GDC09: Watch The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks in action

So, are Zelda games now going to be based upon your mode of transportation? I thought that Windwaker's boat was the part that everybody hated about the game. This seems worse? Let's take that aspect, and then remove any sort of Exploration by putting you on rails.

/hanssolo
I have a bad feeling about this.
/endhanssolo

Hmm... well, they are "spirit tracks", so it could be possible that you make the railway when you draw the path (similar to how the boat worked)

And the sailing wasn't the bad part of PH. Hell, the sailing was vastly improved over WW's. The problem was the small map that you could explore while sailing. The true problem with PH was the ocean king's temple. That was a pain in the ass to re-do each time you beat another dungeon.

I'll agree. The sailing was vastly improved in Phantom Hourglass. It was the repetition created by repeating the same dungeon many times (and a stealth dungeon as well!) that caused problems.

Everybody who hated that temple is doing it wrong. You might as well hate Ikaruga because you're forced to do the first level over and over if you want to get anywhere. Except, in PH you only have to do the dungeon very few times if you don't completely suck, and you get a warp point about halfway so after you've done the first half like twice (at least I remember it was twice) you never have to do it again, and on top of all that, the dungeon is practically different every time you go there because you have new items to do different stuff! But all you hear is "oh noes gotta do the same dungeon 2345765timesxinfinity wahhhh". And at the same time they complain the game is too casualized. Ugh.

bm's words are truth. I can vouch for Ikaruga. Game's hard, but still fun.

Am I the only one who loved pretty much everything about Wind Waker (-first stealth level)? I thought the sailing was actually pretty fun.

I enjoyed the sailing a great deal in WW, but frankly one of the first bits in PH where you have to go through the fog my boat kept getting smoked over and over, really pissed me off.

I thought WW was absolutely inredible, and I loved everything about it. PH? Temple of the Ocean King is game-breaking and completely ruined the experience for me.

@cknblade

I agree with you completely, WW was an absolute masterpiece! I remember when it came out everyone was tearing it apart because of the "cartoony" look, but I thought it looked gorgeous. Then when I played it I was completely immersed in it and loved it's style. I remember even my parents were amazed when they saw it. That game is silky smooth to play and it will always be one of my top 10 games. Love it.

Truthfully, I didn't play PH, and most likely won't get this. Zelda is one of those games I really don't like playing on a handheld...if I'm playing on the go, give me quick action, platforming, or an RPG. Leave FPS and adventure at home. That's why I'm kind of bittersweet to see this, because I don't see another cel-shaded zelda game happening on the console, only on DS/DSi/DS360(Dum dum dum...).

Never even tried it. Fun?

Hell yeah it was. Just the problem of the occasional jerk who would turn off their DS because they were losing, but that's like a lot of DS games.

After seeing the frontal, leather-y view of link in the conductor's seat, I half expected them to do a 360 to reveal Link was, in fact, wearing ass-less chaps...*shudder*.

it's the same resolution as phantom hourglass, which looked fantastic. keep in mind the trailer is blown up on your monitor so you can actually see it, when it's in the native DS resolution it looks great.

when PH was first announced we all had this same discussion...

PS: i am not a fan of the train. i liked the boat because it still gave you some freedom to go wherever you wanted. a train is taking 'on rails' too far

Resolution doesn't change how blocky-looking something is. It just makes it harder to notice. It's polycount that makes something look rounder.

I never played PH because it didn't get much critical praise, so I passed on it.

Didn't get much critical praise?? It's tied for the 3rd highest DS game on metacritic.

A 90 metacritic - the fourth highest ratest DS game ever - is 'not much critical praise'? WTF are you smoking?

And the graphics is low-poly but really (in PH) it looks fine. Sure it's not as impressive as GTA:DS (everyone said that looked bad - wow, how wrong can you get) and it was an obvious step down from the GC quality of Wind Waker, but it does the job. And that cutscene? Sooooooooooooooo cute.

Personally, I didn't like Phantom Hourglass as much as other Zelda games - I'd still give it that 90 rating though :) Nothing to do with the repetitive dungeon, that was ok, it was really the ship. I absolutely loved sailing in WW (yes, I know, nobody else did) and in TPH it wasn't near as nice because the steamship didn't feel as 'you are there' as the sailboat, and you couldn't even really control it.

