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Reader Comments (25)

Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:02PM Arsenic13 said

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Steam knows Digital Distribution. MS is killing it. Over priced games for $20 plus what they are at stores. Physical media is just better. Disk, no DRM, Manual, ext.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:22PM (Unverified) said

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"Steam knows Digital Distribution"

Fallout 3

$50 on steam
$28 used Gamestop
$40.49 new on Amazon, $27 used


I'm not saying Games on Demand is any better pricing wise, but Steam isn't exactly beating retail price either.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:22PM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said

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Unless Digital is at least $20 less than a physical disk costing system I won't purchase it since I can't get anything back.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:24PM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said

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Darn it I hit enter too soon. What I wanted to say was that digital needs to be cheap enough to offset the loss I take when purchasing a physical disk. I can make up for that loss buy trading in which digital doesn't let me do.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:46PM Ordeith said

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what? XBLA works very much like steam. How is that killing it?
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 9:42PM (Unverified) said

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@roger

Although they are saving money by not purchasing a physical product, additional money must go towards the fees for bandwidth and servers to carry all these files, which can add up quickly. So while one expense is removed, another is added. Not to mention retailers likely have contracts with distributors to not undercut them through digital sales.

Sadly it's turned the opposite, where for the US and Europe, retail is now cheaper than digital distribution for most people.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2009 7:47AM chipimix said

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Stean normal prices SUCK. Steam weekend deals on the other hand offer great deals :)
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:28PM (Unverified) said

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This is something my friends and I have discussed lately. Regardless of the "value" of downloading a game or expansion vs. the actual physical copy, the main problem is that we feel we have no rights. I am less concerned about being able to "return" a downloaded game or expansion than having it pulled from me at some point in the future. I recall recently when Amazon pulled (and refunded) Orwell books from Kindle and E-Reader devices. The refund is great, but if I had been halfway through 1984, I would have been fairly upset about not getting to find out what two plus two equals. I don't want to find out that 10 years from now, the copy of Oblivion I downloaded from 360's "Games on Demand" service was more of a long-term rental than a purchase because the license expired for whatever reason.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:36PM Neil O said

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I would probably pay 10$ more for digital, assuming we are talking about things likes steam, where I can install it on as many computers as I want, recover it in case of accident (or intentional) deletion, and play it wherever.

That is much more valuable than a disk, which can be lost or damaged, and may or may not have install limits or licenses that are nearly non-transferable in case of drive failure.

When you cycle through computers pretty quickly, or use several computers regularly, this is a lot more hassle then simply telling steam to go re-download this and that game.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 9:02PM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said

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Then you would be one of the few suckers to do so because the great majority feel digital should cost less since you can't sell it back.
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Posted: Aug 14th 2009 2:23AM jupigare said

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@roger:

I think Pyronell's point is that the $10 is worth it because he gets to redownload the game on as many computers as he likes, as many times as he likes (i.e., uninstalling and reinstalling it).

To me, I don't have a problem with not being able to sell my games back, since I rarely do that with physical copies anyway. But I install games on so many computers (or change hardware or operating systems) that having my games tied to Steam is really convenient for me. I don't have to be afraid of a physical disk getting lost or breaking, since the data is on my computers and on Steam's servers.

To me (and to many others), that's worth the extra money. My only problem is not being able to transfer game licenses over to other players. I wanted to take advantage of Steam's recent indie games weekend deal but didn't because I already own some of the games on the list and wouldn't be able to transfer those games to my friends. I would have paid twice (albeit at an amazingly low price) for games I only own one license of (albeit one I can install on multiple computers).
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 8:56PM RunnyRiver said

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Amazon and Ebay have not replaced brick and mortar. Digital distribution will not replace retail.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 9:07PM PN04 said

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Digital Distribution will destroy gaming. From the point of sale all the way to the collector market you cant say you own a title because at any point someone can deny you the use of your product just because you dont ever physically HAVE it. HARDDRIVES DONT LAST FOREVER, Physical media might not be immortal either, but at least it lasts for as long as you take care of it, as opposed to a harddrive that craps itself and dies based on the random alignment of the planets. Gamers like to OWN what they buy they like the ability to lend it to frends or get rid of it when they're tired of it. with DD all that dies and you face either getting stuck with a clunker forever (or as long as the device that contains it survives) or you risk being deprived of your content due to some silly arbitrary rule that puts limits on what you can do and when you can do it, and in some cases maybe even how often.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 11:51PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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Thats why there is a profile with purchases attached to it. If you have a HDD failure you can re-download all of your purchases. I know what you are getting at, though - what happen 15-20 years down the line when these systems are no longer in place?
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 9:14PM vidguy said

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I wrote a fifteen page legal memo on this exact topic a month ago. The conclusion: you can sell the media containing the digital download without legal problems. So, you could sell a harddrive with downloads already on it. Currently, there is no legal way to transfer a download from one media to another because it creates, at minimum, a temporary duplicate copy of the material, which violates copyright law.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 9:39PM (Unverified) said

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Would you happen to have this posted online somewhere? I am fairly interested in the legalities of digital distribution and thoughts from others, as I am often debating this topic in various forums. If you are willing to share, that would be excellent, but I can also understand if you don't.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 10:32PM vidguy said

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Unfortunately, I wrote it as part of a research assistant position for a law professor for an ongoing project, so I don't think I can share it right now.

