Not everyone's happy about Ubisoft Toronto
by Justin McElroy 
{ Jul 13th 2009 at 1:15PM }
Globe & Mail columnist Marcus Gee fumed, "That quarter-billion has to come from somewhere, much of it from good Toronto businesses that don't have the buzz factor... Their tax burden will rise, and their business will suffer, while the cool kids in the video-game industry collect government cheques."
It's a statement that provides lots of insight, not only into the inner workings of the Toronto government, but also into the social standing of newspaper columnists if they think people in the video game industry are "cool kids."
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Detox @ Jul 13th 2009 12:39PM
People from Toronto bitching about something?
Really?
This is news?
Alexisonfire @ Jul 13th 2009 1:50PM
Remember, this is a site based in the US. They're not used to it.
finnith @ Jul 13th 2009 7:48PM
Part of being a Canadian is being screwed in the ass by the tech companies, we should at least get to complain about it.
Irwin @ Jul 13th 2009 12:39PM
Q.E.W.
I hate you.
:)
Kersh @ Jul 13th 2009 2:34PM
For more accuracy: The Gardiner, I hate you :P
Bobs @ Jul 13th 2009 10:44PM
i like how busy the westbound is compared to the eastbound lol
CH3BURASHKA @ Jul 13th 2009 12:47PM
Come on, Toronto. We all know that the only business that matters is video games. Who cares about all those trivial things like food and clothes and science and diet pills and paper towels?
Keith @ Jul 13th 2009 12:54PM
As has already been pointed out by a few people, this columnists argument is pretty flimsy. He is raising hell over the provincial government spending money we don't have, when what Ubisoft is actually receiving are tax credits that will be spread out over a ten year span. The money Ontario loses from these tax credits won't even be close to the positive impact this will have on the economy. I'm sure there are just as many loud mouthed reactionaries in Toronto as there are in most other places in the world (maybe a few more than average). It's usually best to ignore them.
phez @ Jul 13th 2009 2:39PM
Yes! 800 people will start earning 50k+ salaries! This is the answer to all our economic problems!
Evan @ Jul 13th 2009 2:58PM
It won't solve all our economic problems, but it's a step in the right direction. The talent pool could attract other studios to the region. Plus 800 people spending money and using services in the region will boost at least a few local businesses.
Nook @ Jul 13th 2009 1:04PM
how about stop bitching about this 'pork' spending to avoid the brain drain to the states and get the fucking trash collected.
Prof_Chaos @ Jul 13th 2009 1:28PM
No kidding, I drove down the Lakeshore Rd. last week and it smelled like God took a dump. This strike has got to end.
potato @ Jul 13th 2009 1:32PM
Nook: As a one-time game developer, there *is* no brain drain to the US when it comes to game jobs. I'm perfectly serious.
There's a brain drain for any other job - non-game-industry programmers, doctors, lawyers, business-folk, etc.
People hate admitting it and it's taboo to point it out, but the BIG and primary reason why EA, Ubi, and the like are operating in Canada is because we are significantly cheaper than Americans. This whole cost benefit will break down very quickly if there were open mobility for game jobs to the States. I've known plenty of people who have worked for EA and Ubi in Canada, and the general consensus in the same: there is no way you're moving down to another EA/Ubi office in the USA, and very few game studios in the US are willing to invest in the immigration/lawyer costs to get you down on a visa.
We are NOT draining game developers to the US - as much as I wish it were true :) So if we're gonna go by the argument that the government needs to spend money to stop the brain drain, this is the wrong place to spend it.
DVersion @ Jul 13th 2009 2:21PM
@potato
You do know that Ubi was founded by Canadians... that's probably the primary reason it set up shop in Canada
Whiskey Jak @ Jul 13th 2009 2:52PM
@DVersion...
Hum, a little correction here. Ubi is French.. like from Paris, France. Founded by the Guillemot brothers. Look it up man. Ubisoft is something like 20 years old, while Ubisoft Montreal is something like 10 or 12.
Douche Bigalow @ Jul 13th 2009 3:02PM
Yeah, there's no game developer 'brain drain' from Canada to the US, just like all your decent entertainers don't move here to make a career.
We'll let you keep Bryan Adams though.
LegendaryRedass @ Jul 13th 2009 5:31PM
A little syrup and round bacon oughta take care of that smell.
