Ghostbusters on PS3 lags behind 360 version; developer explains
by Christopher Grant 
{ Jun 17th 2009 at 5:15PM } 
Richard Leadbetter – Director of HD consultancy Digital Foundry and author of Eurogamer's multiplatform comparison Face-off features – tweeted that playing Ghostbusters on the PS3 was like "time-warping back to the dawn of PS3 development." Ouch! That's especially painful to read considering the high hopes Terminal Reality – developers of the just-released Ghostbusters game – have for their multiplatform Infernal Engine.
Internet reports of a less-than-stellar PS3 version of the title originated at Lens of Truth on Monday, were later corroborated by Gamezine.co.uk and, following tomorrow's publication of Leadbetter's most recent Face-off feature, will be further corroborated by Eurogamer. Confusing the issue even further is the following quote from Terminal Reality's Mark Randel, who told VG247 last year, "We're one of the few developers who love the PS3 and have a great time with it. We have great technology for the PS3 and we want to show it off."
Instead of leaving it up to internet Matlocks, we asked Terminal Reality to comment on the controversy. A spokesperson for the developer told us, "For the record, the PS3 version [of Ghostbusters] is softer due to the 'quincunx' antialiasing filter and the fact we render at about 75% the resolution of the 360 version. So you cannot directly compare a screen shot of one to the other unless you scale them properly. The PS3 does have less available RAM than the 360 – but we managed to squeeze 3 out of 4 textures as full size on the PS3."
So: is the PS3 "maxed out"? Or is Terminal Reality's engine – despite comments to the contrary – just not up to snuff on the PS3? With most recent multiplatform titles performing comparably, if not identically, on both the Xbox 360 and PS3 consoles, we'd be inclined to agree with Mr. Leadbetter: it's like "time-warping back to the dawn of PS3 development" when PS3 games were routinely outperformed by their Xbox 360 counterparts. Let's hope the irony of the situation is lost on Ghostbusters' exclusive European publisher ... Sony. As well as the franchise's owner ... Sony Pictures.
Gallery: Ghostbusters (PS3 vs. Xbox 360)
Source – Head2Head: Ghostbusters
Source – @Digital_Foundry
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
xplanesforstarsx @ Jun 17th 2009 5:19PM
I could have told you that even without ever seeing the two games.
MaliceMajorE15 @ Jun 17th 2009 5:23PM
what does that mean or is it just some unnessary fanboy-ism
Mein Bratwurst @ Jun 17th 2009 5:27PM
Sup Sprinkles.
Feeding Blasphemy @ Jun 17th 2009 6:12PM
(aka "let the flame-wars start")
edhe @ Jun 17th 2009 6:31PM
It's not fanboism, just the running theme of this generation if you like the cold hard facts that eurogamer put out in their comparisons every so often.
18 or so rounds of multiplatform comparisons, the 360 wins every time, even if it's narrower than before.
You should check their gta4 comparison, was an absolute geek-treat about performance statistics. Showed that not only the ps3 rendered at a lower resolution, but at a significantly dropped framerate also.
Next gen started with the ps3 alright.
MaliceMajorE15 @ Jun 17th 2009 6:55PM
@edhe
well.... given the fact that the developer is a self proclaimed ps3 lover and that they claimed that the 360 was holding them back,
http://xbox.joystiq.com/2008/04/30/ghostbusters-dev-360-holding-back-ps3-version/
i think people can be forgiven for thinking that perhaps for once that ps3 owners might recieve the optimal version or at least one on par. Im a fan of digital foundry on eurogamer and i watch the face offs all the time, in the last four or five face off's the diffence between the big titles on both consoles have been neglible. with 360 having arguably a SLIGHT edge on the ps3 usually due to having full AA. but thats not a big deal. there is no excuse for this amount of disparity. ive played the ps3 version and at the time i thought that it looked nothing like the pictures on the back of the box.
B-rad @ Jun 17th 2009 7:22PM
Sony is the "Microsoft" of this generation. They are forcing developers to follow their non-standardized coding methods, which produces crappier products and stifles industry innovation. Bravo Sony... you've successfully managed to strong-arm the field to get your way at the expense of everyone else. Of course, in the end its the consumer that gets screwed when companies do this.
