Hands-on: Red Steel 2
We stopped by Ubisoft's San Francisco offices late last week to spend more time with its upcoming Nintendo platform lineup. Although we'd played many of the same games -- at the same stage of development -- during E3, now was the time to really focus on details. So, first up was Red Steel 2, a game that initially had us smitten with its manga-esque East-meets-West visual style, but failed to impress once we took hold of its controls.
So, once again, we were faced with the extremely short demo / gameplay primer Ubisoft had created for last month's trade show. This second look didn't leave us any more enamored with the mix of sword slashing and pistol shooting, but we were able to get a better idea of exactly what didn't feel right. At the same time, we came away even more impressed by the game from a visual standpoint than when we'd first seen it in action.
So, once again, we were faced with the extremely short demo / gameplay primer Ubisoft had created for last month's trade show. This second look didn't leave us any more enamored with the mix of sword slashing and pistol shooting, but we were able to get a better idea of exactly what didn't feel right. At the same time, we came away even more impressed by the game from a visual standpoint than when we'd first seen it in action.
Gallery: Red Steel 2 (Wii)
Let there be no doubt about it: Red Steel 2 is easily one of the best-looking games in the pipeline for Wii. This partly has to do with the visual style itself, one that, like MadWorld's, is light on detail and realism but is heavily stylized. The developer has gone for a clean look, rather than try to force the system to pull off a highly realistic style it is simply not equipped to. The other part is framerate; locked at 60fps, the game is sharp and fast.
Given that it's designed to work exclusively with Wii MotionPlus -- the game's producer, Jason Vandenberghe, says the game was in development before Ubisoft learned of the add-on, and that it changed the design considerably -- we expected (as was hyped just before we played) the ultimate video game sword fighting experience. Yet, for the touted 1:1 accuracy of MotionPlus, we were surprised at just how "canned' the swordplay felt.
We spent several minutes swinging the katana and trying to figure out exactly what the MotionPlus was doing. It was clear that the sword wasn't replicating our every movement with the Wiimote. In fact, there seemed to be only seven set angles to strike at: 12 o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock and three o'clock; 11 o'clock, 10 o'clock and nine o'clock. Striking also seemed to require a considerably strong (and tiring) swinging motion, but this is something that may be addressed via a sensitivity setting.
Beyond the letdown of the swordplay's feel, we found the precision of the combat's pistol component to be very good -- it's a shame that there's not more to shoot at. During the demo, we encountered less than a dozen enemies, all of which looked nearly identical, the only major difference being that some were wearing armor and others weren't. Killing the latter was more difficult simply for the fact that we had to knock off their armor first.
Holding the A button put us into guard mode, locking the blade in place vertically or horizontally, depending on how we'd been holding it before pressing the button. Deflecting bullets this way was a treat and blocking the enemies' sword attacks (sometimes vertical, sometimes horizontal) felt good, too. But, really, it all boiled down to mindlessly slashing at enemies until they didn't get back up.
The end-of-demo boss -- a variant of the stock enemy wielding a giant hammer -- was defeated the same way in-between dashes to avoid his swings and get into position behind him (his weak spot).
To say the areas within the level we played -- as well as the actual gameplay itself -- were repetitive would be a huge understatement. Red Steel 2 looks amazing, but unless the final game's levels offer up more varied gameplay the experience risks being amazingly dull.
Given that it's designed to work exclusively with Wii MotionPlus -- the game's producer, Jason Vandenberghe, says the game was in development before Ubisoft learned of the add-on, and that it changed the design considerably -- we expected (as was hyped just before we played) the ultimate video game sword fighting experience. Yet, for the touted 1:1 accuracy of MotionPlus, we were surprised at just how "canned' the swordplay felt.
We spent several minutes swinging the katana and trying to figure out exactly what the MotionPlus was doing. It was clear that the sword wasn't replicating our every movement with the Wiimote. In fact, there seemed to be only seven set angles to strike at: 12 o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock and three o'clock; 11 o'clock, 10 o'clock and nine o'clock. Striking also seemed to require a considerably strong (and tiring) swinging motion, but this is something that may be addressed via a sensitivity setting.
