Jack White: learning about music through Guitar Hero is 'depressing'

I really don't see their point. How else do they want people to find new music?

There were really only a few ways in the old days.

- You could just randomly buy music or buy new albums at stores.
- You could hear a song on tv or in a movie and like it.
- You could be at a friends house and they would play something and you would like it.

What's wrong with hearing it in a videogame?

Jack White is a pompous cock. Dude should focus on writing good songs rather than writing good riffs. The White Stripes are the Montross of today.

Why not take it to the other extreme and have a band release all their records soley on GH or RB DLC? (DEVO style with hopefully better results). Also, Joystiq your GH5 link doesn't work.

I agree. These types of games introduce kids to REAL music. Not that emo crap that is always on the radio(not an attack on fans of that music).

Excuse me, but I take time and effort to find emo bands.

oolz: maybe if you really listened to their music you would have a different perspective on it. good music actually requires you to think and pay attention to it. since their debut album in 1999 they have really evolved from pure garage rock and blur the lines between genres. and how many artists can write a song that intelligently uses the word "acetaminophen" in the chorus?

i would say Guitar Hero and Rockband are better ways to find music these days than the radio. if i hear someone say "disco stick" once more i will punch them

oh and Rolling Stone ranked Jack White as the 17th best guitarist of all time

Since when did Rolling Stone have a clue what they're talking about?

HAHA! I was thinking the same thing +1

Agreed, I've gotten to know a few bands through guitar hero. The game acts as a demo basically, and then you go buy the full album on amazon or itunes whatever. How is that bad/sad?

although i love Rock Band as much as anybody, i have to agree with Mr. White. in the 21st century digital age, people seem to no longer appreciate full albums, the thrill of discovering music through your local record store, through word of mouth, through live shows, or hell, even through terrestrial radio.

i'm all for different avenues of discovering music, but it's just kinda sad to see more tangible forms of music discovery (outside of digital distribution) fall by the way side.
i'm a sucker for the old school, much like Mr. White, what can i say?

the times they are a-becoming quite different, i guess.

Actually I'd say the opposite is true so I think Mr. White comes off sounding like a fucking luddite. Considering the lack of production he puts into his music, I'd say Luddite is quite accurate.

But for the sake of arguement, people no longer appreciate full albums? Part of me wants to agree with you but MUSICIANS haven't given a shit about full albums in a LOOOOOOOOOONG time. Since even in the 60s, the single was what mattered. You cut the single to drive the album. Acts that actually cared about an album instead of the song is, and always has been, less than 1% of the industry. You can't fault consumers for not being into the albums nowadays when the onus falls on bands to actually produce an album that actually feels like an album instead of a selection of songs.

The thrill of discovering music through your local record store? Dude, this is nice and all if you HAVE a local record store. Nowadays I find local music when I go in to buy new strings or I've run out of picks. For most of america, the concept of the record store hasn't been around for MOST of the current consumers lifespans. Unless you count Walmart as a record store, this is a pretty ignorant arguement to make.

Word of mouth is actually the most common way new music is being discovered nowadays. Except picture this, if you will. Once upon a time, you circle of friends was 10-20 people at most. Someone discovers somethign and spreads it about. In the information age, that small circle has LITERALLY turned into thousands upon thousands of people. My friends and I have no problem discovering new music.

Live Shows are a joke nowadays. If you're not getting into an overbooked small venue, you're walking through booth after booth of merch dealers and Amp'd promo displays. I quit going to lives because you pay too much for too little.

Terrestrial Radio was, is, and always will be a joke. Want to hear the latest Aerosmith single? Listen to the radio. Want to hear a cut from a Refreshments album that wasn't a single? Look to your own collection.

Frankly, times are changing and that CAN be frightening. But just think... once upon a time a priest was required to make his own copy of the bible by hand. Printing press changed that tradition. We are on the verge of a new music industry and people like Mr. White sit in a rocking chair and lust for the good ol'days which were actually quit shit. You have more ways to reach consumers than ever before. All you gotta do is quit being such a luddite and embrace it.

I remember when Music Videos were going to kill the industry...

@Sheppy: while i agree with your statements and see your points, i was only saying that i miss the old way of doing things. before the digital age. that's all.

@Sheppy

Live shows are a joke? What are you talking about and what shows are you going to? I like supporting my local music scene, granted I have one of the biggest scenes in the country (Los Angeles) but still. I agree that festivals tend to be meh because you're paying $35+ to see a band for a half an hour.

Also there are many bands focused on full albums and they don't make up 1% of the industry. But of course you'd have to define what an album album is. Anyway kids don't put on a single record and listen to the whole thing anymore, they just skip over the non single tracks. How much of this is the fault of the new technology or the lack of attention span in youth is not clear.

