Lost Winds dev: Reviewers are a problem with low Wii metacritic scores
by Ben Gilbert 
{ Jun 19th 2009 at 4:30PM } 
And he makes a good point. If Joystiq's readership is primarily "core gamers," what's the point in covering casual fare meant for more mainstream crowds? Braben continues, "It throws up a difficult dilemma for those reviewers ... are they reviewing the game for those people likely to play it, or for those people who form the bulk of their readership?" We put it to you, Joystiq loyalists: Continue to cover games intended for a "casual," more mainstream audience (as well as more "hardcore" titles), or focus on "core" games coverage exclusively?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Bradwart @ Jun 19th 2009 4:33PM
Hardcore games only. Mario is fine, but no more PETZ or crap like that.
Perhaps have a 'JoystiqKidz'?
Dy-lon @ Jun 19th 2009 5:01PM
Do both. Games should have their positive qualities noted. I would review Peggle horribly but I can see why others enjoy it.
Extinction @ Jun 19th 2009 5:36PM
Yeah, blame the reviewer not the game *rolls eyes*
iofthestorm @ Jun 19th 2009 6:04PM
Right, drivel like that should be obvious. At the same time though, stuff like LostWinds is harder to classify. Sure, it's not a "hardcore gamer" type game, but it's not just a shitty tie-in or useless crap that they spent a week making or something. Just because a game isn't part of the "hardcore" market doesn't mean it's not a good game. Hell, Mario predates all this Gears of War and Halo trash and I wouldn't call it a hardcore/core game, it's just a damn good game that everyone can appreciate. These artificial distinctions only serve to make people look like tools.
iofthestorm @ Jun 19th 2009 6:05PM
Also, where is the LostWinds sequel? I enjoyed the 3 hours or so it took to play through it, but it really felt like it could make a much larger game, a la Little Big Planet or something.
Leobebes (BDF: Braid Defence Force) @ Jun 19th 2009 6:37PM
Halo is trash now? Wow something becomes popular and its all of a sudden trash. Nintendo and Sony fanboys cream their pants over Killzone 2, Resistance, and the Conduit but Halo is trash.
Butthurt babies the lot of you.
milan @ Jun 19th 2009 9:11PM
@ Leobebes
I think Halo is pretty suck, but I am allowed to look forward to The Conduit because I am interested in it's unique customizable control sceme. That sets em apart bud.
YinzJagz (PSN: YinzJagz) @ Jun 19th 2009 11:23PM
@ leobebes
Dude i own all three consoles, and halo is crap. OOOOH duel wield and regenerating health bar ( The regen health bar ruined gaming I.M.O., It just takes you out of the experience. Instead of finding health you just run away and hide in the corner for 30 secs and all your boo boo's are gone? LAME!
Anyways a game is a game. any game can be enjoyed by anyone (casual or core) Casual gamers may not be able to enjoy or play a core game, but a core gamer can play and enjoy a casual game. To exclude us from consideration when reviewing is rediculous. It's like saying "Oh well they're just picky brats, who only like complicated games". He has a point to a degree, with who the game is intended for. But a game is a game, being a casual game does not exempt you from wonky controls Cough* Lost Winds *Cough , framerate drops, and other thing that anger gamers. Remember reviewers a core gamer always starts as a casual gamer, so how long before even the casual gamer is a core gamer. Moot Point.
Skaz @ Jun 20th 2009 3:10AM
@yin
It doesnt sound like you played halo at all. Just skimmed reviews.
jONEz @ Jun 20th 2009 10:34AM
Halo is to FPS as WoW is to RPG's. Beaten to a bloody pulp with noob sticks so anyone can enjoy it. Don't get me wrong, I play WoW, and I love it. But the only reason I play it is because of the player base, and none of my friends will play EQ2. They think it's to long and drawn out, which it is, because it has an actual story.
I played Halo 1 and really enjoyed the co-op. Tried Halo 2 and it didn't have the same feel. Never bothered with Halo 3. Why do people say Halo sucks?
1) Auto-aiming, in a genre that revolves around reflexes and precision.
2) Regenerative health.
3) Moon boot jumping.
MP in Halo is garbage compared to most other FPS. The single player is great, but you can only play that so many times. Personally I don't like vehicles in a shooter but that's just my opinion, I know a lot of people do.
Halo didn't innovate in any regards. I can't think of one single feature in the game that wasn't done before, and it most cases better.
mazza_man @ Jun 20th 2009 5:33PM
I'm a Wii fanboy who just bought a 360. And I'm loving Halo...
bm @ Jun 21st 2009 4:42AM
"being a casual game does not exempt you from wonky controls Cough* Lost Winds *Cough"
Ok, your opinion is now null and void.
Christ-ian @ Jun 19th 2009 4:34PM
Both baby! I know you can do it!
FlamingEffigy @ Jun 19th 2009 4:36PM
Both, why block out more information, the informed man is the best man.