Beyond the letdown of the swordplay's feel, we found the precision of the combat's pistol component to be very good -- it's a shame that there's not more to shoot at. During the demo, we encountered less than a dozen enemies, all of which looked nearly identical, the only major difference being that some were wearing armor and others weren't. Killing the latter was more difficult simply for the fact that we had to knock off their armor first.
Holding the A button put us into guard mode, locking the blade in place vertically or horizontally, depending on how we'd been holding it before pressing the button. Deflecting bullets this way was a treat and blocking the enemies' sword attacks (sometimes vertical, sometimes horizontal) felt good, too. But, really, it all boiled down to mindlessly slashing at enemies until they didn't get back up.
The end-of-demo boss -- a variant of the stock enemy wielding a giant hammer -- was defeated the same way in-between dashes to avoid his swings and get into position behind him (his weak spot).
To say the areas within the level we played -- as well as the actual gameplay itself -- were repetitive would be a huge understatement. Red Steel 2 looks amazing, but unless the final game's levels offer up more varied gameplay the experience risks being amazingly dull.









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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
phillipsteak @ Jul 7th 2009 12:34PM
seems like m+ isnt working as well as nintendo hyped it up to be
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 12:41PM
so WM+ is fail because the developers didn't feel like using 1:1 sword play?
bm @ Jul 7th 2009 12:46PM
lol well he obviously had his judgment ready way before WM+ even came out. If he actually cared to have a worthwhile opinion he'd have looked at some already released games that use it to great effect.
Jimbotron @ Jul 7th 2009 12:48PM
"is fail"? That s what passes as good grammar these days. Truly, truly sad. Next time trying something like "is a failure". You'l find you come across less tool-like that way.
ilovethewaggle @ Jul 7th 2009 12:49PM
or maybe developers arent taking full advantage of m+, the game was partially developed and then adapted to work with m+ so thats a strike against them already. they should have started over again from stage one after they learned of the m+. I'm still burned by ubisoft after buying shaun white and discovering there's no goofy support.
BananaBoat @ Jul 7th 2009 12:51PM
"next time trying"
Oh god the irony.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 12:56PM
cool story brah
http://fast1.onesite.com/fans.wwe.com/user/orion./00b289373ac0de51522e861803b280c5.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/ugotmercd/Cool_story_bro_inc.jpg?t=1246985733
Captain Planet @ Jul 7th 2009 1:21PM
@ Jimbotron
Welcome to the Internet.
Matisyahu Serious @ Jul 7th 2009 1:22PM
lets let wii sports resort be the judgment call on wm+
i love it in tiger, but i want to see a first-party title really do it justice....or not.
Ravnos @ Jul 7th 2009 1:26PM
@BananaBoat: The ironing is delicious.
WREturns @ Jul 7th 2009 1:30PM
Jimbotron,
Try using apostrophes before you critique the grammar of others. Also, "Truly, truly sad." is a sentence fragment, not a sentence.
phillipsteak @ Jul 7th 2009 2:30PM
i'm in no way a nintendo hater, and in fact used to be a wii only owner; however, from much of the feedback i've heard so far, it doesn't offer the amount of preciseness nintendo hyped it to be. i'm just saying, nintendo hyped it up to be this whole scene changer and the impact it has created has been less than just the announcement of natal.
phillipsteak @ Jul 7th 2009 2:31PM
oh and R.I.P. Billy Mays :'(
sam @ Jul 7th 2009 7:17PM
@philip: so how much 'impact', in terms of actual genuine commercial-release games, or even (like this) previews of those games, have you seen from Natal?
That's right, none, no impact at all. Even if Red Steel 2's swordplay is only fractionally less shitty than Red Steel 1's swordplay, that's still more impact than Natal has had so far.
