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Reader Comments (195)

Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:32PM (Unverified) said

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One sitting?

I've never gotten as much replay value out of a 4-episode fps as I did from this game. Have played through each at least 10 times in co-op alone, not to mention tons of time in versus mode.

Only game I've bought on PC and 360. I can only guess that someone who didn't get their money's worth out of this has no friends online to play the game with. Any review would have pretty much summed up that the game is 1/10th as much fun with 3 bots.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:34PM (Unverified) said

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You'll be waiting till you look like your avatar.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:17PM ChiTownRuler23 said

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I finished L4D in one sitting and i played on all the maps with my friends a week later, i dont really like VS mode, survival mode was ok, and now i rarely play it unless i need my zombie fix now and then, and if it doesn't become free ill wait till its on reduceed price for deal of the week.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:20PM ChiTownRuler23 said

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reduced**
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:55PM (Unverified) said

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Can I please have my 360 TF2 DLC now?
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:54PM Softserve said

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Annoying. I'm still trying to figure out why identical PC/360 games are still often $20 more on the 360. The "cost of development" doesn't seem to cut it anymore. Is $20 really necessary for the added licensing costs?

Then you pay for a map pack that's free elsewhere, which I thought was a violation of MS's policy?

Meh.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:00PM SF Legend said

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I think it's partly because PC games have to contend with increased piracy, so need to be cheaper to sell.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:07PM jynxycat said

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LOL... PC games have ALWAYS been $50. It's console games that decided it was more expensive to make (lol?) 360/ps3 games. People started to buy games at $60, so the price stayed.

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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:16PM Softserve said

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Well that's my point, though. Why is the same game $60 still? I mean, seriously, Ghostbusters was $30 to $40 on PC week one. $60 on 360. PC games are often not $50 at all now.

As these games get more and more identical, I don't get how they can still try to justify it.

The piracy thing is a good point, though.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:25PM RKN said

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Most new PC games are $50 whereas $60 on 360/PS3. Ghostbusters was $30 on PC because it lacks multiplayer altogether unlike the console versions.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:47PM SSUK said

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It's usually licensing. Developers have to pay console manufacturers for the privilege of developing on that platform. So they recoup the cost by jacking up the price for consumers.

Unless you're Activision. They you just charge what the hell you like.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:29PM (Unverified) said

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it's simple.. consoles fixed prices at $60, and consumers ate it. they realized you're willing to spend that much. Not so much on PC, they know $50 is as high as we're willing to go.

easy solution is not to buy it if it costs too much, but that's not going to happen is it? And thats why console games will end up costing $70 while PC games are still $50 (don't believe me, look at MWF2 news from a few days back, they're testing the new pricepoint out in europe with COD6). the console market is gullible, sad to say. just look at the wii, selling like hotcakes even though it has the worst games on any system (per capita). i have no sympathy for blind consumerism
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:55PM whatthegeek said

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Didn't Larry Hyrb (Major Nelson) make a big stink back in April of '07 about how no content that is free on another platform will be paid dlc on the 360?
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:24PM chrisgrant said

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can you find me a source on that?
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:27PM (Unverified) said

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Larry is full of shit, he said that the silverlight video ads on my dashboard would be relevant and add to the experience. Instead I get commercials for phone companies.

Seriously, Major Nelson is nothing but a shitty dancing monkey that contradicts himself all over the damn place.

Fuck paying for this DLC, I'll wait for L4D2.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:41PM Zertoss said

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My Google-fu has failed me. I can't find anything like this.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:46PM Jack Tretton said

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"Major Nelson is nothing but a shitty dancing monkey..."

Yep. Despite seeming more in touch with gamers than others of his ilk, he's a company man through and through.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:47PM mathemagical said

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@ Mike

I found an old joystiq post (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/29/mass-effect-dlc-now-on-pc-for-free/comments/13426160/) where you mentioned the same thing. Then you linked this podcast:

http://majornelson.com/archive/2006/11/12/show-201-the-one-about-marketplace.aspx

I haven't listened to it, so someone else can dig it out. If it's there.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:56PM whatthegeek said

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I'm listening to it right now - if I'm not mistaken, it was during the Chip Lang interview at the end.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:00PM FraGNeM said

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They hardly consider 360 and PC competing platforms.

