Analyst: PlayStation Motion Controller better for core gamers than Natal

by Richard Mitchell { Jun 24th 2009 at 5:00AM }

Hey, remember that Gamasutra feature where Michael Pachter said Xbox Twitter was the greatest thing of E3? Yeah, well in that very same feature, Cowen and Company analyst Doug Creutz had some choice words for the PlayStation Motion Controller. Specifically, Creutz believes that while Project Natal may have gotten the bulk of E3 coverage, the PlayStation Motion Controller is the better peripheral for hardcore gamers.

"Natal appeared to me to be a technological solution in search of a problem," said Creutz. "I had a very hard time envisioning playing Modern Warfare 3 using Natal," he said, adding, "By contrast, I had a very easy time envisioning it (and enjoying it) using Sony's control/motion capture scheme." Creutz stated that Microsoft is likely trying to snag some of the Wii's casual marketshare -- "a difficult proposition given that you're essentially asking casual gamers to upgrade twice during the cycle," according to Creutz -- while Sony's device caters more to the core gaming demographic.

We must point out that neither Project Natal nor the PlayStation Motion Controller are finished products, so there's no telling how they might be implemented in future games. For example, there's no reason that Natal couldn't make use of both motion sensing and traditional control, similar to Sony's device. Furthermore, we'd say Sony is probably just as keen to capture some of the casual market as Microsoft.

Tags: analysis, doug-creutz, microsoft, natal, playstation-motion-controller, project-natal, sony

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)

Steven M @ Jun 24th 2009 5:08AM

Never, ever, ever would i play a game like modern warfare 3 with either natal or the playstation motion controller.

Mic2000 @ Jun 24th 2009 6:19AM

Indeed, all these motion controllers on PS2 - 3 and XBOX are just to reach a bigger target audience. I will not play so quickly with such a game controller, I would even feel ashamed...

Just make some good games, thank you!

United States of Generica @ Jun 24th 2009 6:46AM

Can't Natal look for glowing balls, like Sony's PS3 solution to motion controls?

Fafhrdd @ Jun 24th 2009 7:51AM

AMEN!!!!

Core gamers DON'T use motion control. Give me a controller over any motion crap.

I don't mean I will not use the motion crap time to time but when it comes to my "core" games, either will do the job.

Premature ejaculation man @ Jun 24th 2009 7:56AM

Headtracking. Voice commands.

What's wrong with those?

Levi @ Jun 24th 2009 8:07AM

Steve, I'd much rather use a pointing device for a shooter than an analog stick. So I dunno what you're talking about dude. And yes I'm a "core gamer."

Shooters are a big reason I can't wait for these things.

Steven M @ Jun 24th 2009 8:13AM

@ pre
Head tracking wouldn't really allow anything major that just couldn't have been assigned to a bumper or a button, plus when playing a faster paced game like cod online, moving your head around will just mess with your eyes a bit
Voice commands are already around, look at EndWar.
Natal and sony's motion cont. are great for lots of things, just not for hardcore or button-heavy games

@levi
Playing a game like cod or halo on multiplayer, and having to point at people on the screen, even a 50" is still gonna be tough to accurately aim for longer shots or sniping, is a lot worse than an analog stick

Premature ejaculation man @ Jun 24th 2009 8:37AM

Why does it have to be applied to fast paced games? This way of thinking is why you suggest it would be better applied to a button. Something so run and gun, say a FPS stealth game, could use head tracking with greater accuracy than a bumper could by using a larger area for leaning (including peaking over and under [though under would be silly ;p]).

Furthering the stealth FPS example, it could be applied for distracting purposes. Why press a button to make a noise when you could make the distracting noise, where you can gauge how much noise you make?

To counter myself, I don't think developers will explore these ideas too much unless there is massive adoption, high demand and publisher motivation. Which I doubt.

Maxwell Ash @ Jun 24th 2009 9:02AM

"Why press a button to make a noise when you could make the distracting noise, where you can gauge how much noise you make?"

Because my annoying brother can't ruin my game with a button.

tmacairjordan87 @ Jun 24th 2009 9:13AM

Why doesn't steven have 3 hearts yet? First comment, and it sums up what core gamers feel. /thread as they say.