If you mean more theoretical impact, more people talking about it, etc, then yes a totally new system using a largely new method of interaction (camera not new, 3d camera new for major game system) got more discussion than an enhancement that makes an existing controller work better - big surprise there.
Natal may be fantastic but it hasn't had an impact *yet*. When it comes out, I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity to see what exciting things it can do (and probably, that some companies will also use it to make shitty games that aren't any better than with a traditional controller). Maybe there will be a Red Steel Natal and maybe it will have eight sword angles instead of seven in the Motion Plus version. Whatever. Let's judge it then. For now, it's ridiculous to compare it to MotionPlus in any way.
MotionPlus games need to be compared against other MotionPlus games and previous Wii games, not an unproven prototype control system, on a totally different console platform, that's still far from release.
(I am not dissing Natal at all - it may turn out to be great for certain types of game - there is just no point whatsoever in bringing it up in this context.)
In this case, kind of sounds like swordfighting in Red Steel 2 isn't as good as in Wii Sports Resort. That's relevant. And the rest of the game sounds pretty crappy too, graphics aside. That's relevant, too. No need for random fanboy splooges about other unreleased systems when we have relevant facts.
[tre] @ Jul 7th 2009 12:35PM
Let's hope it's better in the final game... I was actually kinda interested in it, for the fact that it probably will be able to do what the first one didn't.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 12:37PM
The screenshots looks pretty sweet. But I messed around with WM+ the other day at the local Best Buy. Didn't seem to do much more that the Wii Remote does by itself.
tmacairjordan87 @ Jul 7th 2009 12:44PM
That seems to be a common complain i'm seeing with most motion + games, that it doesn't seem to do much more than normal. Kinda defeats the point of having it doesn't it?
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 12:45PM
were you playing Tiger Woods 2010? If so, did you try to compare how it worked with motion+ and without?
Jimbotron @ Jul 7th 2009 12:49PM
Then you didn't mess around with it enough.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 12:51PM
Thanks Jimbo. I didn't know you were fucking there.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 12:53PM
I played both Tiger and Grand Slam Tennis. WM+ didn't vastly improve my experience on either. I guess I've just adapted to the regular Wii Remote controls.
bm @ Jul 7th 2009 12:59PM
I find it highly amusing that Tmac is no different from the way he's always been. I guess he didn't even need to try and pretend for his "experiment".
Anyway, I'm guessing none of you big hardcore gamerz have actually tried, for example, the frisbee golf game in Tiger Woods. Hell, I was skeptical myself, expecting a lot of lag from what I'd seen in the videos. But the hand with the frisbee follows every move of your hand, you can throw it any way you want, and it works perfect and lag-free. In fact I liked it a lot better than the actual golf, because it's so simple yet so realistic and immediate.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 1:00PM
heres what you need to do
go back to Best Buy, walk up to the Tiger Woods kiosk (or whatever they have), exit out of golf, enter Disc Golf, remove Motion+, move your hand around (your hand, not your arm) like a crazy person, put Motion+ back in, repeat step 6
Vidikron @ Jul 7th 2009 1:03PM
I have to say that I'm pretty impressed with Tiger Woods 2010 on the Wii. I started playing it over the holiday weekend and it is a lot of fun. The golf isn't always a perfect 1:1, but if you want to see how the potential of the WM+ try out the disc golf. It tracks your hand movement nearly perfectly.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 1:04PM
@bm That's because people don't buy Tiger Woods GOLF to throw a damned frisbee. Who cares how accurate it is mesauring your grip on a plastic disc? It's supposed to increase the realism involved when swinging your virtual golf club, especially when trying to putt.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 1:08PM
go back to Wii Sports Golf and try putting
now go to Tiger Woods and try putting
which is better? *Hint: Its the latter*
tmacairjordan87 @ Jul 7th 2009 1:09PM
I fail to see what I did wrong just now.... I've been hearing that a lot on joystiq/kotaku and the weekly 1up podcast I listen to, among other places.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 1:11PM
It's the same for me Moptimus. Like I said, and I'm not going to argue all day, but it's the same effect for me. Like any other game you play after a while, you compensate for the technology not being 1:1 with your real movements. And it obviously differs from game to game. I have high hopes for Wii Sports Resort. Someone on here said that it works great. But even Joystiq has further video testimonial proof that the WM+ hasn't 100% cut it so far. And for me, my personal hands-on time the other day reaffirmed those claims.
