Sony patents software-based PS2 CPU emulation
by Ben Gilbert 
{ Jun 29th 2009 at 9:30PM } 
While this patent could certainly suggest things to look forward to in the rumored PS3 Slim, we've been burned in the past and aren't exactly holding our breath. Maybe more possible, Sony's Eric Lempel said in February of last year that "There are possibilities through technology and software emulation to make that possible," speaking on the subject of downloadable PS2 titles -- rather than disc-based software support, mind you. If you're into the technical side of things, Siliconera was so gracious as to shoot us the whole patent, which you can see for yourself in the gallery below.
[Via Siliconera]
[Thanks, Bryan!]
Gallery: Sony Emotion Engine Emulation patent
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
tmmoore_nc @ Jun 29th 2009 9:35PM
They can already emulate the EE. The problem is the Graphics Synthesizer.
cypher19ign @ Jun 29th 2009 9:42PM
If I could quote for emphasis, I would. The software that allows for emulation of the EE on the Cell has already been written and used for the software backwards compatibility. The PS3s that allowed for backwards compatibility could do so because they still had the PS2's GS slapped onto the circuit board. After awhile, Sony cut that as well to further reduce costs, resulting in the current PS3 that does not have any PS2 backwards compatibility. Sony would have to write an emulator for the GS as well in order to have full software backwards compatibility.
Shaun @ Jun 29th 2009 10:02PM
The patent is probably for a new ps2 because sony just won't let go of the damn thing. sony, it's over, move on to the ps3 and try to sell that already.
Kill a mans jiro @ Jun 29th 2009 10:08PM
@ Shaun
PS2 Is still selling incredibly well and still making a profit, so WHY would they give up on such a thing?
On a side note, i hope we see some PS2 emulation soon there are a shit load of games id like to play on my P3
Copland @ Jun 30th 2009 12:26AM
@cypher19ign
Yeah.
If they can't emulate the GS,
it means that if the Slim PS3's are going to get PS2 BC,
it would be with the actual GS processor and EE emulation.
So that means current PS3(non-PS2 BC) users are not going to get
PS2 BC. They'll need to buy a new one.
Unless Sony emulates GS too.
But looking at the patents, it looks to me as if Sony's going to use the actual GS instead of emulation.
Buying a new one, in terms of money, I don't mind.
But the most painful thing is, there are some game save data that you can't copy what every you do... I think Kill Zone 2 is one of them.
And there are lots of others too.(Demons Soul is one more)
You can use the "backup feature" in the XMB, but you can only restore it to the same PS3 hardware. Not a different PS3.
Sony should definitely fix this. What if you want to buy a new PS3 instead of send it for repairs, but you can't move your precious save data to the new PS3...(Sorry of being O.T.)
PN04 @ Jun 30th 2009 1:20AM
The EE was what they removed first so this patent means nothing. it's the GS that needs to be emulated for ANY PS3 to play PS2 games again. This has nothing to do with the Slim PS3. Not a single thing so lets not bring that up again until it actually comes out. This patent is ancient for god's sake.
I have no doubt that they WILL eventually Emulate the GS so that we can buy PS2 games off the PSN store but that's not going to be until they retire the PS2.
Chewie @ Jun 30th 2009 2:46AM
Fancy writing for Joystiq? As clearly you have a better understanding than the clueless copy and paste artists that post "news" here...
Seriously Joystiq, whatever happened to checking the integrity of things before you publish them? As everyone is pointing out Software EE has been around on PS3 for years. It's GS emulation that's the sticking point...
DrXym @ Jun 30th 2009 3:29AM
People keep claiming the GS cannot be emulated as if that is some intractable issue, that the alleged bandwidth is insurmountable.
The reality is a lot of games don't push the GPU and those that do are constrained by the PS2's architecture. For example, games might continuously draw polys even if they obscured by later ones because its faster than Z clipping them. Other games might continuously load textures to the GS because of the limited of the texture buffer. Other games break polys down into triangles for rendering. Other games might split polys to work around memory page break issues. Other games might send substantially the same drawing instructions with each render. Or a combination of these things.
The PS3 has the horsepower to preprocess a lot of this junk. For example merging polys into meshes, or those crossing page breaks. Or of checksumming and caching textures rather than reloading.
There is a lot of stuff Sony could do as I'm sure they're aware. So let's not say its impossible to emulate the GS since it's not true.
davivman @ Jun 30th 2009 9:46AM
The patent application is claiming priority to a provisional patent application that was filed Dec. 19, 2007. Since US patent laws allow applicants 1 year from making an invention publicly available (e.g., selling products) to file an application before losing your rights, Sony could have begun selling products related to this invention as early as Dec. 19, 2006. Since the 80 GB version of the PS3 that included software emulation was released in March 2007, it is most likely that this patent application refers to the software emulation present on that older 80 GB version and not some new software that is going to be released.
KillaChaos @ Jun 30th 2009 11:11AM
Lets not forget the PCSX2 has been emulating the GS and EE extremely well on x86 systems for some time now.
