Nintendo's Rob Lowe discusses casual versus core product cycles
by Xav de Matos 
{ May 27th 2009 at 11:30PM } 
According to Lowe, casual and core software have the same ability to sell, but each at a different pace. While core titles usually sell well within a short time, casual games have a better ability to sell consistently throughout their lifespan on the store shelf.
"For every Carnival Games there is a BioShock and for every Wii Fit there is a Resident Evil 5," Lowe said. "It's really just different product cycle." A strong argument, even if Lowe couldn't name two recently released core titles on his own platform.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
dynnnbag @ May 27th 2009 11:37PM
I'd call him a moron but im so lost in his eyes....
ArchiGamer @ May 27th 2009 11:43PM
Rob Lowe: As you can see, Nintendo and other publishers have made great contributions to the Wii.
Fan: Uh huh..
Rob Lowe: And, uh, third party game have sold well over the long run...
Fan: *stares* ...uh huh...
Rob Lowe: ...with, um...are you okay?
Fan: Hold me...
gamepete64 @ May 27th 2009 11:38PM
Oooo burn!
OnToGloryReturns @ May 27th 2009 11:40PM
Funny how the two core titles he compares to Wii Fit and Carnival Games are not available on the Wii.
Just sayin'
Latin00032 @ May 27th 2009 11:41PM
Isn't he the actor from "Wayne's World"?
shaffy_oppa @ May 28th 2009 12:01AM
Yes the image is of the actor Robert Lowe... its a part of the pun "Not quite... but close enough" or at least I'm hoping its a part of an intentional pun...
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/341/Rob_Lowe098_screen.jpg
this is the Nintendo Rob Lowe
Wes @ May 28th 2009 1:23AM
No that actor is from the Stargate SG1 series and the original/2nd Star gate movie if you ever saw those? Daniel I think was the character name but I'm not really sure. Watched the movies, but, never really followed the tv series beyond the odd episode here and there.
Ferco @ May 28th 2009 3:42AM
@Wes: Nope. http://www.buddytv.com/articles/stargate-sg1/images/michael-shanks-4.jpg
The Dark Wayne @ May 28th 2009 9:36AM
he is the guy from Tommy Boy though
Jay Voorhees @ May 28th 2009 11:29AM
educate yourself shaffy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun
tmacairjordan87 @ May 27th 2009 11:42PM
Since he cited two games that aren't even on his system, what I got from him was
"There's plenty of room for both....as long as someone else is providing the core content"
Kenny Powers Fastball (PSN johnnynumber5) @ May 27th 2009 11:48PM
I think the wording in this post kind of combines the answers from two seperate questions. This gives both answers more clarity:
CG.biz: Do you think your capture of the wider market has come, be it to a large or small extent, at the cost of losing some of your more traditional followers?
RL: No – there is always room for both. For every Wii Fit, Brain Training and Nintendogs title we release we also release a Super Mario Galaxy, Professor Layton, Smash Bros, Metroid and so on. That's not even taking into account the huge number of core gamers who enjoy our Touch Generations range just as much as those who are new to gaming do.
CG.biz: In your opinion, is the casual, family-friendly gamer now more valuable to the video games market than the core gamer?
RL: There is clear room for both and any publisher can demonstrate clear value in both casual and hard core. For every Carnival Games there is a Bioshock and for every Wii Fit there is a Resident Evil 5. What's certain is that many casual games are now becoming 'ever-green' selling consistently over weeks and months, where many hardcore titles may still achieve similar sales levels but over a much shorter time scale. It's really just different product cycles.
ElStefio @ May 28th 2009 12:11AM
"What's certain is that many casual games are now becoming 'ever-green' selling consistently over weeks and months, where many hardcore titles may still achieve similar sales levels but over a much shorter time scale. It's really just different product cycles."
So the way i read that - 'hardcore' titles tend to only be competing against other new and/or recent releases, whereas the 'casual' titles are up against the huge (and ever increasing) Wii back catalog. To me that raises serious questions about the long term sustainability of casual Wii games...
Mr Khan @ May 28th 2009 11:19AM
twisted words yet again? I expect better, joystiq.
VyX @ May 27th 2009 11:44PM
Hahahahaha.
TOTALLY agreed on that last line there!
Neo Senku @ May 27th 2009 11:44PM
Gotta agree with it being a strong argument, but it doesn't do good to name two titles that aren't on your platform. Kinda makes you the wrong person/group/company to be making it.
