Nintendo's Kaigler: Hardcore Wii game sales could go long tail ... maybe

by Ben Gilbert on Jul 29th 2009 2:15PM

If there's one thing that Nintendo VP of corporate affairs Denise Kaigler knows, it's first-party game sales. In a recent Wired interview, she happily expounded on the "long tail" that Nintendo first-party games tend to enjoy (we're looking at you, anything with Mario in the title), though couldn't say as much for third-party sales on Wii -- especially those of the "hardcore" variety.

When asked about slow sales of critically acclaimed titles MadWorld and The Conduit, Kaigler said that both games could follow the non-traditional Nintendo sales trend (the aforementioned "long tail"), but her comments seemed rooted in speculation. "You know, I don't know ... it could be titles have the same type of sales curve that a lot of Nintendo titles have -- titles [that] don't follow that traditional sales curve where they launch big and then that's it." She said that Nintendo remains "hopeful" that the titles will move more units in the future, calling them both "deep experiences," though we're not sure those kind words will help soothe Sega's assuredly dented coffers.

Source

Tags: business, denise-kaigler, interview, madworld, Nintendo, the-conduit, Wii, wired

Reader Comments (77)

Well the 1st party ones always tend to have the best shelf space and are always in ample supply, aren't they? So it's pretty much common sense? Always seems to be the case to me when I'm checking out games at a store, but I could off.

On another note; rubble ribble, Denise. Rubble, ribble.

Denise Kaigler popping up in the corner of your screen would be a fine addition as an insanity effect should they ever decide to make another Eternal Darkness...

I think it'd be funnier if she were saying "TOASTY!!"

I'll be happy when you let people sell their Wii and not trash their Virtual Console games, NINTENDO!!

Stop reading this comment and GO BUY MADWORLD (new plz!).

I bought MadWorld earlier today ^_^

I think this could be true, just due to the fact that 'hardcore' Wii games seem so rare compared to the other platforms. That way, while third person shooters and RPGs come and go on the PS360, titles like MadWorld will stay in memory for a while on the Wii.

Anyone else think we should rename 'hardcore' to 'games for gamers'?

You're probably right. Sega will have the adult genre on the wii locked up for a while considering opening sales, anyone looking to buy a mature title for the system will have to look their way.

"Anyone else think we should rename 'hardcore' to 'games for gamers'?"

We may as well, since I'm sure the porn industry will co-opt that name 'hardcore' as soon as they figure out a way to get licensed on these craaaaazy consoles.

I just think we should call casual players Passive players and hardcore, Excessive players. At least then, it makes sense.

I think we should call hardcore gamers "American Patriots" and casual gamers "Terrorists" since thats the level of pure unadulterated STUPID the argument has become

What about just "mainstream"? M-rated bloodfests are mainstream on the PS360; puzzle/adventure/party games are only for the hardcore. Conversely on the Wii, puzzle/adventure/party are the mainstream. Conduit/Madworld/HOTD are for the hardcore.

It's like, the definition of "hardcore" and "mainstream." Makes sense, no?

It's just that people who only want to play bloodfests want to think of themselves as "hardcore," as in "totally awesome." Including the journalists who insist on using these terms.

@Brian

"journalists." There, I fixed that for you.

"Casual gamers" should become "normal gamers" and "hardcore gamers" should become "I never left puberty and all the insecurity and pretentiousness that comes with it gamers".

BM-
Most would say that posting on a site for video games pretty much defines "Hardcore"

btw- I consider the tag dumb. I'm a gamer for life. Plain and simple.

tbh the conduits framerate and the bugs disappointed me. But other than that they did what they said they were going to do. Make a good wii fps.

That's the thing, right? Everyone talks about how the Conduit sold poorly because it's on the Wii; I'd also argue that the Conduit sold poorly because it isn't a good video game.

Wonky controls + Gamecube launch title graphics = Mediocre Towne, population: The Conduit.

Really, Jerk Face? Little out of character for you. GC launch title graphics? By all critical accounts it has rather good graphics comparatively for the system.

"Wonky controls" is the idiocy -- Conduit has the best controls of any console FPS, period.

Graphics are more up for debate -- technically speaking, they're doing a lot, but the art design is very bland (making the game seem unimpressive).

It seems The Conduit was more about the special effects than the graphics itself, and it shows. A little attention to detail will reveal both surprisingly neat special effects in odd corners and horribly low-poly models for inconsequential things

The community seems to be latching onto The Conduit quite well, though. The online game there is staying strong for now, in spite of the large-scale hacking (though it still hasn't become a problem for me personally yet. Maybe all the hackers stay in Free for All, which is why i never see them, always in Team Objective), and it seems to have rallied a bit of staying popularity that flash-in-the-pan titles like MadWorld didn't seem to accrue

So it may catch the long-tail

"Wonky controls"? Have you not even LOOKED under the "control options"?
You can't even say that waggle is used very much, because you can change the sensitivity!