CH3BURASHKA @ Jun 29th 2009 9:35PM
Um, WTF is that? That shop is atrocious. Not that I have better skills, but damn...
tobz1000 @ Jun 29th 2009 9:38PM
I think that's the point. Would you take a realistic picture seriously?
Jack Tretton @ Jun 29th 2009 9:48PM
"Would you take a realistic picture seriously?"
Who takes *any* of this shit seriously?
WREturns @ Jun 29th 2009 10:01PM
Fuck you, Tretton! I saw your E3 keynote! You take this shit more seriously than anyone!
Gun Barrier @ Jun 29th 2009 9:38PM
Oh PLEASE let this mean that they can get ps2 BC working on ALL ps3's soon!
ArchiGamer @ Jun 29th 2009 9:40PM
Your missing some pleas, here you go:
Oh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this mean that they can get ps2 BC working on ALL ps3's soon!
sony boy @ Jun 29th 2009 9:52PM
i was just wondering, coudn't they just have an option to sell ps2 emulators on psn??? I don't know too much about hacking and stuff so call me an idiot for asking.
PN04 @ Jun 30th 2009 1:23AM
No this means nothing, they only pattented the technique that they were using in the old 80gbs. this has nothing to do with any new application because they still need to emulate the PS2s Graphics Synthesizer.
Also they wouldnt need to "sell" an emulator, they'd just make it part of the Firmware work the "value added" angle they've always talked about.
Cj @ Jun 29th 2009 9:38PM
This would be fantastic as seeing as how I wasnt full backwards compatibility but finding a PS3 capable of such is near impossible/expensive. Please do it Sony. So I can buy a PS3 worry free.
LordToastington @ Jun 29th 2009 10:42PM
I agree. I'm so close to buying a PS3, and if universal backwards compatibility came to pass, I'd finally break down.
Longhorn of Myon [PSN: MariusElijah] @ Jun 29th 2009 9:38PM
eh i posted this to argue with whylekat
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/29/best-buy-selling-80gb-ps3-with-littlebigplanet-and-wall-e/#comments
but good news indeed for all those people bitching about BC
EGOvoruhk @ Jun 29th 2009 10:00PM
To me, this was the best bundle: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5303673
60GB PS3, free game, free remote, and 5 free Blu-rays for $500. Also, because of the 60GB, it was all the BC you could eat. None of the limitations of the 80GB and all the others that aren't fully backwards compatible
Cj @ Jun 29th 2009 10:13PM
Wow great bundle! But its sold out :( I got excited.
TheDemiurge @ Jun 29th 2009 11:00PM
Similar to the deal that I got on my PS3. It's a 60 gig and I got Heavenly Sword for free for $500.00. No remote though.
Courtney @ Jun 30th 2009 2:32AM
That 60gb bundles was likely the closeout sale for that sku. I got a similar deal, but opted for a second controller instead of the game, as Best Buy's choices for the free game at the time were horrible.
libertine @ Jun 29th 2009 9:40PM
I'm guessing around August we'll see new firmware (with BC), the Slim PS3 revealed officially, a price cut and a GT5 release date in time for the holidays..
Old_Snake @ Jun 29th 2009 9:40PM
I don't particularly mind the lack of BC for my PS3 since I still have a fully functional PS2 to use for my PS2 titles. However, for the sake of convenience it would be nice to 'retire' my PS2 to the closet with a PS3 with PS2 BC.
That and it would make it easier to put PS2 titles on the PSN too I assume
ArchiGamer @ Jun 29th 2009 9:41PM
I hope this happens, I really don't like to plug in my PS2, PS3, and Wii to my TV.
Fakeplasticball @ Jun 29th 2009 9:42PM
Playstation 2 Originals®!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!
tmacairjordan87 @ Jun 29th 2009 9:46PM
For only $15 more than they cost in stores now!
DangerMouse @ Jun 29th 2009 9:55PM
I like the PS1 games sitting at 6 dollars, which is nice considering the overpriced games that VC has to offer. But i can see the PS2 games ranging from 15-20, which, imo, is too much. I wonder if they're ever re-enable PS2 emulation in future PS3's, since they have much more to gain by selling digital copies rather than giving the consumer the opportunity to get the game for 5 bucks at Gamestop. Also, the damage has already been done, a lot of people still have no idea that PS1 discs still work on the PS3. Reversing it would make brains explode.
The Baron @ Jun 29th 2009 9:43PM
The PS3-man looks suspiciously like he's in blackface.
I hope they open up backwards compatability to everyone, but I'm not too hopeful. I have a stack of cheaply bought PS2 games that I'd love to play upscaled on my 40GB.
They've stated before that they're not interested in putting in the effort for backwards compatability because theyve nothing to gain from it, so hopefully if they make the code for full PS2 downloads they'll open it up to everyone because they already did the hard work.
greg (peevmyster) @ Jun 29th 2009 9:45PM
I hope they make them cheap asses who watied for the price to drop to get a PS3 pay for this, not much, but at least 20 bucks.