Haohmaru (PSN - DimmuBurgerKing XBL - A Real Puppet ) @ Jun 24th 2009 9:21AM

Eh, don't think of it in terms of "waggle," but as a pointer device. Something like the Sony motion controller could work as well as (or better than) a mouse for shooters. It seems pretty hit-or-miss, though; Red Steel was a horrible chore to play with the Wii Remote for various reasons, but the aiming/shooting in Metroid Prime: Corruption was just superb.

sc00by_y00 @ Jun 24th 2009 9:30AM

Im right there with you levi.

Why was time crisis so popular again ? Was it because you did the aiming and were pretty much bang on with accuracy ?

Mouse trumps the controller in terms of accuracy it always has done it always will do, properly implemented motion controls will trump the mouse.

I suggest you get your hands on time crisis again and play a few games and remember how well you can aim using your whole arms and shoulders rather than just your thumb.. Then play time crisis using your controller and realise how dumb and slow it is in comparison..

Look at the ps3 demo again watch the fluid movement notice when he has the gold desert eagle was it ? he moves around and is pretty accurate when he shoots, now imagine that level of control in mw3 or kz3 or whatever and you cant see the potential of this ? I want to know how he was moving around though, it would have been nice if they showed that as well properly..

Duke @ Jun 24th 2009 10:26AM

I think it would be more fun to play FPS games while using my fingers positioned like a gun and screaming "pew pew pew". Well, it was fun when I was a little kid at least.

Mr Khan @ Jun 24th 2009 11:37AM

I don't know about Natal, but if Sony's controller functions like Wii's IR sensor, but with better pinpoint accuracy as well as options for head-tracking and visual recognition, it'll blow other FPS schemes out of the water and into the stratosphere in terms of accuracy and responsiveness

PN04 @ Jun 24th 2009 11:39AM

"Can't Natal look for glowing balls, like Sony's PS3 solution to motion controls?"
It's Patented by sony, so no. When they ran afoul of the vibration patent and the ingame music pattent made it hard to offer the same thing on PS3 they decided to go hardcore with locking down their technology. They have patent documents for all sorts of motion controllers and other interactive devices.

CzAr @ Jun 24th 2009 11:51AM

Down voting is the same as up voting.

It alters the appearance of the context causing the reader to want to read why it was down voted.

Babel @ Jun 24th 2009 11:54AM

What about people like me, with incredibly shaky hands. I sometimes have difficulty aiming accurately on the Wii (admittedly never to a game-ruining extent), and with 1:1 motion tracking the problem might be even worse. Duel analogs are much, much easier for me, and I'd hate to see them replaced by motion control, especially in the case of aforementioned examples like Modern Warfare 3.

Hopefully motion control - which is great fun in small doses - can stay with the Wii, and the 360 and PS3 can use their own versions sparingly. That provides a good balance, methinks.

Jimbotron @ Jun 24th 2009 1:05PM

@tmacairjordan87: Because not all of us are so lazy that doing anything more than pushing some buttons is too much work.

While I wouldn't want to play all my games with Natal or Wii Motion Plus, some games can be much more fun and involving with them. And unlike a lot of gamers, I am not so sloth-like and lazy that I refuse to do anything but sit on my ass and push coloured buttons or buttons with shapes on them.

Michael K. @ Jun 24th 2009 1:06PM

I agree, I would probably try it once just to see what its like with a game like that, then go back to a normal controller

tmacairjordan87 @ Jun 24th 2009 2:31PM

It has nothing to do with being lazy, but everything to do with motion controls being pointless and impossible for real games.

Mike @ Jun 24th 2009 3:48PM

This is how Sony or Microsoft need to pull off a hardcore FPS

2 motion control wands with analog sticks and trigger buttons on them.
-Down to the mm accuracy and no lag.
-Each wand tracks an arm, so you can dual weild pistols and such. Maybe do a motion to throw a grenade and while still firing a pistol with the other hand.
- analog sticks for moving around and looking around. While aiming with the pointer wand thingy.
-head tracking from a camera so you can just walk up to the corner of a wall and peak your head around.

Give me that and Ill have a blast playing.