I don't suppose I'll like the train any better but at least it's amusing. Anyway, I'm sure this will be another great portable Zelda game, I was surprised at the announcement and I'm really looking forward to it. Not as much as I'll be looking forward to the next Wii Zelda whenever they finally get around to *that*, though. :)

"I never played PH because it didn't get much critical praise"

Are you serious? Jesus christ you're a tool.

Wind Waker boat felt more like sailing. A brilliant combination would be free sailing with the option to then still sail, but on a fixed predetermined path, when the need for a cannon is presented, since I didn't like feeling like a sitting duck every time I had to take out my cannon in Wind Waker.

All I ever heard about it was "I didn't like Phantom Hourglass as much as other Zelda games" (which is the trick to scoring 9s, I guess) and the 3D Zelda's never did it for me. So if it wasn't as good as games I didn't like, why would I be interested?
I don't subscribe to Game Informer or look at meta-critic or follow IGN or any of that jazz. Sorry. But I never heard anyone tell me it was amazing.
I just stuck my foot in my mouth. Sometimes I make off-hand remarks like I was in the Special Olympics or something.

So hopefully it gets a 91 on Metacritic? That game was very polished. It upheld the pride in quality that comes w/ a Zelda franchise.

I haven't seen anyone bitch about this yet, so I'm gonna throw it out: I'm very happy to see fruit from the "we're working on it!" claim w/ regards to Zelda, and I don't mean to sound like a spoiled brat or something, but seriously, I want a new Zelda game on the Wii. Please to be showing that as well.

As opposed to the rich RPG style of the "adult" Zelda games? Please, Zelda has always been about adventure over "meaning". What exactly is "meaningful" in OoT or TP? They're simple, morally-polar titles that encourage exploration of the digital universe over the exploration of one's psyche.

The cel-shaded games are just a different style of the same formula that has proven itself.

I never used the words RPG. I thought that OOT took Zelda in a more mature direction that was somewhat undone by Windwaker (though I still enjoyed it), not to mention the deep story which took a simple tried and true Zelda concept and turned it on its head. They also delved deeper into the story, going into Link's childhood, adulthood, and even Ganandorf's. Remember his mother? The Gerudo Desert? The fact the characters around Link grew up with him, and weren't 2-Dimensional. They had real, believable personalities. Let's not forget the (somewhat annoying) addition of Navi and her story and guidance.

There was a lot more going in that game than you're giving it credit for.

@Temidien: You can't deny that OoT and Majora's Mask or even Twilight Princess had much darker moods than Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass. They also had richer atmospheres and subtle emotional aspects. Come on, the scene with Link leaving Saria? Touching, man.

...Not that I, Saria, would be biased towards a Zelda game in any way.

First off this is all IMHO so please don't get upset. You have a viewpoint that is valid that I am simply arguing against because I feel mine is more so. I'd rather neither of us got ghosted for this, it's fun having these debates.

I never said you used the term "RPG", but I felt it was implied with your use of the term "regular adventure games" to describe the cel-shaded games. From my experience, traditional RPGs have featured meatier stories than "adventure" titles because of the inherent flow of action in their respective gameplay. Obviously there are exceptions, but I was just using that as a rule of thumb to introduce my point...

...a point I feel you missed. Having played through OoT and TP, I found little in it that added more "depth" than the 2-D Zelda and cel-shaded titles. Inserting more story elements does not necessarily make a game "deeper", though it typically makes the game-world more hospitable. What I'm arguing is that the games didn't do a very good job of introducing philosophical or ethical plot points (something it does not, by any means, HAVE to do). What I am arguing is that the lack of such elements in the cel-shaded titles should not be weighed as a con against the "mature" titles because those same titles are also missing such "mature" story elements.

OoT and TP had "mature" graphics, but not necessarily "mature" plot elements.

@Saria

I love that scene too, but I don't believe it makes it any better a game than Wind Waker. WW featured several "subtle emotional aspects" that are often ignored because they were often times humorous.

