64K signature petition delays German govt's game-banning bill
by Majed Athab 
{ Jul 28th 2009 at 2:00AM }
In specifics, the government is looking to ban any software "where the main part is to realistically play the killing of people or other cruel or un-human acts of violence against humans or manlike characters." Basically, kiss all those lovely shooters goodbye -- that is, if the delay spurred by the petition won't change the government's mind.
Considering Germany is a place that enjoys the sound of the banhammer falling (examples: coked up Red Bull, genetically modified corn products and even 26 years of its own history have all been outlawed), there's no guarantee the bill will be deterred. In fact, the source Gamezine notes Germany passed the internet censorship bill (which was a similar case that had double the petitioners) earlier this year.
[Via Game Politics]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Juande @ Jul 28th 2009 2:06AM
Ok, I know this is super offtopic but can anyone tell me where can I find any support link, because Im trying to access my profile and it say that the password if wrong, but Im able to post message (duh) using the same password.
On topic: I dont approve that shit lol.
sonicspike41 @ Jul 28th 2009 3:41AM
Try sending an email to chris@joystiq.com
I wouldn't include your password for obvious reasons, but at the least he should have some experience and advice to offer you.
These two aren't specific to Joystiq, but it seems to be the main Weblogs Inc contact page:
http://www.weblogsinc.com/contact/comments/
http://www.weblogsinc.com/contact/problems/
Juande @ Jul 28th 2009 10:30AM
Thanks man.
squeevi @ Jul 28th 2009 11:21AM
I've been having this problem too for a while now! This will help me too!
Juande @ Jul 28th 2009 11:34AM
I already send an email, now to sit and wait, if I get any answer, Ill post it here.
ThatPCgameryouhate @ Jul 28th 2009 11:21PM
Also, try sending this to "Tip of the Week". Usually, this crazy hobo guy named Justin can assist you using his mind powers. If THAT doesn't work, someone should fire that guy.
Sly @ Jul 28th 2009 2:06AM
if i was rockstar, i would be paying off as many german people as possible to stop this from going through.
Premature ejaculation man @ Jul 28th 2009 3:08AM
Sadly, you're just a racoon =(
Rein @ Jul 28th 2009 4:01AM
He's not just any raccoon, he's Sly Cooper!
Sly @ Jul 28th 2009 1:17PM
DAMN STRAIGHT I AM!
wait, am i allowed to say that?
ArchiGamer [thephilosophyofgames.wordpress.com] @ Jul 28th 2009 2:06AM
Germans, actually doing something good!!
*tears up* ....I can't stop crying...I'm so proud....
devilsei @ Jul 28th 2009 2:59AM
Heh, thats rather subjective. As this:
""where the main part is to realistically play the killing of people or other cruel or un-human acts of violence against humans or manlike characters"
Could be rather vague, and could be spread to many genres, not just super-violent games. For all we know, WoW could be targeted through this, as people have killed and died over the game before, and not just in Asia.
Tuxy79 @ Jul 28th 2009 9:04AM
You're pathetic.
Drew @ Jul 28th 2009 12:02PM
Lies! First it will be their games. We won't care. Then, it will be Poland's games. "Not our business," we'll say. Then all all of Europe will be reduced to playing cricket! THE HUMANITY!!
Moffka @ Jul 28th 2009 2:07AM
Maybe that part about banning 26 years of its own history is a bit in bad taste.
Ballistic H @ Jul 28th 2009 8:01AM
Seriously, why the hell would you outlaw 26 years of history? They're facts and everybody should learn about them. Would the U.S. outlaw the American Civil War?
West @ Jul 28th 2009 11:19AM
It's not like China/Japan don't do this anyway. The Japanese think that whole WWII thing wasn't really a big deal or anything.
Strabo @ Jul 28th 2009 11:36AM
There isn't any outlawing of 26 years of history. First, 26 years? That would refer to the Berlin Wall, since that's the only period of time that would fit?
The whole Hitler stuff, which I assume was referenced here, was from 1934-1945, which would be 11 years, 12 if you count the one year he was legally Chancellor.
Secondly, the only thing forbidden is the display of symbols of prohibited organisations - which the NSDAP is, so every display of the symbols is forbidden if it isn't in a educational and/or not propaganda sense (ie nobody had to remove swastikas in Valkyrie in Germany).