ArchiGamer @ May 27th 2009 11:47PM
Wii has core games? I kid, I kid.
headkicker @ May 27th 2009 11:50PM
I hope Nintendo learned from the whole Wii Music debacle and showcases some core games at E3 but they'll probably just show Wii Sports 2: The Vengence
Kenny Powers Fastball (PSN johnnynumber5) @ May 28th 2009 12:05AM
Most of the "core" titles on the Wii are from 3rd parties. I guess it just depends on whatever arbitrary definition you want to establish for "core", "mature", "casual" and "hardcore."
The interview didn't give me any sort of insight and it was mostly just generic cliche answers. The kind of things you see from a coach at a post game presser.
Foetoid @ May 28th 2009 4:11AM
Core = Hardcore so thats a no brainer, which is obviously the opposite of casual. It's only the 'mature' description you gave thats a bit different. Games don't have to be mature to be core or casual.
Going by this, i'm expecting to see more core titles at the E3 conference. Not necessarily mature titles (who cares?) but as long as i see quality core titles, i'm happy. Zelda is definately due since it was made on the GC and ported to the Wii. Some sort of Pokemon MMO without friend codes would put me into fits.
Gamer4Life @ May 28th 2009 12:51AM
At least High Voltage is trying to do something about this on going problem.
jackbauer @ May 28th 2009 1:12AM
the GRINDER!!!
BPMOmega [GT,Steam] @ May 28th 2009 3:12AM
I could go for a grinder right now... Yummy.
Ryan Hamilton @ May 28th 2009 1:23AM
This is BS! Nintendo has been plotting this for a long time. It failed with the Gamecube. It succeeded with the Wii. The plot was how to reach nongamers and be able to churn out simplistic games at a fast pace and still make a huge profit. They did it. Screw hardcore gamers.
Ryan Hamilton @ May 28th 2009 1:26AM
I can already tell Nintendo's E3 press conference is going to focus on family friendly fun, and why not? Nintendo is making millions regardless of hardcore gamers. So screw us right? Oh I'm sure they'll throw us a bone here and there, something vaguely hardcore and Reggie will say, hey we gave hardcore gamers a new pikmin game. What else do they want? See, we think of hardcore gamers.
VaultICEE @ May 28th 2009 1:37AM
How did they fail on the Gamecube?
Ryan Hamilton @ May 28th 2009 1:55AM
It ended up in third place in the last gen of consoles. It never became the phenomenon Nintendo was hoping it would become.
Ryan Hamilton @ May 28th 2009 1:56AM
Which is ironic, since I consider RE4 the best overall game of last gen and I mean the Gamecube version, but in the end, best game doesn't matter. It's the numbers, the sales, the appeal.
Foetoid @ May 28th 2009 4:15AM
Why do number/sales/appeal matter? I owned an Xbox and Ps2 last gen with my GC and found 3x the amount of good Ps2 games for the GC and a total of 2 Xbox 1 games worth owning. It was DVD that won last gen. When the Ps2 came out, DVD players were all the rage. To have DVD built into a console, especially after the successful Ps1, was going to be an instant winner. I believe the GC had the best software lineup and controller of last-gen, but the look/design of the machine itself and disk-space killed it.
Insight is the mustard of your doom @ May 28th 2009 7:01AM
"I believe the GC had the best software lineup and controller of last-gen, but the look/design of the machine itself and disk-space killed it."
Actually, it was kind of the game selection that killed it. I'm not saying it had NO good games, and it's fine if you thought that it had more good games than the PS2, but keep in mind that puts you in a minority position. Also, the system had some pretty shitty advertising, and Nintendo didn't do much to help drop the 'kiddy' image that was adopted by so many retards everywhere
pather @ May 28th 2009 2:18AM
Damn, that's not Sam Seaborne!
troushers @ May 30th 2009 10:02AM
The reason why he couldn't name two is that the most recent games Nintendo have produced have catered to both markets: MarioKart Wii, Galaxy and Brawl. These are massive games that require 2+ years to produce. They take you 30hrs to consume. The disparity isn't due to Nintendo not catering to an active game buying public, its in the nature of the assymmetry of game production time versus game consumption time.
Gosh, after discussing why Nintendo are producing games aimed at both markets, you ask for recent games aimed at one market. Are you listening at all to what he is saying?
