GDC09: Attorney discusses top censorship issues facing industry
by Alexander Sliwinski 
{ Mar 27th 2009 at 3:00AM }
- Labeling laws.
- Studies funded by taxpayer dollars seeking a correlation between video games and violence. He believes the first one that shows something statistically significant will cause serious issues for the industry.
- "The politically correct censorship emerging from the left," which has occurred since the political landscape changed. He believes it's the same "thought police stuff," it's just now coming from the other side of the political aisle.
- Germany's censorship issues when dealing with violent video games.
- Australia's lack of M-rating for games causing "de facto bans."
- "A lack of understanding that free expression is a basic human right." Walters stated that stifling human creativity isn't good. Some people might not like a certain game, but he believes it still has the right to exist.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 27th 2009 3:41AM
What does politically correct censorship have to do with violent video games? Political correctness usually has to do with discrimination (typically race). What's that have to do with violence?
Did I miss something here?
WiredKnight @ Mar 27th 2009 3:47AM
Yes, you did.
They're two separate issues.
And political correctness is a lot more than just racism and discrimination.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 27th 2009 10:56AM
So what else is political correctness? Since you say I missed something, please fill me in.
WiredKnight @ Mar 27th 2009 2:13PM
When I said you missed something, I was merely pointing out that you were putting together the two separate points.
Political correctness is a lot more broad than that. In the largest sense, it relates to anything you say or do in certain situations. Being politically correct in a field like video games mostly influences the kind of content that's being produced, and the messages it sends.
To be fair though, a good amount of political correctness does involve discrimination of some sort.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 27th 2009 2:26PM
No, I didn't do that. They are together in a single paragraph above.
See the paragraph talking about political correctness from the left? It says it's the same as... then click the link provided. The link is to an article about trying to censor violent games. Thus the paragraph says violent games and political correctness are the same thing. I'm asking why this is so.
WiredKnight @ Mar 27th 2009 3:50AM
Just remember: as much as they "link" or "correlate," they're merely relationships. No amount of statistical data can prove anything. Even a strong positive correlation between violent video games and violent behavior does not prove _causation_.
sonicspike41 @ Mar 27th 2009 8:07AM
Some one has been reading XKCD recently...
pseth @ Mar 27th 2009 10:03AM
While you can't show causation with a basic correlational study, you can get close with advanced correlational designs (e.g. Structural Equation Modeling and Cross-lagged panel longitudinal designs). Furthermore, carefully conducted and controlled experimental studies (in which you manipulate one variable while holding other variables constant through random assignment) can show causality.
These types of analyses and designs have been used to study the link between violent video games and aggression and there is some confirmatory evidence. THere are still holes to be filled and the evidence is not incredibly strong, but it is there.
Although correlation does not equal causation is a fine argument against basic correlational evidence, it cannot discount everything. I suggest that gamers become a little more informed on statistics so that they can actually pose good arguments. If you are in college, or plan to attend, I suggest you take a course in psychological research methods and statistics. It would do well to help you in your cause.
WiredKnight @ Mar 27th 2009 2:20PM
I'm quite aware of all that, thank you very much. No need to talk down to me.
Of course there are studies and other experiments beyond basic correlations that can further prove/disprove their points. But for now, all anyone's presented has been basic correlations, and so that's all I was referring to.
pseth @ Mar 27th 2009 3:19PM
I was not talking down. Just providing information in case you, or anyone else, was unaware. To not provide this information leaves people uninformed and lends any argument about causality open to misinterpretation - which I have seen a lot of concerning this debate.
On a different note - Mr. Walters should be informed that not all research in this area is conducted using taxpayer money. This research is conducted at both private and public universities. Much of this research (including my own) is unfunded. Of the research that is funded, some is indeed conducted with the aid of government grants, but some of the research is funded through private organizations.
WiredKnight @ Mar 29th 2009 3:41AM
Fair enough.