Also, a darker tone doesn't mean a better narrative. TP was downright bleak at some points and I stopped playing at one point for a few weeks because it was moody to the point of exhaustion.

Nothing breaks immersion in a game like wanting to cut your wrists.

@Temidien: Okay, maybe we're looking back at these titles through rosy nostalgia-tinted glasses, but maybe not.

Especially in Majora's Mask's case. I'd say the precedent itself is a very mature element --- 3 day impending apocalypse? A social/philosophical commentary on how society works like clockwork, how people are creatures of habit, how rumors and folklore penetrate societies, how different cultures interact, how people act under pressure. There was also a realistic portrayal of interactions and relationships between people, how they begin, end. Don't forget the time element. I'd say Majora's Mask at least has a lot of great ideas that are easily overlooked by younger gamers and picked up on by older ones. That's what makes the environment and gameplay richer, IMHO.

@Temedien: But, yes, it all comes down to personal taste and opinion. I'm not arguing that Wing Waker was "less" of a game. I thought it was rich in its own ways and it was a fresh perspective to bring to the Zelda franchise. I am a HUGE fan of all the Zelda games. I just prefer the N64's and would love to a similar take again.

To be honest, I also found Twilight Princess a bit dull. Kind of like everyone was moody for no reason.

Majora's Mask supposedly had the most mature story of them all, if you are willing to believe the MM lore theorists (some guy did a huge writeup which hypothesized that Termina was a world where the angry female gods had sent their wrath against the land for their male idolation. It's a fascinating read, even if I don't think Eiji Aonuma could have possibly intended for that to be the real story).

I've got work to finish, so I can't argue about this right now. All I'll say is that I'm annoyed that Nintendo would dare to reveal a DS Zelda when there are so many Wii's gathering dust all across this earth, just waiting for some Zelda love.


*grumble*

If Nintendo we smart, they would not do what you just said.
releasing a Nintendo DSi exclusive/DSiWare title would, in fact, alienate 98,000,000 Nintendo DS/DS lite owners.. that's not a smart move you just stated.

Do you know how much whining that would cause.

Or it would motivate 98,000,000 DS/DSlite owners to see a significant reason to upgrade to the DSi. Companies generally release a "must have" game with their systems, such as Twilight Princess for Wii. Does the DSi have any big games that make people feel like they need to buy it? I haven't seen any...if this was being released as DSi only I would buy a DSi on launch day.

If Nintendo were smart they wouldn't have made the DSi to begin with. What few bucks they make off soccer moms who can't tell the difference between it and the Lite is overshadowed by the whining of the millions who have already purchased a DS and will not re-purchase for gimmicky new features.

Yeah. Because Twilight Princess was an exclusive Wii title- oh wait.

First of all, how dare you suggest such an atrocity. Second of all...BURN HIM!

"If Nintendo were smart they wouldn't have made the DSi to begin with. What few bucks they make off soccer moms who can't tell the difference between it and the Lite is overshadowed by the whining of the millions who have already purchased a DS and will not re-purchase for gimmicky new features."

http://gonintendo.com/?p=76712

I'm not in support of them doing this, I already have a DSlite and at the moment and see no reason at all to upgrade to a DSi. If Nintendo did make this DSi only on the other hand, I would buy a DSi. Nintendo knows this is going to sell well regardless if it were on DS or DSi, so from a business perspective I don't see why they wouldn't want to push out a lot more DSi's with this game being a reason to purchase it.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo did the same kind of things when going from Gameboy Pocket to Gameboy Color. Games like Pokemon Crystal, the Mario Bros Remake/Lost Levels, and the 2 Zelda GBC only games motivated me to purchase that. Just like this Zelda would motivate me to purchase me and many others to purchase a DSi, sure some of you would whine, but you'd get over it eventually.

Don't even suggest such a thing for risk that they'll find this and get the idea!

In honesty, this, or another Mario Bros, would be the only games likely to force a DSi purchase from me. I don't see any reason for them to do it though. The money they'd make from DSi purchases might not cover losses from those who couldn't buy this Zelda. I don't have enough gaming time to justify another console purchase already.