Azariel_z @ May 28th 2009 3:10AM
Still WiiFit wipes everyone's asses... and is a constant force..
Jesus (PSN: Luttdawg) @ May 28th 2009 3:23AM
Such a shame. They would rather sell an exercise board to a middle-aged fat woman than create games for the type of people who made their company such a success initially. So many talented developers are out there who could be making exciting games for this system but Nintendo would rather them make stupid shit that might interest grandmas.
I've always been a big fan of Nintendo but the E3 shenanigans last year with the execs playing Wii Music was a disgrace. I understand that all companies want to make money but the amount of casual going on at Nintendo is overload. Atleast the balance between core/casual on the DS is a bit better than the Wii.
Brian @ May 28th 2009 5:33AM
Look I am so sick of everybody saying Nintendo screw the core gamers. And they are after non-gamers. Nintendo have core games that have replay value (aka Smash bros brawl, Melee, Mario) that we still play today. However, other consoles Like Xbox360 and Playstation3, you do not see many hardcore gamers play the same game 2-3 years (or 7 years) after its release because they those games look pretty at the time but they lack depth, something else that looks better takes its place. So third parties take advantage of that and flood the market with the same game but with a different coat of paint (at least 85% of the current shooter titles on xbox for example).
My thing is that Ninentdo has a lot casual games because third parties just want to milk the wii cow so they can regain some of that money loss for making "graphically enhanced" games on xbox360 and PS3. The wii is now slowly gaining respect among 3rd parties now and some titles are coming (No more heroes 2, redsteel 2 ...) but we must be patient. Developers are slowing realizing that the wii is more about gameplay and story. Rather than putting out super awesome looking games.
Insight is the mustard of your doom @ May 28th 2009 7:07AM
"Developers are slowing realizing that the wii is more about gameplay and story. Rather than putting out super awesome looking games."
That is such a bad argument, and frankly, I'm getting tired of hearing it. The only folks I've ever heard make that argument are the folks who don't own a PS3 or 360, you know, automatically assume that these 'super awesome looking games' have nothing but 'super awesome graphics' going for them.
I've played twice as many games 'with depth' on my other two consoles than I have the Wii, bro, and the reason you don't see most of us playing the same game years after its release (except games like, uh, I don't know, Halo, COD4, Burnout: Paradise, Orange Box... haha, oh wait, we totally do!) is because we kind of have a selection here, we don't have to play the same game over again.
If you're looking to address depth on the other consoles, don't use Smash as an example. Smash is an example of longevity, sure, but certainly not depth.
OnToGloryReturns @ May 28th 2009 8:25AM
Terrible, terrible argument Brian. Just using the 360 as an example, there are many games that are played over a long period of time - Halo, obviously will be one of the most played games during the console's lifecycle, other titles like Forza, Team Fortress, Gears, COD, Oblivion, Fight Night have rabid fanbases and have dedicated players as well.
Having said that - I haven't played Brawl much due to the crappy online and saw no reason to go back to Galaxy after finishing it. An online service like Live immeasurably (maybe measurably) contributes to games being replayed, not to mention achievments. Online multiplayer for the Wii is a joke.
Patience? We're almost three years in the damn systems lifecycle and the lineup of 'core' titles is sparse at best. On the 360 side there are so many great titles it's difficult to keep up with the library. And if you think these games are about looks and no depth you are clueless. No depth to Civ Revolution, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout, Forza, Soul Caibur, Street Fighter? And that's just a sample.
Nintendo deserves loads of criticism for how they've handled this gen - most specifically allowing third parties to flood the system with shovelware to rake in licensing fees; tarnishing the systems' image and making it difficult for good third party titles to stand out.
tmacairjordan87 @ May 28th 2009 11:24AM
We don't play the same games 3 years after release mostly because we have so many other things to play. I know, having new things to play all the time is hard for a nintendo fan to understand, but we just don't have the time to always replay old games over and over when there's always something new to play.
Mr Khan @ May 28th 2009 11:25AM
We find replay value without the artificial stimulus that is online multiplayer. In spite of the lack of a strong online model.
And you realize if Nintendo had gone the other direction with licensing, a restoration of NES-era policies, they would lose the good 3rd party support along with the bad, and the haters would hate anyway (as that's what they do)
SunKing @ May 28th 2009 6:56AM
OOOOOOOOH. I honestly thought you meant West Wing's Rob Lowe, and I was just thinking, "What the hell?!" Now the world makes sense again.
m0m0 @ May 28th 2009 7:04AM
core games have their ability to sell..... but just not on nintendo's console. that's quite an honest admission there. more that i would expect.