As for social networking turning your friend pool into a list thousands strong, well that's a rant for a different day.

@Sheppy

What are you talking about bands don't care about albums?

The Decemberists and Green Day both just released Rock Operas of all things. Certainly The Decemberists are more niche than Green Day, but they still charted 14 on Billboard when the album came out, and stayed at the top of iTunes for a while. While Green Day came out charting at number 1. So it's not like two bands who don't matter whatsoever. Same can be said about Animal Collective's Merriweather Post Pavilion, they all came out condemning leaks because one wasn't experiencing the whole album.

I don't think it's musician's that don't care about making an album, I think it's the masses who don't care to listen to it. Plus the popular musicians who couldn't make a proper album if they tried.

And what are you talking about? I've never been to a live show like that. That sounds far more like a music festival than an actual show. Which are two different things, in a sense.

I don't think White was trying to say, experiencing the music in the game is fine...but some kids will just understand it differently. In a media where it's just you and the music, and nothing else, it's a more intimate situation where you actually can listen to the music if you concentrate on it. Paying attention to what had to be done to make the song or album. While if you're playing a song, and you beat it easily, people tend to get a pompously big head about it and be like pfft that was easy and that song sucks. You don't really try to understand why the song is great, or how it is actually difficult in real life, you're more focused on playing the game, less on the song itself. Not to say everyone is like this, but I know almost every one of my friends is, and I know most of the time when I'm playing guitar or drums I don't really even care about the song, more about winning.

@Charlie

I don't see your point about singles versus albums. I buy good albums, and if good albums don't exist, singles will suffice.

@Monkeydog: +1 for mentioning The Decemberists. Hazards of Love is win.

charlie b:
I'm sorry but some of your comments are a short sighted as White and Page's.

I discover new music all the time through the almost brilliant iTunes (I'd prefer lower quality longer clips though). Some days I'll just click around it and check out bands albums I've never heard of and have bought dozens of albums the past 6 months this way. Also online radio systems like last.fm and Pandora have done a great job introducing me to new artists and sounds. Something terrestrial and to a lesser extent, satellite, radio can't.

Record stores are useless (hence why they're disappering). Unless you're swimming in money or one hell of a loner the gross majority of the population would never have walked into a store and randomly pulled out a tape, lp or CD from a band you never heard of, have no recommendation of and took it home.

What these guys aren't thinking about is how games like GH/RB bring people so much closer to their music than the average record buyer, or radio listener. People learn the lyrics, people appreciate the complexity and artistry of the arrangements and have a better chance of feeling the music in this way than through their crappy little car stereo on static filled FM radio. Most importantly, it keeps some classic stuff people would never otherwise hear, alive!

Is it as deep as a music appreciation course in university? No, but for the average joe, who loves music but isn't about to devote their life to it, it makes them a better, more informed and appreciative fan. For kids, this increases the chance they'd become involved at the next level of music.

I know through the last (almost) 2 years of playing RB drums, I would love to get a real set and dork around with a band, but my reality is... 1) I'm married and in my mid 30's, I know no-one who knows how to play anything who actually has time. 2) I don't really have anywhere to put a real set (though I could just swap the brain on the ION I suppose and get 80% there) and 3) I don't really have the time to do it either on a regular enough basis for it to make any sense.

The fact I can get close, without having to deal withour rearranging my life and dealing with band-drama is fine for me. I have no aspirations to become a rock star.

I agree with you Monkeydog. When I play these games, I play songs that sound good to my ears, but I don't really pay attention to anything else but the instrument that I'm playing in game. I'm focused and concentrated on winning. It's not the same as me listening to albums for pleasure. When I'm listening for pleasure, I tend to notice the different instruments, pay attention to the meaning of the lyrics, and overall try to understand the meaning and emotion behind the song. GH or RB will never give that experience to anyone.

I find it disturbing that you're calling someone else "talentless" and a "twat". But then again you probably like Brittney Spears or some idiotic rapper with the word "boy" in his name...

Onto the actual discussion. I think Jack has a good point. Also, look at the way the songs have gone steadily downhill since the release of the first GH. It came out pretty metal and since III it's gone more and more mainstream. Some of the songs on there pretty much sicken me just trying to get through them.

@Charmed: yes, because heaven forbid people who don't like metal are allowed to get in on the fun.

@ Charmed

you're not one of those dumbasses are you? you know the type... "the music i listen to is better then anything you listen to" or the classic "i know what real good music sounds like"... anyways you prob listen to avenged sevenfold and think you are the most hardcore kid around

Yes. Simpsons, episode 380.

What's the name of the episode?

The Hardest Simpson to Simpson, a play on the song title "The Hardest Button To Button"

I am mistaken according to Wikipedia, the episode is called "Jazzy and the Pussycats".

