Kim: Microsoft treating Natal launch like a new console

Actually, that wouldn't be funny at all.

Jeez - who pooped in your Cheerios this morning?

Hell yeah brah! I LOVE IT WHEN INNOVATION AND NEW TECHNOLOGIES FAIL!

Bring on the donkeys man! High five!

So wait, your saying bad things about a company that doesn't want to launch something that's going to be a massive addition to the console as half-assed?

So you'd rather it was rushed out with little to no games / without proper testing and wasn't worth buying, than a ton of different games with Natal working at it's best?

People these days. For Microsoft, this is essentially a new console. It's a new side to it anyway.

Ok, I may be a pretty big MS hater, (although I own a Zune, Xbox, PCS) but even I dont want Natal to fail.

Don't think it's 'funny' but it certainly seems like the most likely outcome - it's going to bomb, and bomb hard. That said, Microsoft's strategy here is certainly the smartest available: they need to promote it like a whole new system in order to get the attention they'd need to compete.

As a 'system', though, they'll be starting from zero against a userbase of over 50 million, which doesn't sound great. Maybe they'd do better being considered as an accessory and comparing against MotionPlus - I don't know how that will look, after the year's (assumed) head start, but it's got to be better than 50 mil down.

I just hope they focus on the games as much as a massive MTV media production, since the developers just started working on games last week.

So what I'm getting out of this is they are going to rush it to the market without testing it like they did the Xbox 360. We will then get Natal coffins and each of us will go through around 3 each. Fanboys will claim they are still on their first ones and will be the ones that ultimately get screwed when their warranty runs out.

Any predictions on how quickly this processor will overheat and DIE? Not a very big space to keep the heat from the chip melting the camera.

This is Microsoft.

Microsoft has money.

Do you they'd actually let Natal fail?

CTC XBL-supapaypamawio PSN-ctclaw,

Quote:
"Fanboys will claim they are still on their first ones and will be the ones that ultimately get screwed when their warranty runs out".


You really need to get off Sony's dick man before you start looking like a douche bag; oh wait...........

Anyway just because you can't accept that Sony raped you and the rest of the PS3 fan base, (with the PS3), don't go around calling everyone who bought a 360 a liar, (when it comes to claims of not having any issues with their 360).

Do you even realize how moronic your statement is ?? The 360 would've had to of had a 100% fail rate for your asshat of a comment to be true, and we all know that's not possible so please give it a rest.

As a matter of fact the only 100% figure you need to be concerning yourself with is Sony's 100% failure at trying to even compete this generation.

Now back to your cave !!

@PARANOID365

I'm sorry to inform you, but I don't have a PS3. I sold mine about a year ago due to lack of games. Yesterday people where saying I was an Xbox 360 Fanboy, and now you're basically calling me a PS3 Fanboy...it can't be both, so which one is it!

Hint: I do 99% of my console gaming on my 360.

Also, I don't see how anyone can still even try and defend Microsoft over the huge amount of errors the 360 has had. I love my 360 and play it all the time, but the failure rate is unacceptable.

CTC
It is Indeed unacceptable. Also I actually just switched to playing only on my PS3 after having it for a little over 1 year. I actually have Microsoft to thank for that, they fixed my old broken Xbox 360 that's been sitting in the closet for over a year for free so I instantly sold it for 200 dollars and bought me some games for PS3 lol.

I hope thats not what this means, but it certainly could turn out that way. If people are willing to pay $250 for Rock Band Beatles then perhaps they are willing to pay ~$250 for the device. I can't. If it works well and comes with some solid games packaged with it I will put down $100 max.

I think you're probably right. Like the original XBox, Natal will probably be a very expensive beta with Microsoft taking their first crack at the hardware, and developers taking their first crack at the software.

This technology will be a lot more polished, and a lot more affordable, when it is actually built into the next-generation XBox.

One thing we have learned from the Wii's motion control, and the XBox's online network, is that these technologies work a hundred times better when they are designed into the console from the ground up, rather than patched in after the fact as a forced add-on.

Or like the balance board, if you market it correctly, it'll sell like hotcake.

I hope thats not what this means, but it certainly could be construed that way.

I find it worrisome that I can't find pricing on the time of flight camera that this is based on. That and the fact that this technology is essentially on-the-fly elevation data processing. It just doesn't sound cheap.