Muffin Lad @ Jun 24th 2009 5:08AM

and let the good times roll - flame on

UltimatePs3FANBOY @ Jun 24th 2009 5:10AM

Once again PS3 trumps 360 by thinking long term instead of a 'inventing' a stupid device that sony have already invented PS3 is the way forward that is what people should really have figured put by now

B3astofthe3ast @ Jun 24th 2009 5:12AM

Says UltimatePs3fanboy...

Shingo_E_X @ Jun 24th 2009 5:18AM

You mean like the Sixaxis? Oh wait, that was a device Nintendo already invented.

Yeah, it's only bad for *other* companies to do it. Gotcha. I'll remember to regard your posts as "pointless and stupid" from now on.

Snowblind @ Jun 24th 2009 5:33AM

PS3 Wand = Wii remote.

The only difference being how it also uses the EyeToy. Not sure how you can complain about Natal "already being invented" in contrast to Sony completely ripping off the Wii remote.

ragetek @ Jun 24th 2009 7:46AM

he means the eyetoy. motion capture gaming existed way before wii even came into the picture guys...

Sheppy (of the Fidlious Clan of Wong) @ Jun 24th 2009 8:33AM

First, the patent for SixAxis was filed a whole three months before PS2's (yes, PSTWO... as in filed in 1999) public debut. A tilt dongle was shown for PSP before we even know the next Nintendo console was called Nintendo Revolution, let alone Wii.

Second, this wand technology has been shown since the debut of the EyeToy. It's just been an ineffective solution. The new color changing technology and wands with tilt control hopes to improve that.

Regardless, WHO THE FUCK CARES WHO INVENTED WHAT?!?

The entire games industry is as good as it is BECAUSE companies are looking at what others did and trying to improve on it. There's only so many times someone can invent a new goddam wheel before they step back and say, "You know, Microsofts Wheel is pretty good but not perfect. Maybe we could try and improve on that?" If Wii was so goddam perfect, why are they fixing it with yet another strap-on in year three? If EyeToy was sooo perfect, why didn't EyeToy:Kinetic catch on the way WiiFit did?

It's like the whole Saints Row versus GTA arguement. Saints Row ripped off GTA, wha wha wha! Nevermind Saints Row addressed and fixed a ton of issues which, GUESS WHAT, lead to Rockstar North fixing those SAME issues in GTA4.

It amazesme. Most people sit back and yell how X ripped off Y without a frickin clue Y ripped off B a long fucking time ago. And all these people really do with these arguements is show WHY so many nongamers can't stand being around "core" gamers.

Spencer Schneider @ Jun 24th 2009 10:42AM

PS3 had the patent for what the wii did in 2002. Your right Sony took the time to mark it right not make it again( See Wii motion plus)

AwesomePossum @ Jun 24th 2009 5:37PM

"Regardless, WHO THE FUCK CARES WHO INVENTED WHAT?!?"
@Sheppy
The Fanboys care Sheppy...the fanboys...

stormtrooper190 PSN= (im not telling you that) @ Jun 24th 2009 9:20PM

its the PS eye that tracks the glowing microphones not the eyetoy! so its a hibrid if natal and super wiimotes

B3astofthe3ast @ Jun 24th 2009 5:12AM

I kinda like how its the middle ground between the Wii and natal.

mikazi @ Jun 24th 2009 6:08AM

But it is just the Wii Motion Plus with a ball attached to the end...

wallywallas @ Jun 24th 2009 6:31AM

Unless you consider that...

* You can wield 2 motion controllers at the same time, unlike 1 controller and a nunchuck,
* And you actually have to move your arms to play because the camera is tracking your body placement as well, instead of just laying on the couch and wagging your wiimote,

Yes it does seem to have more of a Wiinatal vibe...

I'm not demeaning either, i just think that it is more of a mix of the 2.

Spike @ Jun 24th 2009 6:47AM

@wallywallas

you know you could have 2 WM+'s, and have them track your arm movements 1:1
sony copied nintendo yet again, get over it

Dummy00001 @ Jun 24th 2009 7:35AM

"* And you actually have to move your arms to play because the camera is tracking your body placement as well, instead of just laying on the couch and wagging your wiimote,"

Nintendo also could have added the camera. But I think that majority of gamers prefer it on a couch.