I can post my Rules section though - it might not be much help but kind of lays out the first sale doctrine:

A copyright holder has the exclusive right to “distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending.” 17 U.S.C. § 106(3). A party that causes actual dissemination of an identifiable copy or phonorecord without the copyright holder’s consent violates the distribution right. Atl. Recording Corp. v. Howell, 554 F. Supp. 2d 976, 983 (D. Ariz. 2008); UMG Recordings, Inc. v. Hummer Winblad Venture Partners, 377 F. Supp. 2d 796, 802 (N.D. Cal 2005)(listing index of available files does not actually disseminate copies of the files). An electronic file transfer constitues a distribution under the statute. London-Sire Records, Inc. v. Doe 1, 542 F. Supp. 2d 153, 173-74 (D. Mass. 2008).

The first sale doctrine acts as a limitation on the distribution right by allowing free alientation of copies lawfully made or acquired by the seller. 17 U.S.C. § 109(a); Gener-Villar v. Adcom Group, Inc., 530 F. Supp. 2d 392, 404 (D.P.R. 2007); Hill Design, Inc. v. Hodgdon, No. 03-074-M, 2003 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 12584, at *10 (D.N.H. July 9, 2003). The doctrine does not strictly require a “sale” but rather applies whenever the copyright owner has transferred to another party the material ownership of a particular copy embodying a copyrighted work. Gener-Villar, 530 F. Supp. 2d at 405; Too, Inc. v. Kohl’s Dep’t Stores, Inc., No. 2:01-CV-1256, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 21415, at *7 (S.D. Ohio Sept. 4, 2002). The secondary party must obtain actual legal ownership of the copy, not mere possession. 17 U.S.C. § 109(d); Too, Inc., 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 21415, at *11. The owner of the copy may then distribute only that particular copy and is not permitted to reproduce the copy. Gener-Villar, 530 F. Supp. 2d at 404.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 11:17PM (Unverified) said

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That is completely understandable about not being able to release it, I do thank you though for the rest of the information. Off to do some research :)
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 11:52PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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pussy

j/k
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 9:35PM (Unverified) said

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The author mentions the returning of games and transferring licenses. Impulse by Stardock is already looking to make this happen. Currently you can return games that simply do not work on a PC, which I imagine they can easily monitor by how many times it has been accessed. With Game Object Obfuscation (GOO), their new system, they are seeking publisher support to allow game resale. In return, publishers would receive a cut of the money, returning some of the profit to them.

Steam, while a good service, is falling behind in innovation, and Impulse is picking up the slack. Now it is just a matter if more publishers can hop on board with the system and make it happen. If so, this will be excellent news for PC Gaming and digital distribution.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 10:23PM crazeeseal said

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I might have to look into impulse. The main reason I got out of PC gaming is because I got tired of buying games that didn't work on my PC and spending hours on some random fourm trying to figure out why my video card driver hates the latest Warcraft expansion. If I could return a game that didn't work that would make the whole process much less stressful.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 11:22PM (Unverified) said

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Here is a link to their return policy for a little more information regarding it. I believe I was somewhat mistaken though, as I get the impression this is purely for Stardock published titles, but I am not sure. Either way, here is the return policy on the Impulse page.

http://impulsedriven.com/support/return_policy.aspx
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 10:11PM crazeeseal said

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By far the best LGJ I have ever read, nice work.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 10:35PM (Unverified) said

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Concerning the reselling of games.

Because there is no physical object with regards to digital distribution, there is no need to offer discounts for the inferior condition of a used product (real or perceived) as you would or should with physical copies of games. As a result, you only need to sell your "used" games for conceivably cents less than purchasing a new licence. You are receiving exactly the same product either way. It therefore makes far more sense to only sell new licences as the seller gets the entire sale price as opposed to a small transaction fee.
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Posted: Aug 13th 2009 11:02PM vidguy said

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Well done - this is the exact argument made by Judge Richard Posner in his book, "The Economic Structure of Intellectual Property Law." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Posner

The rationale behind the first sale doctrine is that the physical used copy is not a complete substitute for the new copy, so it doesn't significantly harm the copyright holders' economic market. Not so with digital copies, as you have indicated.
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