Valve updates Team Fortress 2 for fairness, community responds
by Xav de Matos 
{ May 25th 2009 at 6:00PM } 
In response, Valve has changed the new weapon system with the latest update (Spy & Sniper). In the new system, Team Fortress 2 utilizes Valve's Steam Cloud, automatically rewarding players new weaponry and items previously only attainable through completing achievement related tasks.
According to Valve, the new system is designed to reward gamers based on how long they play Team Fortress 2. Play more, get more. But according to the game's forums -- and multiple emails to Joystiq -- some players are unhappy with the changes.
The issue most players seem to have with the system is the lack of goals. With the original achievement system, players were aware of how close or far they were to receiving new items. Since the new system randomly gives players items, players have next to no control over the system. One TF2 forum thread complained the drops are too generous, but was quickly shot down by the rest of the community who cite the average at about 1 drop every 2-3 hours of play -- some complain of never seeing a drop since the update released.
According to Valve, the system will be refined. "Like everything else we build, we'll be iterating on this system for a while, and have a lot of features planned," Valve's Erik Johnson wrote on the Team Fortress 2 blog. One of the new feature planned is an item trading system, which is why users are seeing duplicates of some random item drops.
One of largest (and most recent) threads on the Team Fortress 2 forum summarizes the issues players have with the new system. According to the five-star rated thread, players now feel as though the original achievement system is meaningless, that the new system is far too random and too frustrating.
"Being forced to helplessly wait for the desired item while a cascade of useless ones haunts them appears tedious and pointless, especially since they could have easily got their items with the previously active system," wrote thread creator, Weirdomancer. Valve has said they plan to add more functionality, including the ability to influence the system so players can work toward a goal.
In our opinion, the first thing that needs to be addressed is the group breaking the system: Idle users. Regardless if they are playing or not, users can log into spectator mode and still gain items, rendering the purpose of the system moot. For now hardcore fans wish the system to be brought back to the way it was, but with refinement we anticipate players will come to accept the system and do what's most important, play the game they bought.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
cknblade @ May 25th 2009 6:08PM
The whole system of unlocking items for gameplay in a game built on balance is stupid. I've been saying for a while now give people the items off the bat; make achievements for fun/bragging rights. That solves all the problems; newbies get the same stuff as regulars, achievements can be for fun, not a necessity to be able to play the game as fully intended, and unlock servers will be done with.
milan @ May 25th 2009 6:31PM
I like to compare games to chess. What if you could just uplock the ability to change a knight into a bishop? Yeah, the game is now unbalanced.
NoughtSoClever @ May 25th 2009 6:38PM
@ milan
So it's balanced when the best of the best have extra items and weapons but it's unbalanced when noobs get something randomly?
McDoobie @ May 25th 2009 6:48PM
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment.
If they should implement unlockables, let them be funny outfits or something else game related that can be displayed to let others know your accomplishments. For example, Gears of War 1 had an unlockable icon once you reached "Seriously...".
megapenguinx @ May 25th 2009 7:45PM
@Milan however in chess you can turn your pawns into queens or other higher ranked pieces for getting across the board so your argument is invalid. But I do agree, unlocking items in a multiplayer game seems moot and unbalanced just from the concept of it.
offday @ May 25th 2009 7:55PM
Most of the achievements were achievements that you would get for just playing the game long enough. I thought it was fun working towards to achievements. Randomly just getting new weapons is weird, especially when you get repeats. Oh well, I love the game, and I'll still be playing either way.
Jrod @ May 25th 2009 8:53PM
What's the point in replying when you said all that could be?
SyChO @ May 25th 2009 9:13PM
Original Poster: I totally agree with you! The unlocking crap is one of the reason I got pissed at TF2 and stopped playing. I didn't want to heal 1000000 people with whatever in order to get a special needle.
I'm very happy with the changes!
Ruqus @ May 26th 2009 10:32PM
Guys I know some of you are peeved at the system... But please for the love of god stop complaining about the drop system in which Valve already knows is broken and has even stated so.
The spectator mode was an unintentional side effect of the new implemented patch, as well as the randomness of some of the drops acquired. They have already stated that this was unintentional and was not the meaning behind the update.
Now if you gonna complain about how badly the patch was released/implemented, then I understand...
Otherwise, I LOVE Valve and just like some of my other favorite developers, I will stand behind them and their product!
cknblade @ May 27th 2009 7:26PM
Ruqus, I think you missed the point of my post; I'm not arguing about how the change was implemented, I'm arguing about the core of the change. In a competitive multiplayer fps, elements that give one player a possible advantage over another (while the items are generally balanced, something valve deserves some credit for, if your playstyle caters to one unlockable or another, that unlockable is an advantage) should be available to all players, and if it has to be unlocked, it should on no circumstances be UP TO CHANCE. I'm shocked that valve would implement such a fundamentally flawed system, as I agree that valve is one of, if not the best game companies out there right now, and their constant support of now 2+ year old games is a standard that the rest of the industry should look up to.
Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ May 25th 2009 6:10PM
Well we will see how much easier it is....I didnt play enough before to unlock the other updates but I was planning on it....
BananaBoat @ May 25th 2009 6:21PM
Almost no one got the achievements the "proper" way. There are achievement servers that are designed specifically for grinding. After about a month of playing, I only had one achievement unlocked (the flaregun for the pyro) and ultimately I got sick of it.
Their system of achievements was clearly broken in my opinion, and I'm glad they fixed it.
wicko @ May 25th 2009 8:39PM
Achievements aren't *that* hard to get, ive got 14 pyro achievements so far after playing as one for about 5 hours. I didn't really try to get any, they just occured, and I'm not particularly good at the game. I'm usually just barely above a 1.0 ratio, sometimes I get a lucky streak and get a 2.0 ratio but even that wasn't too hard as a pyro.
I just really hate the system they've implemented now, they should have just used the points you get in each round to accumulate, and then be able to spend those on the weapon you want. So the best way to unlock stuff is just to play the game, just like every other game that implemented that. Technically you can grind that too, but its not difficult enough that you'd really need to. The hardcore would just play.
BananaBoat @ May 26th 2009 1:00AM
I said achievements, but I meant unlockables. I had tons of achievements, spread out over all of the classes, but only enough achievements for the very first pyro unlockable. Pre-update, the game punished you for not playing as the same class over and over. Now it sounds like they've corrected that mistake.
For the record, I love TF2. I just didn't love getting destroyed by people with weapons I'd never have time to unlock in a million years. The COD4 model needs to be implemented across the board, where you unlock things as you go, without huge gulfs between unlocking things. That's my opinion anyway.
THE WICKER MAN (BWF) (GT: Dalek Prime) @ May 25th 2009 6:11PM
^ I know you've been saying that for a long time! You are always ahead of the curve! :) Achievements in online mp are a bad idea. They skew the game with people trying to unlock rather then play the game. It is that simple.
The Dark Wayne @ May 25th 2009 7:02PM
I liked the way Brothers in Arms HH did MP achevs, they were worth no points. If you were good and really played the game you got them and got bragging rights, but since they were worth no points or weapons or whatever, you didnt any boosters fucking shit up
Jrinswand @ May 25th 2009 6:13PM
Oh, where do I start with this?
I have a love/hate relationship with the new method of distributing unlocks (though I'm not sure they can even be called "unlocks" anymore). At the same time that I love the new system for the way it gives me items without me having to grind for them, it bothers me because I never know when I'm going to get an item or what item I'm going to get.
You see, I have always refused to join achievement servers or to actively grind for achievements. I much prefer to simply play the game and unlock whatever I happen to unlock. Under the old system, as Joystiq pointed out, I could nevertheless see how far along I was on the path of unlocking a particular weapon. Add to this the fact that I've inexplicably been playing much better than ever before since the latest patch hit and I've been just a little peeved.
The new system has also started a plague upon TF2 in that tons of people are spectating, raising the likelihood that a given match will be unplayable. Just last night I was playing a match which had nine spectators. NINE. That is ridiculous.
TL;DR: You have to take the good with the bad and hope that Valve knows what they're doing. They've rarely let us down before... unless you happen to be a whiny bitch who bitches about everything.
Lurker28 @ May 26th 2009 1:43AM
Agreed.
The new system has a few kinks to work out. However, I always got tired of seeing achievement servers as well as severs with a half the team being whatever class was updated.
I too never went to achievement servers. I can tell you, I play often and in order to get some of the last weapons you have to play a lot. Some of the situations you need to be in to get these achievements are just as random as the method they implemented.
Lastly, I'm quite irritated that you can receive two of same items that you already have. I know this is for future trading purposes, but why on either allow the server to give you duplicate items when you can't trade those items right now.
All in all, I like the system but it seriously needs to be tweaked quite a bit.
bamb0o-stick @ May 26th 2009 6:56AM
If what you're implying is that people get weapon drops even by spectating, then this system is more flawed than the previous one in my opinion. This whole "weapon-drop" system is just same strange way of making this game more RPG-ish, which is not why I play TF2 for. The option to have hats and accessories, etc reminds me a lot of the new Battlefield Heroes game. I hope Valve isn't trying to borrow ideas from that game b/c TF2 is perfect imho.