F Sony
phinnvr6 @ Jun 17th 2009 8:01PM
With games like Resident Evil 5 looking identical on both systems... Then seeing screenshots of PS3's Uncharted 2:
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/945/945191/uncharted-2-among-thieves-20090115041042678.jpg
Clearly the developer of Ghostbusters is full of sh** and they just didn't work very hard on it.
MaliceMajorE15 @ Jun 17th 2009 8:17PM
" the fact we render at about 75% the resolution of the 360 version. So you cannot directly compare a screen shot of one to the other unless you scale them properly"
i just went back and read that. how cheeky is that? thats like saying they would look more similar if you shrink one 25%. i know its a common technique used on multiplatform titles for example gta4 but you cant use a shortfall to justfy another one.
Copland @ Jun 17th 2009 9:57PM
@phinnvr6
I completely agree!
I've looked at the HDMI hi-res comparison screenshot on this site
and they just look too different... :(
Hedgeson @ Jun 17th 2009 10:23PM
Hey B-Rad:
Sony's console architectures, including the PS1 and PS2, was not standard when compared to PCs. Arguably, the PS2 architecture is better geared for games than a PC of comparable price or performance. It's not new to this generation.
I'll try a link to the Ars Technica article from 2000. I think there was a more recent version but I can't find it:
Furthermore, how is going out of standards stiffling innovation? Isn't it the opposite? It may oppose design by making the technical side harder to develop, but new techniques can be
Hedgeson @ Jun 17th 2009 10:28PM
I'll try that link again:
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2000/04/ps2vspc.ars
Alistair Azimuth PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Jun 17th 2009 11:12PM
@B-Rad
A couple of things ... I was reading one of the recent issues of Playstation magazine and they had a section about the Playstation state of the union from developers. It seems the developers seem to have a different opinion about which console has the most powerful innards. It's an interesting read.
What you see below is the company and (essentially) the exact quotes taken in context. Pick up the issue of Playstation Magazine with God Of War 3 on the cover for the full interviews. I actually posted this a few days back during another discussion and thought it would be relevant for this particular topic. Take what you will from it but here you go ...
Neversoft - Console developers looking to push the hardware are facing an evolution in how they think about the processes that go on in games - from fairly monolithic, linear sets of operations to a much more parallelized, piecemeal approach. The cell pushes developers to take the subdivision of these processes one step further, the nature of the SPE's really drives you to break your systems down into relatively tiny subsystems which can operate on small, carefully delineated chunks of data. Developers have reached a point where they they are familiar with the PS3 RSX and PPE that improvements will be incremental. We think the SPEs remain an underutilized resource; this is where the major increases in performance and abilities will come, particularly as more work is done on how to effectively utilize the SPE's in tandem with the RSX for greater graphical processing power.
Ubisoft Montreal - The PS3 has a lot of unused power although it demands a special kind of work to express that power. On our first glance at the CELL architecture we weren't sure what we could do with the SPUs. But after a few years of messing with them, the SPUs turn out to be really capable beasts. They can churn out a lot of computations, they're a perfect compliment to the RSX, and if you program especially for them, they can surpass everything available in the current gen. They're also flexible enough to do a broad range of work and Sony's new tools makes it so they can be used for increasingly complex tasks. The program model used for SPUs is also the most future proof, so we'll get to see it more and more. This programming model gives us the expectation in the progression of quality games helped on the storage side by the capacity of Blu-Ray discs and the non-optional hard drive.
Backbone Entertainment - The PS3 is quite a fun system to work on. We've been really lucky in getting to work on a wide variety of projects on the platform, and have had great results. It's actually our favorite platform to show tech and game demos on; because it has the reputation of being the big bad ass machine. If you can show a demo running on the PS3, people are generally pretty impressed. We've actually used a PS3 build to prototype out a demo for a Wii game, which might be unique! There's a ton of power in the system for whatever you need, whether it's graphics, physics, etc. We're struggling to come up with game types that we couldn't do on the PS3 and really can't think of any. From the development side, we're excited about the future in features like remote play with PSP, and all the connectivity the system offers.