Yup.. and this is exactly why Rush will endure long after the White Stripes are forgotten.

You know what's funny? Jimmy Page says that this would ruin the integrity of Zep's music.

I had to sit though Shrek 3 for a younger sibling, and they DESTROYED Zep's Immigrant Song. Led Zeppelin's Integrity has already been ruined, if you have heard THAT version.

Trust me, it's not about the integrity. They just haven't thrown out a high-enough number yet.

It's not even a new medium really. It's a form of game soundtrack, just that the soundtrack is involved in the game now. Talented musicians need to realize could never play half of these songs without years of practice, which most of us can't give. But we can sit down and pretend that we can play them on a video game.

Mr. White please stop trying to take yourself so seriously. Mr. Page gets a pass for being in one of the greatest bands of all time.

"and for people as young as the Whites..."

Jack White will be 34 in a few weeks.
just saying.

"hacks (in my opinion) from the White Stripes"

jack is one of my favorite singer/guitarists. meg is a below average drummer though. she's good for setting a decent beat, but she's nothing special. and for page's comment, i will agree, and add that john bonham is the greatest drummer ever (in my honest opinion). its sad that he died so early.

The problem is the learning curve. I'd say anyone could pick up a real guitar and learn a simple three chord song, but that's not nearly as exciting as "playing" the tunes on a music game.

GH or RB does absolutely NOT translate into any exceptional ability to play real guitar/bass. Perhaps for drums, but that's it.

The drums can teach you limb independance, give you 'muscle memory', and allow you to work on stick control. The same kinds of things you could have learned by playing pillows on your bed. This has been accepted as good training for a long time. I can't imagine why Jimmy can't make the connection at least for drums.

Certainly I understand where he's coming from with the guitar, It doesn't teach you any truely usable skills. If you get into a piece of music beacuse you enjoyed playing it in the game though whats wrong with that?

"GH or RB does absolutely NOT translate into any exceptional ability to play real guitar/bass"

Maybe not guitar, but bass? Sure it does. Builds finger speed and dexterity, and since most bass is only played on one string at a time, the strumming could do a decent job of emulating playing on a bass, especially if you strum the proper way (which I know not most people would, but still.)

While I think that guitar hero could build, as Shadow El said, finger dexterity, but beyond that, I don't know. I play the bass a bit, and frankly, the strumming technique I use for guitar hero (coming from someone who plays expert fairly well) is entirely different from an acceptable base strum. If you do a base strum on the guitar hero guitar, in my experience, the strum bar recoils down after the strum and causes a down strum in addition to the up strum (hard to explain, try it on a peripheral, you'll see what I mean).

Nah, good point, I'll agree with that.

Man, when I see someone win a match at call of duty, I just think to myself, why doesn't that kid join the army.

/sarcasm

I think what critics fail to realize is that no one thought of Guitar Hero or Rock Band as training for a real instrument anyway. It's not as if someone would ever go "well, I'm a master of Guitar Hero, so there is no reason to learn a real instrument". If anything, Guitar Hero and Rock Band introduce kids to types of music they'd never have heard had it not been for the game, and makes them want to learn a real instrument.

My real instrument playing ability consists of being able to play 4 or so chords on the guitar, a few songs on the piano, and Mary Had a Little Lamb on the Sax. My ability as a kid to stick with any one instrument for more than a month (guitar especially. Strings raped my fingers) wasn't very good. A game like Guitar Hero may have given me that extra push I needed to stick with it, but since no game of the sort existed, I gave up music and dedicated my school years to sports (which turned out poorly, as it does in 90% of cases)

Hopefully Guitar Hero has been teaching kids that if you want to be good at something, you've got to stick with it for years. I know that people didn't become experts at the game over night.

Kid's like that would be great at guitar. I picked up a guitar after playing guitar hero. Despite the learning curve those kids that can hit every note on expert would have the perseverance to try and play those songs perfectly on a real guitar too. I was never the best at guitar hero but now i play some Rock Band and Guitar Hero songs on a real guitar than in the game.

This is the most common misconception this music games bring, playing music "for real" takes far more dedication and skill than the hardest song on expert mode ever will.

The sucess of these games is allowing people to live the FANTASY of playing an instrument and being in a band, which is a common thing for many who lack the skill to play the real thing. Like me.

and what's wrong with learning music from a new media? who cares where was the first place anyone heard a song, if they like the song and get interested and the artist's body of work, everybody wins.

i agree with shadow el. i was playing guitar before i got into guitar hero and later on rock band. i still can't play the guitar in those games on any higher difficulty than medium. but i can play bass really well on hard, and i started playing bass in real life. and it's not hard at all for me. i still can't tell if that's from me playing guitar for a year or two or if it's from the rock band speed training, but still.