Ancel says 9/11 influenced Beyond Good & Evil
by Ben Gilbert 
{ Apr 4th 2009 at 12:30PM }
He also revealed that this sequel will be a direct continuation of the story from the original BG&E, saying, "The story continues and we'll react on important events of the first." We've still got no good information on platforms or release date but hopefully the upcoming re-embiggened E3 Expo will shed some light on the game. "Players who like the first should like the second," Ancel left the interviewer with. We're keeping hope alive.
[Via GamePolitics]
Gallery: Beyond Good & Evil 2
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Xero @ Apr 4th 2009 12:51PM
great game. if you have not played it, do so. if you have, play it again. if you have played it twice, let it marinate for a month or two and then... you guessed it... play it again.
Comtar @ Apr 4th 2009 1:14PM
I could tell that by the plot this was the case, but I didn't mind it. Beyond Good and Evil was one of the best games (I personally liked it more then Wind Waker that year) and I look forward to a sequel.
I wish the game had a more complete experience like Valkyria Chronicles, I think it kinda sucked this game thought it would get a sequel easily and left the story open. Hopefully this time they won't take that risk, but still leave it open just a little bit, for a sequel.
nutman @ Apr 4th 2009 12:57PM
Oh boy. Just what I need in my videogames: Political agendas being pushed onto me.
Because we don't get that enough in movies and TV shows...
I hope I am wrong because I was looking forward to this game. Maybe they can do it right, who knows.
Moptimus Slime (Gobot in disguise) @ Apr 4th 2009 1:03PM
Metal Gear Solid says "Hello, BROTHER"
Sly (PSN slycooper_rocker) @ Apr 4th 2009 1:25PM
metal gear had a great story though. they could have left it at 'you spy. you go in big place and destroy big scary thing. you hero. repeat x4' but they managed to make a really great story.
Moptimus Slime (Gobot in disguise) @ Apr 4th 2009 1:32PM
It also managed to beat you to death with its "hidden meaning"
MGS: OMG NUKES ARE BAAAAAAAAAD!
MGS2: OMG THE GOVERNMENT IS LYING TO YOUZ!!!!
MGS 3-4: I haven't had a lot of time with these two
Batzarro @ Apr 4th 2009 1:58PM
Uh, he reffered to the 1rst game. If you played it, and just now, now that it's being plainly said to you it was influenced by those events, feel wrongly about the game, then that says something about the games subtlety, and something about your ability to cope with discerning opinions.
Plush, the "pushing up agenda" comment is stupid wherever it can be found.
doreo @ Apr 5th 2009 2:29PM
Moptimus- "Metal Gear Solid says "Hello, BROTHER"
i think you meant Hulk Hogan.....
Anyways, I loved the first game! I can't wait for the second, I feel like the political overtones don't affect the game negatively. They only help the player to relate to the story, giving for an emotional experience.
nutman @ Apr 4th 2009 2:56PM
Ok batzarro.
Mr. Lif @ Apr 4th 2009 3:21PM
Just what we need. More folks posting before they actually READ THE SOURCE
Charlie_Six @ Apr 4th 2009 6:44PM
I think political messages in games is murky territory, ethically speaking. The propaganda seen in TV, books, and film already has concerning issues due to everything being a one-way communication. Video games make the issue even more complicated by factoring in death.
Many games basically boil things down to this: your enemies want to kill you. They are also espousing political views that your character disagrees with. Both must be killed without debate.
It's a fairly common opinion that politicians who "fear monger" in order to get their political points across are sleazy, cheap bastards who exploit base emotions to preemptively silence dissent. But many video games have their "fear mongering" built into their gameplay mechanics, but are given a free pass when they also try to broadcast political messages.
Courtney @ Apr 5th 2009 1:13AM
@nutman, simple, don't play this game. The great thing about the wide range of games available these days is that developers can create games for a wide variety of audiences and you don't necessarily represent every single audience they may want to target.
I for one welcome games with more complex social commentary. Quite frankly, if games weren't evolving and taking on greater themes, I would have given up on them a long time ago.
@Charlie, have you really played BG&E? You seem very bent on criticizing it in this thread, but I find it hard to believe that you played it most of the way through. The primary mechanic to drive the story forward is Jade's camera, not her weapons. Most of the major missions involve getting evidence of the conspiracy to enslave a planet. The message of that game is that information is more powerful than weapons and that an informed public is one that is dangerous to those in power. These are not political views being pushed, they are foundational truths of our society. To see them explored in a game format is exciting and gives me hope that we can see even more complex themes explored in the future.
