Interview: David Cage of Quantic Dream and Heavy Rain

We recently had our precipitation-sodden paws all over Heavy Rain: The Origami Killer, and then chatted with David Cage, a man who wears plenty of hats at developer Quantic Dream. In addition to founding the studio, he's also the head game developer, writer, co-CEO, director, and chief bottle washer. So, who better to walk us through the trippy thriller that goes where Indigo Prophecy feared to tread?
Read on to find out some new tidbits about the game, how Fight Club inspired the interface system and why his favorite ending to the game is when all four characters die. Plus why, like Guillermo del Toro, he believes that the interactive entertainment industry is long overdue for a Citizen Kane (or in Cage's case, a Slumdog Millionaire) of games.
Read on to find out some new tidbits about the game, how Fight Club inspired the interface system and why his favorite ending to the game is when all four characters die. Plus why, like Guillermo del Toro, he believes that the interactive entertainment industry is long overdue for a Citizen Kane (or in Cage's case, a Slumdog Millionaire) of games.
Gallery: Heavy Rain: The Origami Killer
Let's jump right in and start hammering you with questions. We have seen a lot of this new character, Jayden. He has specific tie-ins with gadgetry, with the Augmented Reality interface and so on. Will the other characters have similar gadgets or will they each have their own focus?
Each one has their own focus. I mean it is not like everyone has a gadget. Again, what you see with Jayden is not the template. There will be four other characters like this. Each one is very different. People will be very surprised by who they are.
They will each have their own strength or what they are known for? Their gameplay will be intrinsically different from the previous or the next person?
There is no real archetype in like those sexy games were you have the sexy girl, the strong guy and the fast guy. It is not that way. Each one is just a different character with a different background, different personality. They can do what makes sense given who it is.
Although having said that, we see Madison in her underwear in the teaser. Her ability is not just to appear in her underwear?
No, you will be surprised.
So what was the inspiration behind the game? It sort of feels a bit like the X-Files. You have the CSI tie-in with the evidence that Jayden can detect.
There is no supernatural element to the game. It is really grounded in reality. There are no aliens, no zombies, nothing special. There is just real people in real life in real situations.
So the inspiration really comes pretty much from ... it is always difficult to say really where it comes from. But what I know is Heavy Rain is probably the most personal thing I have done so far, which is maybe not apparent from the scene you have seen this morning.
But the real topic of Heavy Rain is in the tagline, "How far are you prepared to go to save someone you love?" That is really the real subject and is something that is really personal. And I think that will talk to players as individuals and will push them to ask questions.
When you were loading the demo it was at like Act 38, is there going to be a really high number of acts in the game? You said that was about midway through, right?
Yes.
And that still ties into the 8-10 hours it may take an average player?
The scenes are really short to be honest with you. They are really short. We are trying to stay away from a really slow and boring experience.
We were wondering about the moment we saw where Mad Jack and Jayden were fighting. Will that be the same each time if you play that level? Will they fight or scramble around the same way, the scripted moments like that where you are following the instructions? You know, dodge, jump left, etc?
The controllers are scripted because they relate to the move that is made. We really want to have a real connection between what you do on the controller and what is happening on the screen. But at the same time, the result depends on what you do and you have different branches that you can go into.
It's pretty bold to have a character with a drug addiction in the game. Is there going to be some sort of ultimate payoff with his drug struggle or will there be an anti-drug message, or do you battle it throughout the game?
Yes, you need to battle with it and it will give you some very strange scenes because there is some kind of very strange interaction between the ARI and the drug.
Is that a drug that you can take at any point in the game or is it just keyed in specific moments? Like where we saw he was confronting Mad Jack and he started having the symptoms. His nose was bleeding ...
No. It is triggered at certain moments.
Okay, so you can't just take the drug. How does he actually administer it? Is it an injection?
Actually, it is through the nose. It's in a tube.
Ah, hence the nose bleeds.
Right. Obviously.
You mentioned that his drug use, there is an element of hiding it from people he knows or his co-workers or something like that. Is it possible to get caught using it and have a different ramification on the main story?
Your actions have consequences. I don't want to say too much, but ...
So, if a character dies, do you lose that character and the game continues on and you just don't get that one character's perspective or those two characters' perspectives? I am guessing that would affect the overall length of the game. Does it?
