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Reader Comments (82)

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 9:45AM sindbad said

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Indisputably one of "the best games produced this generation"? Talk about journalistic moderation.

Bioshock was a great game, and one of the better games to come out this generation, but it was hardly "indisputable" that it's one of the best. I enjoyed it -- it nailed mood, vibe, atmosphere incredibly well -- but it was also repetitive, laughably easy (want to kill a big daddy with a wrench? you can!), and had a piss-poor ending. The AI was never surprising (compare System Shock 2), and killing splicers was no different than killing goombas in SMB. The previews showed the "range" of ways you could dispatch enemies (electrocuting water, yay!), but ultimately this was a one-trick pony (electrocuting water, meh).

I have higher hopes for Bioshock 2 - let's see what they do.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 9:52AM Vegnagun said

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Bioshock was one of the highest rated games this generation and it was universally drowned in praise critics. Also, Joystiq doesn't pretend to be objective.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 11:05AM (Unverified) said

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Geist,
The whole mention-an-older-more-obscure-game-while-bashing-a-popular-critically-acclaimed-game thing just smacks of played-out, pretentious, elitist douchebaggery. It's a little tired, just so you know.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 3:53PM Nugent said

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I could understand your complaint if he was comparing System Shock to Gears of War or something, where the two games aren't really similar or related. But in this case, not only is the basic gameplay very similar, System Shock 2 and Bioshock were developed by the same people. Ken Levine has stated in interviews that the overall design and gameplay in Bioshock were inspired by the System Shock games.

If you can't compare System Shock and Bioshock, I don't know what a valid comparison would be.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 4:06PM (Unverified) said

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Except he's not comparing. Geist is just subscribing to the ideology of "if it's too cool, I hate it". He didn't give a rundown of the pros and cons of each game and then provide an insightful analysis. Hell, he probably heard about System Shock for the first time in a Ken Levine interview 3 years ago. Comparing is fine. That's not what happened, though.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 10:26PM Geist said

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You're right, I should've added more.

I'd like to say, first, that the first time I played System Shock 2 was in about 2000-2001, in high school when a friend and I played through the entire campaign co-op because it was awesome.

Now, comparisons. The two games are similar in more ways than just wrenches that the characters wield. First, the oblivious-character-thrown-into-complicated-and-developed situation plot that both contain. You're a security guard who's come out of a coma into a near-abandoned space station vs you're some guy who arrives in a near-abandoned underwater facility. The setting is the same in both, too; a confined, constricted environment filled with various technical difficulties to keep you in a state of questing to search for the next area that you can visit. Additionally, each environment was a simulated 'city', complete with living quarters, shopping, recreation, etc. Both games are first-person shooters with RPG elements, where you collect 'experience' (either with the cyber modules or ADAM), both feature enemies that were once human, now no longer are, warped by a strange process. Both feature stories of a lovely place that eventually went mad. Bioshock did have that delightful plot twist, however, which I enjoyed before it got dull. Both even had security cameras that you had to avoid, lest the alarm get set off and you have to fight off waves of enemies or hack/pay camera terminals to get it to shut off.

I could go on. And that is why I say Bioshock is merely a re-skinned System Shock 2.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2009 11:48PM Boomzilla said

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You just went too far.

First of all: Wrench = iconic
"oblivious-character-thrown-into-complicated-and-developed..." you could use that same description on about 100 games. As a matter of fact, the rest of your comparisons could be said about any number of games. When a dev gets a winning idea they run with it. Bathesda? Of course two games made by the same person will be very similar, especially if they're the same genre. Everybody knew that Bioshock was an fpsrpg when they bought it. No big surprise. Re-skinned? I don't think so.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2009 10:35AM Timerider said

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Me Wantie. Now!

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 12:02PM (Unverified) said

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Bioshock may be one of the worst games of out generation, and the most overrated for sure, but never, never, one of the best. And this one is gonna be worst.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 12:38PM (Unverified) said

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Here, here! Amen.

I hate seeing such a mediocre game being lauded and fawned over. I'm reminded of the time I wasted playing it. Why did people like it, I don't get it.

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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 2:51PM (Unverified) said

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I wasn't joking. No, not at all.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 3:19PM Vidikron said

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Well, many people loved it. And it really wasn't any more repetitive than any other FPS out there... or most games in general. Every game has people that don't like it, but to imply it might be one of the worst games of this generation is nothing less than absurd. Go play games like Bullet Witch or Legendary and it should be quite clear that BioShock isn't even remotely close to being one of the worst, even if you don't think it's one of the best.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 12:19PM (Unverified) said

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Needs more Resident Evil or Metroid type puzzles. You have all these cool powers and the gameplay boils down to using 2-3 powers and weapons to shoot, loot and repeat. I liked using new powers to open up new areas, or having certain powers be really useful against certain types of foes.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 12:25PM (Unverified) said

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I don't understand how you are the 1st big daddy????That doesn't make sense to me if it 10 years later???? Somebody please explain...

