me. But my current 360 is a fairly new Falcon, so I probably doesn't have this issue anyway.
Lord Negatron @ Mar 24th 2009 4:32PM
@ so wrong
You sir, play your games way too loud and if your set up with the subwoofer is causing scratches, then i am just going to say your set up sucks...
Boom KRASH Krakoom! .........................E P I C!!!
http://media.southparkstudios.com/media/images/1110/1110_michael_bay.jpg
Vidikron @ Mar 24th 2009 5:15PM
"You sir, play your games way too loud and if your set up with the subwoofer is causing scratches, then i am just going to say your set up sucks..."
Not sure what makes you think that. Deep base can easily cause vibrations without being very loud. I can be watching movies at fairly normal levels (i.e. like in a theater... which is loud, but not absurd) and my sub can cause the plates in the kitchen to rattle and doors/windows to shake.
Lord Negatron @ Mar 24th 2009 5:22PM
I know your right Vidikron, honestly, i just needed some type of scapegoat to put up South Parks Micheal Bay...
"Vrooosh! and then a plane like, Frrauush!"
:P
so wrong @ Mar 24th 2009 6:43PM
exactly,I hardly put my system pass the 1/3 mark. I do have an 800 watt sub, but that too is normally resting at like a level 4 during most game play. By the way I had my yearly physical last month and my hearing is great. :)
Jack Tretton @ Mar 24th 2009 12:41PM
"It wouldn't kill Microsoft to greater emphasize how important it is to keep the Xbox 360 on a level, safe place when playing..."
Surely. For without such an "emphasis" people might strap it to the family pet, or hang it from the ceiling using a shoelace, or use it for pinata-whacking practice.
F.E.F Red Fury @ Mar 24th 2009 1:16PM
People are stupid enough to do that.
Dr. Stabbingworth @ Mar 24th 2009 12:43PM
It's nice to see Joystiq using its influence to attempt to bring out change. I love my 360, but there are problems that MS needs to address.
Dr. Stabbingworth @ Mar 24th 2009 12:44PM
Er, I meant problems in general. I would attribute this more to user error, despite the fix LS2/LS7 posted above.
Snake Robot Podium @ Mar 24th 2009 12:44PM
Scientific method FTW! I'd like to know if there is a difference when the console is standing or sitting. I got my Elite last Xmas, am I in danger?
Ignatius @ Mar 24th 2009 12:47PM
Well, yeah, if it's standing, your chances of toppling the console are much greater. It's just more unstable vertically than horizontally.
Just use that giant 120GB drive and install every game you own, then it won't ever read from the disk anyway.
Angusailde @ Mar 24th 2009 12:47PM
Call me crazy, but when I have discs spinning at several thousand RPMs, I try not to shake the machine around. The system isn't designed to be knocked around while in use.
MS should really put a warning about that for people with no common sense, the way Nintendo puts a warning about the remote before everything you do on the Wii.
Rocketboy @ Mar 24th 2009 12:51PM
Soo, everyone with scratched disks were using their 360 to play Samba De Amigo?
sam @ Mar 24th 2009 1:13PM
So wait a minute, not only can't you have the stereo up loud, but you're not allowed to even drop a book while you're playing a game? WTF?
I mean I don't have kids but what if there's a toddler in the house and s/he decides to, you know, jump up and down a bit in the room. No problem! Unless you own a 360.
If it's really as easy to trigger as the story suggests then this is not a 'no common sense' issue like throwing your Wii remote through the TV and complaining the TV breaks, or putting your 360 into a locked cupboard and complaining that it overheats.
What some people seem to be missing though is that this is fixed - it was broken in the old systems, it isn't broken in the new ones. So that's good news right?
Kodros @ Mar 24th 2009 1:41PM
"Call me crazy,"
You're crazy.
Collymilad @ Mar 24th 2009 12:55PM
Basically this whole thing comes down to personal responsibility.
Or, the complete lack of which exists nowadays.
Take care of your bloody consoles and there wont be any problems. But no, people want to be able to boot around their console with a disk in and expect it not to scratch.
uncle jesse @ Mar 24th 2009 1:06PM
I think it's more about the numerous amount of problems that have come from the system than anything. I treat my 360 like a new born baby, laying it down slowly and gently if I ever have to move it. I've never done that with a console before.
As much as the Gamecube was made fun of, it had a handle on it! I get that this is a new age with new technologies far greater than any other generation before, but consoles aren't supposed to be so touchy are they?
Saria the Cat @ Mar 24th 2009 1:36PM
@Collymilad: Of course you aren't supposed to abuse your console, and anyone that does deserves to have it broken. But you shouldn't have to be paranoid about treating it like a baby. It's not a solid piece of hardware if it can't take someone dropping a book nearby. I deal with electronics all the time and I never have to worry about the kind of crap I have to worry about with my 360.
Markez @ Mar 24th 2009 3:17PM
"Take care of your bloody consoles and there wont be any problems." Not remotely accurate.
To Jesse's point, the Gamecube was a friggin' tank.
Collymilad @ Mar 24th 2009 12:56PM
As for subs/home theatre etc - if you're having it so loud it's making the ground shake enough to scratch the disk, get your ears checked ffs.
oodlesofnoodles @ Mar 24th 2009 5:17PM
So you're saying that I can't use my expensive home theater for gaming? That's funny, because any other system I use doesn't have a problem, neither does my DVD/CD player. If I can't crank up the sound when I'm playing Gears of War, then I don't want to play it at all.
B3astofthe3ast @ Mar 24th 2009 12:57PM
My CoD2 still has a perfect circle on it, and I couldn't play certain levels online...
joeybeast @ Mar 24th 2009 12:58PM
When my BenQ drive laser died last week, the discs was ejecting still spinning, violently.
But thankfully no scratch.
HighFiveJesus @ Mar 24th 2009 12:59PM
Do not place near TV when playing. Do not bump, move, or vibrate any object in the room while playing. Do not have people moving around while playing. Do not question our console when it scratches your discs, this is your fault and probably happens all the time.
HighFiveJesus @ Mar 24th 2009 1:04PM
also if you expect children to use the console, don't let them. If you have friends playing with the console, instruct them to sit down and not get up until the machine is off. Do not let them use it when you are not around as they will surely be stupid and cause the disc to scratch.
playwhutyalike @ Mar 24th 2009 1:48PM
Do not insert into mouth or rectum.
Altairio @ Mar 24th 2009 2:21PM
Do not taunt Xbox 360.