Yeah. In fact, you cannot die in the first one fourth or so of the game. It wouldn't make sense if in the first scene Jayden dies. I mean what would happen? But what we really do is we build empathy for these characters. We want to give you the feeling that you really care for them. This is really the feeling that we tried to create. So when you really care for his life, when he dies it is going to be a shock for you. So yeah, this is really what we tried to create.
Will the story continue if all four of them are killed?
That will be the conclusion of the story. It won't be a game over like you are starting and you know what happens. It will be the conclusion of the story.
Like some level of closure? You will see something.
Yeah, definitely. And to be honest that is my favorite ending.
A lot of developers are shying away from Sixaxis controls, and are not including them in the game. You guys definitely seem like you are going to be including them. Was that a specific choice or is that something that is still fluid right now and might change when the final game is done?
Well, we are still in the process of polishing the game so this is something that might be slightly adjusted based on the kind of feedback we receive. Personally I like it. I mean I wouldn't use it every single second. You know, we wouldn't want you playing like this all the time.
But as we are trying to create a sense of identification between you and your character, we do that with the system when you are controlling interactions on-screen. You really unfold the move and you really control that with the right stick. When you need to kick or punch something, having to do this (shakes hands) with the controls makes a lot of sense.
I guess it really depends on the type of game you are doing and where it fits in the general gameplay. You don't want to agitate your controller all the time.
Did you guys receive feedback from the last demo of the interface that caused you to change it?
Absolutely not.
It was just something you guys did?
Yeah. I was really happy with the demo. All the people who saw the demo were really impressed. In Leipzig, we presented it to 300 journalists in two days, and we were loaded at every single session. We said, "Well this is the first time we had seen that. That people are liking it so much and responding to it."
So the feedback was fantastic. And what people saw on stage was a 40- or 45-minute demo playing. It was real-time 3D, second to second. I was always a little bit frustrated with the interface because I thought it was a little bit old fashioned. This idea of having a 3D environment with glass on the top with symbols, and when you want to know how to interact with it you need to look at the symbols, look at what you need to do. "OK. I need to do this in order to interact with that."
It was silly in a way. So I wanted to find a solution. It is funny because you were talking about inspiration, to be honest with you, it came from Fight Club. There is this scene in Fight Club with the IKEA furniture and stuff, and everyone was so amazed when they saw that movie and said, "Wow, that is so cool!"
We wanted to find a solution. I thought again about Fight Club and I thought that this could be the solution. We wanted to find something that would be clear but that would not interfere with the environment. So that was difficult. We made many tests, but we are quite happy with the results.
"There will be four other characters like this. Each one is very different. People will be very surprised by who they are." |
They will each have their own strength or what they are known for? Their gameplay will be intrinsically different from the previous or the next person?
There is no real archetype in like those sexy games were you have the sexy girl, the strong guy and the fast guy. It is not that way. Each one is just a different character with a different background, different personality. They can do what makes sense given who it is.
Although having said that, we see Madison in her underwear in the teaser. Her ability is not just to appear in her underwear?
No, you will be surprised.
So what was the inspiration behind the game? It sort of feels a bit like the X-Files. You have the CSI tie-in with the evidence that Jayden can detect.
There is no supernatural element to the game. It is really grounded in reality. There are no aliens, no zombies, nothing special. There is just real people in real life in real situations.
So the inspiration really comes pretty much from ... it is always difficult to say really where it comes from. But what I know is Heavy Rain is probably the most personal thing I have done so far, which is maybe not apparent from the scene you have seen this morning.
But the real topic of Heavy Rain is in the tagline, "How far are you prepared to go to save someone you love?" That is really the real subject and is something that is really personal. And I think that will talk to players as individuals and will push them to ask questions.
When you were loading the demo it was at like Act 38, is there going to be a really high number of acts in the game? You said that was about midway through, right?
Yes.
And that still ties into the 8-10 hours it may take an average player?
"We are trying to stay away from a really slow and boring experience." |
We were wondering about the moment we saw where Mad Jack and Jayden were fighting. Will that be the same each time if you play that level? Will they fight or scramble around the same way, the scripted moments like that where you are following the instructions? You know, dodge, jump left, etc?
The controllers are scripted because they relate to the move that is made. We really want to have a real connection between what you do on the controller and what is happening on the screen. But at the same time, the result depends on what you do and you have different branches that you can go into.
It's pretty bold to have a character with a drug addiction in the game. Is there going to be some sort of ultimate payoff with his drug struggle or will there be an anti-drug message, or do you battle it throughout the game?