I'm sure he meant that if the PS3 gets something for free, there will not be a charge on the 360 marketplace.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:02PM whatthegeek said

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at 1:24:30 chip states that EA won't do that - I could swear Hyrb confirmed that MS wouldn't do it either, though I could be wrong. Still listening. I'll keep you posted.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:17PM whatthegeek said

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Still listening, no MN quote yet, but the fact that Chip from EA stated that EA won't sell content freely available on other platforms should apply to L4D - EA publishes the 360 version if I'm not mistaken
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:19PM newmania said

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I remember him making a big stink about Epic wanting to release Gears of War maps for free. He said they should show MS gratitude after they doubled the RAM on the system at Epic's request.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:24PM aristokrat said

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It's in the last part of the podcast in the interview with Chip from EA. Nelson asks Chip how he justifies having all the cars available in NFS for PS2 but having to pay for them on the 360, or having to pay for cheat codes to unlock everything while the cheats work for free on non-marketplace enabled consoles. The discussion is more about stuff included with the original game than it is about cross-platform DLC.

Granted, I didn't listen all that closely, but he doesn't seem to make a big stink about it, nor does it directly address the issue at hand. Still, the concept remains the same, and Nelson does seem to push for an explanation why the 360 gets less stuff. Might be worth following up on, if you're willing to listen more closely to the whole thing.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:47PM whatthegeek said

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I apologize - at no point in that show does MN outright state that MS is against selling content that's free elsewhere. Chip Lang from EA does state that EA is against it, which is relevant because EA publishes L4D on the 360. It's also worth noting that the overall tone of the show, and preceding blog posts on majornelson.com is that such tactics would be unacceptable on the marketplace.... .it's a shame you can't quote tone.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:55PM Uncle Jesse said

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Can't wait to get this! I still play this with my buddies 3 times a week. Pumped!

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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:55PM Peter Moore said

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I hate $7 fees...
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:46PM 343 Guilty Fart said

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I'm glad they're releasing this, but I'd rather it was a simple 400 points (or free of course).
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:23PM darkinchworm said

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Is that why you left Microsoft?
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:24PM Peter Moore said

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No, I left because they didn't have vests.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:56PM Obienator said

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Francis LOVES this!

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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:57PM (Unverified) said

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Oh fuck you Valve. I already paid 10 dollars more than PC gamers to get this game, I already don't have access to the mapmaking tools, and now your making me pay for this new map when PC gamers get it free. You already fucked me over and forced me to buy TF2 on the PC even though I already paid 60 dollars to have it on the 360, and now your going to go and pull this shit. Thanks.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:01PM (Unverified) said

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You do realize that Microsoft makes them charge for DLC right?
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:03PM Ravnos said

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Yeah, this basically guarantees that I won't be buying any more Valve games on 360, and since I don't play PC games, that means I won't be buying them at all. Way to stick it to loyal customers Valve. A+ good job.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:03PM Durr Durrington said

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You can thank Microsoft for having to pay for the DLC, not Valve. Valve has commented in the past that they want to give the updates out for free in their games because it works with their business strategy. However, it is up to Sony and Microsoft whether that actually happens or not and Microsoft apparently didn't share the same philosophy.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:04PM Dr Stabbingworth said

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1. You're blaming the wrong people
2. Valve didn't force you to buy anything
3. You didn't pay $60 for TF2

When does school start up again? The quality of commenting here has gone way down recently.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:07PM Jerk Face said

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@ Dr Stabbingworth

Seriously, the kids need to get out of here already. It's been like a retard rodeo all summer.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:08PM (Unverified) said

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And I ask, how exactly would you use Hammer on a xbox 360?