Timerider @ May 26th 2009 12:54PM
There's about 50 idle servers now.
I have 5 axtinguishers and 3 sandmans from this update. It should know that I have it already and give me something new.
Doomheit @ May 25th 2009 6:13PM
The new system works a lot better imho. The achievement servers people used to grind weren't a problem with me, but some of the achievements ruined the strategy when people tried them in an actual game.
Why would a medic EVER ubercharge a scout? For the achievement of course.
Why have the last four updates been accompanied by a week of unplayabilty? Everyone playing one class to get the achievements.
The new system at least doesn't reward game-breaking behavior.
B @ May 25th 2009 6:23PM
Soo.... you got rid of achievement based weapons because people were going on achievement servers for a couple days to get everything... and in place of that you put in a system where it rewards players who play for long periods of time with roll of the dice CHANCE at getting new items?
Essentially forcing people (with lives) to use achievement_idle servers for days to have any chance at all of getting new content.
Oh, and not to mention that the random item is out of all the class items. I one item I got in the past 2 days was a spy item. I NEVER play Spy.
CaramelZappa @ May 25th 2009 6:25PM
I'm glad that achievements are no longer linked to new items. Even though the update was just released I can now join a server and just have fun playing without EVERYONE being a sniper or scout.
I even like the random weapons dropping, it means you just have to go on playing the game as usual.
But what I HATE about the new system is how you can get multiples of items. I have 2 dead ringers and 3 natashas. I've picked up item after item of things that I already got through achievements. Why on earth would I need another one? To trade with people? Who's going to trade a natasha for an ambassador? Anyone really eager to get the new weapons already has the old ones.
evenkots @ May 26th 2009 11:30AM
You must not be playing on the same servers as me. Even though the weapon unlocks aren't tied to specific achievements, every server I have played on has had 5 snipers and 5 spies on each team.
People still love getting achievements, even if they aren't tied to anything. Just imagine if TF2 was a Games For Windows game...ugh.
Roger @ May 25th 2009 6:26PM
If they're using it randomly then why not limit drops to the specific class you like playing on.
For instance, the longer you clock in with sniper, you start getting his drops. Longer you play with pyro, you get her's. Same goes for the other classes. It ensures that players may suck at their class but they'll still unlock the stuff after hours and hours of ass whoopings.
CaramelZappa @ May 25th 2009 6:52PM
Because then EVERYONE would be playing as a sniper and spy right now, and the game would be broken until the majority of players had the new items.
The Dark Wayne @ May 25th 2009 7:20PM
pyro is a lady?
Jrinswand @ May 25th 2009 7:30PM
There is a theory that the Pyro is a woman (made even more credible by Valve's recent hint in the latest update), though the theory doesn't actually hold up that well because, as my girlfriend pointed out, the Pyro doesn't have any boobs.
deanb @ May 25th 2009 7:47PM
@Jrinswand
I know gaming does paint the impression of a woman bieng like this - http://www.bionicjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/ivy.jpg
but you can be a woman and have no boobs
http://www.justsaytops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/keira-knightley-picture-2.jpg
Jrinswand @ May 25th 2009 7:53PM
Saying that you can be a woman and not have boobs and then posting a picture of Keira Knightley didn't do much to support your initial claim.
Or in other words: Keira Knightley is barely alive, much less a woman.
offday @ May 25th 2009 7:58PM
The muffled, "medic" I heard when I call for help doesn't sound like a girl's voice.
Sly (The Cake in fact, is NOT a lie) [PSN SniperChameleon] @ May 25th 2009 9:02PM
yeah, i know a lot of girls that barely have boobs. in a suit like the pyro's, her boobs might be even bigger than their's.
bamb0o-stick @ May 26th 2009 7:15AM
Regarding the Pyro being a woman - seriously I really hate going back on this subject - there are three possible outcomes Valve can give us:
- Pyro turns out to be a dude and Valve plays us all for fools.
- Pyro DOES turn out to be a woman, which wouldn't make any logical sense, unless this turns out to be a most unattractively-figured female game character ever.
- Or my totally outrageous guess: Pyro turns out to be a flamboyant flaming homosexual, which would explain the handbag in his locker and why he likes to sneak up on ppl from behind (I have gay friends, so don't go accusing me of being homophobic).
Gibbeynater @ May 25th 2009 6:28PM
What you seemed to miss in the article is how bugged the system is right now. Reports are coming in that the free-weekenders are getting all the best stuff after only a few minutes of play, while the long time players only get duplicated items, usually once or twice every 4 hours.
