We stopped by Ubisoft's San Francisco offices late last week to spend more time with its upcoming Nintendo platform lineup. Although we'd played many of the same games -- at the same stage of development -- during E3, now was the time to really focus on details. So, first up was Red Steel 2, a game that initially had us smitten with its manga-esque East-meets-West visual style, but failed to impress once we took hold of its controls.
So, once again, we were faced with the extremely short demo / gameplay primer Ubisoft had created for last month's trade show. This second look didn't leave us any more enamored with the mix of sword slashing and pistol shooting, but we were able to get a better idea of exactly what didn't feel right. At the same time, we came away even more impressed by the game from a visual standpoint than when we'd first seen it in action.
Let there be no doubt about it: Red Steel 2 is easily one of the best-looking games in the pipeline for Wii. This partly has to do with the visual style itself, one that, like MadWorld's, is light on detail and realism but is heavily stylized. The developer has gone for a clean look, rather than try to force the system to pull off a highly realistic style it is simply not equipped to. The other part is framerate; locked at 60fps, the game is sharp and fast.
Given that it's designed to work exclusively with Wii MotionPlus -- the game's producer, Jason Vandenberghe, says the game was in development before Ubisoft learned of the add-on, and that it changed the design considerably -- we expected (as was hyped just before we played) the ultimate video game sword fighting experience. Yet, for the touted 1:1 accuracy of MotionPlus, we were surprised at just how "canned' the swordplay felt.
We spent several minutes swinging the katana and trying to figure out exactly what the MotionPlus was doing. It was clear that the sword wasn't replicating our every movement with the Wiimote. In fact, there seemed to be only seven set angles to strike at: 12 o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock and three o'clock; 11 o'clock, 10 o'clock and nine o'clock. Striking also seemed to require a considerably strong (and tiring) swinging motion, but this is something that may be addressed via a sensitivity setting.
Beyond the letdown of the swordplay's feel, we found the precision of the combat's pistol component to be very good -- it's a shame that there's not more to shoot at. During the demo, we encountered less than a dozen enemies, all of which looked nearly identical, the only major difference being that some were wearing armor and others weren't. Killing the latter was more difficult simply for the fact that we had to knock off their armor first.
Holding the A button put us into guard mode, locking the blade in place vertically or horizontally, depending on how we'd been holding it before pressing the button. Deflecting bullets this way was a treat and blocking the enemies' sword attacks (sometimes vertical, sometimes horizontal) felt good, too. But, really, it all boiled down to mindlessly slashing at enemies until they didn't get back up.
The end-of-demo boss -- a variant of the stock enemy wielding a giant hammer -- was defeated the same way in-between dashes to avoid his swings and get into position behind him (his weak spot).
To say the areas within the level we played -- as well as the actual gameplay itself -- were repetitive would be a huge understatement. Red Steel 2 looks amazing, but unless the final game's levels offer up more varied gameplay the experience risks being amazingly dull.
Reader Comments (100)
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 4:02PM StormEagle said
@Jerkface Failstorm? Nah....we were trying to set some sort of reply record.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2009 4:04PM (Unverified) said
Thats odd. I've had that happen to me before (w/o motion+) but I'm not sure how I corrected it.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2009 6:16PM hey buddy said
"Didn't seem to do much more that the Wii Remote does by itself,"
is what you stated. When told that the frisbee game in TW10 would show you how you might have missed something, you reply with:
"That's because people don't buy Tiger Woods GOLF to throw a damned frisbee. Who cares how accurate it is mesauring your grip on a plastic disc?"
...which is addressing something a little different from what you originally asserted, and missing the point of some of the replies to you.
Fact is, although I vowed to not buy it at one point because the Wii has been a bit of a letdown to me, I found that the MotionPlus add-on in Tiger Woods 10 makes a major difference, and people are trying to tell you that difference is most apparent to the doubtful in the frisbee game. No one is saying who bought *what* for *why*, people are just trying to point you to the most direct place to see the MotionPlus thing really work. If you re-read this long string of comments, somewhere in there you take a sudden lurch into defensive mode, calling people "idiots com[ing] out of the woodwork," etc.