And something tells me that PS3 Wand games would also utilize waggle to some extent. Waggle comes not from gamers, it comes from developers incapable of utilize the technology properly, or utilizing it for something it wasn't designed. Do not see how PS3 Wand can avoid that.

sc00by_y00 @ Jun 24th 2009 9:36AM

spike read Sheppy (of the Fidlious Clan of Wong) comment above this comment thread, before saying its just copying..

maveric101 @ Jun 24th 2009 1:32PM

if MS wanted to, it would be easy for them to add a handheld wand similar to the PS3's for better pointing (which would be incredibly useful for RTS games, making those more feasible on consoles). they could make it nearly the same as the PS3's controller with tilt sensors, or to make it cheaper they could make a wand with three spread-out LED's on the top, giving Natal 3 points of light to calculate the orientation/rotation of the wand.

Alistair Azimuth PSN: johnnynumber5 @ Jun 24th 2009 1:49PM

@maveric101

Yes it's possible they could something similar. But, the question then has to be asked what the point of making natal in the first place was. MS said at E3 the point of Natal was to remove the barrier of the controller for new gamers. It could also be confusing to consumers if some Natal games require the wands and some don't.

There isn't a technical limitation keeping it from happening but it completely goes against the reason they made Natal in the first place. If MS wanted to do that they didn't need to put as much as they did into the Natal itself. I'm also not sure if Sony has some sort of patent for their wand application with the tracking balls for a gaming input peripheral.

wallywallas @ Jun 24th 2009 1:52PM

@dummy00001 and maveric101

But that's the point. Were talking about what they have right now. If "MS wanted to" and if "Nintendo could've " are not valid discussion points. In that case, if Sony wanted, they could comeout with a PSEye that has the same functions as Natal, That simple.

But that's not the case here. IMO, it still feels like the Wands feel like they can be used for core gaming and still have a casual vibe to it. From specs i've seen, it looks like the wand are Dualshock controllers cut in half with a color globe on the top.

So yes, Wiinatal controllers is the vibe i get.

Demaar @ Jun 24th 2009 5:16AM

He has a poor imagination then. I can imagine it easily. You hold the controller like normal, you aim by pointing the controller where you want to shoot (targeting reticule follows), and pull the trigger to fire. Movement is still left stick, camera control is still the right stick. Lean left and right to lean around corners to have a quick look or maybe do a dodge to the side, duck down to actually duck.

I could go on, but you get my point. Man, no imagination.

ryanpaulmcgowan @ Jun 24th 2009 5:35AM

Yeah, leaning is fine and dandy. You can already do stuff like this with any controller that detects stuffs like that (Six-axis and Wii-mote). You don't need a camera to do that, although it's not ever used, primarily because leaning out of cover doesn't seem to be a major FPS trait... for some dumb reason.

Off topic real fast, anyone know why? I love leaning in CoD games.

Back on topic:

What the guy was saying is that without buttons, you're not really going to be doing anything extra-ordinary with Natal, and you've agreed with him.

Now, not that I agree that you'll be doing anything extra-ordinary with the Playstation Motion Controller, but you'll be able to do more with JUST that while having games that core gamers like to play built specifically for it. Which is pretty neat.

Overall I've been underwhelmed by both of these techs. A bit more excited for Sonys from a gaming perspective and interested to see what kind of security stuff Microsoft does with Natal in the future.

UltimatePs3FANBOY @ Jun 24th 2009 5:19AM

There is no denying i favour the PS3 but that is because the PS3 is the result of a company at the top of they game

Shaun @ Jun 24th 2009 5:31AM

LMAO!!!!

ragz175 @ Jun 24th 2009 6:16AM

I can name a million things Sony is doing wrong but I dont care to type them.

I'll give just one example. Ghostbusters movie rights is owned by Sony. They could have easily made this a PS3 exclusive (which they did a timed exclusive in some parts of the world) but the company is so fragmented that it does not work together.

If you love sony so much just ask the 16000 people who got laid off from sony how their lives were affected just so Sony could have a % increase in profits.

wallywallas @ Jun 24th 2009 6:35AM

Because Microsoft didn't fire a lot of people recently, right?

You're right, Sony has made mistakes ever since their lousy launch, to now with PSN instability; but Microsoft as a company has made some horrible decisions as well. Faulty manufacturing leading to RROD, to choosing HD-DVD are only some examples.

Every company makes mistakes, MS is not perfect.