The petition itself is a bit premature since neither the Bundestag nor any federal government organization plans to prohibit violent games just yet - only the equivalent of the governors assembly of the federal states, who don't have the authority to do such a thing. But rather safe than sorry with such stupid ideas I say.
Mr Khan @ Jul 28th 2009 1:52PM
Japanese politics is monopolized by old people, though. Something their culture tends to lean towards (with respect towards seniority and all), so the actions of the Japanese government do not really reflect the will of the populace.
Plus the fact that Japan virtually runs on a 1-party system. Due either to the ineptitude of the opposition or i don't know what, but it's nigh impossible to muster anything against the ruling party there, despite the fact that their politics are totally free and fair otherwise.
Moffka @ Jul 28th 2009 10:04PM
Um, yea. I was commenting on how that was a joke in bad taste on part of joystiq. Germany has no real ban on its history. Can't believe enough idiots gave the first guy to respond a plus to make him blue.
iluvmyzune @ Jul 28th 2009 2:09AM
germany grow a pair and understand you cant hide your peep's from the world.
Janichsan @ Jul 28th 2009 4:53AM
Do I really have to remind you of Jack Thompson and his friends?
Shagittarius @ Jul 28th 2009 2:15AM
It would be a shame to see Germany's peace loving public image get destroyed by imaginary violence and pixel directed hatred.
I mean what's the first think you think of when you hear "Germany"?
Sausage, Leaderhosen, beer? It would be terrible if video games were allowed to mar Germany's spotless human rights record by inducing a bunch of blood thirsty uncontrolable gamers to take to the streets randomly killing the inferior casual gamers who try to defend themselves but end up limpwristedly dropping their weapons while trying to waggle...
Maybe after they ban these games they can start rounding up all the deviants and sending them to re-education camps to defeat the horrible scourge of video games, and keep the youth doing healthy things like going to youth camps and exercising...
Anyways...Go Germany!
sonicspike41 @ Jul 28th 2009 3:45AM
I gotta say that that was really sneaky, clever, and pretty funny too!
I was gonna give you a one-up shroom, but then realize I could make more money if I sold it, since I hear shrooms are quite popular among certain crowds. Instead I just gave you a regular old +1.
The Dale @ Jul 28th 2009 4:15AM
I wonder what discussions here would be like if anytime there is news from the USA it would lead to hamburgers, crappy cars and Guantanamo.
No wait, I don't.
aristokrat @ Jul 28th 2009 6:06AM
In all fairness, the current state of affairs over there is due to the huge over-reaction they've had post-WWII, swinging from Nazi not to moderate but to the opposite end of the spectrum. Sadly, politics does not incentivize moderation but rather the extreme.
It's not like they don't know about what happened, but the fact that they are now trying to do everything exactly opposite to violence is pretty ridiculous.
Radical Dylan @ Jul 28th 2009 2:27AM
poor german kids...
No halo ODST for you...
Biophazer242 @ Jul 28th 2009 2:27AM
Taking people to court and imprisoning them for speaking about things you do not like is in bad taste. Its happening in Germany, following in France and Denmark and I am sure England will not be far behind. Australia is attempting to block internet access to sites they deem inappropriate.
America is so keen on being so European and sophisticated that we can not wait to just adopt this mindset. Ironically when people get in charge they seem to like this idea, but the true test of freedom is allowing people to speak how they please and have their freedom even if it involves Halo2.
So keep on voting America for the same people that have no respect for freedom and the right to choose.
Information should be free, and information is power. Naturally people want to take control of both information and power.
End of political rant
Iroquois @ Jul 28th 2009 2:38AM
Upvote
jimmy @ Jul 28th 2009 7:56AM
Why can't anyone understand the difference between UK and England. The UK has 4 constituent countries, of which England is only one. Not only is it wrong to use England in the way you have, it's quite a slap in the face to non-English Brits.
Pachter the Haiku Artist @ Jul 28th 2009 8:56AM
Since when is America keen on being European? Last time I checked we are described as a socialist hellhole, and that somewhat passes as an argument in a debate about Healthcare.
