General Electric makes breakthrough in microholographic storage
by Griffin McElroy 
{ Apr 27th 2009 at 8:45PM }
General Electric researchers announced today that the company has made a breakthrough in the development of microholographic storage discs for mainstream use. Using G.E.'s current technology, a single holographic disc could ostensibly hold 500 gigabytes of data -- about 100 times the size of a standard DVD -- and still be readable. Better still, these discs should be commercially viable when they're introduced in 2011 or 2012, coming in at around 10 cents per gigabyte (a pittance compared to Blu-ray's initial price of $1 per gigabyte).
Layman's Version
You know those holographic Jurassic Park stickers you have on the spine of your middle school Trapper Keeper? They're putting those on CDs to make them bigger! That is to say, on the inside. They'll be the same size on the outside, and should still fit snugly within your Saved By The Bell CD case.
[Via Engadget]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
SoulBlade @ Apr 27th 2009 8:51PM
i hate format wars... it's too soon!
but kudos to GE... i hope it's slick
Rob @ Apr 27th 2009 9:14PM
Yes, Huzzah for Technology!
Kanjou @ Apr 27th 2009 9:35PM
It's funny how big a deal everyone made of the whole HD-DVD and Blu-ray format war. I wonder what could possibly combat holographic memory.
Troy Powers (PSN: TroyPowers) @ Apr 27th 2009 9:52PM
Nah, I don't see a format war on the horizon. They won't be trying to use these for movies, because even though it's a step up in storage space, unless they're trying to introduce a super-hi def television by then, it'll be pointless for that. I guess if it's feasible, MS will put this in their next console...but do we really need 500 GB game discs? It's cool, but not really enough practical uses for a whole "war" to erupt.
lockheede @ Apr 27th 2009 10:46PM
@Troy
Toshiba is working on having a 4K set out sometime in 2010...
Troy Powers (PSN: TroyPowers) @ Apr 27th 2009 10:48PM
Still, I don't think anybody will be trying to make a move to super-hd any time soon. I'd question whether or not more than 25% of homes have HDTVs. 2011 is way too soon.
fffunfarm06 @ Apr 28th 2009 12:02AM
With internet getting faster and the internet thats going to change with CERNs GRID, and cloud computing, we are going to be downloading pretty much everything so i dont think this disc is going to be useful in time.
BlackDove @ Apr 28th 2009 4:21AM
Actually guise, this is just in time for the Quad HD, which is planned for 2015, Quad HD being the double of Full HD, ie, 2160p
The only issue here now is no longer storage, it's read speed. If it's sufficient, fuck yeah GE.
sam @ Apr 28th 2009 7:19AM
All the 'higher than HD' formats fall into an even smaller niche than current HD; look how slowly HD is taking off, now imagine the same for a system which literally won't offer any improvement whatever unless your TV is about three times the size of most people's walls and you sit right next to it when watching.
(I'm exaggerating - but not much. For a normal-sized TV at normal viewing distance, HD already provides more detail than most people can see.)
So in other words there is no real need for a new optical disc format for consumer video, and if such a format were released anyhow (kind of like they released SACD / DVD Audio when CD was already good enough) I would expect it to have serious trouble selling.
However for data storage it's good to see improvements. Holographic storage has been, famously, utter vapourware for many years, with no chance of commercialisation, so I'm not sure I'm going to believe them straight off when they say this version *can* be commercially released. If it can, though, cool. No doubt there might be other contenders for the next disc format too - unless flash storage really has caught up to the point where you can get 500GB of flash for pennies, which doesn't seem all that likely even in 2011.
Also note: Blu-ray had prototypes in 2000 and consumer release in 2003. Six years later, most computers still don't have it and to most people, it still seems like a pretty neat 'new' format. In other words even if this new format is a success, you might expect not to be using it until 2016 or later - and since it's not made by a game console manufacturer, I wouldn't have much expectation of seeing it in a console before that kind of time either.
ifalldownstairs @ Apr 27th 2009 8:51PM
I actually like the idea of disc media being produced by a company unrelated to any of the console manufacturers. Especially when the disc is so freaking sweet looking.
Mychas @ Apr 27th 2009 9:32PM
Doesn't the disc look the same?
Troy Powers (PSN: TroyPowers) @ Apr 27th 2009 9:53PM
lol...MS is going to like this too. Wouldn't they have to pay Sony somehow if they wanted to put a blu-ray player in their next console?
helghast102 (Valkyria Chronicles and the anime OWN!) @ Apr 28th 2009 3:32AM
@Troy
yeah, for the disc and (i think?) every game sold on blu-ray xD
wouldn't be a smart option by MS
sam @ Apr 28th 2009 7:09AM
@Troy: Yes, MS would in theory have to pay license fees per Xbox 720 player, and per disc produced. Sony is part of the Blu-ray group and will receive part of these license fees.