I was thinking the exact same thing, but I hope not since I wouldn't have the money to buy it.

It would be awesome if when Natal was released, they also released patches (or *FREE* DLC) to lots of old 360 games so that they'd have Natal functionality :)

The only hint at price that I can come up with is from here:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/microsofts-project-natal-roots-revealed-3dv-systems-zcam/

"Of note, the former 3DV Systems VP of Business Development was quoted as saying that the target retail price of the ZCam was $100, though it still had aways to go as of early 2008."

Microsoft acquired this company and their tech which is similar to what they were working on with Natal.

If I had to make a best guess, considering that MS is trying to reach a broader audience with a new entry/launch, I'd say they'll probably be selling Natal for a loss at first. So if the camera tech might have been around $100 in 2008, in 2010 (possible launch date) I'd guess that Natal would be sold for under $100 even tho it's probably got a little more hardware than what 3DV was working with.

If I had to place a bet, I'd say $79.99 at launch for the stand alone and probably $249 when bundled with the Xbox Pro version (with 60GB HD)... and maybe less if the Arcade version is still around.

@ Badboy1979

from the same people who charge you $100 Wi Fi adapters and Hard Drives.

I expect they are selling this like a console because they need a "10 year plan"

@ PR0F3TA

The difference I think here is

1) Natal is being treated a new launch which means MS is really trying to get people to purchase the device so they're gonna probably sell it at a loss... similar to how Sony sold the PS3 at a loss to help push Blu-ray and gain market share.

2) those items you mentioned are "premiums" that MS doesn't expect to be acquired by a large number of 360 owners (in the case of the hard drive, they expect people to initially get the 360 version that comes with one if that's what they desire)

@joeybeast:

You mean it will sell like the DS. The DS doesn't sell like hotcakes, hotcakes sell like the DS.

I think they'll call it "Wiix".

I disagree, I think "Xbox" IS a mainstream name. I've heard it used in many movies and have seen Xbox 360's in recent TV shows.

You say Males / 13 -25 as if it were an actual demographic. Xbox was meant for males, 18 - 49 and THEN Microsoft started with younger gamers and now they're trying to target everyone.

And the only reason I'm stating this is not only do I have a high opinion the brand Xbox is mainstream, it's been discussed in Ad Age as well.

Xbox has definitely entered in to the cultural lexicon, but i still see Nimblewick's point

But if Nintendo can sell something called a "Wii" to that 18-34 demographic, i don't think the expanded 5-95 demographic will have too much of a problem picking up an "Xbox" if the games are there

I just think that the people who have traditionally avoided video games also tend to avoid things labeled "X" like eXtreme sports. "X" is only cool to a limited demographic, everyone else thinks it's ridiculous. Much like how Nintendo had to get away from the name Gamecube (and, for that matter, Nintendo), MS should think about moving on from XBOX.

And just because a name is mainstream, that doesn't mean people will buy it. The key is to look at how the name is dropped. Is it being played by a character who is considered a slacker?

Maybe they can call it the "Xi". It is a short name and could be catchy like the Wii. They can say it stands for the Xbox Eye.

I'm 19, and I think the X is stupid. I play a system for the games, not for its name.

It should also be noted that if Microsoft does I think they should do -- rerelease the Xbox 360 with a different name, smaller form factor and Natal built in -- they are essentially doing exactly what Nintendo did with the Wii. Except that they will still have the 360 for people who don't want Natal.

Amen dude. I'm really getting tired of hearing about Natal and motion controlled gaming. It's only going to lead to a shit-ton of casual games flooding in and fucking up the selection of games for the rest of us. Stop making games more accessible and start making them worth playing again.

Guess what, I'll buy it if it's fun.

i think it has decent possibilities in "hardcore" games. gesture controls would be great for fighting games. and some puzzle games. but for now, natal is mostly a gimmick, besides that milo A.I. that was cool.

whats a "real" game and what isnt?

although, if it really is $150+, all i would see it as is an overpriced controller that may or may not work well. i can see how the talking feature would be cool in RPGs, but at that point, you might as well just go talk to a friend or something for a natural conversation.

Shouldn't have to explain that to people here as they should know, but a quick example?

Mass Effect 2= real game
Wii Fit= not a real game

Why isn't it a 'real game'? I guess you could say that, but you're treating 'real game' like it's limited to the same kind of games you've been playing all your life.