Robert Maynard @ May 25th 2009 7:08PM
That sounds more like a feature - a deliberately programmed hook to snare the new players with cool gadgets. :P
It's likely there's a bunch of factors besides session play time - number of achievements attained, average achievement-getting rate, total play time, play time as broken down by class, that sort of thing.
I would have preferred a combined system - achievements, random drops, maybe even picking it up off the ground when you kill enemies that have them (perhaps only possible if you are the same class).
Deuce @ May 26th 2009 10:43AM
What if we just accuse you of being gay? Is that cool? ;)
Young_Nastyman @ May 25th 2009 6:34PM
They should just forget about the random drops and tie the unlocks to the class, that way people get what they want for the class they play and spectator don't benefit at all
shredhead @ May 25th 2009 6:38PM
I much prefer the new system to the old one. I wish they included the trade system with the update though.
MowDownJoe @ May 25th 2009 6:54PM
They should just use both systems... really, since the average time to get a drop is 2-3 HOURS, that's means a casual player won't get a drop for a while, and when they do, it probably won't be the one they want. At least the casual player, with the old system, could slowly work on his achievements over a period of days or weeks.
Otis @ May 25th 2009 7:09PM
What sort of idiot decided it was a good idea to have to unlock weapons in a competitive FPS?
Why are games doing this? This is not proper way to reward players.
There should only be superficial unlocks, like ranks, icons, clothes, etc.
Not frigging weapons.
Jrinswand @ May 25th 2009 7:15PM
As long as the player doesn't have to pay extra for unlocks, such as was the case with Battlefield: Bad Company, I don't see the problem with it. Many of the new weapons in TF2 drastically change the way a particular class plays. The Huntsman, for example, completely changes the way a Sniper will approach any given situation. It is much more of an offensive weapon than the Sniper Rifle, which has much greater defensive capabilities.
Otis @ May 25th 2009 7:20PM
Yeah, and everyone should get it. Right away. Not certain people who "earn" it, nor people who are willing to invest a lot of time to luckily be able to get it.
This isn't an MMO.
The Dark Wayne @ May 25th 2009 7:26PM
with bad company they werent much for than skin changes, at least besides the sniper rifles
Jrinswand @ May 25th 2009 7:26PM
Haha! TF2 often reminds me of World of Warcraft, but that is a discussion for another day...
You may be right when you say that everybody should get the weapons immediately. I do know that unlocking things is a lot of fun though. Maybe it should be as somebody above said and unlocks could be exclusive to things like hats or something.
offday @ May 25th 2009 7:59PM
I hope they do ranks later on. I want something that shows I've played the game a long time. It use to be my pyro weapons, which I earned in regular servers, but now those don't really mean anything.
James @ May 25th 2009 7:27PM
Thank god, I always felt like I had a massive disadvantage because I've never really grinded at getting them.
There are certain level of unlockables I don't mind CoD4 and Killzone 2 do it pretty much perfectly, keep the majority of things reachable.
Levi @ May 25th 2009 7:34PM
I just bought TF2 last night. Too many of my friends bought it recently to ignore the game any longer. I've always preferred CS over TF, but it got boring, as everyone I knew hated CS.
I haven't played it beyond a free weekend months ago, so I dunno anything about unlocks. Coming into it fresh, I'll see how I likethe new system without having an old system to compare it to.
I do have to say that unlocks in mp mask the actual fun though. After playing KZ2 until I got to general and not having picked I up since the day I hit that rank, Ivan say that unlocks are just a false sense of enjoyment, to me at least.
ThatPCgameryouhate @ May 25th 2009 8:56PM
I've been idling for over 16 hours (I just do it when I sleep) and I've only unlocked 2 new weapons. All the other ones, I've already earned. Really upset, considering I've legitimately earned over 30 achievements this time, because they're easy. Valve made the system worse, when Medic update was released, it took hours to finally get the fabled Uber-Saw- which was fair. So what if we grind? Most of the achievement's are too hard to get legitimately (except for the Sniper/Spy ones, maybe it's because I like those classes lol).
Blunt Trauma: Assist in punching out 4 enemies with a single uber-charge on a heavy. WTF? Punching 4 enemies on a 10 second uber. They'd have to be willing, AND lined up to do that.
Also, the taunt ones. They sound easy, but I've tried, and their pretty hard.
Just make the achievements realistic ones, and more people will do them.
Brian B @ May 25th 2009 11:31PM
People are earning unlockables by by going AFK and sitting in spawn all day and overnight while they do something else. So the game rewards you for not actually playing it, and the people on your team who ACTUALLY ARE PLAYING are at a disadvantage now. Amazing idea.
offday @ May 25th 2009 8:00PM
That is stupid, but at the same time those servers are just as stupid for not automatically kicking people who are afk.