Yes, you need to battle with it and it will give you some very strange scenes because there is some kind of very strange interaction between the ARI and the drug.
Is that a drug that you can take at any point in the game or is it just keyed in specific moments? Like where we saw he was confronting Mad Jack and he started having the symptoms. His nose was bleeding ...
No. It is triggered at certain moments.
Okay, so you can't just take the drug. How does he actually administer it? Is it an injection?
Actually, it is through the nose. It's in a tube.
Ah, hence the nose bleeds.
Right. Obviously.
You mentioned that his drug use, there is an element of hiding it from people he knows or his co-workers or something like that. Is it possible to get caught using it and have a different ramification on the main story?
Your actions have consequences. I don't want to say too much, but ...
So, if a character dies, do you lose that character and the game continues on and you just don't get that one character's perspective or those two characters' perspectives? I am guessing that would affect the overall length of the game. Does it?
"You cannot die in the first one fourth or so of the game." |
Will the story continue if all four of them are killed?
That will be the conclusion of the story. It won't be a game over like you are starting and you know what happens. It will be the conclusion of the story.
Like some level of closure? You will see something.
Yeah, definitely. And to be honest that is my favorite ending.
A lot of developers are shying away from Sixaxis controls, and are not including them in the game. You guys definitely seem like you are going to be including them. Was that a specific choice or is that something that is still fluid right now and might change when the final game is done?
Well, we are still in the process of polishing the game so this is something that might be slightly adjusted based on the kind of feedback we receive. Personally I like it. I mean I wouldn't use it every single second. You know, we wouldn't want you playing like this all the time.
But as we are trying to create a sense of identification between you and your character, we do that with the system when you are controlling interactions on-screen. You really unfold the move and you really control that with the right stick. When you need to kick or punch something, having to do this (shakes hands) with the controls makes a lot of sense.
I guess it really depends on the type of game you are doing and where it fits in the general gameplay. You don't want to agitate your controller all the time.
Did you guys receive feedback from the last demo of the interface that caused you to change it?
Absolutely not.
It was just something you guys did?
Yeah. I was really happy with the demo. All the people who saw the demo were really impressed. In Leipzig, we presented it to 300 journalists in two days, and we were loaded at every single session. We said, "Well this is the first time we had seen that. That people are liking it so much and responding to it."
"I was always a little bit frustrated with the interface because I thought it was a little bit old fashioned." |
It was silly in a way. So I wanted to find a solution. It is funny because you were talking about inspiration, to be honest with you, it came from Fight Club. There is this scene in Fight Club with the IKEA furniture and stuff, and everyone was so amazed when they saw that movie and said, "Wow, that is so cool!"
We wanted to find a solution. I thought again about Fight Club and I thought that this could be the solution. We wanted to find something that would be clear but that would not interfere with the environment. So that was difficult. We made many tests, but we are quite happy with the results.













Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
xtremeholymuffin @ May 27th 2009 4:52PM
(insert meaningful comment here)
xtremeholymuffin @ May 27th 2009 4:52PM
SECOND!
xtremeholymuffin @ May 27th 2009 5:09PM
And here I thought I found a loophole.
Anyway, yeah, it's certainly a relief to know that there's no supernatural element to it, considering that's what ruined Indigo Prophecy's second half. I'm finally considering a PS3 because of that new Team ICO game, so maybe I'll have a chance to pick this up.
skyzbig @ May 27th 2009 5:02PM
I'm so looking forward to this.
I like the idea of not having to worry about saving.
jnyjb @ May 27th 2009 5:04PM
Great interview, and deeper than I expected.
It would be a shame if this game turned out to be a dissapointment.
ArchiGamer @ May 27th 2009 5:07PM
This is why I love Quantic and Heavy Rain, the story, the level of dedication, art over technology, more Realism in games, etc.; this is a game that I honestly hope to be a stepping stone to games being more than childish designs, plots, and depth. This IS a Mature game, one few around, and one that I pray to excel in, not in sales or franchise popularity, but in what games for more adult players can be.
This will change our perception on what video games are, I honestly hope so.
Alex @ May 28th 2009 8:55AM
Exactly. I am really interested in seeing how this game turns out, and I'm hoping that it will redefine the way games are made, and the stories told, and I'm definitely hoping for more games with gripping, emotional story lines. Gears 2 tried, but still fell short by not having any real emotion before or after 'that bit'. MGS4 also got close, but still wasn't really that deep in terms of characters.