It's certainly not a traditional game, and not one designed for or targeted towards those of us who're already gamers, but I wouldn't say that makes it any less of a 'game'.

We're getting a bit off topic here, and I shouldn't have even given an example cause it just derails it further.

My main point is, this shit's not going to work with any of our games. Why are we excited for something that's going to be used with countless amounts of shallow shovelware like the Wii is? Who gets enjoyment out of flailing around their room swatting virtual dodgeballs away?

That sounds more boring than Too Human is (playing that right now, terrible game)

@Fun DMC:

I agree with you. In fact, I think the blurring of what constitutes "a real game" is one of the few good things that has come of this generation. Despite the issues of DLC, length, etc etc blah blah there has been a noticeable rise in the recognition of experimental, nontraditional titles (they've existed before, just now more viable).

And yeah, Nintendo's Wii has contributed to this, but I think XBLA, PSN, and Steam have done so on the same scale. By creating new models for delivering content, we can find gems we wouldn't otherwise and those games, in turn, are recognized. This also pushes designers to stick to their guns and create their offbeat games rather than work in a soulless modeling job for some larger developer.

Yeah, there been some rifts and arguments about "the current state" of gaming and how these "nongames" are terrible and whatever, but honestly, as someone who has been gaming since the NES/Master System, I couldn't be more excited about what's to come. It's an exciting time to be a gamer.

@tmac

I think your mention of Too Human brings up a point. Waggle and waving your arms is ridiculous. Agreed. It definitely doesn't make games any better by a long shot.

However, Too Human is a game using a controller in a pre-existing genre, and it has its fair share of problems. The "traditional" vein of gaming, which there has been some time to iron things out in, still has its missteps of varying size. Why then is it reasonable to expect differently from peripherals that require a totally new avenue of interaction and, thus, design?

Obviously, something so new and foreign to all involved is going to misstep more so than the traditional method. On the flip side, you have the issue of game developers. In order to take advantage of the new method, the developer has to really be willing to push itself. Projects like the wiimote and Natal defy a definition. When the N64 debuted a control stick, its definition was concrete. "Oh, this is an analogue stick and it can control movement." Sure, there was room to experiment, but its constraints were apparent. With the Wiimote and Natal, its--unfortunately--much different. A developer looks at these things that can do a plethora of actions and really define the functions of the device, completely by themselves.

In turn, we find a lot of companies not doing this, instead settling on an easy imitation of preconceived methods of interaction (waggle) or simply trying to throw everything and the kitchen sink into it, leaving us with the shovelware we have today.

It will be fun if motion controls forces all of you elitists back to PC gaming where you belong anyway.

Have fun!

Not as fun as it would be to watch the industry die because everyone got tired of shallow minigames with no substance or point to them.

I wouldn't mind taking a break from gaming for a noah's ark type of situation where it's wiped out and started from scratch again. That would be the ultimate "I told you so".

But see, I don't think we are in sort of any impending gaming apocalypse. If anything, developers go under now do to the massive amount of money required to make a current-gen game. As a result, it only takes one shitty game for some companies to go belly up.

Sure, there's a flood of shovelware, but I think it's only made apparent by the rise in mainstream recognition of videogames. Shovelware has existed since the beginning. The sudden influx of new, uneducated gamers, however, has simply made shovelware more apparent. Not to mention the development costs for shovelware are much more pleasing to see than the development costs of say a Halo 3 or Haze. As a result, we're in something of a shovelware "bubble" where it's just more or less in our faces than normal. I think over time, shovelware will die down. We will still have our casual, nontraditional games, but these will be the Professor Laytons, the Zombie vs Plants, etc that are actually good.

Wow tmac.

This is not going to create a doomsday scenario. All the hardcore games will still exist, and they'll still use the pad.

God, why is everyone making this more than what it is? This is MS's way to try to get a piece of the Nintendo pie. It only makes sense to do so.

There are far more soccer moms that enjoy the waggle than anyone who visits this site.

The great thing about this and sony's controller is we finally get a win-win. Hardcore and family games. The money from the family games can keep our games funded, and early adopters will continue to be the hardcore who can push the way for the system.

And maybe somewhere along the way, they can find some cool stuff to use it for in these "real games" everyone's talking about. Either way, this isn't taking your gamepad away from you.