Anticrawl @ Mar 27th 2009 4:03AM
What is this political correctness you speak of? I'm sorry but I have a minor in sociology/communication so I moved away from trivial things like that long ago. Reality is not pretty and anything I could say on this topic would probably offend a lot of people regardless of it being true because of this "political correctness" that has made people so damn sensitive they can't face any truth or problem. They'd rather play nice, brush things under the rug and move on without fixing the things that rot humanity from it's very core. Sociology is fun kids, if you want an easy minor or major for that matter in college you might just develop a sense of humor or at the very least develop the ability to not go off in a fit of retarded rage at a hint of non-pc topics or truth (not to be confused but sometimes similar to logical truth, it's a lot more complicated since most people are panicky irrational creatures.) I think everyone in customer service should have some communication or sociology class, would certainly help with the amount of abuse they receive (and sometimes give).
el serpiente @ Mar 27th 2009 10:34AM
Umm, great. You have a minor in Sociology.
Now that you're done patting yourself on the back, why not explain what are some trends of thoughts in modern sociology that serve to refute the rationale behind social forces like game censorship or "political correctness" in general?
This would advance the discussion better than just telling everyone how special you think you are.
manyquestions @ Mar 27th 2009 6:55PM
I agree with el serpiente.
I don't like "political correctness" either, but that shouldn't absolve anyone from common courtesy or the basic need to give others respect. I understand that you probably mentioned your sociology minor to establish your credibility, but we didn't need an entire half of your post to be devoted to reminding us how retarded we must all automatically be simply for not being trained in sociology.
That minor could've been put to better use for that post, by actually giving us a scientific bacing for our true, but tired argument of political correctness making people oversensitive.
Cytech @ Mar 27th 2009 4:32AM
In some parallel universe, or the current one, playing a violent video game such as FPS or Manhunt... Could justify you as a terrorist... Media coverage of tragic events such as school shootings always seems like video games are too blame.
Cytech @ Mar 27th 2009 4:10AM
In some parallel universe, or the current one, playing a violent video game such as FPS or Manhunt... Could justify you as a terrorist... Media coverage of tragic events such as school shootings always seems like video games are too blame. The real reason behind video games being targeted by the media is because the assumption that it's core audience is children. Just annoys me that we need to blame something to feel "safer".
Anticrawl @ Mar 27th 2009 4:17AM
Hell just the media in news by itself is more violent and disturbing than any game I've ever played. There will always be a scapegoat though, we have to point the blame somewhere. Problem is if we are willing to remove responsibility we lose freedoms, which is happening now. We don't want to take responsiblity for issues so someone else has to and it just eats away at our rights. You can't have freedom without responsiblity, it's not just for one and it doesn't work either.
Rice @ Mar 27th 2009 4:14AM
What the *censored*.
Anticrawl @ Mar 27th 2009 4:18AM
I think it's either an Orange Juice carton or Spongebob Squarepants. I wonder if anyone remembers when we (society) were blaming kids being homosexual on subliminal messages from orange juice ads or Spongebob.
t_m @ Mar 27th 2009 4:26AM
Isn't political correctness another word for politeness and not being a dick?
While I agree that all the studies and politicians gunning for gaming isn't a great thing... i still don't see the fuss about a rating system/labeling law.
I'm still interested by how much Joystiq misrepresented that law that was proposed in Utah. Reading the joystiq coverage i was totally against it, but reading more about it it wasn't at all as we were told... crappy tabloid journalism ftl.
Nick8708 @ Mar 27th 2009 6:11AM
Political correctness and politeness aren't synonyms. Being politically correct means you're subjugating yourself to the rules of others in how you think, act, and speak. Allowing political correctness to rule your life takes away your inherent right to freedom of thought and expression. Being polite is thoughtful, respectful person out of your own free will.