Skaz @ Apr 5th 2009 10:04PM
But I didn't WANT Arthas to slaughter the townsfolk!
ill trooper @ Apr 5th 2009 11:48PM
I think a person only notices 'politics in gaming' and 'agendas' when they conflict with the person's political beliefs.
I know TAICHI! @ Apr 4th 2009 1:05PM
(Yawn)
redrum.and.coke @ Apr 4th 2009 1:06PM
As mentioned above, this really was a great game that I wish more people had played. I am surprised and delighted to learn there is a sequel in the works. I'm hoping they release it on PC so I can nab it.
Lionbacker steamID: detfan1957 @ Apr 4th 2009 2:35PM
They have. It's on steam, and gog.com right now.
Lionbacker steamID: detfan1957 @ Apr 4th 2009 2:37PM
Oh. I just reread your comment, and I thought that you meant the original, when you actually meant the sequel.
My apologies
Bowser Rogozhin @ Apr 4th 2009 1:06PM
9/11 also influenced the proliferation of Arab murder simulators we see blighting the console market: America's Army, Full Spectrum Warrior, they were just the start of the flood we see today. Grimy pieces of work, the lot of them.
Let's just hope Ancel doesn't turn the pig into a Le Pen sympathiser. Though, internet darling as the original may have been, the title didn't settle with me. After numerous restarts, spanning many years, I eventually sold the game. So I don't hold much interest in this title, bigotry or no bigotry.
Bowser Rogozhin @ Apr 4th 2009 1:14PM
Though this series does have a history of inflammatory bigotry. Remember those Jamaican Rhinos? So cringe worthy. I'm surprised they didn't rhyming talking about smuggling crack cocaine and killing homosexuals.
Moptimus Slime (Gobot in disguise) @ Apr 4th 2009 1:26PM
"9/11 also influenced the proliferation of Arab murder simulators we see blighting the console market: America's Army"
You forgot to mention Halo, which as you said before is only popular cause of all the xenophobic American's going out to kill dem ragheads before they turn us all into queerosexuals
tmacairjordan87 @ Apr 4th 2009 1:32PM
Don't forget all the cop killin simulators like GTA and that damn black killing game RE 5.
The Dark Wayne @ Apr 4th 2009 1:35PM
nothing in the post hinted that the game would be about bigotry, and I dont remember any from the first game. If anything it will probably be about stuff like the Patriot Act and government crackdowns.
The Dark Wayne @ Apr 4th 2009 1:43PM
tmac makes a good point, what makes games about middle eastern conflicts "murder simulators"? Is it only them? What about as tmac said crime games, or alien games? Don't aliens and cops have feelings too? Where do you draw the line? If you think all of the above are murder simulators why do you play games?
XLM @ Apr 4th 2009 2:15PM
MAMAGO!
Batzarro @ Apr 4th 2009 2:25PM
Arab Murder simulators? I think if there is a war in the middle east, in the same way someone might make a game disagreeing with said war, other's might try and make a game about the wars themselves. Culture are influenced by the events that sorround the people. Or would you rather game makers covered their ears and went LALALALA as one of the most influential events of the newish millenium happens?
But the problem is most folks are fine with killing in a game until it's a group they are part of, or sensitive to. Peta doesn't think anything about killing in games, until it's animals. Resident Evil was allright until Black zombies showed. You are allright with both of these, but lay of the arabs. The guys who where offended by blacks in RE have nothing to say on the Arabs in the game. And Peta doesn't give a fuck about humans. Untli someone shows me they have coherent, cohesive disagreement with virtual killing, I will just have to say they are following their own personal bias towards the killed group.
Charlie_Six @ Apr 4th 2009 6:30PM
Batzarro, surely bias towards certain groups is not, in and of itself, reason to dismiss a person's opinion entirely. If that were true, then no opinion could be worth considering.
Courtney @ Apr 5th 2009 1:02AM
Bowser, show me once real example of anyone having taken great offense at the Jamaican rhinos. Besides having Jamaican accents and being Rhinos, what was offensive about them? They were a hard working family of private business owners who were friendly, helpful and respectful. If you find that offensive, then you seriously have your priorities out of whack.
Bowser Rogozhin @ Apr 5th 2009 4:26AM
"Bowser, show me once real example of anyone having taken great offense at the Jamaican rhinos."
Read my second comment on this post. It was a Cool Runnings redux. Demeaning to all parties involved, regardless of race, gender or any other artificial cultural boundaries we people are fond of throwing up.
