1.5 million copies of Crackdown sold is 'breaking even' for Realtime Worlds

question:

i recently finished inFamous both as Good and Evil (awesome game, btw). should i give Prototype a try, or save myself a whole heaping of money and find Crackdown somewhere for cheap?

These guys need to quit bitching about used game sales. Make it/market it good enough, and it shouldn't be a problem.

And 1.5 million to break even sounds high for a game in its class.

It's so childish of their CEO to complain about Gamestop taking away their sales as a reason for only breaking even. EVERY SINGLE GAME that comes out has to deal with this factor. It's like using the excuse of "the wind was really bad today" when someone asks you why you lost a tennis match. The wind is the same for both players.

I didn't get Crackdown till this year but i must say it was a really good game.

Let me do some math here.

1.5 mil x $40(say the average price) = $ 60 mil
20% goes to the retailer = $ 48 mil for the publisher.

I thought the game cost about $ 20 mil.

this is moreso evidence of game production costs spiraling out of control than it is about gamestop destroying the gaming industry

"We lost a lot of money on people who didn't want to buy the game at the price we were charging. So instead of just lowering the price, we have to make sure those people never buy a copy of the game, ever. It's the only way to save the industry!"

I buy a lot of games with resale in mind. If they were to take away that component, I'd simply buy a lot less games.

Games that I feel are worth $60 or more and that I want to keep are pretty rare. Most of the games I play are just to play and move on. There's no way I'd buy as many games as I do if I could not resale them. Now, if they went digital and lowered the prices, that wouldn't be as bad, but you know that wouldn't happen.

Since i started gaming seriously in the PS1 era i have accumulated roughly 150 games. I've paid an average price of 20$ for each of them.

I don't buy at gamestop if i can help it though, i prefer a store down the street called "John's buy and sell" run by a 30-year old ubergeek. Named John. Not that there's anything wrong with the local gamestop, just takes me longer to walk there.

Does this make me an enemy of the developers? Do i hurt the industry by spending thrifty? Does this make me less of a gamer?

No. It means i get a good deal. I still need a physical copy of the disc. I'm willing to spend money on (Good!) DLC. I spend some of the money i save on T-shirts and other merch that they offer. Oh, and i still have to get my freaking system. I support the industry. I am a consumer, and a capatalist. I am not a thief.

Honestly, PC developers whine less about rampant PIRACY than console developers do about freaking gamestop. Look guys, get over it.

I used Goozex and SwapTree ever since hearing about them from commentators on this site.

Now NOBODY gets my money! Well, aside from the Post Office and the miniscule shipping transaction fee.

Eat that developers/Gamestop/everyone!

I originally bought it for the Halo 3 beta, but it ended up being one of my favorite games of this generation. If you have a 360 and haven't tried it, I'd highly suggest picking up a copy.

Oh surprise... another "wah wah wah wah Gamestop wah wah wah wah used games wah wah wah wah."

::insert crying baby picture of choice mentally here::

So Gamestop followed the American theme of entrepreneurship and found a profitable business model? What's that you say? You don't like it? Get over it--if you had figured it out first and you had to run your own business (and STAY in business) to support the hobby you'd do the same. And get off the piracy analogy--that dog won't hunt, because 80% of new game sales are paid for with some form of trade credit that people otherwise couldn't afford. You want to know why the gaming business has held up during the recession? Trades. It's the difference maker between the mid 80's crash and the here and now. People have currency they normally wouldn't have, which enables to spend more then they could have.

Shrink your business by the $1.2 billion currently subsidized through trade in models and used games attraction (which is a different customer then the new software consumer in many cases anyway) and see which developers are then left standing. See if your silly pseudo sandbox wannabe trojan horse desperation demo carrying game does as well next time. Quit whining and accept the fact that 16 million people trade and buy used games yearly, and more likely then not, your job and the industry would be quite weakened without Gamestop. There is room, employment, enjoyment and profit in this beloved hobby of ours for all of us--developers, players and retailers.


Have you ever thought about other reasons that there is a demand for used software? (and not just at Gamestop)

1) Your game sucks because you failed to properly playtest it or had a lazy programming team, and it isn't worth the extra $5 or $10

2) People need to save money, because with the more money they save, the more games they can buy

3) One can even take the opposite approach. EA haters can choose to only buy used Madden as a form of protest for a game they consider to be nothing but a glorified roster upgrade yearly?

I don't know---I buy both used and new. If I HAVE to have it--a product I know is high quality (Bethesda or Bioware products for example) and one that I desperately want (Blood Bowl for 360! UFC! And how can I forget COD MW2?) I am not going to wait and buy used. But if it is a game that I know has a short shelf life, a questionable developer or is just a plain old good deal (I got Rumble Roses XX for like $5 and I confess to a guilty pleasure for it, will buy the next one new at full!) I will buy used, especially if I am low on $.