£289 is still quite expensive for a PS3, though... I might start saving now.
Saria the Cat @ May 27th 2009 5:07PM
Wait, is this seriously called "The Origami Killer?" People are killed via papercuts?!
ArchiGamer @ May 27th 2009 5:08PM
They are being killed by pieces of art, I guess.
CH3BURASHKA @ May 27th 2009 5:09PM
Saria, you have no imagination. The Origami Killer is probably a guy that leaves origami at the murder sites. Duh.
xtremeholymuffin @ May 27th 2009 5:10PM
he makes origami out of your face
xtremeholymuffin @ May 27th 2009 5:10PM
or what that guy said
Kevin Kelly @ May 27th 2009 5:15PM
Or it's possible she was making a JOKE. Ori-ma-gawd.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 27th 2009 5:15PM
Yup, I read he leaves a paper origami bird at each crime scene
ArchiGamer @ May 27th 2009 5:16PM
Or is it possible that we where TOO. ;)
xtremeholymuffin @ May 27th 2009 5:39PM
If they get James Edward Olmos to play the origami killer, I'll buy a PS3 for this game.
Saria the Cat @ May 27th 2009 7:42PM
Now I'm severely disappointed. You know how painful paper-cuts are?!
rruss79 @ May 27th 2009 5:07PM
Hmmm, what happens if you do not want that character to die. If you screw up and have to start all over again because you wanted to see a particular character ending, how does the game handle that. If it means I have to restart at the beginning, I can see this game getting polar reviews.
CH3BURASHKA @ May 27th 2009 5:08PM
Trico and this would be enough to make me buy a PS3.
8frames @ May 27th 2009 5:18PM
As a huge fan of Indigo Prophecy and recent PS3 owner, I was looking forward to a more adult skewed game. I feel slightly disappointed in it's first real showing. The length seems a little on the short side and the graphics seem off from the original tech demo. I thought graphically, this would've been a PS3 showcase piece. I don't get the same feeling as i do when i see uncharted 2, which makes me say "no way that can't be done on the 360 or PC." Wait and see though...
Kenny Powers Fastball (PSN johnnynumber5) @ May 27th 2009 5:25PM
The thing is (like he said in the interview) the game isn't abou the length or the difficulty. It's about telling an emotional and engaging story. I don't really care about the length because the branching will allow one to play the game 5 times and get 5 different outcomes and scenarios depending on which path you go down.
As far as the OMGBBQWTF!!!!111 it can't be done on the 360 ... who cares? We really have to see it in motion anyway but the thing is it's only on the PS3 so it can't be done on any other console. From the interview they are focusing on graphical fidelity and expressing life like emotion and movement. It's not just about the resolution or the polygon count for this one.
Uncharted 2 looks bad ass as well but it's a completely different type of game. The two can't really be compared.
ArchiGamer @ May 27th 2009 5:31PM
Fanboyish Remark: It can't be done on the 360 do to the audience it pulls...
Anyway, the game revolves more on the depth of story and interactions of the characters more so than the graphical power of the game. Its more art over technology mindset that is somewhat noticeable from the interview.
Wes @ May 27th 2009 6:39PM
Hahaha, what an idiot you are 8frame. No way that can be done on a pc? Mid-lvl High-end pcs are vastly more powerful than the xbox 360 or ps3. Vastly. Don't even get me started on how much more powerful a pc is if you remove budget constraints. There's no such thing as 'can't be done on a pc' as pc is always cutting edge. PC even has wii mote capabilities, ps3 controller hookups via bluetooth, xbox 360 controller support so you can't even say 'well, it can't do controls as well as a console!'.
Jerry J @ May 27th 2009 5:18PM
At the very least, I hope they bring the taxidermist demo to the PSN.
Kenny Powers Fastball (PSN johnnynumber5) @ May 27th 2009 5:20PM
I said before that the only two games this generation that have made me think about the world in a different way were MGS 4 & Bioshock. This is the next game that is going to up the ante in that regard and will hopefully change the way the medium is viewed. There needs to be a place in console gaming for these type of experiences. Hopefully the mechanics of the gameplay are as fluid as he is saying because I have the feeling the story is going to be very powerful.
rruss79 @ May 27th 2009 5:22PM
Personally I do not see why this game will change anyone's perception on video games. I have not seen anything yet that redefines anything. The game might be nice but the QTE heavy gameplay will be something that polarize a lot of people.