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 3:06PM (Unverified) said

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The First Big Daddy was around before all other Big Daddies, therefore he was alive during Bioshock and then another ten years up to this game.

Hope you understand now. =P

*Edit* Damn commenting system.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 1:01PM Figgellum said

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Gah! Recycled environments! BOO!!!!

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 3:21PM Vidikron said

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Well, it's the same place, right? But I would base to much off what we've seen so far. I'm sure they'll have some different areas in the game.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 3:21PM Vidikron said

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*would not base
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 1:31PM Bentzero said

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Cautiously optimistic

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 2:35PM kentuckyfried said

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Can somebody elaborate on what made System Shock 1 and 2 so great, esp. in regards to the AI? I've read this across many threads, but I was not a PC gamer back then. It's kind of like the same thing with how alot of fans really like Fallout 1 and 2 and hate on the third one for jumping into FP perspective and essentially becoming "Oblivion with Guns."


Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 4:04PM Nugent said

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I don't really remember System Shock 1 that well, but from what I remember from System Shock 2 was that the hybrids (System Shock 2 versions of splicers) would come looking for you if they heard you or spotted you. Kind of like in Thief, if you ever played that. It was possible to hide and they'd eventually go away if they couldn't find you. It made for some tense moments, if you were out of ammo and your only choice was to run and hide. I don't remember that ever happening in Bioshock, but then again Jack was pretty much unstoppable, so you didn't really need to hide.

In terms of actual combat, the AI wasn't that great in System Shock, and not any better than Bioshock (which had crappy combat AI). The only exception were the assassin bots, who weren't very smart, but ran around doing flips, making them hard to hit and challenging to fight.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 3:05PM (Unverified) said

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The First Big Daddy was around before all other Big Daddies, therefore he was alive during Bioshock and then another ten years up to this game.

Hope you understand now. =P

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 3:53PM Saria the Cat said

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I think my biggest problem with the similarities between the two games is the seemingly exact same "choice emphasis model"...with two choices! The actual harvest/save paradigm of the first game didn't really enhance my experience in any way because it only contributed to generic game elements (ending, whether you get gifts or more ADAM) and didn't really permeate the atmosphere. Whether you decided to harvest or not did not really change your environment or have any major impact on the actual gameplay. So unless they make those choices matter or actually affect the way the game feels, I will be as uninterested in that part as I was in the first.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 7:10PM (Unverified) said

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Exactly, if you are giving us the same ol good n bad choices, give some gameplay incentive.

Like the Kotor games or Jade Empire. Bioshock is like Mass Effect in this respect, it's all in the game ending. Not exclusive gameplay options.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2009 12:00AM Boomzilla said

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How many options are open when you consider defenseless little kids who horde a valuable substance? They gave you two and thereby two ways to play the game. Considering there was a finite amount of adam in the game those choices had varied effects on the outcome (not just the ending.) Also, some plasmids weren't available to you depending on your choices. I replayed so that I could use the "hypnotize big daddy" the whole game.

There is, apparently, a slight twist this go 'round. You can protect them until they get to the bursting point with adam then harvesting them. It’s apparently even eviler than killing them immediately. Plus, this time, if you don’t kill her then you have to carry her around and protect her from splicers. How’s that for gameplay impact?
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 9:55PM Special Agent Steve said

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Sounds a lot better than I imagined. I really did not think this would be as good as the first, but from what I read, this game has a lot of potential. Looking forward to buying this :D

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 6:17PM (Unverified) said

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Bioshock gets way more praise then it deserves, its a good game, but its not great, I have played way better games then Bioshock... and Bioshock was buggy as hell.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2009 7:36PM (Unverified) said

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those underwater sequences sound fantastic, just like those long boring slogs in Star Wars: The Knights of the Old Republic. There had better be puzzles then...

Posted: Apr 24th 2009 10:45AM Snake Robot Podium said

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Did I miss something? I'm the FIRST big daddy, ten years AFTER the first game? I am honestly confused, does the storyline jump around in time or something?

Posted: Apr 24th 2009 10:48AM Snake Robot Podium said

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O, is it that the first ever big daddy just managed to survive this long? I may have just answered my own question.
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Posted: Apr 26th 2009 2:45AM (Unverified) said

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...have they fixed the horrid mouse acceleration controls that made the game unplayable for a large number of PC users?

I bought the game and was disgusted to find that the controls had been ruined since the demo. I was never able to tone the mouse acceleration down to a usable level even with all of the .ini file edits various people came up with.

If you are not aware of this, please check here, on bioshock's official forums.

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7697

Will not buy unless the mouse issue is fixed. Completely game breaking for me.

Posted: May 9th 2009 12:17AM (Unverified) said

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will a demo come out some time in the future
?

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