LOL apparently Jerk Face has never played The Conduit.

I think the two aforementioned titles will see a slight sales increase when they drop to $20 (or less). I bought MadWorld when it first came out and I definitely don't regret it. But I think games in that category are going to find an audience with multi-console owners who, unfortunately, are spending their cash on their Xbox/PS3 games. Atleast, that's where I fall. I bought the Wii for the first-party stuff primarily, and that's what 95% of my Wii library is, and is why I haven't played a new title on my Wii since MadWorld.

MadWorld is already $20 at Amazon and Gamestop; like to see what this does to sales for that title, anyway.

And the Conduit was "critically acclaimed"? That wasn't the impression I got.

I just don't think traditional games will ever sell too well on the Wii since the controls don't map well to the Wii remote. Nintendo should be happy to be dominating this new market that they've created and the hardcore should be happy that they can still buy a 360 or a PS3.

The controls map fine over to the Wiimote and Nunchuk, especially for FPS (where they simply surpass dual analogue. Period.). But even for more traditional fare, the Wiimote and Nunchuk can act just as well as a pad, save for ergonomical concerns.

The button layout may be a bit problematic, but if you absolutely need 16 buttons or something like that, you're designing your game wrong.

That is simply your opinion Khan. Period.

I personally hate turning the Wii remote and using it like a 2-button pad. Admittedly, the Gamecube or Classic controller is always an option, but it seems to me like EVERY Wii game is designed to use motion controls; I don't know of any Wii games that require one of these alternate controllers, and I suspect Nintendo would frown upon or downright disallow it. As long as traditional games will be forced to incorporate motion controls or work with the remote/nunchuk you'll have most hardcore games either watered-down to fit into this control scheme or avoid the platform altogether.

In this case, there's one where this is reality, and not opinion. Responsiveness is up, precision is up, and its far more customizable.

That right there is kind of the indicator that these games aren't going to go the route Nintendo's do. Even if they manage to sell for a long time, the prices have already dropped, while Mario Kart on Wii (and DS, for that matter) still cost as much as they did at launch.

I think things in the whole "hardcore" market for the wii looks good its just that if the majority of "hardcore" owners don't own other systems things look good, now if you own more than just the wii your gonna find something on a other system you want more, but if you really look into what's coming out for the wii your gonna be as happy and broke as everyone else.

I figured Mad World didn't sell well because it's not a good game. I thought it was terrible.

Its not. I enjoyed it as much as I do devil may cry. Where it lacks in depth, it makes up with humor and absurdness

I know this may be biased, but just because you didn't like it doesn't mean everyone else has to.

While I wouldnt say Madworld sucked, I definately didn't think it was anywhere near as good as reviewers and others do. The create your own kill system fealt like a gimmick after about a half hour, which made for some very slow combat. Of course, you could just go to town with the chainsaw ... but that leads to some low scores, and levels taking longer with mindless grinding. I pre-ordered the game and was pretty dissapointed, so I unloaded it on goozex for 1000 points (50$) so I didn't lose any money.

It would be fine for a 10-15$ buy for me, but it's length, and drawn out combat killed it a bit for me. The bosses were awesome tho'.

I question whether how good a game is has much to do with its initial sales (long term, obviously yes). But Madworld was a *short* game, with a super-niche style, and too bloody to market to a mainstream audience effectively. That's why it didn't sell well.

I really enjoyed it but I have to admit, as Clover Fanboy #1 around here (that's right, Roto, I claimed that tile FIRST!), MadWorld wasn't as good as Okami, Viewtiful Joe 1+2 and especially the sublimely perfect God Hand.

If we consider Platinum to just be Clover with a different name essentially, I would rank MadWorld at the bottom of the list, personally.
1) God Hand
2) Okami
3) Viewtiful Joe
4) MadWorld

And to be perfectly honest, as much as I hate to admit it, I have a feeling I'm going to slot Bayonetta at #5...mostly since I don't particularly like DMC games...and Bayonetta kinda seems like Devil May Cry with boobies.
Still buying it Day 1, though. Hell, I might even import it.

Madworld isn't the masterpiece I was expecting. It's a really cool and original game, but it ain't perfect. I'm sick of feeling guilty for not buying every worthy third party title. I am only one man and I spend too much on gaming as is, plus I have many games I still have to finish. The guilt ends today. If a game is "must-own" I will hear about it here, otherwise I am waiting for the bargain bin.