Ghen @ Jun 19th 2009 5:29PM
I agree, both. We core gamers have to know what quality casual games to buy our families to trick them into gaming. But don't review for them, they aren't reading your blog. Review for the readers who will then make the judgment as to the family members interest.
Rabidkeebler @ Jun 20th 2009 9:32AM
I agree. It is almost like saying that whenever a bad kids movie comes out, those adults that are reviewing it should view it from the kids side since they are the ones that want to see it.
Kids like even bad movies. So that wouldn't work. It is the same thing with video games. Kids will choose really bad games. So should we give bad games good reviews just because kids might like them?
Highlar @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:00AM
I disagree with you here on one point. They SHOULD review all games, but they should maybe split either the review or a part of the review (maybe the conclusion) into two parts: how the core would view it, and how the casual would view it. IGN does this sometimes in their reviews, and I think its an excellent idea. Boom Blox is, by pretty much most accounts, a "casual" game, but it is a blast to play for ANYone. This could be said in the review. Don't just review a game from one point or the other. Review it from BOTH points, so as to give a more rounded interpretation of the game. Like you said, kids may like "bad" movies, but then again, that's YOUR interpretation of "bad". I love Mel Brooks films like Spaceballs, and that movie is entirely bad on all counts: its crass, cheesy, horrible plot and story, etc. But I think its a great movie. Does that make mean that I like bad films? No, it means my opinion of a movie is different than someone else's. I say review from both perspectives, and say so: how a core gamer would experience a game, and how the casual gamer would experience the game.
Jason Axelrod @ Jun 19th 2009 4:37PM
I would be happy if I NEVER see another Wii story on this website again.
Brett @ Jun 19th 2009 4:55PM
I would be happy if I never see a troll again on this website...damn, I just saw you
Mr Khan @ Jun 19th 2009 5:00PM
It must burn that the thing you hate is so relevant and important, huh?
Jason Axelrod @ Jun 19th 2009 5:08PM
How am I being a troll? The OP asked us loyal readers if they should continue covering casual games, or just stick to the core; which is their primary fanbase. I'm saying they should stick to the core, which is frankly not what the Wii is offering.
Erluti @ Jun 19th 2009 5:15PM
Or in other words, you are trolling.
Haohmaru (PSN - DimmuBurgerKing XBL - A Real Puppet ) @ Jun 19th 2009 5:30PM
Yes, because Metroid and Zelda are -so- not hardcore games.
You are trolling, and you're not even very good at it.
Extinction @ Jun 19th 2009 5:39PM
"Yes, because Metroid and Zelda are -so- not hardcore games."
Wind waker, and phantom hourglass agree with this statement
bongoes @ Jun 19th 2009 5:56PM
Why did Haohmaru get voted down? It seemed pretty clear to me he was being sarcastic.
Haohmaru (PSN - DimmuBurgerKing XBL - A Real Puppet ) @ Jun 19th 2009 8:30PM
@ Bongoes
Yeah, I was. I think the Gamertag and PSN ID in my username may have caused some doubt among readers with broken sarcasm detectors. I'd put my Friend Code there as well, but it's too long. ;)
@ Extinction
What makes the Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass "casual?" The art style? Because if that's the case, you can group virtually every 8-bit and 16-bit game into that category as well, along with Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, and Braid, among others.
If you had said "casual-friendly," sure. I'd be willing to give you that, but NOT "casual." It sounds like you're one of those who use that term loosely to describe any game that doesn't have sex, blood, and/or headshots. Hate on the games like Petz, Bratz, and Imagine: (random plural noun ending with "Z" here) instead of the ones that actually offer compelling gameplay.
Joe @ Jun 19th 2009 4:37PM
There's a lot of truth in what he says, though I think Joystiq should cover all (major) games anyhow - to be honest Joystiq isn't the most hardcore site out there anyhow ;)
There will eventually be reviewers of Wii games that are aimed at less hardcore gamers; in fact, folks like the WiiViewer are out there already. 'Family gamers' will read those reviewers, and ignore the reviewers not aimed at their demographic - just like people have done for movies and books for years. How many guys read the Romantic Times for book reviews, anyhow?
Mostly Harmless @ Jun 20th 2009 9:16PM
Gah! Why did you have to say "anyhow" so much!
It completely took away from your point!
None of them were necessary!
Couldn't you have at least switched in an "anyways"?
Sorry, that just really bothered me.
MC AVP @ Jun 19th 2009 4:37PM
Well I haven't seen anything about StyleSavvy or whatever it is so you guys are doing ok, I'd say
Just don't second guess yourselves, you're sounding insecure!
Ben! @ Jun 19th 2009 4:38PM
The current way is fine. If casual gamers aren't interested in review scores, what's the difference? Plus, an occasional gem like Peggle comes along, where pretty much everybody agrees that it's great. I'd hate to miss a game like that just because of some strange, imaginary line between "casual" and "core."
Take a game like Boom Blox for instance. On the surface, it seems like a thrown-together, gimmicky Wii game like any other. As it turns out, it's a lot of fun and definitely worth any Wii owner's time. If reviewers shied away from casual titles, nobody would have given it a try in the first place.