MarioSpitza @ Jul 28th 2009 10:19AM
@Pachter
I think he may be referring to Obama's campaign. During the election, one of the primary arguments in favor of Obama (that I heard anyway) is that he would reignite new relationships with Europe, and head towards a more intertwined American/European diplomacy.
Hell, the current health care issue is supposedly a point taken from Europe.
McRae the sad Tiger @ Jul 28th 2009 10:32AM
"Taking people to court and imprisoning them for speaking about things you do not like is in bad taste. Its happening in Germany, following in France and Denmark and I am sure England will not be far behind"
It is not happening in any of those countries. And if you believe it anyway, and that Democrats winning elections means America loosing it's freedom, you should go to sites like restate.com, but don't spread your lies about my Homeland among the mostly nice people around here.
p07h3ad @ Jul 28th 2009 11:05AM
@ Pachter
GTFO he's not spreading lies, you've been blinded by the lies
@Li3nw@r3 @ Jul 28th 2009 11:09AM
sorry I mean Mcrae the tiger or whatever they have the same damn avatar
sorry Pachter
Biophazer242 @ Jul 28th 2009 11:26AM
First to Jimmy- I said England.. not Ireland, not Northern Ireland and not Scotland. I do not really follow their internal politics enough to comment about them. I am aware that each country has its own independent governing body. I was merely speaking on that which I have first hand experience with. No offense was meant.
Mario and McRae-I am not just referring to Obama, I am referring to the typical American politician over the last 50 years in this country. Every year the differences blur more and more between our wonderful 2 parties. We are at each others throats over how we want to spend all the taxes we seem so eager to just give to these people in DC. Bush was a sorry excuse for a Republican, but considering how they have behaved the last 30 years, he is a typical Republican. As for Obama, I actually think he is a pretty interesting politician. Going off a cliff at 100mph, but interesting.
And McRae-Why don't you take a few minutes to read up on individuals like Gunter Deckert, imprisoned in Germany for leading the National Democratic Party of Germany and denying the gas chambers existed. Try accessing Neo-Nazi from Google.de or Google.fr Geert Wilders has been banned from the UK (that was for you jimmy!) since early 09 after he attempted to bring his film Fitna to show to some politicians.
They are all people or things that do not really fit with the ideals of alot of people who happen to be in a position to makes decisions. It is amazing how subjective the term 'tolerance' can be taken when you do not like what you see.
I love America, I love the fact really sad people that hate other people just own looks or how they think about things like god can have a voice, can start a blog, can even have a parade in the capital. Really, when you are walking down the street and you see 50 guys in WWII outfits in 2009 walking down the street yelling for a white america do you take it serious? Lock those 50 guys up and make them martyrs though, way to go.
And most of all I love my country because for the most part I can play all my games and do just about anything on the net. That is the one thing we all share on this blog I think, we love our games, let us keep them.
You can have my Fallout 3 when you pry it from my cold dead hands!
McRae the sad Tiger @ Jul 28th 2009 11:33AM
No it's all right, I am the same person, but I'd be interested in learning about factual evidence for those claims. Where in Germany, France or Denmark are you going to jail for "Speaking out" about things?
I can only think off that you mean that it's illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany. And if you call denying the brutal murder of millions of innocent people "speaking up", then you're one disturbed person.
Biophazer242 @ Jul 28th 2009 12:24PM
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/10/world/german-is-arrested-in-race-hate-charge.html?sec=&spon=&scp=1&sq=gunter%20deckert&st=cse
It took all of two minutes to find a NYTimes article from 1995 about a different arrest of Deckert that I was not aware of.
Look, I think its silly they deny it happened, but damn they do not deserve to be in prison for it. I was not there in WWII but I am pretty darn sure it was real man, but I know for sure these types of prosecutions happen. I do not defend what people say, they are the ones saying it, but I will and have, defended their right to say it. I defend your right to say I am disturbed for believing in that freedom.
You tell us then where you draw the line on freedom of speech. Which things are ok? Is Postal ok but Columbine RPG not? Personally I find Penn & Teller's Desert Bus pretty disturbing.
McRae the sad Tiger @ Jul 28th 2009 12:47PM
Geert Wilders and the likes are dar right wing extremists. And yet he has not been imprisoned for his views.