Pertaining to the Utah bill, it was absolutely positioned as a stepping stone for Jack Thompson and his like minded brethren to be used to continue his crusade against the games industry. There's no doubt in my mind that the first violation of the law would have been resulted in him crying foul on games and pushing for a far more stringent, farther reaching law. The law itself wasn't so bad, but the precedent it would have set is unwelcome nonetheless. Anyways, the Utah governor was right about it being counter intuitive as it'd actively discourage the use of the ESRB ratings in Utah, but perhaps that was the idea all along. I could see publishers removing the ESRB ratings from games sold in Utah and then Thompson using that as an excuse to push for a legislated ratings system in the state since the games industry would no longer be self-regulated in that state.
Nick8708 @ Mar 27th 2009 6:19AM
Negativecool reminded me of something I wanted to mention regarding Political Correctness.
Mario is a polite game. However, it's a politically incorrect one in how it portrays Italians. He's a fat, greasy haired plumber with a bulbous nose, big curly moustache, and a thick, over emphasized accent. What he should really say is, "It'sa me, an Italian stereotype!"
I have nothing against Mario, but if you really wanted to be politically correct you should have a problem with how Mario represents Italians.
sonicspike41 @ Mar 27th 2009 8:23AM
Nick, that's why I love tshirthell. "What about all the good things Hitler did?" always makes for good conversation. Most of their shirts are like a steaming pile of dung on the face of political correctness.
Also, I think Larry the Cable Guy said it best, "Vertically challenged native-American riding hood..." Yeah, that's the story I want to read to my kids every night.
The Dark Wayne @ Mar 27th 2009 8:38AM
I'd rather read my kids that than have them listen to Larry the Cable Guy.
HIYO!
RankHypocrisy @ Mar 27th 2009 9:34AM
Political correctness is NOT politeness.
” Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.” - Theodore Dalrymple
Negativecool @ Mar 27th 2009 5:04AM
The general public and "leftist" politicians do realize that adults play video games, right?
I'm an adult. I don't want my "M" rated games taken away like they are trash because some censorship-for-all whackjobs were misinformed about what video games have become/are. Hint: They aren't Mario from 1985.
They know this right?
sonicspike41 @ Mar 27th 2009 8:14AM
You mean I can't run around using 'shrooms to become stronger? I can't jump on turtles and use them to end the life of another?
Even Mario's a cold blooded killer if you really dig deep into it. I can't believe the media haven't singled him out yet. Hell, more kids probably played Super Mario Brothers than Manhunt or Madworld.
What made Mario different, the 2D style? In that case I wanna make a 2D game where Mario rescues the prince and they kiss at the end, see how Jack Thompson likes that.
The Dark Wayne @ Mar 27th 2009 8:38AM
it's because jumping on mushrooms is far less explicit than cutting people in half with a chainsaw and being able to look at all their guts fully rendered. Seriously, you're kidding yourself if you think Mario deserves as much flak from these guys as something like MadWorld or Gears
sonicspike41 @ Mar 27th 2009 8:53AM
Ah but back in the day there wasn't 3D rendering, which was part of my point... just not very well expressed I suppose.
Is it okay to have violence in a game if it's done in a cartoon way? What if every enemy in Manhunt bled green or rainbow colored, would it make it any less offensive to people? What about games like the original DOOM? It seems that the more real a game becomes, the more we want to hate it for all it does.
I knew a kid that played Tomb Raider and later on started saying, "Bang bang, I shot you, you're dead!" This was when he was probably 6-7 years old. Why do these people only target games made for adults (M/18+) and say they create violence in kids? Why don't these people just release PSAs for the ESRB to remind parents to fulfill their parental duties.
pseth @ Mar 27th 2009 10:34AM
Woah! why are leftists being blamed here? THere are many politicians on the other side of the aisle that champion this issue as well. Also, conservative groups (religious organizations) have long been against violent video games due to their "corruption" of family values and youth.
This is one of the few cases where there is bipartisanship
xGeneral DEATHx @ Mar 27th 2009 10:37AM
YOUR MOTHER IS A CLASSY LADY!