They weren't hard working in the slightest. They sat about cracking crude jokes, awaiting their one customer, Jade, each and every day so they could try and make a sexual move on her. Clearly Ancel chose the a Rhino to symbolise the Jamaican: the links between that and the myth of the black 'horn' is all too obvious a sign for the most basically educated person. They were sexual predators, and our poor Jade had to put up with it throughout the duration of the game...or for as long as I could stomach it. I'm disappointed a man of your character would stick up for this furry filth, Courtney, I really am.
And I think Batzarro has forgotten the General Chaos Amendment of 1996.
BoogerA @ Apr 4th 2009 1:45PM
Memo:
He's talking about the first game. The one that everyrube on the internet, up until today, had a huge boner for.
schema @ Apr 4th 2009 2:03PM
Memo: No he isn't.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ancel-thinks-zelda-is-out-of-touch
Secondary sources are bad.
Markez @ Apr 4th 2009 2:25PM
Interesting. Although, I think it's a little silly to say any videogame is 'out of touch', I mean cmon it's not like they're all trying to by insightful NYT or WSJ oped pieces or anything.
Autopsy15 @ Apr 4th 2009 3:31PM
Memo:
Yes he is. 9/11 happened in 2001 and only 2 years later Beyond Good & Evil came out. The article clearly was mistaken.
Courtney @ Apr 5th 2009 12:55AM
That translation is a little rough, but it seems he is saying that these themes heavily influenced the first game, and as this is a direct sequel to that storyline, those themes will continue to influence the second game, which makes perfect sense.
So yes, he is talking about the first game, and the sequel. So both memo-tards are equally wrong and right.
Hace @ Apr 4th 2009 2:07PM
DEAR GOODNESS HOW COULD THE DEVELOPERS BE SO INCONSIDERATE. GET ME FOX NEWS, THIS SHALL NOT STAND.
DaveMcRae @ Apr 4th 2009 3:15PM
Oooh Jade baby, you're so hot, uh-huh, do some martial art moves for me hmmmm yeah
Discotheque @ Apr 4th 2009 3:55PM
Glad to see Ancel is slowly coming out of hiding.
Charlie_Six @ Apr 4th 2009 6:33PM
my comment from the same story over at gamepolitics:
I think this game's oddball mix of messages, style and gameplay really helped to sink the game at the market. The themes of the game are all heavier stuff that most people don't really start thinking about until they're around 17 years of age or even much holder. This guy is talking about the media, politics, 9/11, fear... in a game where the visual style is something you'd see in a Winnie the Pooh cartoon, something that appealed to kids age 5-10..
You have a pig uncle who farts to boost himself up to places. You take pictures of fuzzy warm animals to get money. There's a clumsy, baffoon military officer of some sort. Just a strange mix. Is the game for kids, teens, adults? All of them? Is he trying to send political messages to kids? Is that a good thing? For me the themes of the game seemed out of place for a game that looked and played like BG&E did.
DaveMcRae @ Apr 4th 2009 6:57PM
it's called "discrepancy experience" and actually, bg&e worked pretty well using all of the elements you mentioned.
Charlie_Six @ Apr 4th 2009 7:19PM
Didn't sell particularly well from what I heard though. Seems like the demographic appeal was all over the map, thus resulting in a game that no significant market demographic cared about in high numbers.
Courtney @ Apr 5th 2009 12:51AM
Charlie, I think the sales data for BG&E is a bit more complicated than you are making it out to be. Ubisoft dropped it during the holiday 2003 rush amongst a bunch of other AAA titles, including their own reboot of the Prince of Persia series. Ubisoft chose to dedicate much more of their advertising budget to PoP and other titles during that holiday, thus immediately putting two strikes against a brand new IP. Low advertising plus being dropped into the most competitive time of the year for games is a recipe for failure and no indication of whether or not the games themes and story affected its sales.
As for the content itself, I found it worked incredibly well. My daughter watched and helped me play through it a couple of years ago. She was twelve at the time and attracted to the look, design and hip female lead character. Much of the political, war, media commentary just kind of washed over her. We each connected with it on different levels, but both ended up loving it. The best media has that power and I think Beyond Good and Evil is one of the very few games to pull it off successfully.
And no, I don't have a problem with teaching children to have a healthy distrust of the media, government and military. And this comes from someone who has work experience in two of those three areas.
ill trooper @ Apr 5th 2009 11:52PM
"And no, I don't have a problem with teaching children to have a healthy distrust of the media, government and military."