McRae the sad Tiger @ Jul 28th 2009 12:54PM
And if you read the article you linked, he has never been imprisoned. And what about France and Denmark?
If you want to look for political imprisonments, look to China, Korea and Russia. But please not at countries that are more democratic than the US.
Biophazer242 @ Jul 28th 2009 2:15PM
The article I linked was 14 years old. Guess I should have found something more recent, how about a letter from 1998 from a London based German rep about his imprisonment at the time.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Germany/docs/Deckert/DtBotsch101298.html
I suppose this argument could go on and on, kind of like Desert Bus really.
V-Mode @ Jul 28th 2009 2:33AM
One the one hand I think this is blatant and idiotic censorship from a country that’s trying to somehow make amends for its actions in World War 2 by overcompensating and banning everything under the sun that have even the slightest thing to do with violence, and it would be a travesty if it was allowed to pass.
On the other hand, I guess I would be glad if this passed because would finally shut up those ****ers at USK (Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle). You know, those asshats that love to refuse to rate games and as such effectively banning them in Germany, forcing developers (whom only want to release one PAL version of the game) to re-work stuff an release a watered down version of the game making the rest of us PAL gamers having to wait a couple of extra months just because those nimrods keep getting their panties in a bunch every time a new Call of Duty game is released.
Guess if this was implemented then developers would finally have the motivation to go “You know what, **** you assholes, I’m done trying to live up to your impossible standards” and just ignore the German market completely, which might just result in the rest of us getting the game early!
And this comment turned out way longer then expected
devilsei @ Jul 28th 2009 3:04AM
Don't forget all those WW2 shooters with Germans as "the big ol' evil nazis" in the list of "what to censor" and possibly related to the "omitted years" of their history where they say Poland invited them to dinner, and punch was served, and they danced.
God I hope this doesn't go through, this kind of crap has a way of making a row of dominos tumble over... and once those get going, the only way to stop it is to smash the middle and cut the wave off.
Pachter the Haiku Artist @ Jul 28th 2009 8:53AM
Your theory is laughable Devilsei, believe me that no one wants to change or censor German history. In fact, people wish it would be more of an topic at schools again, since today's young people don't learn as much about the evil of the Nazis as earlier generations. You find thousands among thousands of books and movies about the topic. Games are being banned for different reasons.
Iroquois @ Jul 28th 2009 2:37AM
If I remember correctly, I remember reading somewhere, like in of those weird/funny/strange facts books, the German video game laws require(d) blood to be green and any one that dies to return as a spirit, ghost, or rise to heaven. You can see the spirit part in The Settlers V, made by a German developer. Every time you kill and enemy soldier, a spirit rises up and goes to heaven.
Pachter the Haiku Artist @ Jul 28th 2009 8:42AM
That is not a law, but some publishers change their games (i.e. blood is green, and people hit in counter strike just duck down "wounded" instead of dying) to avoid age restrictions.
EMaster @ Jul 28th 2009 2:47AM
It's Reichstag... Bundestag was in the old capital of Bonn, now Berlin and the building they hold it in is called the Reichstag...
German Censorship is really getting out of hand. They should simply go back to beating their kids like the used to when I still lived there in the 80s.
shadaik @ Jul 28th 2009 5:25AM
It is indeed called Bundestag, the Rreichstag is merely the name of the building. So: The Bundestag (federal parliament) is located in the old Reichstag (imperial parliament) building which kept the old name.
The institution is called Bundestag, the building is called reichstag.
Aso, what 26 years have been banned? Last time I checked, the Nazis only ruled for 12 years (1933-1945), so what are you guys referring to? Besides it being bullshit, off course. Swastikas and nazis are banned for being anti-constitutional, but not any information about them.
Janichsan @ Jul 28th 2009 4:53AM
Nope. It's still the Bundestag. The "Reichstag" is just the building.
Pachter the Haiku Artist @ Jul 28th 2009 8:49AM
Anecdotal Evidence is never valid. It's sad that people used to beat their kids all over the world, although it is less common in civilized countries today. But to single out Germany is a gross misrepresentation.
Or to answer with anecdotal evidence myself: Neither me nor my sisters nor anyone I know have been beaten, and we all grew up around the 80ies.