Vidikron @ Jul 7th 2009 1:11PM
"It's supposed to increase the realism involved when swinging your virtual golf club, especially when trying to putt."
It actually does that pretty well too, just make sure the swing style is set to "Advanced" and putting set to "Precision Putting". For example, I discovered that I have a natural draw to my swing and I have to either adjust my aim or concentrate while swinging to avoid it... never have I had to deal with anything like that in a golf game. When putting you have to watch the face of the putter to make sure you don't accidently push the ball off center. I've never had to deal with either of those in a golf game before and it really adds a lot to the game. Of course, all this isn't to say that I don't miss the beautifully rendered courses the other systems can produce... it's shame the Wii can't deliver both experiences.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 1:15PM
I'll have to check out those setting Vid. I didn't realize it was all that....Thanks.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 1:16PM
"But even Joystiq has further video testimonial proof that the WM+ hasn't 100% cut it so far."
link plz?
Matisyahu Serious @ Jul 7th 2009 1:20PM
in what game?
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 1:24PM
It was actually Engadget.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/30/wii-motionplus-impressions-it-works-but-so-far-the-games-aren/
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 1:26PM
"But even Joystiq has further video testimonial proof that the WM+ hasn't 100% cut it so far. "
really? Your link says otherwise
now, if you meant the games, thats another issue
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 1:34PM
If you're not going to watch the video of them playing the games and having people who've never played Wii before play them, than just drop it already.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 1:44PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGCZOXU2uVU&feature=player_embedded
yep, sounds like WM+ is just a total failure. They HATED it. They never want to see a Wii again in their lifetimes.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 1:51PM
Moptimus, you're obviously so blinded by love for the peripheral that you only saw what you wanted to in those videos. Yes, the golfers enjoyed it. And it did work, but the male golfer once again expressed concern over the putting, which has always plagued golfing on the Wii. Then there's the precious frisbee golf, which always gives 100% power whether you put your whole body into the throw or just flick your wrist. Then, in GST, the game never really knows which side your swinging from. It guesses and the player does this "magnetized" run towards the balls position to land your swing. I don't exactly call that 1:1.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 1:54PM
so you're complaining about the GAMES, not the peripheral itself.
Which (as I pointed out earlier) is another issue entirely
Mr Khan @ Jul 7th 2009 2:03PM
"and the weekly 1up podcast I listen to"
There's your problem, right there.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 2:03PM
No, but as I said before when we started this back-and-forth, it's my observation and experience that the WM+ has yet to back up it's claims. And that's from PERSONAL observation and experience. 'Nuff said.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 2:13PM
so, you're basically saying anecdotal evidence > facts?
Well, I've got some anecdotal evidence here that says the Holocaust never happened, so I guess all those camps and mass graves were just the Jews way of showing the world how emo they were
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 2:17PM
Dude, what the fuck are you talking about now? Seriously.
Read carefully. All I said in my initial statement was that I played both Tiger Woods and Grand Slam Tennis and that it didn't seem to make a difference to me. And of course, all the idiots come out of the woodwork to tell me that I didn't do this right and didn't do that right and that the WM+ really does work. How in the fuck are you going to tell me what experience I got from two games that I played? The experience that I recieved at the kiosk seemed on point with what Engadget reported in their video hands-on. That's what the facts are. And now you're spouting some BS about the Holocaust and whatever. Get outta here man.