In practice these license fees would not be paid directly - Microsoft would buy the Blu-ray drive from a manufacturer (I'm guessing not Sony; Lite-on or whoever) who will have paid the license fees to Sony and others. Similarly, the companies that actually produce discs pay the license fees.
Two things about this theoretical situation vs. the current one though:
1) Isn't Sony also part of the DVD group? If so it may already earn license fees on each 360 sold.
2) Microsoft's VC-1 format is part of the Blu-ray spec (even if nobody much uses it any more). I'm not sure this has per-player license fees, but if it does, Sony's paying them.
InFaMoUs1- @ Apr 27th 2009 8:54PM
say what?
dark_inchworm (on Steam!) dark inchworm (on XBL!) @ Apr 27th 2009 9:40PM
that looks like Hayley Williams...
Villack @ Apr 27th 2009 8:54PM
Will the machines that read these holographic discs be cheap as well in 2011/2012?
Wes @ Apr 27th 2009 9:00PM
For PC, the answer is probably yes.
Blu-ray players for the pc within the first year came down to sub $200.00 and by 1.5 years came to around $120.00 and now adays you can pickup a pc based blu-ray drive for $80 dollars on sale.
Compared to a fancy dvdrw at max speed with light scribe and some built in software and your only playing double the cost for a drive the reads discs 5-10x the size.
I'm just excited about this because potentially on pc releases of games a developer could do an edition using say the 'Rage' engine with ultra-hd textures and models. So the models look almost-real life and even if you have a crappy pc, the rage engine automatically scales down the ultra-hd textures down to whatever your pc can handle. When you get a new pc a few years down the line, the game just keeps looking bettttter and better! Until, eventually your 500GB disc is holding back your video card again(but, that would be a long while)
Mitsuo @ Apr 27th 2009 9:15PM
Or maybe it just looks worse and worse the better the graphics are due to the Uncanny Valley. And from what I think, it's going to take some SUPA DUPA graphics to start the climb out of it.
Foetoid @ Apr 27th 2009 9:32PM
Uncanny Valley is only a problem when your depicting real things. In a FPS game like for example Bioshock, it's not real people you're looking at, so i dont think it's a problem. Same with something like Mario Galaxy.
Mitsuo @ Apr 27th 2009 9:41PM
Yes but their still humanoid and is meant to look real. I don't think it's meant for ONLY humans but humanoids or even creatures in general if enough work is put into them.
Troy Powers (PSN: TroyPowers) @ Apr 27th 2009 10:03PM
Uncanny valley? Really? Somebody learned a new term in psych class today. :D
philmcphail @ Apr 28th 2009 9:58AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_disc
"holographic drives are projected to initially cost around US$15,000, and a single disc around US$120–180, although prices are expected to fall steadily.[4] The market for this format is not initially the common consumer, but enterprises with very large storage needs."
I don't think it fall into any PCs that early, not even by 2012.
Mitsuo @ Apr 27th 2009 8:55PM
I just jizzed in my pants.
dark_inchworm (on Steam!) dark inchworm (on XBL!) @ Apr 27th 2009 9:42PM
Did you just eat a grape?
Roto13 @ Apr 27th 2009 10:20PM
I jizz right in my pants every time you're next to me
And when we're holding hands, it's like having sex to me
You say I'm premature, I just call it ecstacy
I wear a rubber at all times, it's a necessity
Chris Are @ Apr 27th 2009 10:42PM
awesome. now i'm going to have that song stuck in my head for the remainder of the night. thanks guys!
Premature ejaculation man @ Apr 27th 2009 11:59PM
Those guys totally stole that song without asking.
Premature ejaculation man @ Apr 28th 2009 12:02AM
Because you totally have to ask me permission to steal something from me...
ugh
ahsayuninew @ Apr 27th 2009 8:56PM
how much are the players gonna be? We should wait to intruduce these into market until we run into storage problems on bluray.
DanB91 @ Apr 27th 2009 8:58PM
So that's $50 a disc? Still ridiculous. But, kudos to GE nonetheless.
WiredKnight @ Apr 27th 2009 9:14PM
Think about how much a 500 gb hard drive costs. Now consider that they're making them in a format that is more compact with fewer moving parts. $50 sounds like a good deal to me. Although I guess that means games published on them are going to be a lot more...
Doug @ Apr 27th 2009 9:32PM
I doubt they cost 50$ to make. Probably more like 20$. So you'll see games increase a lot, but it'll probably be worth it.
Tsk, imagine 90$ a game. Bleh
Blah @ Apr 27th 2009 9:55PM
who says that 500 gigs is the only size they will come in, if they were to make games on it i bet they could use 50gig or less cds since no game would ever use all 500
rohan @ Apr 27th 2009 9:00PM
Holo-graphic porn?! o my.....