DangerMouse @ Jun 29th 2009 9:50PM
That's the spirit!!!
Longhorn of Myon [PSN: MariusElijah] @ Jun 29th 2009 9:51PM
mmmk?
Sly @ Jun 29th 2009 10:17PM
it's easy, mmkay?
sorry, it's an in-joke with friends... i have to say that whenever i hear/read "mmk"
Bradwart @ Jun 30th 2009 12:22AM
So because I still paid 500 for a non BC 160GB console, the same price as the 20GB launch console, I should have to cough up an additional 20 bucks or more? What? Sorry if I didn't buy a PS3 immediately because it said 'PlayStation' on the box. I bought one after it had enough quality exclusives to justify 500. (didn't have an HDTV until I bought the PS3, so Blu-Ray wasn't a system seller in my case.)
Emperor_Den_Den @ Jun 30th 2009 5:19AM
lol sly thats from the south park movie
Mr Khan @ Jun 29th 2009 9:54PM
the first comment here is the most significant. EE emulation has already been done, the Graphics Synthisizer is the sticking point.
Wildside @ Jun 29th 2009 9:59PM
sure BC is very much welcomed, but to me, the upscaling of all the PS2 my family used on our 60GB PS3 before it bricked didnt seem pleasing to look at. Then again, we hardly played PS2 games on it anyways since we have a couple of PS2s.
Professor Lario @ Jun 29th 2009 10:06PM
I am working through Metal Gear Solid 2 and it looks substantially better with the filter on. I think the top tier games show noticeable improvement.
Wardo @ Jun 29th 2009 10:05PM
Well this doesn't really affect me much since I have a 60GB PS3 but it would be nice to see the PS3 Slim(if it is real) have BC just in case my PS3 broke.
AngelMayLaugh @ Jun 29th 2009 10:33PM
It would be a serious slap in the face if the slim had BC and the current models didn't. It would be total bullshit to ignore everyone that bought non BC models.
Gerik @ Jun 30th 2009 1:18AM
I just clocked 100+ hours playing through Persona 4 on my launch PS3. It was great. If the PS3 Slim has backwards compatibility, that's a day 1 purchase for me.
Kill a mans jiro @ Jun 29th 2009 10:06PM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f22/nachosforever2/Fail%20and%20Win/detecting_win.jpg
Shingo_E_X @ Jun 29th 2009 11:20PM
It's stupid for Sony to include free BC when $100 PS2s are flying off shelves. Considering the money they're having with PS3, they need all the extra $$$ they can get.
Sure, I'd love to see BC back, but think realistically for a change. They're a business, and they're in it to make, not lose, money.
TheManick @ Jun 29th 2009 11:34PM
True, but if you think about it, if they release a software emulation for all PS3's to use, nothing would be stopping them from listing PS2 titles on the PS store. Considering the success of PS1 titles on the PS store, think about PS2 games which they could probably list for around $10-$20.
This would help Sony make money off of PS2 game sales, because let's be honest, most people buy those used because there are so many copies out there. This would net them more cash imo, not to mention the people without the launch PS3's that have been craving backwards compatibility will be pleased and it will probably help push some new PS3's off the shelf for people still on the fence about buying one. Win win situation.
PN04 @ Jun 30th 2009 1:34AM
Yes they're a business, that's why they sell 4 hundred dollar game systems. If you can include something in the box that you were planning to include at some point anyway then you;d DO it wouldnt you? I firmly believe that sony's plan from the beginning was to slowly reduce the need for the PS3 hardware i the motherboard but keep PS2 compatibility. The arguments about price and people bitching that they bought PS3s to play PS3 games made Sony remove the chips ahead of their timeline to reduce the price and make people realize that there was a PS3 library worth paying attention to. So at this point it's just a matter of waiting for them to get to the milestone that would allow them to include full software emulation of PS2 games in a free FW update, and suddenly open up the PSN store to PS2 games which I'm sure would go for 15 bucks or so, and make them plenty more money than trying to sell emulation. That's the the way you run a buisness.
Evi1d33d @ Jun 29th 2009 11:22PM
If a PS2 emulator (PCSX2) can play FFX and FF12 full speed on a decent PC then I don't see why Sony can't get it working on the 40GB PS3. Stop milking the PS2 sales and give us software BC.
deanb @ Jun 29th 2009 11:33PM
PCSX2 always did sake me pause for thought on how Sony didn't have software emulation on PS3 yet. This is a team of programmers who don't have intimate knowledge with the PS2 making a bloody decent emulator for a fair chunk of PS2 games ( at least hte ones that count :D).
But Sony, who made the PS2, don't seem to be able to use a their 3.2ghz 8-core processor do it.
Still PCSX2 is why I don't weep for PS3 BC, cos I can just run it on my PC, and in decently upscaled HD, where it doesn't just make the resolution higher(like PS1 BC) but renders the 3D polys out at a higher resolution making FFX look stunning.