ElStefio @ Jun 20th 2009 12:04AM
"The current way is fine. If casual gamers aren't interested in review scores, what's the difference?"
Exactly. It occurs to me that if something like a Petz game has a bad metacritic score it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to sales, as the people that game would appeal to are hardly the sort to check it's scores before buying it.
Shagittarius @ Jun 19th 2009 4:38PM
Just like every PC release that could be qualified as a "game" is not reviewed, theres no need to review every Wii release for gamers.
jaredgood1 @ Jun 19th 2009 7:16PM
That's the problem with scores in general, they give no context. Something can be lacking when compared against it's peers, but still be enjoyable taken for what it is. Plenty of movies are total garbage when compared to other movies but can still be fun.
Haohmaru (PSN - DimmuBurgerKing XBL - A Real Puppet ) @ Jun 20th 2009 11:20AM
Exactly. There's no need for a gaming magazine or blog to review Imagine: Babiez or the Littlest Pet Shop, except for the lulz.
I miss Seanbaby's monthly EGM feature. xD
Jeffrey Abell @ Jun 19th 2009 4:39PM
Cover both - oftentimes these "casual" games can be a great way to introduce new people to the medium of video games. I agree with effigy - the more information the better.
Storm Eagle @ Jun 19th 2009 4:41PM
Keep the core stuff coming. I think the casual market will ultimately be the downfall of the gaming community.
But that statement he makes of those reviewers being the wrong people for the job could be said about any game being reviewed by any person. Reviews are an opinion, and the reviews personal opinion regarding the genre or developer that the game stems from is always going to play a part in the final outcome of the review. It's the reader's duty to take the good with the bad and construct their own conclusion. And ultimately decide if the the game they're reading about is for them or not. I imagine if any one of us based their purchasing decisions on any one review site, or reviewer for that matter, our gaming experience would be very negatively effected. Play the games you like to play to play and be happy with what you enjoy.
Storm Eagle @ Jun 19th 2009 4:46PM
And just to clarify, when I speak of casual games, I speak of the dumbed down gimmicky games thrown out there "for everyone". I'm talking about Wii Fit and all the other exercise "games", and rediculous TV and movie games like Hell's Kitchen, Dancing with the Stars and Hannah Montana. I do not consider Puzzle games "casual" games because Tetris and other games like that have been around forever and they used to be a challenge. I beat Peggle in 3 days. Not that I didn't enjoy every second of it, but come on. That's $3.33/day to play!
Mr Khan @ Jun 19th 2009 5:02PM
You have to split hairs between the good casual games and the bad ones, though. Wii Fit is one of the good ones, as is stuff like Mario & Sonic
The shovelware is never going to be reviewed anyway, and the shovelware has always been and will always be there: ubiquitous, at least until console development costs are finally pushed up too high, but that's the wrong way to solve any kind of problem
Chad Vanderbilt (Moptimus in Disguise) @ Jun 19th 2009 5:16PM
"I beat Peggle in 3 days."
great, now go back and get 100% on each stage, or use a different character for the stages, or beat all the challenges.
Clearing all stages /=/ beating the game
mr nimblewick @ Jun 19th 2009 5:28PM
I beat Shenmue in 3 days, and it didn't have any replay value. So Peggle has far more value from a game standpoint.
Chad Vanderbilt (Moptimus in Disguise) @ Jun 19th 2009 5:34PM
you could always go back and look for more sailors
Skaz @ Jun 20th 2009 3:40AM
Finding sailors > Peggling(?)
garrett @ Jun 19th 2009 4:42PM
then reviewers shouldn't be a problem cuz casual gamers don't read game reviews and will buy games regardless. i sense a paradox in the context.
fred @ Jun 19th 2009 4:42PM
How you're doing it is fine. You keep us up to date on interesting things regardless of what stupid category like casual and hardcore they're in.
Ghaleon @ Jun 19th 2009 4:42PM
Maybe reviews should talk more about how fun games are (or are not) instead of checklisting shit that doesn't affect how you enjoy the game.
Ipsum @ Jun 19th 2009 4:46PM
This. The main drive of any game developer should be fun, so why review it for anything else?
DarrenHollywood @ Jun 19th 2009 5:11PM
If we had signatures, I would quote you in mine.
gonintendo @ Jun 19th 2009 4:43PM
It depends really. I don't give a rat's ass about a game like imagine babiez, but cool new casual games can be fun for gamers too (like lumines)
Roto13 @ Jun 19th 2009 4:44PM
Cover Wii Fit Plus, ignore Deca Sports 2.
Also, gimme Lost Winds 2 plz k thx. The first one didn't have a real ending.
Yi @ Jun 19th 2009 4:45PM
the fact that my 12-year old lil sister is enjoying her casual gaming on the wii doesn't make my own gaming on the wii & ps3 less enjoyable at all. I seriously dont see the problem of sharing the joy of gaming with the so called casual gamers. So cover both, joystiq!