Penguin Warlord @ Jul 13th 2009 1:04PM
As a person from Toronto, I'm glad they're here. Toronto is the largest city in canada and the fifth largest in NA and yet there isn't a major studio presence here. Giving a ten year tax credit to a high quality tech company is going to do way more for the economy than hurt it.
Dannyboi68 @ Jul 13th 2009 1:29PM
Rockstar Toronto?
Or were you talking about a large publisher?
antigravitybomb @ Jul 13th 2009 2:28PM
rockstar 'toronto' is in oakville. and oakville != toronto.
Penguin Warlord @ Jul 13th 2009 2:51PM
Rockstar Toronto also hasn't made any big titles. And I mean big on the scale of assasin's creed or gta.
Sockninja @ Jul 13th 2009 1:14PM
Torontonians :)
This is awesome, first it was only ATI that i could throw defective products at, now UBISOFT!!! .... their games rock tho, so the only things id be tossing would be praise. And puppies.
shadowbender @ Jul 13th 2009 1:20PM
Ubisoft made Assassin's Creed, and for that I respect them.
The_Punisher @ Jul 13th 2009 1:22PM
"It's a statement that provides lots of insight, not only into the inner-workings of the Toronto government, but also into the social standing of newspaper columnists if they think people in the video game industry are "cool kids.""
LMAO
ToTheMoon @ Jul 13th 2009 1:28PM
Leafs Suck...
;) Sorry couldn't resist...
Personally, I think this deal was a great win for Toronto and have to praise the provincial government for doing something right with their (our) money.
Old Professor Zertoss @ Jul 13th 2009 1:30PM
In my universe, our businesses have to PAY money to open up a new branch, rather than be paid money. Might someone point me to the nearest portal to your reality, so that I may found my own electronic entertainment startup and be paid potentially ludicrous amounts of cash for it on the off-chance that it may stimulate your feeble economy?
Nate Addison @ Jul 13th 2009 1:52PM
It's about three clicks west of where you are right now...come on in...we have cake...
Petebot330 @ Jul 13th 2009 2:40PM
I don't know if it was intentional, but I totally read your pot in the professor's voice.
Petebot330 @ Jul 13th 2009 2:40PM
post.
/edit
Geist @ Jul 13th 2009 2:40PM
I don't know who's economy you're calling feeble, because Canada is doing pretty darn well in this whole global bruhaha. Our prime minister may be a tool, but he's a tool with a degree in Economics and he knows what he's doing.
commonperson @ Jul 14th 2009 10:38AM
Economics lesson for you, Canadian banks are the most sound banks in the world. To the point where when I recently went to New York City there were more TD branches (Toronto Dominion they dropped the Canada Trust from their name) then there were in Toronto. The reason being is Toronto Dominion bough the broke asses of the Bank of America branches in NYC that were going under.
Further economics lesson, you need to spend money to make money, by spending money on these tax breaks they are able to get 800 more people on the tax rolls. Further the spin off profits from secondary industries are not even brought in to account here. This is something called an INVESTMENT by the Ontario government. The largest developer in Ontario (until now) was Silicone Knights who I don't have a lot of respect for. Never liked anything they did, but aside from that, they are out in Sudbury. Yes you have Rockstar in Toronto but they are a B team for the main Rockstar dev houses doing things like porting titles. This creates an employer in the largest city in the province where some of the best schools in the province (and the country, if not the world) are located. It's called long term thinking. For once something that McGinty actually seems to have done right.
Captain Planet @ Jul 13th 2009 1:30PM
Further proof that Canadians have nothing important to complain about.
TheKarmaPolice @ Jul 13th 2009 2:21PM
You're right
it's so damn awesome here we have to actively search for things to complain about
Captain Planet @ Jul 13th 2009 4:21PM
Exactly.
Quattro @ Jul 13th 2009 6:35PM
Yea, like the bags of trash piling up in the city is nothing important to complain about.
jumpshot @ Jul 14th 2009 10:49AM
Because we are AWESOME.
Jimbotron @ Jul 14th 2009 1:57PM
@Quattro: Then maybe the city should finally do something about all the homeless.
Oh, you meant the garbage strike. Didn't you guys just have one a few years ago? Though when I lived there, the city always smelled.