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 2:24PM
"The experience that I recieved at the kiosk seemed on point with what Engadget reported in their video hands-on."
your experience is "The peripheral doesnt work"
their experience is "The peripheral works, but the games aren't worth jizzing in your pants over"
Vidikron @ Jul 7th 2009 2:24PM
"Then there's the precious frisbee golf, which always gives 100% power whether you put your whole body into the throw or just flick your wrist. "
Hmmm... that really isn't true. I actually had a hard time trying to get 100% for first few throws. I kept getting between 60-80%. But like driving in the golf portion, I think power is more about proper form than it is about raw speed of your motion. In that sense it isn't 1:1. Power comes more from how far you back swing and making sure you follow through. The power can be altered by the speed of your motion, but not in true 1:1 fashion.
BUT I actually think that's somewhat of a good thing. Imagine if you actually had to swing your arm as hard to get a 300 yard drive as you would in real life. I literally nearly threw out my arm doing exactly that in the golf portion trying to get 100% (seriously, my arm was in pain) until I realized my problem was that I wasn't going back far enough on my back swing, not that I wasn't swining hard enough. You still have to swing firmly, but not so much that losing the Wiimote would knock someone out.
Anyway, back to the disc golf, I was able to get less than 100% pretty much at will. You just have to remember that at longer distances adjusting power is more about the form. At short putting distances (for both golf and disc golf) it becomes much more of a 1:1 affair with speed of your swing/throw. But at all times form is a true 1:1. You can easily draw or fade drive with a simple twist of your wrist in golf and the flight of the disc in disc golf is highly adjustable based on the angle of the throw (e.g. you can throw the disc with the leading edge angled up to get a soft drop throw... or whatever those are properly called).
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 2:28PM
Hey Moptimus, next time you quote someone, make sure you do it right. Because at no point do I ever say "The peripheral doesn't work".
I say it "Didn't seem to do much more that the Wii Remote does by itself.", and "WM+ didn't vastly improve my experience on either".
Are we done yet?
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 2:42PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphrase
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/563/01/
http://library.duke.edu/research/plagiarism/cite/paraphrase.html
you're welcome
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 2:46PM
Ok, this is the last reply I'm going to make to you because your thick skull is just pissing me off now.
You didn't paraphrase shit. If the peripheral simply "didn't work" as you so eloquently put it, then I wouldn't have been able to play the game at all. The games wouldn't have responded period. They did help, a little, but not in the way that the peripheral has been advertised. Does that make it better for you to understand, or do you need a See-N-Say or something?
Girugamuk (Moptimus Slimed) @ Jul 7th 2009 3:05PM
"You didn't paraphrase shit. If the peripheral simply "didn't work" as you so eloquently put it, then I wouldn't have been able to play the game at all. The games wouldn't have responded period."
wait.......what? Having Wii Motion+ doesn't mean that the Wiimote suddenly depends on it to do everything. If it didn't work, you'd still have the function of a regular Wiimote.
"They did help, a little, but not in the way that the peripheral has been advertised."
for the 3rd time, your complaints should be directed towards the games, not the peripheral. Also, just because something can happen (1:1) doesn't mean it will. I CAN go out and try to assassinate the president, but that doesn't mean I will. Hell, the people behind Grand Slam even said that they wouldn't be doing 1:1. Just like the people who are making Red Steel 2 said they wouldn't have 1:1 sword play.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 7th 2009 3:32PM
Well Moptimus I've read online that it does in fact effect the regular Wiimote functions. And here's a link for you just in case you need some evidence of just one of the issues. (http://techforums.nintendo.com/nins/board/message?board.id=wii_tech&message.id=26356).
And the point, once again, is they claim that the WM+ allows for more accurate reading of the movement of your hand/arms and I have not experienced that.
Jerk Face @ Jul 7th 2009 4:00PM
Jesus. Look at this failstorm. All because Eagle said the not-so-awesome WM+ is not so awesome? I love Nintendo Kids. Have fun jet skiing.