Nihilistic Software - It's cliche, but it's a very "deep" machine. Which means the deeper you dig, the more you can do with it. Even working on our third title for the PS3 we're able to make frequent improvements in performance and visual quality because there's so many ways to do things. It really rewards experimentation and trying new things out. Not everything works out and we've thrown away a lot of code over the years on failed experiments, but I think we're a "long way" from maxing out the hardware.
Quantic Dream - The graphics power is what we relied upon most and it is certainly delivering very impressively on that. The PS3 may deliver strongest in the future on it's online capabilities. I am not thinking only MMOs, but also community based experiences and most importantly online services.
Vicious Cycle Software - Developing on the PS3 can be complicated due to subtleties of the hardware. If you don't use the hardware to it's best advantage, it makes it hard to compete against other developers who are able to take full advantage of the system. Over the next three years we sould see the development community really starting to tap into the power of the PS3 hardware. There is still a lot of potential on the system and I believe we will see better games over it's life cycle compared to the other platforms on the market. More graphics, physics and rendering will get moved to the SPUs moving forward which will allow larger worlds, more simulation, more dynamic objects and better visuals overall. It is a very exciting time in the games industry and we look forward to bringing high quality titles to the PS3.
EA Visceral - We love developing on the PS3 - it's usually our lead SKU. The graphical capabilities are amazing as you can see with Dead Space and Dante's Inferno. We have a very close relationship with Sony and working with them has been a pleasurable partnership. We love the fact that the Blu-Ray disc can hold so much data. There's no doubt thats a huge attraction for us as a developer We're still learning new ways to squeeze even more out of the PS3.
Gearbox Studios - The PS3 is a sexy, powerful machine. Look at a few points: graphics, performance and market relevance. I think it's pretty clear at this point that in the long game, the PS3 can have the edge in graphics and performance depending on how specialized the software can be with the SPUs. It's harnessing the power that is a challenge for most developers and requires a substantial investment for us to do so. As far as other features, I think the free online service is a compelling option for customers and developers. What we love most about the PS3 is the Blu-Ray disc and it's tremendous storage advantage over DVD. WHile there is some risks with seek times developers must be careful about, the storage capability is a dream come true for the kinds of games we create that feature lots of high fidelity music, voice over, and huge amounts of graphics content. This PS3 advantage can not be overstated.
Bethesda - It's an interesting architecture, and it really hasn't been until the last year that developers have cracked it and really gotten how to use so many small processors each with their own memory. It takes a different type of thinking to maximize what it can do, but you're starting to see it now from simple things like running animation on an SPU, to more exotic things like line-of-sight rendering in Killzone 2. It's not to hard to draw a quality line from the first PS3 games to the latest, and guess where it's going to be by the end of this year, and then 2010.
Guerilla Games - We've found the PS3 is easier to develop for than it's competitors, provided one approached it with the right mindset. The cell based architecture allows programmers to offload all of their calculations task to the SPUs. On other platforms, general purpose cores must handle a variety of tasks and calculations- which then quickly become a nightmare to synch. In that regard we believe the PS3's reputation for being hard to develop for is largely undeserved.
Insomniac - We've learned a lot about taking better advantage of the SPUs, and redesigning our systems and gameplay to be more asynchronous. The PS3 is a computational powerhouse; if you want to build something that is based on calculating a lot of physics, objects and collision detection, you can't do better. The water physics in resistance 2 are something made possible by the cell and SPUs. Going forward, there is a lot of room to use the SPUs, and we'll see a lot of people find ways to use the SPUs that aren't related to graphics.
whew ... didn't think it was going to turn into all that much typing. Anyway ... should give a good idea about how different developers feel about the PS3.
JudasPrius @ Jun 17th 2009 11:34PM
@Alistair
Too long bro!
Alistair Azimuth PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Jun 18th 2009 12:10AM
@Judas
I know man ... I know.
It's way to long but I (for some reason) took the time to transcribe it so I figured I'd at least post it. It's worth a read if you want good insight into what developers think of the PS3.
ladykiller @ Jun 18th 2009 2:34AM
@Alistar
yeah, no one's going to read that. especially when you've lost 90% of the audience at "I read this in Playstation magazine."
even Stevie Wonder could see that bias.
bluesky_v2.01 @ Jun 18th 2009 2:40AM
Thanks for posting Alistair, very informative. Makes me want to subscribe to Playstation Magazine.
avan @ Jun 18th 2009 2:43AM
I miss my Nintendo 64 :`(
John @ Jun 18th 2009 3:17AM
Don't listen to johnny, he works at sony.