I really like the cut of your jib, and feel exactly the same way. I've had "haven't bought "The Conduit" or "MadWorld" yet"-guilt since they came out, and I'm sick and tired of it, too.

It's almost like I've made it my fault that they weren't universally reviewed as "absolutely, positively, must-have" games (in which case I'd've bought both of them on release). Silly.

Meanwhile, I've got at least 6-7 games I haven't finished yet, and I just bought WSR and Tiger Woods 10.

So yes, I'm waiting until I see them in the bargain bin, too.

Thanks for the post . . . you summed up my feelings before I knew I had them.

What I like about most 'hardcore' games on the Wii, they tend to be on different levels. Just look at MadWorld, No More Heroes, and HotD: Overkill, these games are vastly different than what I come to see on either the 360 or PS3. If games on the Wii keep this type of eccentric style, I'll happily buy ever game out there.

You see, that's just it. These games are all obscure. People try to make out how they are simply unable to sell on the Wii, yet it's not that at all, it's simply that while these games might have sold a bit more on the PS360, they probably wouldn't have sold a great deal more. I mean NInja Gaiden II hasn't even sold a million yet for christ sakes!

And the art style in MadWorld actually put off a great deal of people, I can't see it being much different on the other consoles.

The fact remains, that if RE5 were to be ported to the Wii on the RE4 engine, it would sell a mill easy, much like RE4 did on the Wii. Big names and high production values get a million sales, hell sometimes even just big names, look at RE: UC (that piece of shit game). Capcom have no excuse at all to try and give out rail shooters like a traditional RE game wouldn't sell, and that goes for a lot of other big companies. They can sell, it just depends on a number of factors.

Dear lord her eyes scare me. Stop being happy! Seriously, stop buy Mario titles everyone.. I want to look at a normal human face.

yeah, no one in their right mind would dare smile when they're having their picture taken.

BURN THE WITCH

They didn't sell well for a variety of reasons, biggest of course being there's not much of a hardcore market on wii to begin with. But you expect an awful shooter that would get 40s-60s on 360/ps3 and a black & white brawler from a company who puts nothing but commercial flops out to sell well?

Someone's going to have to learn that just because you have 50 million Wii's out there doesn't mean you're going to sell a lot, otherwise we're gonna keep going through this with every hardcore wii game that comes out.

The publishers generally have a good eye for what titles should sell. I don't think anyone went into MadWorld talking about a blockbuster.

It's just something the hysterical fanboys (and slightly less hysterical gaming media), like to propagate. "Look at these hardcore Wii games bomb! Learn your lesson, stupid publishers!"

TMac, lord knows your comments often frustrate me, but you're absolutely right. Madworld, HOTD, and No More Heroes were niche games with unique styles that were never going to find a broad audience. Conduit's the kind of game that might -- and it sold better than the others -- but it looked too generic/lacked the hook needed to really break out.

Again, I wait for a MAJOR studio to put SERIOUS effort behind a MAINSTREAM mature Wii title to judge how the audience will react, sales-wise. Dead Space will be a better test (though it's still on-rails, which will hurt). I'm dying to find out what Bethesda's working on.

I think the sales of Monster Hunter on the Wii will be the best indicator we have if a high budget, high quality, hardcore 3rd party exclusive can sell well on the system. If that game bombs we have an idea that the quality and mass appeal of a 3rd party exclusive game aren't as important as they are on the PS360.

Basically, Monster Hunter is going to be the hardcore litmus test for the wii.

That's only a fair comparison for 1 territory though. If it "bombs" (as much as a MH game can bomb in Japan) there then we'll have something to talk about. We already know it's going to bomb in America

"If that game bombs we have an idea that the quality and mass appeal of a 3rd party exclusive game aren't as important as they are on the PS360."

You've said this before, but you ignore the fact that this series has NEVER been popular outside of Japan. The game has a huge handicap in the west.
You could just as well argue that Monster Hunter has never broken a million in console sales yet, too.

Another thing that people don't seem to get is that by and large, consumers don't think in terms of "first party" and "third party". Only nerds like us who post on blogs all day do. People don't see a game published by Nintendo and say, "Oh, that's Nintendo". Ditto for Capcom, EA or whoever.
Heck, Nintendo's logo is on EVERY game box. If consumers are as dumb as people 'round these parts claim they are, they should think that *EVERY* game is published by Nintendo!

What sells is that magical mix of brand name with a heavy dash of marketing/promotion/hype. Budget and quality don't really factor into the equation, for better or worse.

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Nintendo's Kaigler: Hardcore Wii game sales could go long tail ... maybe

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