Ten Dolla Bill @ Jul 13th 2009 1:32PM
You had it right the first time Justin, they call themselves Torontonians aka Center of the Universites
cannibalchris1986 @ Jul 13th 2009 1:58PM
*Centre of the Universe, thank you very much.
TheKarmaPolice @ Jul 13th 2009 2:22PM
True, Toronto is the USA of Canada
/flee
Geist @ Jul 13th 2009 2:37PM
I call it the New York of Canada. Great to visit and see the bevy of stuff, but I wouldn't want to stay more than a couple days. Also you're gonna get stabbed if you go the wrong way.
Warp Whistle @ Jul 13th 2009 2:46PM
Comparing Toronto to New York is fair in many ways, and working in retail in the heart of downtown has exposed me to how god damn self-centered the people (and scum) of the city are. But when people worry about getting stabbed I enthusiastically roll my eyes. Toronto is one of the safest large cities in the country, our police force is on the ball, I live in a fairly shitty area but I'm never afraid for my safety, most of the weirdos are merely looking for some good booze/crack.
Jamesology @ Jul 14th 2009 2:00AM
@ Warp Whistle
I totally agree! As a Vancouverite, I hate the attitudes of Torontonians. But in the matter of crime, Toronto IS pretty much the safest city in Canada. If you don't believe me please come over to my city, Vancouver. If you are not in the middle of a gang fight then you would probably get mugged by a bum sooner or later.
Vancouver is like a hot girl with a BAD personality and Toronto is an ugly girl with a BEAUTIFUL personality, IMO. I do travel a lot between the two cities for work.
commonperson @ Jul 14th 2009 10:56AM
As said by others Toronto has one of the lowest crime rates in the country with Vancouver being one of the highest due to it's out of control drug cartels (which could prbably be seriously curtailed by a legalization of pot which would undermine many of the drug dealers and growers base source of income.) One thing that I really resent though is this hate on by the rest of Canada against Toronto.
For one thing, most Torontonians I know don't consider them selves "better" then the rest of the country. I live in Tornoto becuase it's like that line from 30 Rock "Flee with me to Toronto Liz, it's like New York but without all the stuff." And it's true, there are things here that you don't get anywhere else in Canada. The depth and bredth of it's theatre community, it's music scene, it's musemes are world class. Yes, there are bits and pieces across the country that are comprable but it's the entire package here. Add to this the degree of safety you get which is incomprable to that across much of the rest of the country.
I mean I could turn around and hurl insults at Vancouver, the stereotype being that it's an overpriced crime hole that's wallowing in drugs, or that Calgary is full of right wing wingnuts who care more about their pocket book then basic human rights or Montreal, the stereotype being it's a boring place full of snooty francaphones where there's nothing to do when there's not a festival going on. But you know what? While there's some truth in stereotypes (including those about Toronto) it's never the whole truth. And it's this divisive self loathing that people seem to have in Canada (and other countries) that is so depressing.
Instead of badmouthing the city, the same city that is the massive tax base for the province and the country which, without the economic tools based here, this country would have collapsed try embracing it like I try embracing the beauty of Vancouver (where I spent several years growing up as a child,) or Montreal (where both of my parents were born,) or Calgary where... well my beef comes from there right? ;-) Try and accentuate the positive people.
Storm Eagle::The Blood Edge @ Jul 13th 2009 1:32PM
How did this make it back to the top of the page?
dark_inchworm (on Steam!) dark inchworm (on XBL!) @ Jul 13th 2009 1:48PM
Canada: Joystiq's Hat
Faar @ Jul 13th 2009 2:31PM
...And correspondingly; Joystiq, Canada's underpants.
LaughingTarget @ Jul 13th 2009 1:41PM
I figure a city isn't operating friendly environment if they have to bribe companies to open up shop there. Forcing other area businesses and residents to foot the bill falls under the unfriendly column.
dark_inchworm (on Steam!) dark inchworm (on XBL!) @ Jul 13th 2009 1:51PM
I've always wanted to visit Canada, if only because: A) I've never left the U.S., and B) poutine.
Geist @ Jul 13th 2009 2:34PM
Poutine is great and all, but you want the real delicious stuff, it starts and ends at Beaver Tails. Deep-fried pastry covered with toppings like sugar, maple cream, cinnamon, etc. Mmmmmm.