Not everyone's happy about Ubisoft Toronto

Remember, this is a site based in the US. They're not used to it.

Part of being a Canadian is being screwed in the ass by the tech companies, we should at least get to complain about it.

For more accuracy: The Gardiner, I hate you :P

i like how busy the westbound is compared to the eastbound lol

Yes! 800 people will start earning 50k+ salaries! This is the answer to all our economic problems!

It won't solve all our economic problems, but it's a step in the right direction. The talent pool could attract other studios to the region. Plus 800 people spending money and using services in the region will boost at least a few local businesses.

No kidding, I drove down the Lakeshore Rd. last week and it smelled like God took a dump. This strike has got to end.

Nook: As a one-time game developer, there *is* no brain drain to the US when it comes to game jobs. I'm perfectly serious.

There's a brain drain for any other job - non-game-industry programmers, doctors, lawyers, business-folk, etc.

People hate admitting it and it's taboo to point it out, but the BIG and primary reason why EA, Ubi, and the like are operating in Canada is because we are significantly cheaper than Americans. This whole cost benefit will break down very quickly if there were open mobility for game jobs to the States. I've known plenty of people who have worked for EA and Ubi in Canada, and the general consensus in the same: there is no way you're moving down to another EA/Ubi office in the USA, and very few game studios in the US are willing to invest in the immigration/lawyer costs to get you down on a visa.

We are NOT draining game developers to the US - as much as I wish it were true :) So if we're gonna go by the argument that the government needs to spend money to stop the brain drain, this is the wrong place to spend it.

@potato
You do know that Ubi was founded by Canadians... that's probably the primary reason it set up shop in Canada

@DVersion...

Hum, a little correction here. Ubi is French.. like from Paris, France. Founded by the Guillemot brothers. Look it up man. Ubisoft is something like 20 years old, while Ubisoft Montreal is something like 10 or 12.

Yeah, there's no game developer 'brain drain' from Canada to the US, just like all your decent entertainers don't move here to make a career.

We'll let you keep Bryan Adams though.

A little syrup and round bacon oughta take care of that smell.

Rockstar Toronto?

Or were you talking about a large publisher?

rockstar 'toronto' is in oakville. and oakville != toronto.

Rockstar Toronto also hasn't made any big titles. And I mean big on the scale of assasin's creed or gta.

It's about three clicks west of where you are right now...come on in...we have cake...

I don't know if it was intentional, but I totally read your pot in the professor's voice.

post.

/edit

I don't know who's economy you're calling feeble, because Canada is doing pretty darn well in this whole global bruhaha. Our prime minister may be a tool, but he's a tool with a degree in Economics and he knows what he's doing.

Economics lesson for you, Canadian banks are the most sound banks in the world. To the point where when I recently went to New York City there were more TD branches (Toronto Dominion they dropped the Canada Trust from their name) then there were in Toronto. The reason being is Toronto Dominion bough the broke asses of the Bank of America branches in NYC that were going under.

Further economics lesson, you need to spend money to make money, by spending money on these tax breaks they are able to get 800 more people on the tax rolls. Further the spin off profits from secondary industries are not even brought in to account here. This is something called an INVESTMENT by the Ontario government. The largest developer in Ontario (until now) was Silicone Knights who I don't have a lot of respect for. Never liked anything they did, but aside from that, they are out in Sudbury. Yes you have Rockstar in Toronto but they are a B team for the main Rockstar dev houses doing things like porting titles. This creates an employer in the largest city in the province where some of the best schools in the province (and the country, if not the world) are located. It's called long term thinking. For once something that McGinty actually seems to have done right.

You're right
it's so damn awesome here we have to actively search for things to complain about

Exactly.

Yea, like the bags of trash piling up in the city is nothing important to complain about.

Because we are AWESOME.

@Quattro: Then maybe the city should finally do something about all the homeless.

Oh, you meant the garbage strike. Didn't you guys just have one a few years ago? Though when I lived there, the city always smelled.

*Centre of the Universe, thank you very much.

True, Toronto is the USA of Canada
/flee

I call it the New York of Canada. Great to visit and see the bevy of stuff, but I wouldn't want to stay more than a couple days. Also you're gonna get stabbed if you go the wrong way.

Comparing Toronto to New York is fair in many ways, and working in retail in the heart of downtown has exposed me to how god damn self-centered the people (and scum) of the city are. But when people worry about getting stabbed I enthusiastically roll my eyes. Toronto is one of the safest large cities in the country, our police force is on the ball, I live in a fairly shitty area but I'm never afraid for my safety, most of the weirdos are merely looking for some good booze/crack.

@ Warp Whistle

I totally agree! As a Vancouverite, I hate the attitudes of Torontonians. But in the matter of crime, Toronto IS pretty much the safest city in Canada. If you don't believe me please come over to my city, Vancouver. If you are not in the middle of a gang fight then you would probably get mugged by a bum sooner or later.

Vancouver is like a hot girl with a BAD personality and Toronto is an ugly girl with a BEAUTIFUL personality, IMO. I do travel a lot between the two cities for work.

As said by others Toronto has one of the lowest crime rates in the country with Vancouver being one of the highest due to it's out of control drug cartels (which could prbably be seriously curtailed by a legalization of pot which would undermine many of the drug dealers and growers base source of income.) One thing that I really resent though is this hate on by the rest of Canada against Toronto.

For one thing, most Torontonians I know don't consider them selves "better" then the rest of the country. I live in Tornoto becuase it's like that line from 30 Rock "Flee with me to Toronto Liz, it's like New York but without all the stuff." And it's true, there are things here that you don't get anywhere else in Canada. The depth and bredth of it's theatre community, it's music scene, it's musemes are world class. Yes, there are bits and pieces across the country that are comprable but it's the entire package here. Add to this the degree of safety you get which is incomprable to that across much of the rest of the country.

I mean I could turn around and hurl insults at Vancouver, the stereotype being that it's an overpriced crime hole that's wallowing in drugs, or that Calgary is full of right wing wingnuts who care more about their pocket book then basic human rights or Montreal, the stereotype being it's a boring place full of snooty francaphones where there's nothing to do when there's not a festival going on. But you know what? While there's some truth in stereotypes (including those about Toronto) it's never the whole truth. And it's this divisive self loathing that people seem to have in Canada (and other countries) that is so depressing.

Instead of badmouthing the city, the same city that is the massive tax base for the province and the country which, without the economic tools based here, this country would have collapsed try embracing it like I try embracing the beauty of Vancouver (where I spent several years growing up as a child,) or Montreal (where both of my parents were born,) or Calgary where... well my beef comes from there right? ;-) Try and accentuate the positive people.

Canada: Joystiq's Hat

...And correspondingly; Joystiq, Canada's underpants.

Poutine is great and all, but you want the real delicious stuff, it starts and ends at Beaver Tails. Deep-fried pastry covered with toppings like sugar, maple cream, cinnamon, etc. Mmmmmm.