Mr Khan @ Mar 27th 2009 1:22PM
The leftists dislike the violence, the rightists dislike the sex. So both find common targets quite frequently (like GTA)
Slashee the Cow @ Mar 27th 2009 5:20AM
"Australia's lack of M-rating for games causing "de facto bans.""
Our M rating is fine, thank you. It's the R rating (or lack thereof) which is the trouble.
OLDMIKE @ Mar 27th 2009 8:14AM
the M rating is just like the R in movies 17+
or did you want the AO rating
sonicspike41 @ Mar 27th 2009 8:17AM
OLDMIKE, Australia has an M (15+) rating. What they have is no M (18+) or R (17-18+) rating. So any game that isn't suitable for someone below the age of 18 gets banned or heavily edited so that it is suitable for people age 15.
michael @ Mar 27th 2009 8:44AM
I wonder how Jack Thompson will react to his comment?? Anybody would like to add how JT would react.
thediminished5th @ Mar 27th 2009 10:08AM
I imagine he would go something like this:
whine, bitch, moan... i'm still relevant!... whine bitch, moan
Evan @ Mar 27th 2009 8:57AM
"Studies funded by taxpayer dollars seeking a correlation between video games and violence"
Common sense connects alcohol to drunk driving, and alcohol leads to many more deaths than video games could possibly be connected to, but politicians wouldn't dare ban beer, or even beer advertising! But they can't wait to ban violent video games. It's beyond stupid.
Pathie @ Mar 27th 2009 10:02AM
Did you forget what happened in the Prohibition Era? :(
Levi (God Hand Defense Force) @ Mar 27th 2009 12:45PM
It seems that the US Government itself forgot about the Prohibition Era Pathie.
s.tam @ Mar 27th 2009 10:04AM
The world isn't fair. Video games is sadly a scapegoat for many things. There are larger issues than violence due to video games (There may be a slight correlation) . However thee are more prompting issues but they insist on these issues.
No thank you, I would like to keep my M rated games.
Levi (God Hand Defense Force) @ Mar 27th 2009 12:53PM
Interesting, many people seem to be concerned about the threat of political correctness, yet no one has mentioned RE5 yet. I don't know what game he is referring to that was censored, but the controversy that RE5 caused was the first thing that came to my mind.
Mr Khan @ Mar 27th 2009 1:24PM
They'll have a long way to go to get any statistical backing, so that fear is more or less averted. Violent people will play violent games (which isn't to say that all people who play violent games are violent themselves), violent games don't make violent people.
golobulus @ Mar 27th 2009 2:19PM
here's a solution, parents... don't let your kids buy the games you don't want them to play!
Elmoogle @ Mar 27th 2009 3:18PM
"Studies funded by taxpayer dollars seeking a correlation between video games and violence."
The very thought of this is hilarious to me because of the way it throws the scientific method straight out of the window.
Assumption.
Research.
Repeat research until something that can be misrepresented to support your assumption pops up.
Conclusion.
Picketing and witch-burning.
Josh @ Mar 27th 2009 4:01PM
"A lack of understanding that free expression is a basic human right." Walters stated that stifling human creativity isn't good. Some people might not like a certain game, but he believes it still has the right to exist.
I'm just echoing it, because it's so true.
RankHypocrisy @ Mar 27th 2009 4:47PM
On what basis is "free expression a basic human right"?
Josh @ Mar 27th 2009 5:04PM
On this basis:
stfu
manyquestions @ Mar 27th 2009 7:08PM
On the basis that without it, democracies cannot properly exist, that if you take away people's right to free expression, they no longer have any ability whatsoever to stop the government from taking away no other right it could ever possibly want to short of a revolution.
It may be a slow process, but a country that does not recognize the right to free expression, will eventually becom a 1984-style Orwellian absolute dictatorship. No exceptions.
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