Shill
B-rad @ Jun 18th 2009 11:33AM
@ Hedgeson,
When companies like Sony decide to buck industry standards by making their console difficult to develop for, it may force some game developers to compromise their cross-platform games to make them work on ALL consoles. Case in point, for Ghostbusters, if the PS3 was as easy to code for as the 360 the developers would have had more money to pump into the game to make it better and not the craptacular-fest it seems to be now. I guarantee you that 1 of 2 things happened:
1) they blew more money on trying to get the PS3 version up to par, which hurt their budget and hurt the game as a whole, or...
2) they compromised on the PS3 version (which it looks like) because its harder to develop for and they didn't have the money to make it as good as the 360 version.
But regardless of what happened, it still hurt the end product. We as consumers are the real losers here. And mostly because of Sony's decision to design a game console that is deliberately hard to develop for.
THAT is how innovation, creativity, and value is stifled and how it affects you,the consumer.
Debikul @ Jun 17th 2009 5:21PM
Oh god. Just when you thought it was safe and the war of the fanboys was letting up a little bit this happens.
Just sit back, read comments and laugh your ass off is what I have to say.
WTangoFoxtrot @ Jun 17th 2009 5:21PM
interesting. dint they say a while ago that they had to scale back the ps3 version of the game because the 360 could not handle the same level ? then again that must have been sony talking through em....
McWilly @ Jun 17th 2009 5:28PM
Yeah. They knew the 360 version was going to look abysmal so they made the PS3 version look worse and then MIcrosoft bribed them and then they made it extra worse. Too bad because I've seen pictures of the PS3 version in early development and it looked like crysis times 50 but oh well...
Tep @ Jun 17th 2009 5:40PM
@WTangoFoxtrot
Um...can I see these screenshots please? Considering consoles can't even handle Crysis without it making look like a slidshow (fuck Cryengine 2) I'd like to see some proof of that
McWilly @ Jun 17th 2009 5:51PM
Umm, I think you meant me but now I'm not sure because you seem to think I was being serious.
Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ Jun 17th 2009 9:32PM
http://xbox.joystiq.com/2008/04/30/ghostbusters-dev-360-holding-back-ps3-version/
McWilly @ Jun 17th 2009 10:20PM
Still doesn't explain why the PS3 version ended up looking worse. You'd think the console being held back would look at the least the same if not better than the "inferior" one. But no, it's the other way round so how does that happen?
DeepFriedSushi @ Jun 17th 2009 11:52PM
360 didnt hold back anything, from the screenshots i'd say the ps3 version held back development since they had to rescale the textures for the ps3 version instead of most games using the same assets.
LordAbsu @ Jun 17th 2009 5:22PM
Oh, hoorah!!
More fuel for the console flame wars!!
supalocrian @ Jun 17th 2009 5:27PM
Well first off, you can't judge a game just on screenshots. I think what we've seen more recently is that most publishers are making the PS3 ver their lead platform for multiplatform titles, because the transition from PS3 to 360 is easier than from 360 to PS3, and results in fewer differences between the versions. Maybe Terminal Reality decided to lead w/ the 360 ver for some reason??? Then the comment about "timewarping to the dawn of PS3 developement" would make sense, since multiplatform games then were typically done w/ the 360 as the lead version.
tuck @ Jun 17th 2009 5:31PM
I assume you have a ps3.
supalocrian @ Jun 17th 2009 5:46PM
Hehe, nope. 360 gamer actually. It's just that games look different in screenshots than they do in motion. Take Okami for example. Screenshots of that game looked like crap. But man, when that game was in motion....pure beauty! I would take a smooth framerate over higher res anyday.
So, my point being, a single comparison screenshot is not enough to judge a game.
Caveman @ Jun 17th 2009 6:00PM
As many developers have said the PS3 is complicated to code for. Time = money.
To lead with the PS3 just goes to show how flexible the 360 is as a system.
waves @ Jun 17th 2009 6:02PM
I suppose, but you're talking about the same game on 2 different platforms. I highly doubt that the PS3 version runs much smoother than the 360 if they had to sacrifice resolution and textures like that. Plus, we've already seen videos of the game in motion, and it's not doing anything as impressive as Okami...