I like what you're saying. Long live free critical thought!
Sarge @ Apr 6th 2009 3:57PM
Ironic, then, isn't it, that people are turning to the federal government to bail us out of the current economic crisis, when they were the primary cause of our problems in the first place. Healthy distrust, indeed.
samfish @ Apr 4th 2009 11:01PM
Odd. If 9/11 influenced the original, I think I'd remember Dick Cheney blowing up buildings and THE ENTIRE COUNTRY OF ISRAEL shooting the Pentagon with a space laser and calling it a plane being in the game somewhere...
Douche Bigalow @ Apr 5th 2009 2:23AM
The saddest indicator of how thoroughly left-wing brainwashing groupthink has usurped our world is that when someone says "9/11 influenced this" they don't mean "9/11 influenced us to stand strong for Western values and America", they mean they're doing some nonsensical moonbat rant about "CNN, army messages, and 'the climate of fear'". I'm guessing Ancel was on a skiing holiday when those riots happened in his home country.
UserDoesNotExist @ Apr 5th 2009 10:33AM
There is a large group of people (on the Internet, anyway) that have been so totally blinded by Western humanism that they can't see things any other way. They believe that terrorism can simply be reduced to the poor trying to better themselves, and that education would stamp out terrorism. Too bad for them the largest group of incoming terrorists nowadays are mid-class young men from moderate Muslim households, and that most known leaders leaders of terrorist organizations are college graduates. They believe that no President has ever done anything that ran contrary to the Constitution during times of crisis, when in fact, out of all the major wars, the Patriot Act is small stuff. Tell me, did Bush ever imprison the editor of the New York Times indefinitely, like the freer of the slaves Lincoln did to those who wrote negative editorials about the Civil War, or create concentration camps for Middle Eastern people which he then forced every single Middle Easterner to go to, like their beloved FDR did with the Japanese? They have this crazy notion that they can deal rationally with someone that's willing to blow themselves up in service of their god. Despite history showing that negotiations with power-hungry madmen backed up with no real military power only lead to the madmen having more resources when they begin attacking, they still follow this foolish path.
They believe that the reason we haven't had a terrorist attack isn't because of Bush, it's in spite of him. Don't get me wrong, Bush did a lot wrong. He screwed up almost every one of his domestic decisions. No Child Left Behind, not targeting his tax cuts more towards small business owners, this idiotic stimulus package, the list goes on. But it's because of him that we have not had a terrorist attack since 9/11. The Patriot Act and the invasion of Afghanistan/Iraq are one of the few things he did *right*, even though he botched the beginning of the Iraq occupation. Just look at how many countries in the region immediately abandoned their nuclear programs and started allowing inspectors full access. They were scared. They knew that the Bush administration wasn't afraid of using force to back up its talk. That the so-called "paper tiger" was now flesh, blood, and pissed(!).
And waterboarding? Meh. Personally, I think forcing someone to sit in a cold room almost naked and denying them the ability to urinate for extended periods of time is more torturous, but for some reason, this is considered acceptable enough that we let our police do it (and as a matter of fact, I'd be open to having this declared to be torture and not allowed), whereas a relatively short period of oxygen deprivation that leaves absolutely no physical damage is considered barbaric. That it is somehow equivalent to hooking someone's nipples up to a car battery and shocking them, or shove bamboo rods up their toenails, or breaking their arms so many times that they can never raise their arms above their heads. Water boarding isn't even in the same freaking zip code.
ill trooper @ Apr 5th 2009 11:48PM
Naive comments from yous twos, especially that part about 'waterboarding not even in the same zip code' as other forms of torture.
But whatever.
Sarge @ Apr 6th 2009 3:55PM
So, would you rather go through the waterboarding, or the others? Personally, I'd take the waterboarding. That's mental duress, not so much physical. It's sad, what we consider torture these days, when the people we're fighting are lopping heads off.
In any case, there seems to be this misguided opinion that "torture" is the same as the isolated incidents in Abu Ghraib. I would say most terrorists laugh at what we consider "torture".
Anyway, regardless of the inspiration for the first game, it was awesome stuff. And themes like that have been around for a very long time. Ironically, today's events seem even more well-suited to this kind of treatment, what with the "mainstream" news media. You'd have to be _incredibly_ conspiratorial to draw direct parallels between BG&E and the events following 9/11.
And not to disparage Mr. Ancel, but he's from France. They didn't get attacked. We did. They probably would have a bit different viewpoint on things. And they've never been known to be particularly pro-American, anyway.