Let's have a lemonade and relax! Maybe play some Tiger Woods on the iPhone or something.
Reply
is what you stated. When told that the frisbee game in TW10 would show you how you might have missed something, you reply with:
"That's because people don't buy Tiger Woods GOLF to throw a damned frisbee. Who cares how accurate it is mesauring your grip on a plastic disc?"
...which is addressing something a little different from what you originally asserted, and missing the point of some of the replies to you.
Fact is, although I vowed to not buy it at one point because the Wii has been a bit of a letdown to me, I found that the MotionPlus add-on in Tiger Woods 10 makes a major difference, and people are trying to tell you that difference is most apparent to the doubtful in the frisbee game. No one is saying who bought *what* for *why*, people are just trying to point you to the most direct place to see the MotionPlus thing really work. If you re-read this long string of comments, somewhere in there you take a sudden lurch into defensive mode, calling people "idiots com[ing] out of the woodwork," etc.
Let's have a lemonade and relax! Maybe play some Tiger Woods on the iPhone or something.
Posted: Jul 8th 2009 5:48AM bm111 said
"Then there's the precious frisbee golf, which always gives 100% power whether you put your whole body into the throw or just flick your wrist."
I don't know where you get that idea, I was failing to get any good distance like my friend did, before he told me to just throw harder. And I did, and I threw further.
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I don't know where you get that idea, I was failing to get any good distance like my friend did, before he told me to just throw harder. And I did, and I threw further.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:39PM Uncle Jesse said
Fingers crossed that all the problems are resolved when the game releases. I really dig the art style and the idea of shoot outs and sword fights combined. Looks cool but nothing else will matter unless the controls are tight.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:42PM Haggard said
"Looks good for a Wii game"
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:51PM (Unverified) said
"Looks good for any game"
Uhh..let's not get ahead of ourselves. The original statement was much better, and it does look good for a wii game.
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Uhh..let's not get ahead of ourselves. The original statement was much better, and it does look good for a wii game.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:56PM StormEagle said
Jimbo, why don't you get off the Wii's nuts instead of counter-commenting against everyone that says something about the Wii, and doesn't put it up on a high enough pedestal for you?
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Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:57PM mr nimblewick said
I think it just looks good. Nice art style. I'll reserve my judgement about the gameplay.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2009 2:31PM Captain Planet Planeteer Power said
@ Jimbotron
I think you're the most obvious Nintendo fanboy I've ever seen on this site.
Reply
I think you're the most obvious Nintendo fanboy I've ever seen on this site.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:43PM (Unverified) said
I've been curious to see how an action game like Red Steel 2 would deal with Motion+'s need to constantly be recalibrated to avoid "drift". I'm wondering if the fixed slash angles Joystiq noticed are their solution; with the slashes canned like that a little inaccuracy in the Motion+ would be less noticeable.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:43PM (Unverified) said
the style reminds me of a cleaned up No More Heroes
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:51PM dreganfyre said
Not to nitpick, but...
"...some were wearing armor and others weren't. Killing the latter was more difficult..."
Shouldn't that be "Killing the former"?
"...some were wearing armor and others weren't. Killing the latter was more difficult..."
Shouldn't that be "Killing the former"?
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:54PM mr nimblewick said
Boy, it's too bad the TUTORIAL was too repetitive for joystiq. Come on guys.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 12:54PM isotrex said
well, i was also hoping that it would be 1:1 with the WM+...
i guess this is an "oh well" situation...
but damn, it looks good.
i guess this is an "oh well" situation...