Lars @ Jun 17th 2009 6:15PM
@Caveman,
I'm a developer. It's not complicated to program for at all. In fact it makes multithreading much easier.
When devs say "it's difficult" they mean that they have an engine already developed, which they can't just copy and paste that to the PS3's architecture. (Well, they can, if they ignore the SPU's... but it wasn't designed to work that way.)
eNrique @ Jun 17th 2009 6:52PM
Yeah, developing on the 360 is soo easy,
a caveman can do it.
Burns11 @ Jun 17th 2009 10:12PM
@ Lars
They also mean that the half able programmers they hire at reduced salary to be coding monkeys that don't have the knowledge or skill beyond the very basic.
I haven't written a game for the PS3 (yet), but when the PS3 was released I bought one for work just to put linux on and try some stream processing. Even limited by the low ram you have access to, it ran so fast and efficient that the company was convinced to drop a bundle on a blade server and a bunch of Cell blades. All it took was a bit of skill and forethought.
Stream processing isn't exactly game friendly, but the point is that a competent programmer can make the system run like a champ.
Bradwart @ Jun 18th 2009 12:20AM
@ caveman
Flexible wouldn't be the right word when describing the 360. We're talking the least fault-tolerant system in history here. I'd say it shows how outdated the architecture is. (Even Apple dumped PowerPC awhile ago, saying it wasn't adaptable to their needs, and had excessive heat generation...hmm ;P) Consoles shouldn't be too easy to program for (it encourages them to make crap, aka Wii) and they shouldn't be tapped out in what Microsoft considers the third year of the console (Gears 2).
But Ghostbusters? There is no excuse for crappy programming, and blaming the system doesn't cut it, especially when there is documented proof that the PS3 is capable of so much more than that.
vahdyx @ Jun 17th 2009 5:25PM
I hate how PS3 sucks. It's my primary system, I keep hearing about how good the Xbox is and that kind makes me want to get one, but I don't feel like paying for a system that's gonna have the same games on it as the PS3 does. So I'll just get it and not complain.
tuck @ Jun 17th 2009 5:40PM
Multiplatform games' graphics are almost similar on both consoles. The ps3 has slightly better graphics overall. It comes down to exclusives.
uncle jesse @ Jun 17th 2009 5:57PM
"The ps3 has slightly better graphics overall."
tuck, be careful. You might not realize it, but comments like that can be taken a lot of different ways to many people around here.
McWilly @ Jun 17th 2009 6:06PM
Well it doesn't really matter to anyone who actually knows the specs of the consoles. PS3 has better graphics... sure. Keep on believing that.
Kill a mans jiro @ Jun 17th 2009 6:24PM
Heavy.......Rain
Jake @ Jun 17th 2009 6:39PM
yeh its clear that the ps3 is better at graphics, just compare exclusives
it's the multi platform games that make everyone (xbox fans) think that it's rubbish, what it comes down to is how good the studio is. Most multi plat games are developed on xbox then ported to ps3 and they always mess it up
what this shows is that this dev team clearly aren't very good at they're job, because you look at most multi plat games now and they're near identical. This just makes me think the company are shoddy
Caveman @ Jun 17th 2009 6:46PM
@ Jake
I love Monday Morning quarter backs like you.
Nothings better than telling other people how to do their job!
DBuck_Eye @ Jun 17th 2009 7:59PM
@Jake
The PS3 was the lead platform for Ghostbusters. So how do you explain this, other than faulting the dev (which is who I think is the problem)?
Wes @ Jun 17th 2009 10:11PM
@kills a mans Jiro
"Heavy.......Rain"
Ah, sorry to hear your gf is having that time of the month. I guess its no video games for you for the next three to four days. Ah well. Sucks to be you :P
Giroro @ Jun 17th 2009 5:26PM
Cell processing is cool and all, but RAM is important AND cheap.
No excuses SONY
tuaamin13 @ Jun 17th 2009 5:30PM
Except when you use the type of RAM they're using, it's a bit more expensive.
It's not the DDR2 (or 3) RAM you stick in your computer.
Shagittarius @ Jun 17th 2009 5:31PM
Both companies dropped the ball when it comes to vram this generation.