Face the facts, and move on Joystiq; there's a free market for used and trades that exists--but God forbid we blame the consumers...or even--GASP!--ourselves if we are the ones who have had a transaction with GS.


The GS / used constant bash theme is old and whiny. I just had to finally speak up although I know a bunch of people will trash me for speaking my mind. And yeah, I work for the company and love my customers, co-workers and core business. We promote GAMING.

I am just tired of seeing the same lame "we hate gamestop we hate used we hate people who buy used we hate the trade in prices" stuff over and over again. I know bloggers are a vocal minority compared with the purchasing power of moms and dads and grandparents and girlfriends/spouses worldwide who care not for such debates--but I still love my hardcore gamer base and just wish that they would give my company a little bit of respect for promoting the core business. We aren't perfect--no business is--but we are a place that specializes in what all of us love; Video Games.

That's gotta count for something good in my book.

::off soapbox::

how much money did they actually spend developing the game then? If 1.5 million is just enough to break even, then i worry for all the other games this gen that have sold quite a bit less than that.

Your all forgetting that the developer's sell game's to the shop's (sure it might be lil bit cheaper so the store can make some money as well) but the developer's already have the game's sold... so they've made their money...

it's up to the store to sell the game so they can get back the money from buying the game's from the developer... if they wanna sell it cheaper (it's their loss)

many developer's moan and bi*ch about used game sale's... there's nothing they can do until the game's come through digital download... (ala microsoft games on demand) it's the customer's choice to sell their game mayby they thought it would be longer or better than what they played (unless they played the first 5 stages of the game ala sonic unleashed 360 ign review and they gave it a low score go check it out)

though i do hate it when people moan about the exchange rate for a week old game or older games... which i agree with i mean buying a used game off a guy for $1.00 (or £0.75p in the uk like i am) when the game cost full retail price a couple of weeks ago then the kick in the nut's is that the store will sell that game used for $20.00 making over 200% profit... so yea thats why ill never sell my game's (luckily ive never had to buy the avatar game yet :P)

That game was so awesome! How people didnt buy it, is beyond me. It was incredibly fun jumping around the city with a friend...creating havoc.

Wow. Someone call the waaaah-mbulance.

You ONLY sold 1.5 million copies ? They must of squandered a lot of money away in the process.

People basically bought it for Halo 3. People sold it shortly after, and then the used game went down to like $20.

Your game wasn't worth $60 to most people, it was worth $20.

i don't care what anyone says - Crackdown is an amazing game.

i originally bought it for the HALO 3 Beta, but actually ended up playing Crackdown more than the Beta :P

You sold 1.5mil copies and lost money? Sounds like a certain developer pissed away hoards of development cash on god knows what. And they want Gamestop to take the fall for it.

Your game made $90 million total - even if you subtract the tacked on per game console fee - that's still what, $70-75 mil?

Where did all that money go?

I wonder if Digital downloads will solve this gamestop buy used problem. It should make some of the production costs go down... and enable them to make more profit and sell it cheaper. who needs a disk anyway.

Two things always surprise me about this gamestop issue.
First: They always seem to imply that every used game sale equals a lost full price sale. That just isn't the case. Sure some used sales equal a lost full sale, but a lot of used sales are by people who simply would have NEVER paid full price for the game in the first place.

Second: If something has a resale value it adds to the value of the game making it a better deal then if there was no resale. This means that there are at least SOME sales at full price that would not have been made if there was no resale market. (I am more likely to buy something for 60 that I can resell for 10 than something for 60 that I can't resell at all) This aspect is almost never mentioned.

I would like to see some hard data on these issues, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the smart companies have, in fact, investigated this. My guess is that they are the ones who aren't constantly complaining about gamestop. They show they are smart companies by working with the market forces instead of crying about them.

1.5 million copies sold and you broke EVEN? Somebody's business model was broken from the get go. If the only way you can make money is to score a blockbuster hit, then you're doing it wrong. Do you know how many titles have been released for the 360...only a fraction make those kind of sales. Call of Duty 3 sold about the same, but didn't lose money for anyone. Guitar Hero III certainly didn't cost $50 million to make, and it sold as many copies.

This is one reason the Wii is/should be more attractive to developers. The cost of creating a game is far, far less...hence less risk. Who do you think stood to lose more money: the creators of Crackdown or the creators of House of the Dead: Overkill?

i almost bought crackdown, new but cheap, a year or more ago to play on family member's 360. something unexpected happened and i didn't want to just have the game sitting on the shelf next the disc from an xbox 360 mag.

So they are saying that GS makes the $60 for a new game and after that guy trades it in for like 20 bucks GS gains about $35 dollars from that because they sell it for $55
and if that guy gets bored and trades it in a month later and the game is still worth $55 used they make another $35 bucks if it sells again. So they make alot of money based on those damned used games but everyone is a part of that crazy system whether they want to be or not. GS still makes like $130 even if the 3rd guy decides to keep the game forever.