Nook @ May 28th 2009 7:19AM
what the fuck is this? so, he's just rubbing salt in the wounds of the core gamers that have supported nintendo for years, if not decades.
his statement of for every carnaval games there is a bioshock..for every wii fit is re5....yeah buddy...no...you see there are prolly 20 carnaval games for every 1 bioshock. clearly you have not seen a store facing for wii games in some time (if ever).
man, fuck you rob lowe. you can fuck right off jackson.
manyquestions @ May 28th 2009 10:39AM
Carnival Games and WiiFit are generally considered to be two of the more successful "casual" titles to come out recently. If we go by that, the sentence _could_ be read as "for every hugely successful casual games there's a core counterpart." Whether or not that's what he actually meant, I don't know, but it makes more sense that way.
If you read Carnival Games and WiiFit as here representing casual games in general, then yes there is disproportion, but that only makes sense being that the casual games tend to be cheaper to produce and thus more attractive to many companies, especially those seeking to make a quick buck vis-a-vis the Copycat Effect.
Nintendo's control over what other companies make is very limited compared to what they make internally. Thus, a far more meaningful comparison is the one that came above the one about Carnival Games where he said, specifically about Nintendo, ". . . there is always room for both. For every Wii Fit, Brain Training and Nintendogs title we release we also release a Super Mario Galaxy, Professor Layton, Smash Bros, Metroid and so on. . . ."
Mr Khan @ May 28th 2009 11:27AM
Certainly if we count shovelware in, but have we ever? Shovelware always outnumbers the good games. But if we take the "quality" casual games and set them against the "quality" core games, you do find a balance. Hell, you probably see it lean in the favor of core games, just as you do among Nintendo's own selection
Nook @ May 28th 2009 12:05PM
I read his words as: For every casual game avaiable, there is a 'core' game available.
Industry overall - yes.
Nintendo - On DS, sure, ok. On Wii - GTFO, what's he smoking?
The last 'core' game I bought for Wii was....uh....hmmmm....uh..Call of Duty W@W.
Sure the Conduit might well make me happy - but to say it's a one to one ratio is bullshit. Complete bullshit. Go look at your local game shops selection for Wii. Not too many games there for 'core' players.
I have no problem in the reality, and I don't bitch about it. I get a good game every third or fourth blue moon when mars is in precession on years ending with an odd number divisible by pi that equal 5.
No problem, I have a nice collection of games and I know after the conduit I'm back into that astonomical waiting period for another rehashed zelda to come along.
But don't, DON'T say for every *insert casual title* game that ships, there is most certainly NOTa balancing release of a 'core' title. That's a load of cowshit.
And as far as going by quality - it sdoesn't matter if a casual game is quality v. a core game with good quality. If they are both good, they are both good.
Lord knows the casuals don't have a refined pallate yet regarding quality. You could prolly port ET for the 2600 and they'd just think they were doing something wrong.
Maybe I'm in the wrong, but those words rub me the wrong way...as a core gamer for N since 1897.
Storm Eagle @ May 28th 2009 10:26AM
This Rob Lowe impersonator is clearly a douche and has no idea what he's talking about. it was the core gamers who stuck with Nintendo through the days of the NES and on through the N64 and even the Gamecube for some us. Lending our support and still trying to hold onto the hope that Nintendo hadn't left us behind just to make more money. But this is what it's come to. These heartless bastards, who couldn't tell you a GameBoy from a GameGear if it didn't say Nintendo on it, trying to shovel this crap down our throats about them giving the core gaming just as much attention as the family audience. Go shit in your hat.
R @ May 28th 2009 11:22AM
Hey! Game Gear was awesome. I still have mine, in working order, along with a battery pack, magnifying screen, AC adapter, and about 20+ games for it.
Mr Khan @ May 28th 2009 11:28AM
Always get this backwards. The core gamers told Nintendo to fuck right off in the GameCube generation, clearly, favoring the anemic Xbox over the little purple lunchbox.
What they owe is to their core fans, who are a very different breed, and have generally been quite satisfied
Velsar @ May 28th 2009 11:35AM
So when can I dust off my Wii and give it some life?
New Metroid anytime soon?
What about, something else?...
Smash wasn't a core title, not in my book... just the same repetition, good for a rent though.