No_Jeans @ Apr 27th 2009 9:02PM
Was it just me, or was the Layman's Version more confusing than the Technical Version?
The Dark Wayne @ Apr 27th 2009 9:08PM
yeah it definitely was
Mana37 @ Apr 28th 2009 2:25AM
To a child born in the 80's, that version was a walk down memory lane. LOL.
I'm sure only 1/4th of the readers got it.
The question is: is it backwards compatible!?
vidGuy @ Apr 27th 2009 9:06PM
Still $50 a disc, but within 18 months of release they'll probably be down to $5, only 1¢ per gig.
Vidikron @ Apr 27th 2009 9:09PM
I'll believe when I see it come to market. HVD discs have been talked about for several years now with nothing yet to materialize.
Bubbameister33 @ Apr 27th 2009 9:17PM
My money is on this being in the next Microsoft console.
vidGuy @ Apr 27th 2009 9:24PM
Meh, probably the PS4. It will cost $1200.
Kanjou @ Apr 27th 2009 9:36PM
Don't be so conservative.
Phantom @ Apr 27th 2009 9:38PM
Nah, the 720 will have the Holo discs, since near the end of this gen multiple DVD's will probably be the norm.
On the other hand the PS4 will probably make you a cookie eveytime you level up!
($600 cookie maker FTW!)
jhp @ Apr 28th 2009 12:32AM
Way exciting. I did holographic research for my undergrad thesis, maybe I can get a job with them!
Negativecool @ Apr 27th 2009 9:38PM
As cool as this is, holographic discs have been in the news since the inception of blu ray. Theoretical storage space, back then, seemed to far exceed 500GB's.
Something that concerns me though is bitrate. Didn't blu ray have a higher bitrate than HD DVD? Isn't that a limiting factor among current red laser DVD technology? I'm asking because I really don't know.
I haven't gone blu myself, so it'll be interesting to see what this will do to the market. I can see this easily becoming the go-to storage media, but they have a long difficult road if they want the movie market and Hollywood acceptance...I mean, they're all putting their efforts into blu and now this comes? Whatever, I'll be quiet now.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Apr 27th 2009 10:20PM
Bitrate goes up with per-layer (or for HDDs, per-platter) information density. So this will have good transfer rates. Access times will be no better (and likely worse) than Blu-ray, which itself is worse than DVD.
At $50/disc, this will have zero impact on games. Just look at the original NeXT machine to see what $50 discs does to software distribution, it made shipping software for the NeXT on disc completely non-viable. And for those who mention that perhaps there will be smaller capacity discs, those likely will not be much cheaper. The cost of the manufacturing isn't really per-bit, it's per disc.
The predictions of when this will be commercially viable are likely optimistic. They usually are.
And for those who mentioned above that holographic storage stories have been around since Blu-ray shipped... They've been around a lot longer than that. The first talk of holographic storage started when the original WORM/Magneto Optical drives came along, that was well over a decade ago.
This is very attractive to me, but then again I'm sprung on Blu-ray right now and I still don't have a drive for that either. $100 for a drive ($250 for a writer) is just too much.
I previously figured PS4 would be 8-layer Blu-ray, but now I wonder if this will put a crimp in that. I kind of suspect it won't, because 8-layer Blu-ray drives will be cheap, but honestly the technology will be outmoded within two years of shipping if this becomes real.
Mike @ Apr 27th 2009 10:07PM
Honestly, the "Layman's Version" was more confusing to me than the "Technical" one.
jackal @ Apr 27th 2009 10:18PM
I hate to be Lt. Buzzkill of the bring down brigade, but GE's a little late to the party in regards to an optical format with super dense storage. HSD has a format called holographic versatile disc (or HVD) that had already broken the 250 and 500 GB barriers in the lab (some time ago too, I might add) and it has a theoretical capacity of almsot 4 terabytes. No, that's not a typo.
If memory serves me correctly, you can actually buy an HVD burner today for a cool $15,000 but no one has actually manufacutered the medium as of yet; Maxell and Optware were supposed to have 250 GB HVDs on the market by now, but they apparently delayed those releases because the rest of the HVD forum (which is surprisingly quite large) is still pounding out the fine details when it comes to finalized specifications.
I'm not saying what GE has done isn't impressive and I hope they're successful in their endeavors, but, again, they're not the first company to accomplish the 500 GB/disc milestone.
Geist @ Apr 27th 2009 10:30PM
You know, for all this storage, there's no way anyone's going to use all of it in a game. The only way they would is if there were like hours and hours and hours of picture-perfect cutscenes, because making 500 gbs of gameplay is not cost-effective.