I liked Crackdown I bought it new (for obvious reasons) and still enjoyed the game. I will probably buy it again at some point... maybe before CD2 comes out.


Now for my opinion of used games... it is worse than piracy for the devs anyway. GS and others make money off used game sales and the dev gets zilch. That is why Digital games are the future but I hope said digital games are cheaper than console games like pc games are.

Fact is companies aren't even making games anymore. Everyone uses one engine and they call it a day at 5:00PM.

I don't think the game makers get it. If people didn't buy the game New they wouldn't have bought it at all if it wasn't there used. Ask certain other companies what happens when you keep your price high for something people don't want to pay for....People don't buy it.

The idea that some of these game companies feel their games will be bought if people are forced into that position is mind blowing because we already know with gaming that is exactly what Won't happen. Many gamers have expressed the fact that a lot of these games are aimed at core players. In reality Game developers are really aiming at a small market, and compete with various designers; unless you are coming out with a big name like HAlo, Final fantasy, Mario you should know what you are in for.

I have no remorse for any of these game designers, because knowing gamestops policies with used games. Knowing the size of the market they are aiming at. Knowing the preferences of that market. Knowing the budget a big time game cost(20-50) million in some estimates; they still decided to piss on the idea of making a well done casual game and laugh and scold any company that does. No other media market does that, Just to put it in perspective

Juno the movie was distributed by Fox Searchlight pictures. But was created as small a Canadian Film, it was made for 7.5 million dollars. The movie has made 231 MILLION back. Now lets look at the crap Fox normally puts out, Wolverine, Xmen 1-3. See sometimes you create something small and it delivers something great. X-men revenue can be used to take chances on movies like Juno, and Juno's profit can bring money in to make huge Blockbuster movies(hopefully not like Xmen)and you have a good cycle going.

On the other hand you can go the other route, So you see a type of game that does Fantastic and you decide that audience is your Audience and screw anybody else they aren't worth your time. Well that happens in movies to; Batman begins, Does great, Dark Knights Destroys box office records. So they keep copying the pattern rather than changing it up and get inferior creators, and what do you get? Watchmen a film made for 130milion that barely bought in 180 million.

While smaller game houses could copy the Juno style they instead opt to try and be Halo Each and every time. And when they fall flat on they face it is everybody's fault but the game makers for stepping into a market over saturated with the same game and not having something that lived up to the hype. Now in this particular case this company wants to be GTA the founder of this company left GTA and started RealTime Worlds, the problem is gaming already has its GTA do something different to get an audience that might keep the game after they buy it new, or learn to be GTA's little brother, and take the hand me downs. Am I saying the game was horrible NO, its just not worth what Realtime worlds thinks it is.

Where did they get that figure for used games sales, out of the blue? They just need to focus on marketing if they spent so much developing.

You release a brand new IP on a single platform, what were you expecting? Also, 1.5 million is not something to smirk at.

I'm not a big fan of Gamestop's crappy prices on used games, e.g. giving you $10 and selling it for four times that amount. So I sell all of my games through ebay or craig's list. Does this directly hurt the developer? I don't think so. The people who are paying less are either bargain hunters or just not that interested in your game to shell out full price for it. If I wasn't selling it used for cheap, they probably would have never bothered with it in the first place.

If you disagree, smack anyone you see buying a used game for $5 less than retail. With that little of difference, they should suck it up and support the game companies.

Dunno if someone already said it, but:

"With Crackdown we sold about 1.5 million copies, but even at that we pretty much only managed to break even," Jones said. "It was due to the amount of factors that were out of our control as the developer, influences such as GameStop's amazing used-game sales; we know 1.5 million new copies were sold, but it's likely there were 2.5, three million sold when you include used."

Wait, if only 1.5 million were sold (meaning only 1.5 million are in circulation), that would mean everyone who bought it new would have to have traded it in, and then all of THOSE would have to be bought again, for there to be 3.0 million total sold.

Or half the people would have traded it in, and those all sold, and those same people traded them in again, and those all sold. Which is also unlikely:

If you say that half the people that bought crackdown traded it in, and half of the people who bought those trade ins also traded it back in, etc etc, a game would have to be resold twice to hit 2.5 million, and 4 times to get anywhere close to 3 million (because its impossible to get to three million using the (generous) method I describe)

In other words, 2.5 million seems almost reasonable, but there's no way they have 3 million in total sales, with half of them be resales. I don't buy it.

BS

i'm sure this has already been said, but, this game only sold as many copies as it did because of the halo 3 beta. the reason there are so many used copies available out there for 5 dollars is because the game has very little depth or replay value. the developer and Microsoft used Halo's popularity to sell us a game that is really nothing special. If they packaged the Halo 3 beta with ANY game it would have sold just as many copies. Marketing genius if only they had packaged the beta with a game that is as awesome or a IP that is established that people actually care about.

I hope they do make another crackdown and i hope its another pumped up GTA clone that has no story and the gameplay of a movie adaptation.