Right now, no one really knows anything about the story, weather it's good, bad or stupid. The plot can be great but then like everything else when it comes to a game, the other parts have to match as well.
The gameplay has to be good, it has to be good enough so that a player wants to see the whole game, play the different characters etc. For a game like this, the sound and graphics have to be above par. A cinematic game needs the wow factor on the graphics end or it will not hold it's audience.
Kenny Powers Fastball (PSN johnnynumber5) @ May 27th 2009 5:55PM
try reading the interview. You know ... don't just skim the comments.
TheLionOfAzzalle @ May 27th 2009 7:06PM
Agreed russ....
Seems like it will end up being a tech demo...that is if it doesn't suffer from trying to do so much in terms of trying to change the industry or whatnot.
Petebot330 @ May 27th 2009 5:52PM
I am still really interested in this game, but the fact that it is only 10 hours is kind of a turn off. Maybe I'm spoiled with my never-ending RPGs, though. I'm also concerned with the whole "playing a movie" concept. If it's like choose your own adventure, that's cool, but i don't want "when" you die to be the only variable.
I don't even have a PS3 yet, though, so, I guess I can wait for the reviews...
Discotheque @ May 27th 2009 6:17PM
Eh the gameplay video they showed us had awful dialogue. He keeps saying he wants to tell a mature story that's comparable to film, well hopefully he's a good writer then.
I thought Indigo Prophecy was pretty good, but in terms of adventure games it was definitely no Grim Fandango. I hope Heavy Rain is a great game, but I have my doubts.
Also I was hoping for more of a Fincher-Zodiac vibe from this game. We'll see how it goes.
Silent @ May 27th 2009 6:33PM
Zzzzzzz...Heavy Boredom you mean. This game LOOKS stupid! I don't see what the big deal is.
Kevin949 @ May 27th 2009 8:11PM
so don't buy it...or read about it....or comment on blogs about it....
mezzanine @ May 27th 2009 9:26PM
YA DEY DUNT EVN WARE THA SPASE ARMOAR
emagius @ May 27th 2009 9:26PM
Heavy Rain is pretty much the game I bought a PS3 for (I already had a 360). I don't want to get my hopes too high, but I'm reassured by Cage's comments on Gran Torino, both the frustration he acknowledges at seeing how awesome (in the "awe" sense) a movie can be and the fact that he recognizes that Heavy Rain is not going to rival Gran Torino/Slumdog Millionaire/etc., but will hopefully advance games a little bit further.
On a somewhat related note, I recently read Life's Lottery (by Kim Newman). If you're interested in interactive fiction and/or narrative in games, I highly recommend picking it up. If Heavy Rain even is halfway as good as Life's Lottery, it will be the most revolutionary game ever made.
Wiizer @ May 27th 2009 10:56PM
Hello Kevin,
Regarding the following:
"Talking about creating an emotional experience, I wanted to ask you about the about the technology behind the characters and the surreal realism of them. Did the technology to create these very life-like looking people, did that come out of your goal for the game? Or did you go, "Oh wow. We can make these really great looking people. Let's make a really emotional game."
Did you ask him this question because of what Hideo Kojima said at the keynote in March? Specifically:
"...the recent trend in Western game design. 'Technology-based game design' is not just hardware... Simply put, Metal Gear was born out of hardware limitations advancing together with hardware to reach new heights."
I just found that question to be very interesting, and I think Mr. Cage wasn't getting what you were asking...
Or, I could be completely off-base with all of this! ;D
Ben @ May 28th 2009 5:31AM
That was a great interview! I love David's comments about the pen, heh.
yehmate @ May 28th 2009 9:58AM
i dont doubt this game will be great for 1 second. his ps2 game was a test run for this game,and the fact hes been working on it for years just concretes that.
finally someone with some vision rather then the same ol,same old.
this is a day 1 purchase for me,even my mrs is looking forward to watching/playing it with me.
one more thing, ppl saying 8-10 hours is too short, I dont agree this is like a movie/game, if its too long you'll stop caring.look at SH2,good adult game way too long though,too get all the endings was a lot of work...yes... you can say go to utube,but i want to get the most the game has too offer,after all i paid for it.
so if the multiple endings is the games thing,its got to be a realistic length.
im really looking forward to this game.
Danjer @ May 28th 2009 5:31PM
No...... I don't want to have to buy a PS3 for this...... But......