but damn, it looks good.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:03PM ALittleWeeny said
No it works fantastically. I have the japanese Wii Sports Resort and have been playing it non-stop since I got it. It is very accurate and it feels great when you get your hands on it. When you are playing sword-fighting in Wii Sports Resort, everything you do in real life will be mimicked in the game (it doesn't detect space though, just the actions the wii remote does). Wii Sports Resort is a great game and Wii MotionPlus certainly opens up new possibilities. It is all it is hyped up to be however it will up to the developers to program it right. It appears that Ubisoft isn't actually utilizing MotionPlus to it's full capabilities. They are just programming to read simple actions rather than full control over the sword (which believe me is COMPLETELY possible with MotionPlus). If they are doing that it is no different than any other Wii game now and that's not what should be happening with MotionPlus. MotionPlus should fulfill those thoughts we had when we first saw that Wii trailer with the guy banging on the drums and that group of people playing tennis. Perfect control is what we had in mind and now we can finally have it.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:04PM (Unverified) said
cool story brah
http://fast1.onesite.com/fans.wwe.com/user/orion./00b289373ac0de51522e861803b280c5.jpg
Reply
http://fast1.onesite.com/fans.wwe.com/user/orion./00b289373ac0de51522e861803b280c5.jpg
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 4:42PM (Unverified) said
Agreed -- the sword control on Wii Sports Resort is precise and fluid and works wonderfully. (Not to mention the control on the updated sports bowling and golf is a considerable improvement over the originals.)
Don't judge Motion+ based on games like Tiger Woods, Tennis, and Red Steel which shoehorned it in later in development.
Reply
Don't judge Motion+ based on games like Tiger Woods, Tennis, and Red Steel which shoehorned it in later in development.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:09PM mr nimblewick said
That kind of language isn't helpful.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:10PM (Unverified) said
hmmmmm, I really wanna say "Cool story brah" but I dont want to overuse that
What to do, what to do?
I've got it!
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I've got it!
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.........................,/...............................................”:,
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Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:11PM (Unverified) said
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:18PM Vidikron said
Wow... wishing cancer on someone. Really? I know we like to argue/debate at times around here, but don't you think that's going too far?
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:24PM DrXym said
Yippee, Motion Plus heralds a new generation of games which map mad flailing onto generic sword swinging actions.
Posted: Jul 8th 2009 5:15PM Deaths Hand said
The first Red Steel did that and I really liked the game. Felt arcade, but not archaic.
Had a good ending, upgraded sword skills, decent story, gangsta gun tilt...I dunno it all just worked for me.
The Brits liked it:
http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/747/747541p1.html
Reply
Had a good ending, upgraded sword skills, decent story, gangsta gun tilt...I dunno it all just worked for me.
The Brits liked it:
http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/747/747541p1.html
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:27PM (Unverified) said
From what I saw from Wii Sports Resort, 1:1 swordfighting is most definitely possible. It looks like Ubisoft either isn't done or likes disappointing people.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:34PM Saria the Cat said
The original Red Steel was one of the titles I was excited about purchasing for my Wii, but never did after hearing how lousy the gameplay was. I guess I won't be picking up Red Steel 2... It's a shame, I really want a good reason to dust my Wii off.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:35PM (Unverified) said
Saria, I'm disappointed that you used the dusty Wii line.
Reply
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:38PM Saria the Cat said
@WRE: I know, it's a fat cliche, but I'm seriously grasping at straws here. :( I haven't played my Wii in way too long. Once first party stuff comes out, I'll of course pick it up again, but lately there hasn't been anything to get me excited.
Reply
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:49PM (Unverified) said
I know what you mean. The Conduit is a good single player experience if you're into the FPS scene but all I've been playing recently is Cops 'n Crooks and Mass Effect so I know how you feel. I just hate that line, you know?
Reply
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 2:13PM MarkezJM said
Yeah, it's a pretty sorry bit to use. SHAME ON YOU! We had friends in town over the weekend here so I picked up Tetris Party off WiiWare which is a lot of fun. Other than all the Mario Party, Mario Galaxy, and Mario Kart I played while my 360 was in the shop, I've basically been doing nothing but Fallout 3 and Castle Crashers :P
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Posted: Jul 7th 2009 2:48PM (Unverified) said
Shit im still enjoying Okami myself!