And the pricing is pretty much determined by Microsoft, don't blame Valve.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:12PM MLS said

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I'd like to see this kid flip out when he finds his fast food meal unsatisfactory. I'm no aristocrat, but paying 7 bucks for a game I play the crap out of doesn't feel like "getting fucked".
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:17PM Victoryismine52 said

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+1 DoctorStabinworth
Everyones Logical copacity has decreased around here and I think it had started effecting me too. I didn't even link this to all the kids being out of school. WOW something good IS comming from the public school system.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:27PM Ravnos said

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Yeah, blame Microsoft for this. Ignore all the other free DLC on Live, this is all Microsoft. Valve has a part in this, you're lying to yourself if you think otherwise.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:33PM AsherR said

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If you have a PC good enough to play TF2, you should have just gotten it for PC instead of 360. :D

And as someone pointed out, you didn't buy TF2 for $60. Even if that was all you played from Orange Box, you got a bunch of other stuff. Also, TF2 is sold seperately on the PC and is often sold on sale for $10.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:37PM Clatu6 said

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EA published the game on 360. Blame EA for the cost, not MS. MS does not force game makers to charge for content. There are many examples of free content on Live for games, Burnout Paradise is the biggest one.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:37PM Durr Durrington said

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@ Ravnos

While I don't know which games have free DLC on the 360, I'm guessing that some of it could be because of Sony. What I mean by that is that Microsoft can't really charge for DLC if it is available to PS3 users for no charge. For example, someone mentioned that Burnout Paradise has free DLC but that makes sense since it is free on the PS3. If Microsoft tried to charge for the same content that Sony was giving for free to the PS3 users, the 360 owners would throw a fit. If someone has both a 360 and a PS3 and they see that DLC is free on the PS3 and $5-10 on the 360, they are going to buy their multi-platform games for the PS3.

Left 4 Dead is a little different since most people don't see PC's as being direct competition to the 360 (or the PS3) the way that the PS3 (or 360, respectively) is viewed. Having the same content for free for PC users doesn't hold the same stigma that it would if you were talking about PS3 users getting the DLC for free.

Yes, it is unfair but people could change all of this if they refused to buy the DLC on the 360. Just show Microsoft that you aren't going to be nickel and dimed, and they won't continue this business practice.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 2:40PM Vcize said

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Microsoft does not, and CAN NOT force them to charge for DLC.

There is free DLC everywhere. This whole stink came about because people got confused of the Gears of War 1 DLC. Microsoft was the publisher of that game, and forced them to charge for that DLC as the PUBLISHER (same as any other publisher could do), not as the owner of xbox live.

And MS has said time and time again, that even as a publisher they wouldn't charge for anything that is free on another platform.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 3:32PM aristokrat said

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MLS: $7 for a new episode, means the original campaign was worth $28, maybe multiplayer worth another $7, and maybe a generous extra $7 for development overall (even though they already had the engine ready to go). Therefore we're at $42, not $60. This is why people are mad. $60 for a thin game that was cheaper on PC, then asking for more money for something that is free on PC, is a ripoff. If they really wanted to make it free, they could. Bioshock added 100 gamerpoints with Brass Balls for free, so I don't see why Valve couldn't just make this a title update. The only reason it's free on PC is because people will download it for free through other means otherwise, and Valve doesn't want to give people too much incentive to hack steam.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 4:55PM Vcize said

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So aristokrat, basically what you're saying is that if you assign completely arbitrary, made up numbers to things that can't really be quantified, then completely neglect the entire notion of, you know, profit (the whole reason they're doing this) for both the developer, and the distributor (valve sells games for less than $60 to stores so that stores can still sell them at $60 and make a profit themselves), then it wasn't worth the money.

Because that makes total sense...
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 4:56PM Vcize said

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...in crazyland.
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 1:15PM Monotonousblob said

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@Jon2309:

Then why was Versus Mode free for 360 owners? That was much more important DLC as it was closer to the games release. The depressing thing is that even though L4D was a good game, Valve has consistently dropped the ball when it comes to Xbox support and we're now finally seeing kinks in Valve seemingly indestructible armor. No matter how replayable, 4 maps for $60 is beyond a rip-off, it's a joke when compared to other games that included a real, 10+ hour story mode as well with higher costs and better graphics, See Team Fortress 2 as another example of them dropping the ball when it comes to 360 support. Every other company seems to be able to fix bugs and have update on at least a monthly basis but them. It's sad because Valve is my favorite PC developer.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 1:58PM The Pie Pieper said

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There you go, all you cry babies just got your bottle.
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