35 hours logged on that bad boy!
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35 hours logged on that bad boy!
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:34PM Ravnos said
Ignoring all the generic Joystiq Wii-bashing in the comments, I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be excited for this game. The first one was terrible. This one might not be, but it's not getting the benefit of the doubt this time. Red Steel 2 has to earn respect this time, I don't think too many people are going to fall for the same trick twice.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 1:55PM RobS the 3rd said
I'll reserve judgment for when the full game comes out.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 2:06PM Mr Khan said
I'm just pondering how much value this game is going to have. No multiplayer better mean that they build one hell of a single-player.
I agree that they seem to be under-utilizing the gunplay in this, but i've also long since learned to trust only my own judgment about the thrill factor of motion controls, which is no offense to anyone
I agree that they seem to be under-utilizing the gunplay in this, but i've also long since learned to trust only my own judgment about the thrill factor of motion controls, which is no offense to anyone
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 2:46PM (Unverified) said
"Grow a pair and then get cancer in your nuts while you're at it."
I don't know why but I found this part exceptionally funny.
I don't know why but I found this part exceptionally funny.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 2:47PM BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam said
Anyone else think that Ubisoft should rename this game to something that ISN'T related to Red Steel?
Yeah, the first one sold over 1M... but the pickings at launch were pretty slim. And how many of those were burned by how bad Red Steel was?
I'm just thinking that relating this game to the first Red Steel may deter people from buying it.
Yeah, the first one sold over 1M... but the pickings at launch were pretty slim. And how many of those were burned by how bad Red Steel was?
I'm just thinking that relating this game to the first Red Steel may deter people from buying it.
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 3:08PM (Unverified) said
I'd say Red Steel: Redemption, but I'm pretty sure Rockstar would sue them if they picked that
Reply
Posted: Jul 7th 2009 6:47PM Capgun said
2 things that have me burned on this game: Lack of blood, and the sword delay. The attacks from what I saw on the e3 demo seemed visceral, but you might as well be killing ragdolls as it is. The latter, it seemed like the sword would be a good second or so between the sword ingame, which seemed to kill that whole 1:1 thing.
Posted: Jul 8th 2009 2:15AM (Unverified) said
But.. but.. but..
I don't see how they can win. We are all untrained swordfighters, so basically sword fights WOULD amount to flailing around and hitting things until the don't get up. Most real swordfights DON'T consist of stringing together clever combos... they are hitting the other guy first.
The alternative is to give you combos to chain together. But then it isn't 1:1.
I don't get the 1:1 obsession anyway, its an unrealistic and probably not very fun idea for a swordfighting game..
I don't see how they can win. We are all untrained swordfighters, so basically sword fights WOULD amount to flailing around and hitting things until the don't get up. Most real swordfights DON'T consist of stringing together clever combos... they are hitting the other guy first.
The alternative is to give you combos to chain together. But then it isn't 1:1.
I don't get the 1:1 obsession anyway, its an unrealistic and probably not very fun idea for a swordfighting game..
Posted: Jul 8th 2009 10:43AM Mr Fister said
"To say the areas within the level we played -- as well as the actual gameplay itself -- were repetitive would be a huge understatement. Red Steel 2 looks amazing, but unless the final game's levels offer up more varied gameplay the experience risks being amazingly dull."
This is what worries me the most about this game: That it's just going to consist entirely of moving from one area to the next, fighting the same enemies in the same manner. Yes, the graphics look good (especially for a third-party Wii game), and the controls appear to be well-adjusted, but good graphics and controls don't mean anything if the gameplay is boring and repetitive.
Of course, this game could turn out awesome, so I'll reserve judgment for now.
This is what worries me the most about this game: That it's just going to consist entirely of moving from one area to the next, fighting the same enemies in the same manner. Yes, the graphics look good (especially for a third-party Wii game), and the controls appear to be well-adjusted, but good graphics and controls don't mean anything if the gameplay is boring and repetitive.
Of course, this game could turn out awesome, so I'll reserve judgment for now.
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